Declan Rice

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Any which way we have to get 2 midfielders. If Rice is gettable for 60-70 then get him but if West Ham don’t budge then we might have to wait. And if it’s impossible to sign him this summer then get Neves and Tielemens for a combined 80m. Excellent midfielders, brilliant technically and tactically and would also create galore. The only downside is the lack of agility but even then they more than make up for it with their football intelligence and know how. I don’t want us to get tchouameni because of 2 reasons.
1) I don’t think he is nowhere near as good as Rice.
2) I don’t think he would be cheap at all.

Either get Rice or Get Neves and Tielemens and then get Rice in 2023.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Over the past decade and more, we’ve actually proven to be the best in England at overpaying by far for English players that have ultimately proven to a been a let down, Smalling, Jones, Shaw, Maguire, AWB. Jury’s certainly out on the massive fee for Sancho also.
So recent evidence suggests the opposite of your post, we would likely be the only ones to offer 90 million quid for him, only for him to arrive and us realise that he’s alright but not ultimately any solution to our bigger wider issues as a club/team.
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You don’t think our recruitment is shambolic?

You’re looking at players and questioning if they were worth the money and that’s certainly arguable. I’m saying there’s a great player here - one we really should get but we won’t. As far back as Moyes, we were messing about trying to be clever and get bargains and we ended up with Fellaini for a fee not far off what Rice will cost (once you factor in the crazy inflation of transfer fees).

If you don’t rate Rice and think he’d flop then that’s a different debate.

As for any one player being the answer to our problems, no they won’t be. However, part of the problem is our shambolic recruitment. If we can’t develop enough youth players and get them into the first team, we have to sign as many good players as possible. The trouble with that is we don’t have a viable strategy for doing it. By the time we get things right in one part of the pitch we need to strengthen somewhere else. The worse we get, the harder it is to recruit.
 
OrcaFat said:
You don’t think our recruitment is shambolic?

You’re looking at players and questioning if they were worth the money and that’s certainly arguable. I’m saying there’s a great player here - one we really should get but we won’t.
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Everyone said Pogba was a great player, the entire forum thought Schneiderlin was a great player, the entire forum forum said Shaw would be a great player, the entire forum thought Sancho would instantly be one of the best player in the league. What is different about this one?

In fact considering how shambolic you consider our recruitment process, it’s very funny to see that most of the players we’ve signed over the past decade have been welcomed with open arms and declared as great signings at the time they were bought.

How many signings have you been against right from the off?

How can be so sure he won’t be another Schneiderlin, or Pogba, or Maguire?
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Everyone said Pogba was a great player, the entire forum thought Schneiderlin was a great player, the entire forum forum said Shaw would be a great player, the entire forum thought Sancho would instantly be one of the best player in the league. What is different about this one?

How can be so sure he won’t be another Schneiderlin, or Pogba, or Maguire?
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I did think the crux of your post was that you don’t rate him. The consensus is fairly overwhelming now but you might be right and we might all be wrong.
 
OrcaFat said:
I did think the crux of your post was that you don’t rate him. The consensus is fairly overwhelming now but you might be right and we might all be wrong.
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No, the crux is, posters like you claim our recruitment is shambolic, yet have loved almost every signing. Just one year ago you posted….

OrcaFat said:
AWB and Maguire are both excellent, would be madness to get rid of them.
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Regulus Arcturus Black said:
No, the crux is, posters like you claim our recruitment is shambolic, yet have loved almost every signing. Just one year ago you posted….
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They were both excellent. Not so good on recent form but I still wouldn’t sell them.

Do you think all those other players you mentioned indicate well organised recruitment? What do you think - is it a shambolic or not?

And I wouldn’t blame the managers here either. LVG gave a list of 20 players to the board and didn’t get any of them (if I remember correctly).

Still, the key question in this little debate is: do you rate Rice and want us to sign him or not?
 
OrcaFat said:
They were both excellent. Not so good on recent form but I still wouldn’t sell them.

Do you think all those other players you mentioned indicate well organised recruitment? What do you think - is it a shambolic or not?

And I wouldn’t blame the managers here either. LVG gave a list of 20 players to the board and didn’t get any of them (if I remember correctly).

Still, the key question in this little debate is: do you rate Rice and want us to sign him or not?
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The discussion I'm in with you isn't about Rice, it is about your own (and many others) hypocrisy and lack of self awareness. You think our recruitment has been shambolic, yet you've openly lauded our signings. Instead of realising that maybe you, and the rest of us, aren't too great at predicting how signings will work out, you remained convinced that "this one is a GREAT player" and that we won't get him due to shambolic recruitment.

I'll ask again, as you clearly thought Maguire and AWB were great signings (I thought Maguire was for what it's worth, AWB never convinced me). How many of our signings by our "shambolic recruitment" have you been against?

Schneiderlin?
Pogba?
Mikhi?
Sancho?
Maguire?
AWB?
Shaw?
Mata?

There's no denying our recruitment has been crap, but pretending we didn't agree with most signings and that we are defo right regarding Rice and that they club would be idiots not to sign him is seriously lacking in any self awareness. Rice could clearly go either way, we have at least 10 years of evidence of this with sure things like Pogba.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
The discussion I'm in with you isn't about Rice, it is about your own (and many others) hypocrisy and lack of self awareness. You think our recruitment has been shambolic, yet you've openly lauded our signings. Instead of realising that maybe you, and the rest of us, aren't too great at predicting how signings will work out, you remained convinced that "this one is a GREAT player" and that we won't get him due to shambolic recruitment.

I'll ask again, as you clearly thought Maguire and AWB were great signings (I thought Maguire was for what it's worth, AWB never convinced me). How many of our signings by our "shambolic recruitment" have you been against?

Schneiderlin?
Pogba?
Mikhi?
Sancho?
Maguire?
AWB?
Shaw?
Mata?

There's no denying our recruitment has been crap, but pretending we didn't agree with most signings at that we are defo right regarding Rice and that they club would be idiots not to sign him is seriously lacking in any self awareness.
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Yawn
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Everyone said Pogba was a great player, the entire forum thought Schneiderlin was a great player, the entire forum forum said Shaw would be a great player, the entire forum thought Sancho would instantly be one of the best player in the league. What is different about this one?

In fact considering how shambolic you consider our recruitment process, it’s very funny to see that most of the players we’ve signed over the past decade have been welcomed with open arms and declared as great signings at the time they were bought.

How many signings have you been against right from the off?

How can be so sure he won’t be another Schneiderlin, or Pogba, or Maguire?
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So you’ve already dismissed Sancho who has shown of late once he finally got the consistent minutes and forgotten Shaw was brilliant before the leg break and even at times after.

And furthermore many had reservations about bringing Pogba back due to concerns over his attitude. Never mind Maguire who nearly no one wanted.

Rice is a can’t miss. Never mind for a club who literally lacks one reliable holding midfielder and any leadership whatsoever.
 
MvG said:
So you’ve already dismissed Sancho who has shown of late once he finally got the consistent minutes and forgotten Shaw was brilliant before the leg break and even at times after.
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I've neither forgotten about the 3 months Shaw was class before the leg break, nor the 15 months of "meh" prior to that. Nor have I written Sancho off.

MvG said:
Rice is a can’t miss. Never mind for a club who literally lacks one reliable holding midfielder and any leadership whatsoever.
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For 90m of course he can be a miss? How the feck can anyone claim that after Pogba, Di Maria, Mata etc? Why are so many of you lacking self awareness here?

As for the absolutely tosh you spoke about Pogba and "many" having reservations, 80% of the forum were "muppetastic! so happy", less than 6% were "meh". You can guarantee that signing Rice at similar figures wouldn't have an 80% muppetastic approval rating, yes once again "we can't miss". https://www.redcafe.net/threads/paul-pogba-manchester-united-player.420539/
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
For 90m of course he can be a miss? How the feck can anyone claim that after Pogba, Di Maria, Mata etc? Why are so many of you lacking self awareness here?
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Sancho was supposed to cost £120m. No way Rice will cost anywhere near £100m. It will be in the range of £60-75m which will be well worth it. He is a player you can plug into pretty much any system and if you don’t think his replacing Scott McTominay at the base of midfield will change things you need to have a word with yourself.
 
MvG said:
Sancho was supposed to cost £120m. No way Rice will cost anywhere near £100m. It will be in the range of £60-75m which will be well worth it. He is a player you can plug into pretty much any system and if you don’t think his replacing Scott McTominay at the base of midfield will change things you need to have a word with yourself.
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I'm saying it can go either way. Too much "certainty" in our transfers has gone to shit over the past 10 years.

There's no chance he's going for 60 by the way, you're off your tits if you think West Ham would sell for that. We paid Palace 50m for fecking AWB :lol: We paid almost 60m for a bloke in the Portuguese league, we paid 55 for Fred from Donetsk, so erm, have a word with yourself and wake up. If he's as good as you say, why the feck would WHU sell for anything less than silly money?

Bare minimum I'd expect West Ham to agree to is 80m. Will he be better than McTom, of course, will he solve all our problems and be a great signing at 80m.... I'm extremely doubtful, because I was convinced the much more talented Pogba and many others were sure fire things also.
 
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Regulus Arcturus Black said:
I'm saying it can go either way. Too much "certainty" in our transfers has gone to shit over the past 10 years.

There's no chance he's going for 60 by the way, you're off your tits if you think West Ham would sell for that. We paid Palace 50m for fecking AWB :lol:

Bare minimum I'd expect West Ham to agree to is 80m.
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I would say £80m tops. If he decides he wants a move it will be closer to £60m than £100m. Either way we should do it without hesitation.
 
MvG said:
I would say £80m tops. If he decides he wants a move it will be closer to £60m than £100m. Either way we should do it without hesitation.
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Why would WHU sell for anything less than Maguire money if he's as good as you think?

As for the red text, there's that self awareness again. Another in a long line of "sure things". :lol:
 
MvG said:
Why didn’t Sancho go for the touted £120m ? Unless there’s a bidding war which is unlikely it simply won’t happen.
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I don't really Dortmund mentioning 120m, I might be wrong though.
 
Hammondo said:
I don't understand your logic for 60m.
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Likely around £70m, so same price as Sancho. But if West Ham only has one taker with Chelsea now out of the equation who knows. In this climate no one will be spunking £90m on him.
 
He'll be well out of our price range this summer. We need to be a lot shrewder in the market we have so many holes to fill.

About time our supposedly improved recruitment department earned their money.

Absolutely no chance he goes for less than £80m.
 
MvG said:
Why didn’t Sancho go for the touted £120m ? Unless there’s a bidding war which is unlikely it simply won’t happen.
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He was never touted at 120 to be fair (was around 105), and you’re actually proving your own point wrong here.

Sancho in 2020 was just one year into a contract that ran till 2023, Dortmund had no reason to sell for anything but silly money, so they didn’t. I mean, you do realise they could have sold for 75m then instead? But why do that when you can keep him for another year and then sell for 75m.

Rice has a deal till 2024, so why would WHU sell now for anything other than silly money also?

And then next Summer they’d still likely want at least the almost 75m quid we paid for Sancho.

Yet you somehow think they’ll sell for closer to 60?
 
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Regulus Arcturus Black said:
He was never touted at 120 to be fair (was around 105), and you’re actually proving your own point wrong here.

Sancho in 2020 was just one year into a contract that ran till 2023, Dortmund had no reason to sell for anything but silly money, so they didn’t.

Rice has a deal till 2024, so why would WHU sell now for anything other than silly money also?

And then next Summer they’d still likely want at least the almost 75m quid we paid for Sancho.

Yet you somehow think they’ll sell for closer to 60?
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Because he isn’t signing a contract extension and there isn’t a chance in hell they’ll get £75m in the last year of his contract. It’s all media hype just like the £100m+ for Sancho. We were never paying that for Jadon and we won’t do so for Rice either.
 
Rice for £80m plus some shrewd free transfers (Kessie, Kamara, Rudiger, Romagnoli, Mazroaui, Belotti, Brooks etc.) would be a no brainer.
 
He will be £100m because of how badly we need him and the fact teams know how easy it is to fleece us. I mean we paid £50m for Fred from Shakhtar and £50m for Wan-Bissaka with one professional season, why would West Ham allow Rice him to go for anywhere less than double that? And definitely they will not agree to sell him for less than Maguire went for.
 
MvG said:
Because he isn’t signing a contract extension and there isn’t a chance in hell they’ll get £75m in the last year of his contract. It’s all media hype just like the £100m+ for Sancho. We were never paying that for Jadon and we won’t do so for Rice either.
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There is no pressure on West Ham to sell this summer, he still has 3 years on his deal. It would take Maguire money and then some to get him this summer, not happening.
 
Will be interesting to see how he plays tonight against a tough Seville side.

With Chelsea getting sold I can see the chances he comes here increase.
 
Would love to sign him. Young Keano. Him and say Arthur Melo would be an excellent summer’s business in the midfield, with the addition of Hannibal as a serious option.
 
Rozay said:
Would love to sign him. Young Keano. Him and say Arthur Melo would be an excellent summer’s business in the midfield, with the addition of Hannibal as a serious option.
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A young Roy Keane would really be a game changer for this side!

I have always been a fan of Rice, but I think there is one aspect we forget when comparing him to a young Keano; Roy Keane was really quick and «nimble» as a young player. And I think that part of the game made him quite special as a midfielder. Almost a bit like a few of those City-players running rings around Man Utd a few weeks ago.

Rice is certainly not slow, but might come across a bit more «languid». He actually reminds me more of Carrick (or even Fabinho).
 
Only a mad fool would pay £100m for him. He’s worth at best less than half that. Pay through the nose for him and then watch him become another maguire, overpriced and overrated and struggling to reconcile the mismatch between his transfer fee and actual ability.
 
I'd think twice about spunking £100m on a DM even if it was Makelele just entering his pomp. Even if he's about as good as he could be, there's no money left after that to fill the other several holes in the team.

Liverpool got Fabinho for £40m
City got Fernandinho for £35m
Madrid got Casemiro for peanuts
PSG got Verratti for peanuts
Bayern got Kimmich for peanuts

There's just got to be better value somewhere else, and we're not going to compete again until we identify and capitalise on that like Liverpool do now and like we used to. If we carry on getting one stupidly overpriced 'name' player and a bunch of kids every season, we'll just stay on the same fecking hamster wheel we've been on for the last decade.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Everyone said Pogba was a great player, the entire forum thought Schneiderlin was a great player, the entire forum forum said Shaw would be a great player, the entire forum thought Sancho would instantly be one of the best player in the league. What is different about this one?
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The entire forum of the club he currently plays for think he is a great player - without exception
 
el_loco_bielsa said:
Only a mad fool would pay £100m for him. He’s worth at best less than half that. Pay through the nose for him and then watch him become another maguire, overpriced and overrated and struggling to reconcile the mismatch between his transfer fee and actual ability.
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Everyone seems to keep forgetting that he is only 23. The £100m is £10m a year on the basis that he has 10 good years in front of him. If you factor in inflation it is less than that. I don't get all the player comparisons that are constantly made, another Maguire he most definitely is not
 
We are looking at having to bring in a CB, RB, CDM,CM, RW and a ST. Splurging 100m on a DM will be disastrous.

Hope we look into the free agent market this summer. Some decent players we can bring on
 
Righteous Steps said:
Anyone who signs Rice for anything above 50m is mad.
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This is such a laughable comment that I keep seeing.

Clearly you either don't understand what £50m keeps you in today's market, or you haven't watched Rice very much at all.
 
I feel we won’t sign Rice because there’s just so many gaps in the side to fill, and there is a finite amount our board will allow to be spent. Even in our seasons where we ‘back’ the manager, it’s a gross spend of around £100-140m. We’ll have to make do with a second or third choice in defensive midfield.
 
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