Do we extend Ole's contract?

So since Ole took over Liverpool have won EPL/CL, Chelsea a CL, City EPL &Carling, Arsenal an a FA cup, Leicester a FA cup. UTD nothing

Not even a carling cup
And we should extend Ole ?? Mediocrity at its finest.
 
Water Melon said:
Look at what Tuchel is doing at Chelsea having been there just for 4 months and compare to Ole. Extending his contract now does not make any sense whatsoever. However, knowing Woody...
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Agreed with the bold part but it’s not like Ole can be sacked after coming second. A three-year contract is too much though IMO
 
The amount of excuses I see lined up for Oles limitations as a manager. At the end of the day he isn't winning anything over managers like Pep, Tuchel, Klopp and he certainly doesn't have the tactical nouse to even win the Fa Cup or League Cup.

Look at Tuchel in six months he turned Chelsea who like us was a good team with good players held back by a limited manager. Difference is their club could see Lampard was nothing special.
 
Another trophyless season with a billion pound squad and we are talking about extending his contract. Couldn't make it up
 
Just depressing we are nowhere a game like today. Had the same feeling last year but it's two English teams this year.

I wonder how long it'll take for our clown board and some on this forum to see the light.
 
Water Melon said:
Look at what Tuchel is doing at Chelsea having been there just for 4 months and compare to Ole. Extending his contract now does not make any sense whatsoever. However, knowing Woody...
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It does make sense, having a manager operating within his last year is not great. It creates a lot of uncertainty and distracts from the task at hand, which is having a good season. Every narrative becomes one of debating the manager's role beyond the current season, and inevitably if the club decide he is not the man then they have to work to replace him during the season itself which is never a very classy or desirable situation.

Unless it is very much sold as a temporary or caretaker position to begin with then generally there is a pretty good reason for having a minimum of a 2 year contract. I would agree that 3 years seems a little premature as this next season feels very key, but I think we have to nail our colours to the mast to some extent.

If they think Ole has done a good job a couple years extension seems reasonable, if not they should have already lined up a replacement for the current season which shows no signs of happening, so we therefore have to assume the board's position is the former. Then you have to extend the manager in my opinion, not just put him on trial for a season.
 
Giving him a three year contract after losing the 2nd tier European cup to a lesser team would look incredibly silly now
 
Somebody just text me saying the Chelsea formula of changing the manager regularly and winning regularly works again. Meanwhile Ole will get another 3 years probably for winning feck all. Makes you think.
 
The United said:
Ole should have another year with some backing. He is still learning at this level and the club.

If we are still losing most of the time when it matters like this season while having a couple of good signings, we should be finding someone else at the end of next season.

I would like the club to address the issue in positions such as CB, RW and CM this summer and see how we do.
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You do realise that ole is nearly 50, when is this nonsense of still "learning" going to end? What we have seen the past 2.5 years is what we will get next season.
 
edgecutter said:
You do realise that ole is nearly 50, when is this nonsense of still "learning" going to end. What we have seen the past 2.5 years is what we will get next season.
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Also we shouldnt have a manager learning at supposedly 'the biggest club in the world' as they like to churn out.
 
No. Let him play out next season & see if there’s any improvement with the side and if we are actually challenging for the bigger trophies. He has to earn an extension, especially after how our season ended in the PL & EL.
 
edgecutter said:
You do realise that ole is nearly 50, when is this nonsense of still "learning" going to end. What we have seen the past 2.5 years is what we will get next season.
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I said at this club and at this level. And, I also said learning.

Basically, it means if he can improve just like players do. He obviously has been getting better than the first 2 seasons. Does not mean he will pass it.

It is why I want to give him another season with good signings. Let's face it. Our bigger issue at the moment is not being able to fill obvious gapping holes in the squad.

You can have so called 'good manager' and the issue of not being able to compete against the likes of City in the league will be there.
 
The United said:
I said at this club and at this level. And, I also said learning.

Basically, it means if he can improve just like players do. He obviously has been getting better than the first 2 seasons. Does not mean he will pass it.

It is why I want to give him another season with good signings. Let's face it. Our bigger issue at the moment is not being able to fill obvious gapping holes in the squad.

You can have so called 'good manager' and the issue of not being able to compete against the likes of City in the league will be there.
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I'm in your camp. Another season and big spending but no contract extension
 
Abraxas said:
It does make sense, having a manager operating within his last year is not great. It creates a lot of uncertainty and distracts from the task at hand, which is having a good season. Every narrative becomes one of debating the manager's role beyond the current season, and inevitably if the club decide he is not the man then they have to work to replace him during the season itself which is never a very classy or desirable situation.

Unless it is very much sold as a temporary or caretaker position to begin with then generally there is a pretty good reason for having a minimum of a 2 year contract. I would agree that 3 years seems a little premature as this next season feels very key, but I think we have to nail our colours to the mast to some extent.
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Players and managers can leave their teams each and every year. And it is not like Ole is a fantastic pull for players. He is a nobody in top managers world and failed to win even a single cup while managing United. He is clearly below Pep, Klopp and Tuchel in the prem alone. If anything, if I were an elite footballer, I'd rather play under Ole for a season to start with than for three. If he finally wins something, he will have his contract extended. So far he has been unsuccessful.
 
Why do we simply let him off the hook because “yung nd learnin”?

Last I checked the club wasn’t an internship scheme for new managers. We shouldn’t just be expecting managers to learn on the job and hope they eventually come good.

He’s been a manager for a decade too incase we’ve forgotten.
 
The United said:
Ole should have another year with some backing. He is still learning at this level and the club.
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If you go to job interviews and tell potential employers “I’ve got no track record but pay me a hefty salary, give me a few years to ‘learn on the job’ and maybe after that I will deliver results (or maybe not)”. I wonder if they would hire you or another candidate who has the credentials they’re looking for.
 
Ralph1386 said:
If you go to job interviews and tell potential employers “I’ve got no track record but pay me a hefty salary, give me a few years to ‘learn on the job’ and maybe after that I will deliver results (or maybe not)”. I wonder if they would hire you or another candidate who has the credentials they’re looking for.
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If you are pretending of not knowing what I am trying to say, then have it your way.

Learning here is how I see his situation. Does not mean he is trying to learn from 0 or we are ok with a manager who has no knowledge of how to manage at all.
 
Water Melon said:
Players and managers can leave their teams each and every year. And it is not like Ole is a fantastic pull for players. He is a nobody in top managers world and failed to win even a single cup while managing United. He is clearly below Pep, Klopp and Tuchel in the prem alone. If anything, if I were an elite footballer, I'd rather play under Ole for a season to start with than for three. If he finally wins something, he will have his contract extended. So far he has been unsuccessful.
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They can leave their teams every year, it doesn't mean that is the right situation for us. Chopping and changing managers every other year isn't a viable strategy for us because the reality of our ownership is we have relatively set budgets that we will be working within.

We cannot really afford too many seasons where we go out and have massive net spends to appease an incoming manager who has a certain style or expectation of players he wants. It's difficult to imagine we could spend as City did to target full backs, or in the way Chelsea targeted players last summer. We can sporadically spend big on a player but it has to be within an overall structure. This was the problem we had with Mourinho signings. They were good players but they weren't necessarily right for us, they cost us a fortunate during and beyond his tenure and were aligned with Mourinho's short term goals and became redundant beyond that.

We have to pretty much build with a manager over a period due to our structure. Within that, having managers on one year deals or in trial by fire situations isn't conducive to that strategy. That would be my theory on why we should either sack Ole right now or give him an extended deal. I would think this idea of leaving it in the air next season is a nonsense, we have to decide the man to take us forward.
 
Abraxas said:
They can leave their teams every year, it doesn't mean that is the right situation for us. Chopping and changing managers every other year isn't a viable strategy for us because the reality of our ownership is we have relatively set budgets that we will be working within.

We cannot really afford too many seasons where we go out and have massive net spends to appease an incoming manager who has a certain style or expectation of players he wants. It's difficult to imagine we could spend as City did to target full backs, or in the way Chelsea targeted players last summer. We can sporadically spend big on a player but it has to be within an overall structure. This was the problem we had with Mourinho signings. They were good players but they weren't necessarily right for us, they cost us a fortunate during and beyond his tenure and were aligned with Mourinho's short term goals and became redundant beyond that.

We have to pretty much build with a manager over a period due to our structure. Within that, having managers on one year deals or in trial by fire situations isn't conducive to that strategy. That would be my theory on why we should either sack Ole right now or give him an extended deal. I would think this idea of leaving it in the air next season is a nonsense, we have to decide the man to take us forward.
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Who says you have to do that to hire a new manager? As far as I can see, Tuchel has spent absolute feck all so far?

Just don't base your transfer strategy on your manager. That's exactly what Chelsea do - nobody could make sense of their summer transfer window last summer, because Lampard's teams obvious deficiencies were at the back. While Chelsea went and blew most of their budget on forwards - and its paid off now, because they bought the best players they could - and then just brought in the right manager for them,
 
Let's make it dependent on a trophy. If he wins at least a minor trophy he gets 2 more years, a major trophy 3 more years, no trophy again it's goodbye. I love Ole and I want him to succeed, but we have to be realistic, a manager who can't win trophies isn't good enough for our club, or we'll end up like Arsenal.
 
We will wait until we’ve made a slow start to the next season then when he’s under pressure but gets a decent result away to Everton in October then beats Spurs, get a routine win against Newcastle and immediately give him a five year deal off the strength of that alone
 
Skills said:
Who says you have to do that to hire a new manager? As far as I can see, Tuchel has spent absolute feck all so far?

Just don't base your transfer strategy on your manager. That's exactly what Chelsea do - nobody could make sense of their summer transfer window last summer, because Lampard's teams obvious deficiencies were at the back. While Chelsea went and blew most of their budget on forwards - and its paid off now, because they bought the best players they could - and then just brought in the right manager for them,
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Yes, but this is not how we operate, it is barking at the moon and nothing more than that. We now appear to have some sort of committee headed by Murtogh but all the noises coming out of the club are that the personnel has changed but the process is largely unchanged. The managers have a large say on transfers to the extent that they are approved by them, there is no going over and above the manager's head according to higher club principles. Those principles are set with the manager to begin with.

If the manager is deciding personnel then it stands to reason you must have medium to long term thinking with appointments. It doesn't mean you can't have the occasional temporary solution if needs must, but clearly this is going to be the exception rather than the rule and is probably limited to transitions between appointments.

We can throw all kinds of suggestions forward for how things should be, but under the system that exists the manager is afforded a degree of reverence within the overall footballing structure that means he isn't just a coach or a guy with the chalkboard. This is why the club would be keen to tie something down so all of the goals for the club and manager can be set across all areas of responsibility, not just the ones aimed at trophies or league positions.
 
Kaos said:
Why do we simply let him off the hook because “yung nd learnin”?

Last I checked the club wasn’t an internship scheme for new managers. We shouldn’t just be expecting managers to learn on the job and hope they eventually come good.

He’s been a manager for a decade too incase we’ve forgotten.
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He is a United legend, and the fanbase hope for a new Fergie. That's why. If that wasn't the case, nobody would support him on here.

If Ole succeeds, it means no manager change for a decade or two and the fanbase is happy. But he isn't good enough, that is the problem. Time alone wont make him a Fergie.
 
Abraxas said:
Yes, but this is not how we operate, it is barking at the moon and nothing more than that. We now appear to have some sort of committee headed by Murtogh but all the noises coming out of the club are that the personnel has changed but the process is largely unchanged. The managers have a large say on transfers to the extent that they are approved by them, there is no going over and above the manager's head according to higher club principles. Those principles are set with the manager to begin with.

If the manager is deciding personnel then it stands to reason you must have medium to long term thinking with appointments. It doesn't mean you can't have the occasional temporary solution if needs must, but clearly this is going to be the exception rather than the rule and is probably limited to transitions between appointments.

We can throw all kinds of suggestions forward for how things should be, but under the system that exists the manager is afforded a degree of reverence within the overall footballing structure that means he isn't just a coach or a guy with the chalkboard. This is why the club would be keen to tie something down so all of the goals for the club and manager can be set across all areas of responsibility, not just the ones aimed at trophies or league positions.
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The solution seems easy. Just strip that role away from him.

It seems like there's a structure in place now that goes beyond the manager with Murtough as the clubs sporting director - and the last piece is just demoting the managers role to a head coach. I can understand why its difficult to openly demote Solskjaer while he's still in charge, but why just lengthen that pain by extending his contract?
 
Skills said:
The solution seems easy. Just strip that role away from him.

It seems like there's a structure in place now that goes beyond the manager with Murtough as the clubs sporting director - and the last piece is just demoting the managers role to a head coach. I can understand why its difficult to openly demote Solskjaer while he's still in charge, but why just lengthen that pain by extending his contract?
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That's not going to happen though, is it? They have already decided on this "new" structure. They're not going to turn their back on that anytime soon. The manager remains part of the transfer setup, and given his position probably the most integral to it if he is able to veto transfers which is essentially the ability he has if they're saying they won't sign a player the manager doesn't approve.

The only difference compared to the Ferguson era may be that the manager is not commanding complete oversight of scouting, negotiations etc, that is somebody else's role. It's a two way street in terms of transfers but it's the manager that is able to put up road blocks and the manager that can direct traffic. He's probably going to get the players he wants most of the time if they respect his insight.

I am taking our structure as a given as maybe it is already something of a digression to be analysing this here. It seems pretty clear to me that the best solutions are to sack or extend the manager's contract depending on your perspective. Personally I would back him, but I understand the alternate arguments. Simply allowing things to bumble along with no contract discussions or no plans to change manager would be a distinct third choice for me.


.
 
Water Melon said:
Look at what Tuchel is doing at Chelsea having been there just for 4 months and compare to Ole. Extending his contract now does not make any sense whatsoever. However, knowing Woody...
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Ironically enough they fired another club legend, with an even larger profile in the English game than Ole, earliy to replace with an established tactician to take over an already very talented squad and they've reaped the rewards since...

Pundits and the press slated the Lampard firing at the time as premature and harsh yet Abramovich has only managed to be justified tenfold since then.

If only we had proactive ownership with actual balls like that instead of the complacent and reactionary leeches we have now.
 
Rolaholic said:
Ironically enough they fired another club legend, with an even larger profile in the English game than Ole, earliy to replace with an established tactician to take over an already very talented squad and they've reaped the rewards since...

Pundits and the press slated the Lampard firing at the time as premature and harsh yet Abramovich has only managed to be justified tenfold since then.

If only we had proactive ownership with actual balls like that instead of the complacent and reactionary leeches we have now.
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Yes but Ole is in a rebuild, can't judge him until he gets an entirely world-class XI and even if he doesn't win he's settling the bases for the next manager. He's a hero.
 
This let him have one more season talk is exactly why we are in this position. We lost Tuchel, Rose, Poch and Naggelsman because we thought Ole is the man. We lost to Villa feckin Real in the EL Final with two shots on target. It is a disgrace.
 
SAFMUTD said:
Yes but Ole is in a rebuild, can't judge him until he gets an entirely world-class XI and even if he doesn't win he's settling the bases for the next manager. He's a hero.
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:lol: :lol: :lol:

I laugh but you're not wrong. Some on here believe in the guy more than religious nutcases believe in their god.
 
You don't extend him, and then? Who do you appoint? Who really guarantees better performances?
Noone available, really. Anyone would be a risk.
 
This from a Bayern fan who are getting a 33-year-old?

At this point, we can get an Emery and we'd do better than we are right now, even if we'll still play shit.
 
SAFMUTD said:
Yes but Ole is in a rebuild, can't judge him until he gets an entirely world-class XI and even if he doesn't win he's settling the bases for the next manager. He's a hero.
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This is so true, I can't believe the blind love he gets, he wasn't even that big of a player for us, it's not like its Beckham or Scholes, even then at some point you have to see the reality and admit that just because he was a great player for us doesn't mean he also has to be a great manager.
 
Rightnr said:
:lol: :lol: :lol:

I laugh but you're not wrong. Some on here believe in the guy more than religious nutcases believe in their god.
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And where are these mythical fanatics, pray tell? I see some that have faith that he can get us where we want to be with backing, but I wouldn't say that warrants being compared to religious nutcases.

Then again, you do enjoy shitting on anyone who thinks he should be given time, so putting them down is probably just another way for you to make yourself feel superior.
 
I think a lot of people need to get on board with the fact the Alex Ferguson was not the rule. He was the exception to the rule. The greatest manager to ever grace the game, and some people think he can be replicated so easily. Every manager since, fans say "give him more time..." and inevitably it ends in tears. Ole isnt good enough. He never was. If it was going to happen, it would have happened by now. The EL final was just more of the same thing we have seen time and again under his management. Its time. He did his best, he made some good memories for himself and the fans. Time to move on before it turns sour. And it will turn sour.

Chelsea have shown that being ruthless is what wins shit. Not this stick with the same guy to the bitter end nonsense that we keep favouring thinking that SAF 2.0 is just around the corner. Hes not. His like may never come again. Some of us really need to accept that and let the dream of Ole go. Or once again we risk losing the chance to get a manager in that can win some silverware.
 
Halftrack said:
And where are these mythical fanatics, pray tell? I see some that have faith that he can get us where we want to be with backing, but I wouldn't say that warrants being compared to religious nutcases.

Then again, you do enjoy shitting on anyone who thinks he should be given time, so putting them down is probably just another way for you to make yourself feel superior.
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Expecting that Ole will turn into a world-class manager is like expecting Daniel James to turn into a world-class player.

There's nothing but faith to support it.
 
Halftrack said:
And where are these mythical fanatics, pray tell? I see some that have faith that he can get us where we want to be with backing, but I wouldn't say that warrants being compared to religious nutcases.

Then again, you do enjoy shitting on anyone who thinks he should be given time, so putting them down is probably just another way for you to make yourself feel superior.
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Look at this response. This is exactly what I mean.

We've just seen a manager 5 months into his job win the CL, while our favourite football student has been here 2.5 years and still needs time.

When confronted by such hard and clear facts you decide to attack me and that just makes my point for me.

OGS could have done something like what Tuchel did when he was interim but we saw where he got us to - getting smashed by Barcelona after one of the most unlikely comeback jammy wins in CL history (in terms of performance) against PSG.
 
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