Declan Rice

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Floyd said:
I'll say it again, he's the new Roy Keane.
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You still have time to delete this, seriously nobody will notice. I'll delete this reply quickly.

Comparing him to Roy Keane is an absolute travesty :lol: are you actually old enough to remember watching Keane properly?

He isn't and won't ever be good enough to list in the names of the midfield greats.
 
The thing for me about Declan Rice is not that he is good because he suits the way West Ham have to play football -

It's more that West Ham play a certain style because of Rice.

I just love him playing as the "false CB" - allowing a team to play a 3 man defence without actually having a 3rd CB who sticks in the defensive line.

He blocks the central attacks just through his positioning and then when he has the ball he goes on some deadly runs. The whole of West Ham look completely free to attack at times because of Rice's positioning and guarding.

At the age of 22 I hope some vertical passing gets trained in to him then he will be a very good player to watch.

Sure 100 million is too much for him - but ultimately some fans act like this is their own money whilst some simply don't care as we are able to improve.

Greizmann was cried out by 95% of the fan base for over 100 mil - now when it's about an English player it's more of a problem.
 
Adam-Utd said:
It's because us English have been raised on certain 'qualities' of a player.

A fighter, who's big, brave and puts in a hard tackle when possible is something we were always told to appreciate. Rice is a bit of throwback in that regard, he plays like a midfielder from the 80's/90's.

People are getting massively carried away though in this thread. He's a good, solid player but the way West Ham play suits him perfectly. It covers his weaknesses and lets his good points shine.

I'm not convinced he will look anything more than average outside of a defensive, tight knit unit.

Whenever he's played for England he always looks lost. I really don't want a midfielder that specialises in mopping up balls in our own box, and i'm not sure our coaching staff do either.

ESPECIALLY for £100m +
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Couldn’t agree more with your assessment.
 
Adam-Utd said:
You still have time to delete this, seriously nobody will notice. I'll delete this reply quickly.

Comparing him to Roy Keane is an absolute travesty :lol: are you actually old enough to remember watching Keane properly?

He isn't and won't ever be good enough to list in the names of the midfield greats.
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Comparing 22 year old Keane and 22 yr old Rice is a valid comparison. Remember Keane's last season at 22 with Forest they got relegated. Rice at 22 is pushing for top 4 and just came of playing a in Euro final for England. Do i think Rice will be as good as Keane was in his prime, no I don't, but only time will tell. From the great man himself on Rice “I look to where I was when I was 22,” the ex-Man United captain continued. “I think he’s way ahead of me when I was 22."
 
poleglass red said:
Comparing 22 year old Keane and 22 yr old Rice is a valid comparison. Remember Keane's last season at 22 with Forest they got relegated. Rice at 22 is pushing for top 4 and just came of playing a in Euro final for England. Do i think Rice will be as good as Keane was in his prime, no I don't, but only time will tell. From the great man himself on Rice “I look to where I was when I was 22,” the ex-Man United captain continued. “I think he’s way ahead of me when I was 22."
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Keane had way more about him in an attacking sense though. You could say Rice looks like more of a seasoned pro and cool head than Keane did in the way that he's marshalling the defence at such a young age, but Keane was a much more exciting player, even if he won't admit it himself.
 
He would be a huge upgrade on McTominay but it would take most of the transfer budget to sign him.
 
lloyd2wayne said:
It’s crazy how United fans rate him so highly. Mostly England fans? maybe, because no one outside of England rates him just like it was for Mr. Grealish. Wow, like there’s no midfielder in the world that can do what he does and more.

We have been here before with Maguire, Wan Bissaka, Grealish, even Shaw till the last year and has gone back to shit this season. I’m not going to get fooled by this one. He’s good and that’s it.
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Posts like these are so 2020. Declan Rice, this season, is genuinely one of the best midfielders in the league. Eye test, whoscored stats etc. - he comes out very well in every barometer.

It’s one thing to say that the value that West Ham would hold out for is just not worth it. But at this point it simply cannot be denied that Declan Rice’s trajectory and progression year by year since his breakout has been anything other than upward.

I don’t think we’ll sign him though. I think Rangnick will look elsewhere if he’s still in charge, likewise if it’s someone like Ten Hag.
 
as much as I'd think he's be a great signing, I don't see it happening to be honest. We know the fee West Ham will be seeking and I don't see us paying that. I think Rangnick wants to upgrade in a few areas and Rice would use up too much of his budget
 
Adam-Utd said:
You still have time to delete this, seriously nobody will notice. I'll delete this reply quickly.

Comparing him to Roy Keane is an absolute travesty :lol: are you actually old enough to remember watching Keane properly?

He isn't and won't ever be good enough to list in the names of the midfield greats.
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It was a bit tongue in cheek, but I really really rate Rice. Remember Keane played for Forest when he was Rice’s age, and Rice has already played a Euro final.

And yes, I remember my favourite United player ever Roy Keane vividly. I’m 44.
 
Like a lot of others, it’s taken me a good while to really get on board with Rice, but he’s actually just very, very good. Lots of the usual anti-English rhetoric is going against him, too.

His defensive work made me take notice during the Euros and he’s continued to get better and better as the season has gone on. The fee for him would be eye-watering and probably not at all reasonable, but if he’s available in the summer then the club should move heaven and earth to bring him in.
 
Bebestation said:
The thing for me about Declan Rice is not that he is good because he suits the way West Ham have to play football -

It's more that West Ham play a certain style because of Rice.

I just love him playing as the "false CB" - allowing a team to play a 3 man defence without actually having a 3rd CB who sticks in the defensive line.

He blocks the central attacks just through his positioning and then when he has the ball he goes on some deadly runs. The whole of West Ham look completely free to attack at times because of Rice's positioning and guarding.

At the age of 22 I hope some vertical passing gets trained in to him then he will be a very good player to watch.

Sure 100 million is too much for him - but ultimately some fans act like this is their own money whilst some simply don't care as we are able to improve.

Greizmann was cried out by 95% of the fan base for over 100 mil - now when it's about an English player it's more of a problem.
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Agree with a lot of what you post but I think you're somewhat misrepresenting the argument people make against spending 100 mil on Rice. It has little to do with Englishness, 'crying out' or acting like it's their own money. Any time such a sum of money is spent on one player it's gonna be scrutinized, there's no need to look for an ulterior motive.
 
Floyd said:
It was a bit tongue in cheek, but I really really rate Rice. Remember Keane played for Forest when he was Rice’s age, and Rice has already played a Euro final.

And yes, I remember my favourite United player ever Roy Keane vividly. I’m 44.
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poleglass red said:
Comparing 22 year old Keane and 22 yr old Rice is a valid comparison. Remember Keane's last season at 22 with Forest they got relegated. Rice at 22 is pushing for top 4 and just came of playing a in Euro final for England. Do i think Rice will be as good as Keane was in his prime, no I don't, but only time will tell. From the great man himself on Rice “I look to where I was when I was 22,” the ex-Man United captain continued. “I think he’s way ahead of me when I was 22."
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Players are playing earlier than ever, a 22 year old back then was akin to an 18 year old now. If you aren't already playing at the top at 22 these days, you're seen as being over the hill. I suspect Keane is being very humble, but once he joined United he reached a level not many have or will before. If Rice even gets close to half of his influence he will be a great player.

Now don't get me wrong I can appreciate what Rice is good at, but for me he just doesn't have that spark that the best players do. He's already 'the man' in his team yet plays a very limited role.

IMO he won't ever be more than water carrier. Yes that is something he's very good at, but there's plenty of others out there that can do the same for a lot less money.
 
Bebestation said:
The thing for me about Declan Rice is not that he is good because he suits the way West Ham have to play football -

It's more that West Ham play a certain style because of Rice.
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West Ham play the same way whether he's in the team or not.

Sit back, keep it tight and use the pace of Antonio and Bowen to counter.

He and Soucek have a great partnership and both work hard to plug the gaps, but it's much easier to do it with 3 centre backs behind you, and no space to run in behind.

When he plays for England he doesn't get that luxury. Who else remembers in the Euro final when he tried to press up higher and got absolutely span by Chiesa? that's more of a sign of things to come in a more progressive team.

 
Adam-Utd said:
West Ham play the same way whether he's in the team or not.

Sit back, keep it tight and use the pace of Antonio and Bowen to counter.

He and Soucek have a great partnership and both work hard to plug the gaps, but it's much easier to do it with 3 centre backs behind you, and no space to run in behind.

When he plays for England he doesn't get that luxury. Who else remembers in the Euro final when he tried to press up higher and got absolutely span by Chiesa? that's more of a sign of things to come in a more progressive team.

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It's not counter attacking per se It's more the freedom he gives the rest of the team to attack no matter how that is decide to be done, no matter who decides to do it.

Rice's off the ball ability is magnificent - he is in the right place at the right time before the attack has started which really stops the opposition attacking at ease. This is because for me, Rice is a proactive defensive CDM rather than being a Reactive one that I see much more on the transfer market.

The guy is not exactly running for the ball as soon as it enters our side of the pitch. Instead he has already read the opposition attack and found out the best place to simply just be there an block the path to. Opposition realise that they have to change the attacking lane because of Rice perfectly in their way and as they then decide to move he has analysed the next dangerous position and moving their after.

It really kills off an attack whilst giving the rest of his team mates time to comeback in to the right defensive positions - or if that's not needed, stick around the best attacking positions. This is why I want him here because I believe no matter what tactic we play - he gives the freedom to the rest of the team to go do their thing.

And I'm not saying I'm right because I know many people disagree - but I was not a fan of Rice before the Euros. Then I started noticing how England were hardly attacked as the Euro's went on except in the final vs Italy. Whilst that can't be put all on Declan Rice, I felt he was a big part of it.

This is when I started watching West Ham to see if it was actually Rice and then convinced my self that I was right - Rice stops the attack happening. Ever since then I watch him for fun and want him here.
 
@Bebestation

And I agree with you that he's good at snuffing out the danger, but as I mentioned before context is key here. It's much easier to do that in a 5 metre squad box of space with 3 centre backs behind you, than pressed up in their half with lots of room behind to move into.

Anyway, we can discuss it to death and both won't change our minds - I don't see Rice going anywhere for a few years at least.
 
Adam-Utd said:
@Bebestation

And I agree with you that he's good at snuffing out the danger, but as I mentioned before context is key here. It's much easier to do that in a 5 metre squad box of space with 3 centre backs behind you, than pressed up in their half with lots of room behind to move into.

Anyway, we can discuss it to death and both won't change our minds - I don't see Rice going anywhere for a few years at least.
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I get that but this 3 at the back is not a regular thing is it?

The last PL games I've seen is with a back 4?
 
Bebestation said:
It's not counter attacking per se It's more the freedom he gives the rest of the team to attack no matter how that is decide to be done, no matter who decides to do it.

Rice's off the ball ability is magnificent - he is in the right place at the right time before the attack has started which really stops the opposition attacking at ease. This is because for me, Rice is a proactive defensive CDM rather than being a Reactive one that I see much more on the transfer market.

The guy is not exactly running for the ball as soon as it enters our side of the pitch. Instead he has already read the opposition attack and found out the best place to simply just be there an block the path to. Opposition realise that they have to change the attacking lane because of Rice perfectly in their way and as they then decide to move he has analysed the next dangerous position and moving their after.

It really kills off an attack whilst giving the rest of his team mates time to comeback in to the right defensive positions - or if that's not needed, stick around the best attacking positions. This is why I want him here because I believe no matter what tactic we play - he gives the freedom to the rest of the team to go do their thing.

And I'm not saying I'm right because I know many people disagree - but I was not a fan of Rice before the Euros. Then I started noticing how England were hardly attacked as the Euro's went on except in the final vs Italy. Whilst that can't be put all on Declan Rice, I felt he was a big part of it.

This is when I started watching West Ham to see if it was actually Rice and then convinced my self that I was right - Rice stops the attack happening. Ever since then I watch him for fun and want him here.
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I haven't watched anywhere near enough to really have an opinion of Rice, but the way you described him here just reminded me how Carrick defended (except you make Rice out to be even better). It's the kind of thing that easily gets overlooked and isn't really shown in stats, but Carrick stopped so many attacks against us simply by his positioning. Counter-attacks in particular would regularly grind to a halt as he forced the ball-carrier to slow down and pass the ball sideways or even backwards as he cut off the most dangerous options, and it gave the rest of our players time to get back into position. It was probably the most overlooked part of Carrick's game IMO.
 
Bebestation said:
I get that but this 3 at the back is not a regular thing is it?

The last PL games I've seen is with a back 4?
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It varies on who they are playing, last night against Tottenham they played a back 3.
 
MadDogg said:
I haven't watched anywhere near enough to really have an opinion of Rice, but the way you described him here just reminded me how Carrick defended (except you make Rice out to be even better). It's the kind of thing that easily gets overlooked and isn't really shown in stats, but Carrick stopped so many attacks against us simply by his positioning. Counter-attacks in particular would regularly grind to a halt as he forced the ball-carrier to slow down and pass the ball sideways or even backwards as he cut off the most dangerous options, and it gave the rest of our players time to get back into position. It was probably the most overlooked part of Carrick's game IMO.
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I don't like mentioning Carricks name because people are going to look at his passing first; but your right -

The players I noticed at United who did this is Carrick and Daley Blind. They don't necessarily have the ability to chase and run after players so they have to read the attack before it happens.

It's great to watch Rice do it at the age of 22 and providing that defensive stability to the rest of the team.

I'd say if your ever bored one day to watch Rice for West ham and see how he defensively plays, its great to watch. On the ball he is best at going on deep runs, his passing game can be at times good and at times be a bit too much of a safety first/side pass thought which I hope gets better and more creative as his grows.
 
I think his development this season has been so good that I'm not sure if his remaining doubters are even convincing themselves.

If Rice was on the market for a sensible figure all the top clubs in England would want him. There's no doubt about it. He's already been linked with many. He has everything you would want in a young, modern midfielder.

But that's the problem, at least for us. He's not the cherry on the cake, at this point our performance is so bad in many areas that we don't even have the cake. I just can't see RR advising that an entire budget is spent on this man. He's going to use his contacts, his knowledge of the game to ensure we become a balanced team.
 
Decent of course, but way overhyped by the British media. Rice will want to go to Chelsea anyway, much like Phillips will want to stay at Leeds unless they get relegated. But if we could choose between the two, Phillips would suit us perfectly. In all honesty, it was Phillips who stole the show between the two at the Euros.
 
lex talionis said:
Decent of course, but way overhyped by the British media. Rice will want to go to Chelsea anyway, much like Phillips will want to stay at Leeds unless they get relegated. But if we could choose between the two, Phillips would suit us perfectly. In all honesty, it was Phillips who stole the show between the two at the Euros.
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Any examples of this?
 
lex talionis said:
Decent of course, but way overhyped by the British media. Rice will want to go to Chelsea anyway, much like Phillips will want to stay at Leeds unless they get relegated. But if we could choose between the two, Phillips would suit us perfectly. In all honesty, it was Phillips who stole the show between the two at the Euros.
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Overhyped?

I've never seen him overhyped by the media.

All I see is great performances this season backed up by steady growth last season.

The guy would be great for us, but clearly a lot of people on here are suffering sine kind of Rice blindness or just simply in denial over how good he is.

No one in outer midfield comes close to him right now.
 
Declan Rice and Bellingham are the perfect partnership for a United midfield and its not impossible to think we can sign both in 2 transfer windows.
 
If we were going to sign him the time was last summer when they wanted Lingard so a swap deal plus cash was possible. I suppose with him being club captain and having just played a significant role at the Euros made it tough though. With West Ham pushing for Europe now I don't see them selling. He'll be priced out of a move for a couple years then end up at Chelsea who he loves, would time perfectly as a replacement for Kante too, plus the option of him playing in a back 3 if Tuchel is still there.
 
Satsuma United said:
Declan Rice and Bellingham are the perfect partnership for a United midfield and its not impossible to think we can sign both in 2 transfer windows.
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This is what I’ve said for a while, Rice and Bellingham or Rice and De Jong would be perfect for us in midfield and if we move on Pogba, Matic, VDB, Pereira and Mata all on in the summer we’d have plenty of room to bring Rice and Bellingham or Rice and De Jong in alongside McTominay, Fred, Mejbri and Garner.
 
Crap against Southampton. They got in behind him time and time again, was at fault for 1 of their goals.

It's amazing how nobody mentions these things, only about how great he is and what an upgrade he would be.

If Mctominay made those errors he'd be shipped off by the fanbase in minutes. :D
 
choccy77 said:
Overhyped?

I've never seen him overhyped by the media.

All I see is great performances this season backed up by steady growth last season.

The guy would be great for us, but clearly a lot of people on here are suffering sine kind of Rice blindness or just simply in denial over how good he is.

No one in outer midfield comes close to him right now.
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Yeah right. Stop with this stupid British hype, just stop it. He’s not better than Jorginho, Henderson, Thiago, Rodri this season alone. Basmati Rice :lol:

Another English hype whom will be forgotten in a few years like Dele Ali, Maddison, Grealish, Maguire. I will rather keep our midfield than buy Rice for 100 million.Ewwww
 
If it's really true that De Jong is available, it seems like a no brainer that he's the one we should pursue. He'd be perfect.

I've been a Rice sceptic, but the way he's been playing this season is starting to win me over. Maybe not at 100m though.
 
Adam-Utd said:
Crap against Southampton. They got in behind him time and time again, was at fault for 1 of their goals.

It's amazing how nobody mentions these things, only about how great he is and what an upgrade he would be.

If Mctominay made those errors he'd be shipped off by the fanbase in minutes. :D
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One poor game doesn't over write the good season he is having though.
 
I trust Ralfs opinion on him. If he thinks he's good enough then he is.

As much as he might not want to just yet the manager has to think of a formation that we will play for the long term and then advise on the players to sign for that formation.

Forget 4222. When it's a 4231 or 433 we can sign the appropriate midfielders. If Pogba leaves as expected then there isn't a midfielder other than Fernandes who should be starting in a 4231 or 433 midfield.

None of McTominay, Fred or Matic have what it takes all round to be a CDM or CM for us. Fred and McTominay can't pass and Matic hasn't got the legs.

In my opinion Fred and Matic should be sacrificed if both have to and we need to sign a CDM and a CM.

If Pogba leaves we should be signing two CMs and a CDM. Anything less will kill us next season too.
 
West Ham with another convincing 4-1 away win at watford… without Rice in midfield. Noble replaced him.

Perhaps his influence on this team isn’t as big as people are stating?
 
Adam-Utd said:
West Ham with another convincing 4-1 away win at watford… without Rice in midfield. Noble replaced him.

Perhaps his influence on this team isn’t as big as people are stating?
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I don't think anyone has said they're a one-man team? They are allowed to win football matches in his absence, they're a solid well-drilled team.

But it's very clear what Rice gives them - drive, organisation, defensive structure. Excellent player and would be ideal for United - if it weren't for the price.
 
lloyd2wayne said:
Yeah right. Stop with this stupid British hype, just stop it. He’s not better than Jorginho, Henderson, Thiago, Rodri this season alone. Basmati Rice :lol:

Another English hype whom will be forgotten in a few years like Dele Ali, Maddison, Grealish, Maguire. I will rather keep our midfield than buy Rice for 100 million.Ewwww
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Feels like you have a bit of an issue with the English/British? Also, if you can't see that he's better than Henderson at present then there's no hope for you.

Also...'Basmati Rice :lol: '? Grow up.
 
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