Do any of you feel we're still struggling to get into the rhythm?

OleTheGreat

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I get this feeling that this squad of players always like the idea of a new coach and follow his methods initially but lose interest in a few games and it the same old slow half a**ed side ways and backwards passing after that. When Ole initially came in, I thought the football was good and he always encouraged players to pass the ball forward and quickly. During the lockdown period when Bruno initially moved to OT, we were playing some delightful football because we kept bursting forward and Martial along with Rashford and Greenwood made some great runs forward and received passes from Bruno but when the new season came along, we slowed down and couldn't break down teams with a low block.

Rangnick- everyone remembers the Crystal Palace game for sure. We pressed high, counter pressed all over the pitch and they had to go long every time to beat our initial press. Rangnick was very happy that these players could take to his methods so quickly but we all know how that ended.

ETH- the game against Liverpool regardless of they fielding in a youth team in the first half was a fast passing game and I thought the interplay within the boys in our team was beautiful and the high press was encouraging but since the Aston Villa pre season game, I see the tempo has dropped. I know that it is just a pre season game and I should not take much into account but I somehow see the same pattern. The insertion of Sancho on the right has definitely helped. Cristian Eriksen is a Godsend and Lisandro Martinez from what I have seen in the one game is a great fit. I hope we get Frenkie De Jong and fix the midfield because I definitely do not like Mctominay or Fred passing sideways and backwards. I think we have all grown tired of that.

My Question, Do you guys see ETH pushing this team to do greater things or Do you see the pattern repeating? (Is that why ETH keeps insisting on getting players with the right mindset because he doesn't think we have the potential at OT as of now)
 
It's 100% a fitness issue for me, our players press for a couple of games and then just start to look knackered. We should be bringing in some top quality fitness coaches to whip these lads into shape.
 
It's not interest that they lose. It's confidence - people don't seem to realise that footballers aren't machines, that you program and they just churn out what they're being trained.

The human side of it is quite important and the state that Rangnick inherited the squad in was shockingly low because of how we dithered on sacking Solskjaer. He might have faired better if we hadn't completely destroyed any form of confidence or self belief the squad had.

He was never going to be able to dramatically change much when the entire squad had a traumatic experience for months previously. He pragmatically decided to just keep it solid and it worked until the City game, where after we got battered again the confidence was again shot.
 
Bit hard to come to that conclusion when we are seeing so many variations of starting lineups and substitutes.

What is obvious is we are having better passages of play for longer periods in a game rather than just having 5 minute spells and then constantly having to counter attack. We actually look like a team that can keep possession now. Over time that will only improve with ETH.
 
Hard to judge right now because the team hasn't been consistent. The initial friendlies were great because it was more or less the same team starting. Thought Sancho was integral to how ETH wants to play and him being missing recently has shown in our performances.
 
It's too early to say.

Boring answer, but yeah.

I have been catching up on our pre-season performances - and I see several things I like, but it's impossible to say.

Have to wait and see how we play when it gets serious.
 
Cypriot said:
Thought Sancho was integral to how ETH wants to play and him being missing recently has shown in our performances.
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Yeah, this.

I think he's a genuinely top class player who should work fine, so that - at least - should be one box ticked (to put it like that).
 
Cypriot said:
Hard to judge right now because the team hasn't been consistent. The initial friendlies were great because it was more or less the same team starting. Thought Sancho was integral to how ETH wants to play and him being missing recently has shown in our performances.
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We were also playing against joke 11s. They were great entertainment but nothing to read into it at all. First game of the season is so soon, we will see a lot
 
We can't be in any kind if rhythm at this point when all we have done is play friendlies with much rotation of players.

Eriksen and Martinez joined late and we will hopefully make more signings. Its too early to judge.

I would say I'd like to get our signings done earlier so they can be integrated a bit better for the season starting.
 
It will take 2 years for this team with ETH to properly function. We need new players, we need present players to get in form, we need better fitness, we need a new mentality in the club, we need ten Hag to get to know the PL and we need the team to click.

People who think this will be solved in a few months will be very disappointed. Even at Ajax it took ten Hag a while to get going.
 
Based on preseason form, Arsenal will win the league.

Lets see what happens.
 
OleTheGreat said:
My Question, Do you guys see ETH pushing this team to do greater things or Do you see the pattern repeating? (Is that why ETH keeps insisting on getting players with the right mindset because he doesn't think we have the potential at OT as of now)
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Its clearly a pattern. When this team needs something to prove, or they have a break they come back firing then it drops off.

I have said this from the start of Ole's reign, initial bounce, then we dropped off.

His first season, was poor until Bruno when we had a bounce. Post lockdown, we played really well for 3/4 games then we saw the draws/ defeats but got top 4.

The season after start badly, then 6-1 defeat to Spurs then we got back playing well for a few games.

It's always the case with this group of players, liverpool and Melbourne were good games, then Villa, Ateletico, Rayo average.

People say we played well against Ateletico, but it was their 2nd pre season game and our last. 2nd half they outplayed us.
 
Honestly, it may take all season for them to adjust to the new style/philosophy.
 
OleTheGreat said:
I get this feeling that this squad of players always like the idea of a new coach and follow his methods initially but lose interest in a few games and it the same old slow half a**ed side ways and backwards passing after that. When Ole initially came in, I thought the football was good and he always encouraged players to pass the ball forward and quickly. During the lockdown period when Bruno initially moved to OT, we were playing some delightful football because we kept bursting forward and Martial along with Rashford and Greenwood made some great runs forward and received passes from Bruno but when the new season came along, we slowed down and couldn't break down teams with a low block.

Rangnick- everyone remembers the Crystal Palace game for sure. We pressed high, counter pressed all over the pitch and they had to go long every time to beat our initial press. Rangnick was very happy that these players could take to his methods so quickly but we all know how that ended.

ETH- the game against Liverpool regardless of they fielding in a youth team in the first half was a fast passing game and I thought the interplay within the boys in our team was beautiful and the high press was encouraging but since the Aston Villa pre season game, I see the tempo has dropped. I know that it is just a pre season game and I should not take much into account but I somehow see the same pattern. The insertion of Sancho on the right has definitely helped. Cristian Eriksen is a Godsend and Lisandro Martinez from what I have seen in the one game is a great fit. I hope we get Frenkie De Jong and fix the midfield because I definitely do not like Mctominay or Fred passing sideways and backwards. I think we have all grown tired of that.

My Question, Do you guys see ETH pushing this team to do greater things or Do you see the pattern repeating? (Is that why ETH keeps insisting on getting players with the right mindset because he doesn't think we have the potential at OT as of now)
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The squad needs a complete clear out.
People revert to type.
Most of these players aren't good enough or lack the mentality to be top Players.
Until ETH completes the overhaul you can judge nothing.

These players are what they are.


This will take time.
 
Sassy Colin said:
We've had a few pre season games and we're not quite ready yet.

No shit Sherlock.
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What a wonderful contribution to this discussion.

He stated in the OP that it’s early in the season and that might be the cause, but also listed 2 other examples where the players buy into the managers philosophy initially but then revert back to sideways passing and lack of ambition. I think it’s a legitimate concern and something I have thought about as well. It’s a worth a discussion because while we have switched managers, the players have remained with the exception of a few ins and outs.

I think the players are way to comfortable being in the club they are in now. A new manager comes in, they work their butts off to get thrown in the starting eleven, a few months passes and the standards in training drops. The manager will then select his favourites, those who worked hard in the beginning.

ETH has to show that no one is safe, and just play the ones who work the hardest, those who have ambition and courage. If it’s just a bunch of 17 year olds from the academy, then so be it. There is something wrong with the culture at Manchester United and you need a strong, authoritative leader to sort this out, hopefully ETH is the man.
 
Its going to be a difficult season for some. Expectations will be too high and the reality of a true rebuild will become apparent to those expecting too much too soon.
 
bondsname said:
What a wonderful contribution to this discussion.

He stated in the OP that it’s early in the season and that might be the cause, but also listed 2 other examples where the players buy into the managers philosophy initially but then revert back to sideways passing and lack of ambition. I think it’s a legitimate concern and something I have thought about as well. It’s a worth a discussion because while we have switched managers, the players have remained with the exception of a few ins and outs.

I think the players are way to comfortable being in the club they are in now. A new manager comes in, they work their butts off to get thrown in the starting eleven, a few months passes and the standards in training drops. The manager will then select his favourites, those who worked hard in the beginning.

ETH has to show that no one is safe, and just play the ones who work the hardest, those who have ambition and courage. If it’s just a bunch of 17 year olds from the academy, then so be it. There is something wrong with the culture at Manchester United and you need a strong, authoritative leader to sort this out, hopefully ETH is the man.
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Thanks for backing me. This is exactly my concern. It has nothing to do with the managers and their mentality, it has everything to do with the culture that has recently developed in the club. We have forgotten that Man Utd is one of the biggest clubs in Europe and that we should reek of quality all around.
 
romufc said:
Its clearly a pattern. When this team needs something to prove, or they have a break they come back firing then it drops off.

I have said this from the start of Ole's reign, initial bounce, then we dropped off.

His first season, was poor until Bruno when we had a bounce. Post lockdown, we played really well for 3/4 games then we saw the draws/ defeats but got top 4.

The season after start badly, then 6-1 defeat to Spurs then we got back playing well for a few games.

It's always the case with this group of players, liverpool and Melbourne were good games, then Villa, Ateletico, Rayo average.

People say we played well against Ateletico, but it was their 2nd pre season game and our last. 2nd half they outplayed us.
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I thought the Villa, Atletico and Rayo games were bang average. We expect a lot more than just keeping possession. I don't see any kind of pattern in the way we play.
 
I hope - and think - that the players understand that this is their last chance now, and that blaming the manager/giving up will not work any more. I think they have had reason to believe that Ole would go and RR was an interim after all. Last year I think they all just started waiting for the next season. This time around I don't really see the club changing route very quickly. We spent almost a year picking out our man, which also happens to be a modern, youngish and top ranked manager. I really hope the club stick with ETH through whatever might come in the next few years, and that the players understand that it is either his way or out.
 
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We're doing fine so far with what we have. It will be even better as we get better quality players. That much is obvious to see. Season hasn't even started anyway. No team is in full 'rhythm' yet.
 
was not expecting to be in much of a rhythm by now

what are you expecting to see by now? Many of our players are just not suitable to play Ten Hags brand of football

it’s gonna take 2/3 windows and a lot of hard work, with many highs and lows along the way
 
For me it's not really a rythm issue but more a concentration/fitness issue. So far every pre season game we've come out of the second half considerably worse, whether it's just tired legs or a concentration issue remains to be seen.
 
bondsname said:
What a wonderful contribution to this discussion.

He stated in the OP that it’s early in the season and that might be the cause, but also listed 2 other examples where the players buy into the managers philosophy initially but then revert back to sideways passing and lack of ambition. I think it’s a legitimate concern and something I have thought about as well. It’s a worth a discussion because while we have switched managers, the players have remained with the exception of a few ins and outs.

I think the players are way to comfortable being in the club they are in now. A new manager comes in, they work their butts off to get thrown in the starting eleven, a few months passes and the standards in training drops. The manager will then select his favourites, those who worked hard in the beginning.

ETH has to show that no one is safe, and just play the ones who work the hardest, those who have ambition and courage. If it’s just a bunch of 17 year olds from the academy, then so be it. There is something wrong with the culture at Manchester United and you need a strong, authoritative leader to sort this out, hopefully ETH is the man.
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It's more useful than your wall of text which no one's bothered to read :p
 
You can’t base anything on Preseason. Most teams are going to be either inconsistent or consistent at grinding out results in the first few weeks. There isn’t usually a team that hits it running right out the gate.

If we are judging teams purely on pre season results, Arsenal are going to storm the league and we all know that’s not happening.
 
It's way too early for the title of this thread. It will probably be too early a decent bit into the season. We need to just give ETH this season to get his system in place, in my humble opinion.
 
Sassy Colin said:
It's more useful than your wall of text which no one's bothered to read :p
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I don’t know why you’re so hostile. I just thought it was worth a discussion. Maybe it’s true no one is going to read my text, but I hope at least I contributed something.

I’m sorry if I offended you and I wish you a pleasant evening.
 
We've got to be patient and this time, we've to rightfully lower expectations I feel. Took even Klopp a season to get things to work, despite successful signings.

bondsname said:
I’m sorry if I offended you and I wish you a pleasant evening.
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On my first skim, I read it as "peasant evening" :D
 
bondsname said:
I don’t know why you’re so hostile. I just thought it was worth a discussion. Maybe it’s true no one is going to read my text, but I hope at least I contributed something.

I’m sorry if I offended you and I wish you a pleasant evening.
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It's just that these sort of threads are just so tedious and add nothing to the Forum.

Ten Hag's been here a month and some people expect us to be well on the way to the quadruple already.
 
Sassy Colin said:
We've had a few pre season games and we're not quite ready yet.

No shit Sherlock.
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Such a dumb reply as though it’s a crazy question to ask. It’s not like the players completely abandoned a new style of play under a new manager in the recent past or anything.
 
It's a handful of preseason games with wholesale changes in most of them. There's not much point in doing any serious analysis until a few months in to the season at least
 
Sassy Colin said:
It's just that these sort of threads are just so tedious and add nothing to the Forum.

Ten Hag's been here a month and some people expect us to be well on the way to the quadruple already.
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Listen we all read the game a different way, you cannot expect all the threads in the forum to be as you like it. Contribute if you like it or you can just ignore it. Stop making snide comments and buzz off!
 
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