Departures - Valuing our Squad

No point getting rid of cleveley, he's a decent squad player, home grown and not on lots. Plus we can't afford to be giving away midfielders. If he has better payers around him he will improve.
Hernandez won't be as valuable as we think unless he has a cracking world cup. 15m at the best at the moment.
Kagawa, we'll be lucky to get back what we paid, I expect him to be used as part of a player deal. 12m if lucky.
Nani- 7m
Evra-i have a sneaky suspicion he may stay and chose to take option to extend contact For a year.
Fellaini will not be sold in a million years.
Valencia- don't expect to be sold if kagawa goes, 10m if lucky.
Ashley young-again it depends on if kagawa or valencia goes, all three won't be sold. 10m max, but who will pay that? Most likely an English club as he will be more valuable to English team, just don't see who's style he fits, Ironically last year I would have said everton. ..Go figure.
Buttner- <1m, most likely a loan.
Wouldn't be surprised to see rvp go now, might get 10-15 off arse or maybe someone random like galatasary/st petes but can't see him going there
Everyone knows we will be selling a lot This summer, we've been clever enough to advertise it quite heavily! Question is do we get rid early to free up funds, or keep til after world cup and hope we get a better deal out of shop window?
 
B20 said:
The likes of Cleverley, Valencia and Young, bemoaned by fans as they are, are obviously trusted a lot more by Moyes than Kagawa, Nani and Hernandez. They will be out the door well before the former three are in danger of being sold.
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Unfortunately, he's bang on.
Out of those three id prefer it to be valencia who goes
 
It seems to be a popular view that Nani will be leaving. Why? I've not understood this. He just signed a new contract and has been injured. When he signed the contract Moyes said:

"I'm really pleased Nani has re-signed for the next five years," and

"I've been impressed with his approach to training and look forward to working with him in the coming seasons."

So why does this view of him being sold persist?
 
Stretch said:
It seems to be a popular view that Nani will be leaving. Why? I've not understood this. He just signed a new contract and has been injured. When he signed the contract Moyes said:

"I'm really pleased Nani has re-signed for the next five years," and

"I've been impressed with his approach to training and look forward to working with him in the coming seasons."

So why does this view of him being sold persist?
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Because we tried desperately to loan him out in January, only got scuppered by last minute injury.
Also tried to sell him to Roma last summer
 
Dracula said:
Because we tried desperately to loan him out in January, only got scuppered by last minute injury.
Also tried to sell him to Roma last summer
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And this is based on what evidence? The only concrete evidence is the new contract. Other than that we've nothing but newspaper stories.
 
In fact, if I recall, the main source of that rumour was the very reliable Sky Italia.

It makes no sense for us to want to loan him out just months after he's signed a new 5 year deal.
 
I think the deal was all about being able to secure a fee be it in January or this summer. Had he not signed the deal, his value would have plummeted as he reached the end of his contract.
 
Dans said:
I think the deal was all about being able to secure a fee be it in January or this summer. Had he not signed the deal, his value would have plummeted as he reached the end of his contract.
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Again I ask, based on what exactly? The rumours about him being loaned out stemmed from Sky Italia if I recall. They're very unreliable.

The Roma episode in the summer was due to SAF and he would have left if SAF was still here. If I recall the club gave Moyes the choice. Moyes opted to hand Nani a new contract and to not sell him.
 
Nani has been injured all season has he?

He has hardly ever played under Moyes even when he has been fit.

He's been shite for years. Coming to his peak my arse - he's either way passed it or he's not going to hit it with us and certainly not under Moyes.

He needs to move on. We need to cash in something at least.

That's why I think Nani was offered a new deal (I have no evidence - this is a forum and I am putting forth an opinion - quite normal fare)
 
Dans said:
That's why I think Nani was offered a new deal (I have no evidence - this is a forum and I am putting forth an opinion - quite normal fare)
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The question is how much the new contract improved his value.

If I recall correctly, Galatasaray and Juventus were prepared to pay around 7 m for him. If he is on around 6 m per year, that means the contract extension would need to double his value in order for United to earn only 1 million from selling him a year after the contract got extended.

It would have more sense IMO if his contract got extended in July and he left on the last day of the transfer window, but it's clear that United did not try to sell him immediately after the extension.
 
Dans said:
Nani has been injured all season has he?

He has hardly ever played under Moyes even when he has been fit.

He's been shite for years. Coming to his peak my arse - he's either way passed it or he's not going to hit it with us and certainly not under Moyes.

He needs to move on. We need to cash in something at least.

That's why I think Nani was offered a new deal (I have no evidence - this is a forum and I am putting forth an opinion - quite normal fare)
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Why did you assume you're under attack? I made my initial remark/question in general as it is a general theme around the caf with I feel, no factual basis.

I've nothing against him being sold though I do think there's benefit in him staying. Also I'd say it's unfair to say he's been 'shite for years' but that's another debate on its own all together.

I've just asked that people back up this growing belief that he's indeed leaving. I'm not saying he's not leaving nor that he should not leave just why does the caf belief that he's a dead certain departure? That's been the consensus not just in this thread but all over the caf.
 
We never seem to do that well when it comes to transfer fees. If we were buying Hernandez we'd probably pay about £25m and he's probably worth that. What we'll get for him is more like about £14-15m.

Valencia £6m
Kagawa £10-15m
Cleverley £7m
Anderson £3.5m
Nani £9m (worth a lot more imo)
Young £6.5m (again if we were going in for him now we'd probably end up paying a shed load more)
RVP £13m

Not saying they will move either.
 
How is Nani worth more than £9m? High wages, always injured and inconsistent as hell
 
I don't want to see Kagawa leave.

Firstly, because it makes little sense apart from the fact that Moyes doesn't rate him. He has had bad games, true, but he's never been given a run of games the way Ashley Young, Valencia or Tom Cleverley have - not once in two seasons! And the times he's looked good, he's looked great. I don't need to repeat the examples for you. He can be United quality, there's no doubt about it. He's 23, and just needs consistent game time.

Secondly, because of our formation. I don't think Rooney behind RvP in a 4-4-1 or a 4-2-3-1 is the best way forward for us, considering the players we have. They just don't link up up well, and RvP's too old and injury-prone to build our future upon -it's got to be Rooney. I'd rather RvP left, and Mata/Kagawa were rotated in the hole. Even Chicarito won't have to leave anymore, if that were the case.

Thirdly, all this talk of using him in a player exchange seems ill-considered to me. You always get underpaid in exchange deals, and that is after we've established a miserly 13m as his value right now. Just ask yourself this: would an in-form Kagawa, scoring 10 goals a season, and setting up 15 be really as cheap as that? Unless we've firmly established that Kagawa will not make it here, it's unwise to let him go. He's 23, it's not as if his value will plummet next season. I'd rather pay the extra 10m for Gundogan or use RvP as leverage rather than let Kagawa leave in an exchange.

And fourthly, it's not as if he's aging out or putting in a transfer request or anything. His wages are modest, and so far, he's repeatedly said that he's willing to work hard for his spot. He'll play for Japan irrespective of current game time at United, so no frustrations on that account. He doesn't have much influence on the squad, and so won't be the typical 'unhappy player' either.

And fifth, at the end of the season, if Moyes has not improved our performances or started out with what the majority of the Caf believe to be our best XI, his future will be in question. In such a situation I'd rather not sell Kagawa for 10m, only to have the next manager buy a similar player for 30m the next season. Don't you agree?

So why let Kagawa leave?
 
Dracula said:
Because we tried desperately to loan him out in January, only got scuppered by last minute injury.
Also tried to sell him to Roma last summer
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Who was the Russian club we tried to sell him to as well?
 
I really hope Kagawa gets to play for United under a manager who knows how to use him and implement his abilities in a team playing the right sort of football.

He hasn't had that in nearly two years.
 
Contrary to a few of the posters here, I think we should let Cleverley leave.

The way I look at it, he'll never be a first choice player for us. Never. He'll always remain a squad player, and will be called upon to 'do a job' when the situation arises. Now my point is - why continue giving chances to someone you know will never make it, rather than allow the likes of Powell/Rothwell to gain some experience?

Suppose Cleverley stays, and we loan out Powell to, say West Brom. Now when Powell returns from loan after a fairly successful spell, does he straightaway get into the first team? I doubt it - we have to ease him into our XI. Why not do it now? We know Cleverley's 'ceiling', but we don't know how good Powell can be. Why waste another season to find it out later on, when you can do it right now?

Cleverley's continued presence will be a hindrance to the growth of our youth CMs, and that's a price we don't really need to pay. So send him packing right now, I say.
 
Gandalf Greyhame said:
I don't want to see Kagawa leave.

Firstly, because it makes little sense apart from the fact that Moyes doesn't rate him.

[snip]

So why let Kagawa leave?
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This is the only reason you need.
 
B20 said:
This is the only reason you need.
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Check Point 5 - not if Moyes is gone, or if he hits upon the other points up there.

And judging by his learning curve, the the next four games will probably tip things in the former's favour.

You're really enjoying this, aren't you?
 
This all depends on if Moyes is still the manager or not. If he's still here I'd imagine this would likely happen:

Hernandez sold for 10 Million abroad or 15 million to someone like Spurs or Newcastle
Kagawa either used as a makeweight for someone or sold outright for 10-12 million
RVP might ask to leave but be denied
Anderson sold for "Undisclosed Fee" which will probably be in the region of 2-3 Million
The likes of Buttner, Valencia and Young will stay. Moyes seems to rate all of them and theres no way we're going to lose at least 8 current first team players in one window.

If another manager comes in, I can see Kagawa and Hernandez staying another season to see if things will be different. Anderson and Vidic are the only ones who are certain to leave.
 
Gandalf Greyhame said:
Contrary to a few of the posters here, I think we should let Cleverley leave.

The way I look at it, he'll never be a first choice player for us. Never. He'll always remain a squad player, and will be called upon to 'do a job' when the situation arises. Now my point is - why continue giving chances to someone you know will never make it, rather than allow the likes of Powell/Rothwell to gain some experience?

Suppose Cleverley stays, and we loan out Powell to, say West Brom. Now when Powell returns from loan after a fairly successful spell, does he straightaway get into the first team? I doubt it - we have to ease him into our XI. Why not do it now? We know Cleverley's 'ceiling', but we don't know how good Powell can be. Why waste another season to find it out later on, when you can do it right now?

Cleverley's continued presence will be a hindrance to the growth of our youth CMs, and that's a price we don't really need to pay. So send him packing right now, I say.
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Cleverley is not a hinderance, he is one of the few we actually have. We have a lack of numbers as well as quality, and there's no reason why he can't have a role in the squad if it isn't first choice.
 
KingMinger22 said:
How is Nani worth more than £9m? High wages, always injured and inconsistent as hell
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Fair enough on the injury part and he is inconsistent but at a different club I think you could get more consistency out of him. At his best he's worth between 25-30m in my opinion. If we were in the market for him I could easily see us paying over 20m, couldn't you?
 
Who ever gets Chicharito and Kagawa will have value for money to say the least.

They will be two players that we wil regret to let go. Chicha just need to get involved in play more and I think a Klopp would work wonders in him. Kagawa is a player that needs to be told what to do rather than just going out there and expressing his quality like Mata. This Just highlights Klopp's tactic detail and getting th best out of players.
 
VeevaVee said:
Fair enough on the injury part and he is inconsistent but at a different club I think you could get more consistency out of him. At his best he's worth between 25-30m in my opinion. If we were in the market for him I could easily see us paying over 20m, couldn't you?
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That's not how you measure how much someone will sell for, that's his value to us, not his value for re-sale.
 
Jaybezia said:
You didn't, you said he was worth more than £9, then further went to argue your point with KingMinger22 who believed he'd be closer to a 9..
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You can clearly see I said I think he'd go for 9m. But I think he's worth more. I then went on to say if it was us buying him we'd pay more than 20m. It's simple stuff.
 
VeevaVee said:
You can clearly see I said I think he'd go for 9m. But I think he's worth more. I then went on to say if it was us buying him we'd pay more than 20m. It's simple stuff.
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It is simple, but it's wrong.

Why would we sell someone for £9 million, but if we wanted to buy him, he'd suddenly double in value?
 
Jaybezia said:
It is simple, but it's wrong.

Why would we sell someone for £9 million, but if we wanted to buy him, he'd suddenly double in value?
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:lol: You said I didn't but it's there in black and white.

We buy plenty of players of around Nani's ability for more.
 
Jaybezia said:
You are avoiding the question, Why would we sell someone for £9 million, but if we wanted to buy him, he'd suddenly double in value?
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It's not a question I need to answer. It's something that I could see happening.
 
VeevaVee said:
It's not a question I need to answer. It's something that I could see happening.
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It's just a bit mental, in a thread talking about valuing our squad, you cite a figure (£20m) and then agree after a moment, he wouldn't be sold for me than £9 million, however you then feel it necessary to add what we may have bought him (or a player of his talent) for, despite then adding that "it's not something you can see happening"...

You just seem to have a real gripe at Nani being valued at £9million, he isn't worth £25-30 million currently, that's a fact.
 
Jaybezia said:
It's just a bit mental, in a thread talking about valuing our squad, you cite a figure (£20m) and then agree after a moment, he wouldn't be sold for me than £9 million, however you then feel it necessary to add what we may have bought him (or a player of his talent) for, despite then adding that "it's not something you can see happening"...

You just seem to have a real gripe at Nani being valued at £9million, he isn't worth £25-30 million currently, that's a fact.
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:lol: what are you on about? You're the one that has a gripe. The figure I said was 9m. Why can't you grasp this? That's how much I could see him going for. I do, however believe he is a quality player and worth more than this, although I did agree he is inconsistent and injury prone.

I've mentioned I could see us buying him for 20m+ if he was at another club and we were interested. Is that really such a crazy thing? We pay over the odds for a lot of players. Maybe it'd be less due to the injuries, 16m perhaps to throw a number out there.

Wondering if I'm being wummed here, you loony.
 
Cleverley and Welbeck are home grown players, they won't leave, we need to meet a quota.
 
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