Delta Airlines Crash

[Dr. Dwayne]

Going off the Twitter video that doesn't seem to be an issue here, the approach looks to be pretty normal right up until the last moment, visibility looks fairly good and there's no crosswind of any note

You can see the snow blowing across the ground in the video. In those conditions you can see a good distance to the horizon but when you look at the ground it can get dicey.

 

[Red in STL]

According to https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/what-we-know-so-far-pearson-airport-plane-crash-1.7461520:

Then they probably shouldn't have been cleared to land, it suggests that they were too close to the previous landing aircraft, which happens all the time, and should result in a go-around, if this reprot is accurate then the controller is going to be in the dark brown stuff methinks

 

[G3079]

Are you a pilot?

I've been flying when I was a bit younger, but I currently do not hold an active license, no.

At the press conference they said the runway was dry and there were no crosswind issues at the time

Looks like he's come in a bit fast to me, I can't see any spoliers deployed though it's hard to tell in this video, there's definitely no flare, so I suspect (guessing) we're looking at some kind of hydraulic failure with the controls or the pilot has misjudged the height

The person who fielded that question in the interview was the fire chief. Not only was he way out of line talking about flight ops - that is simply not his area of expertise and he should never be answering questions about that - his words contradict what we could see in the footage published which clearly show snow being blown across the runway, thus showing crosswind. He might have meant that the crosswind was not exceeding the limits, but he didn't say it. Which is why he is "only" the fire chief, not a flight ops manager or whatever role should have been fielding those questions. The tower communications also contradict him, having given the wind conditions as 270° 23kts gusts 33, clearly showing there was an active crosswind at the time.
For the same reason, I'll rather trust in the NOTAMs which are maintained by dedicated, schooled personnel and give the runway condition as 5/5/5 rather than listen to a fire chief talking out of line.

I don't see the aircraft as being too fast at all, it looks like an entire normal approach speed to me. They have to be a bit over their normal approach speed to account for the gusting winds, or else they risk falling into a stall when the wind lets up a bit, but that is expected and totally manageable. Spoilers should not normally be deployed before they touch the ground, I don't know why you expect to see those. I see nothing indicating a hydraulics failure either.

Could they have mistakenly entered the altitude of the Runway into their systems or would the airports ILS overrule that? - it's hard to tell from such a short video but it almost looks like a controlled descent into the ground rather than a pilot fighting windshear.

As you say there is no flare on approach to the ground. Amazing everyone survived that hard a landing. I thought it was just going to be a skidding aircraft / slippery runway /low overall speed crash when I heard the plane flipped but everyone got out.

I don't know about the system in the CRJ900, but I know that in Airbus and Boeing systems normally you don't need to enter any runway elevation manually, the computer already knows the runway elevation and automatically fills the field when you select the airport and runway. I'd suspect it is the same in the Bombardier. You can manually change the value in case something is wrong, but usually you only check, but don't touch it. The conditions are also good so I don't think they'd have been flying that final only by instruments without looking outside. And finally, the radar altimeter does not care for what's in the system, it would call out and display altitudes according to what it measures.

I'm not a pilot but an incorrect setting in the barometric altimeter would give a false height reading, that said they can visually see the ground so that seems a bit unlikely

As said above, radar altimeter does not care for barometric altitude, it'll still give its callouts according to its own measurements. And unless you're already completely task-saturated and behind the aircraft, you do notice when the callouts go from 200 to 100 to 50, 40, etc. in neckbreaking speed.
The barometric altitude was also almost identical with the standard value at 29.93, so the pilots would have had to have dialed in complete nonsense after crossing FL180. They'd have been at a totally wrong altitude at their checkpoints and ATC should have noticed and called them on not being at the correct altitude on their approach.
And as you say, they can just look outside. The visibility was good.

Yes just seen that video - it seems on a good approach but as it is about to go behind the car's pillar the nose of the plan starts to level and then point down. It just continues to drop rather than flare and looks like the right side wing gear collapses due to the stress of the very hard landing - looks like this was instantaneous with the belly of the plane hitting the ground though rather than a cause.

Amazing the airframe survived that hit and roll.

It's an aircraft that is filmed from, it was lined up to start from the same runway the accident aircraft was just landing on. I don't see the CRJ pointing down at all, that's just a trick of perspective. To me it looks like it just keeps the same attitude for the entire time in that video. In the other video I linked you can see a slight drop of the right wing just as it is about to touch down, which causes the right main gear to make contact with the ground first, which was just too much for it to take by itself. Could be some correction by the pilot, could be that the wind dropped out a bit at the time reducing the lift on that wing, the flight data recorder will tell. The gear gives way, the aircraft then comes down on the right wing, and the rest then just snowballs from there as we can see.

Then they probably shouldn't have been cleared to land, it suggests that they were too close to the previous landing aircraft, which happens all the time, and should result in a go-around, if this reprot is accurate then the controller is going to be in the dark brown stuff methinks

Warnings of possible wake turbulence both for takeoffs and landings happen all the time, at any busy airport in the world. It's literally an everyday thing. I doubt this was an issue of seperation, nothing in the videos I've seen shows their problems being due to wake turbulence. They just did not flare for whatever reason.

 

[SilentWitness]

All passengers have been offered $30k in compensation.

 

[Red in STL]

All passengers have been offered $30k in compensation.

That's just to replace all the brown-stained clothes, and the hotel bills and the like, mostly to try and stave off the lawsuits that are coming - which it won't!

 

[Cheimoon]

All passengers have been offered $30k in compensation.

If the offer is that kind of amount within a week after the incident, there's a probably a lot more to be gotten if the passengers got organized.

Although personally, $30K while you survived fine... As long as you're not struggling with PTSD (but could you know now already?), it might be worth accepting the offer just so you don't get involved in a years-long lawsuit.

 

[G3079]

If the offer is that kind of amount within a week after the incident, there's a probably a lot more to be gotten if the passengers got organized.

Although personally, $30K while you survived fine... As long as you're not struggling with PTSD (but could you know now already?), it might be worth accepting the offer just so you don't get involved in a years-long lawsuit.

Remarkably, taking those $30k would seemingly not impact their ability to sue for more damages. In a move that I personally haven't heard of before, this payment is reported to come with no strings attached. Usually there'd be clause preventing anybody who takes the money from further legal action against the company, but from what I read such a clause is not present this time.

 

[Red in STL]

Remarkably, taking those $30k would seemingly not impact their ability to sue for more damages. In a move that I personally haven't heard of before, this payment is reported to come with no strings attached. Usually there'd be clause preventing anybody who takes the money from further legal action against the company, but from what I read such a clause is not present this time.

Being a cynical type, it does make me think do Delta know something the general public don't?

Or is it just a 'marketing' ploy to make them look good before the shitstorm?

 

[G3079]

Being a cynical type, it does make me think do Delta know something the general public don't?

Or is it just a 'marketing' ploy to make them look good before the shitstorm?

If Delta knew something was fishy would that not make them more likely to offer the money only in exchange for a no-sue agreement?

I'd say it's a PR move and hope that a gesture of goodwill might deterr some people from taking legal action without the negative headlines that offering a hush money agreement might bring.

 

[Redplane]

If Delta knew something was fishy would that not make them more likely to offer the money only in exchange for a no-sue agreement?

I'd say it's a PR move and hope that a gesture of goodwill might deterr some people from taking legal action without the negative headlines that offering a hush money agreement might bring.

I'd be curious to see any writing that will undoubtedly accompany the acceptance of the money. At minimum it may seriously undermine someone s ability to effectively sue. Companies offer buyouts to problematic employees for similar reasons.

 

[Red in STL]

If Delta knew something was fishy would that not make them more likely to offer the money only in exchange for a no-sue agreement?

I'd say it's a PR move and hope that a gesture of goodwill might deterr some people from taking legal action without the negative headlines that offering a hush money agreement might bring.

Appears there's no conditions so PR it probably is

 

[baskinginthesun]

Being a cynical type, it does make me think do Delta know something the general public don't?

Or is it just a 'marketing' ploy to make them look good before the shitstorm?

PR or goodwill for sure. This is technically an Endeavor flight, Endeavor crew, Endeavor maintenance and Endeavor airplane.

Delta owns the route and sold the ticket but, was flown under the Ops Spec and Flight Ops of the regional airline.

Delta is probably still trying to figure out what happened as much as everybody else.

 

[Red in STL]

PR or goodwill for sure. This is technically an Endeavor flight, Endeavor crew, Endeavor maintenance and Endeavor airplane.

Delta owns the route and sold the ticket but, was flown under the Ops Spec and Flight Ops of the regional airline.

Delta is probably still trying to figure out what happened as much as everybody else.

Endeavor is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Delta, essentially it exists so they don't have to pay the staff as much as the mainline folks