Matic is old , unfortunately. Fred and Pogba are ALWAYS on the wrong side of the offensive player. I will take a strong defensive midfielder that is always in the proper postion. You can decide on what thats worth.
Declan Rice
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He is the player that gives England the shape.
I think Phillips can do a similar job that Rice does as a DM, but Rice cant play how Phillips played today. Granted, Rice does an excellent job defensively, but is it good enough for Man United when team sit back and he has to take over a more offensive and progressive role in terms of passing and going forward?
I'd agree with all of that except my comment was that I expected more than just disciplined positioning. The back four had a little trouble playing out and I don't think he offered enough angles or more varied passing positions. His passes mostly went back when it came from. A few more turns, a bit of ball carrying etc was needed. After the first 25 mins and Croatia started applying more pressure, I don't think he was anything more than just a cog. That's the only criticism I would have as you can't argue with the end result.
It was very conservative and risk adverse, which paid off today and everyone including the manager did well.
How do you figure? Will Liverpool or Bayern press less because we have different centre backs? The best teams will still try and box us in knowing at least 2/3rds of the back 6 is uncomfortable playing out.
Rice is a replacement for Matic, and he'll do the job Matic did very ably. However, should United have even had a midfielder like Matic? Matic was bought to fit the needs of Mourinho's style. That isn't how United are currently trying to play. We also don't have the luxury of bypassing the press by going long to Fellaini.
The #6 we should be looking at should be modelled on Carrick not Matic. I don't think Rice is close enough to what's needed to make our midfield work for our front four. I don't see him playing those early forward passes into Bruno or the wide players to catch opponents out of shape.
Still not totally sure about this lad on the ball. I think that's the other half of it that is very important. It's not as if when we play Pogba plus somebody else we have an abundance of positive passing from deeper areas, we still struggle. How is that less of an issue just because we have Rice? That's the question floating around my head the more I see him. I do think he'd give us a stable presence but I just wonder how we'd actually look creatively and in retaining the ball. It will be interesting to see how he looks in this tournament.
Matic is much better on the ball than you make out, he was never just a ball winner or defensive shield, he's very tidy in possession, has excellent ball control, and looks to progress play either with his passing or carrying the ball forward.
Did you ever watch Matic at his Peak he may not have been in Carrick's class when it comes to passing range but he was fairly press resistant and was quite comfortable in tight areas due to his ability to shield the ball as well as decent dribbling ability ,while not being slouch on ball either.
Rice is pretty good young player who has ample room for growth and if can hit Peak Matic's level he would be brilliant for us.
Just a player you get to rate when he doesn’t play the match for your team.
Hoping it happens on a minor tournament match to see the difference with and without him.
Hoping it happens on a minor tournament match to see the difference with and without him.
You make Matic sound like Eric Dier.
Same role in the team. Not saying he’s as good as makelele.
Limited footballer. Don't need him.
He is very good defensively, its just we would need someone next to him to distribute the ball for him, and not someone like Pogba, but someone who knows how to CM.
Spot on. Kept it simple and tactically disciplined, allowing the likes of Phillips to thrive. Exactly what we need.
I can be happy with that, but we need a new player next to him though, who can do the thriving.
Can imagine us signing him, then people moaning at how limited he is.
Basically Schneiderlin again.
Basically Schneiderlin again.
Quiet and controlled, does a solid if unspectacular job in there.
Because Maguire is one of the best progressive carries CB’s in the league, and the reason Liverpool succeded so well with the press was that he wasnt playing. All they needed to do was to lock down Shaw and we had no way of getting the ball out.
And both Varane and Torres are very good progressers. So, in that Liverpool scenario Rice could simply drop down and let one of them carry or pass the ball out.
Maguire is a good passer, but hes horrible under pressure because of how slow and clumsy he can be.
Don’t we already have that in Pogba and Bruno? He can relieve them of their defensive responsibilities. Even McSauce who is much better driving forward with the ball in a box to box role would benefit from having the defensive stability, tactical discipline, playing it simple and covering that Rice offers. Fred is far too erratic and careless in possession for any of our other midfielders to feel comfortable, and Matic is shot. Rice would be the perfect upgrade in my opinion.
In a nutshell.
Just sayin...
Which defensive midfielder would you suggest as an upgrade to Matic and as someone who would bring out the best in Bruno/ Pogba and McTominay?Sounds like 80 million worth
Phone Moyes offer jlingz
I think people are kidding themselves if they think even a prime Matic, who was a miles better DM at everything than Rice would suddenly make the Bruno/Pogba thing just “click”.
His job as to play as the 3rd CB in possession. Move into a position to be available for a pass from the CBs when they're pressed and he did that perfectly.
He wasn't as visible as Philips, but that's because you need a player at the back when the other CDM is going around the pitch for the tackles - basically McT to the Fred. Is he 80m worth? No, atleast not if you're basing on today's game as he didn't show his passing, tackling and he wasn't tested as much if we're being honest. But what he did show was composure, intelligence with positioning and maturity and ability to keep it simple - all vital traits for a DM
He wasn't as visible as Philips, but that's because you need a player at the back when the other CDM is going around the pitch for the tackles - basically McT to the Fred. Is he 80m worth? No, atleast not if you're basing on today's game as he didn't show his passing, tackling and he wasn't tested as much if we're being honest. But what he did show was composure, intelligence with positioning and maturity and ability to keep it simple - all vital traits for a DM
You cannot have 1 player doing the work in midfield, also Pogba is not capable at running a game, as seen in the Villarreal game.
Why didn't that happen against Villarreal then? Just like multiple games before? Nothing about that game said, we need decent enough on the ball, keep it safe and help shield the defence.
Given that his strengths are defending, and that his limitations are on the ball, and given that he was originally a CB who West Ham started to play in midfield because he's better than their other midfield options...
... Is it outrageous to suggest that a top side would consider buying him and playing him as a CB... I know Chelsea were rumoured to want him last season to play in a back 3...
... Is it outrageous to suggest that a top side would consider buying him and playing him as a CB... I know Chelsea were rumoured to want him last season to play in a back 3...
No top club would buy him as a pure CB probably, would the fact that he could play there if needed adds something to his value for sure. Also because he can drop down there easily in games if CB’s are progressive.
I thought he was great, especially at his interceptions. He's a great defensive shield.
Someone who's cheaper than 80 million and just as good, which isn't hard due to Rice's clear limitations.
Crikey, what are our clubs scouts doing if they cant find a more reasonable alternative.
Yep. You cant have a sitter in a 4-2-3-1 unless you want the player between Rice and Bruno to be isolated and have your press be non existent. Rice will also be a lightening rod to the press when trying to play it out.
He played the destroyer role well, but it would only work in a 4-3-3 and we don't play that way.
Unless Ole wants to move to a 4-3-3 permanently (which I don't see happening) then he's just another limited ball winner.
People will be calling him Schneiderlin within 3-4 games.
Unless Ole wants to move to a 4-3-3 permanently (which I don't see happening) then he's just another limited ball winner.
People will be calling him Schneiderlin within 3-4 games.
Frenkie De Jong, now that's a midfielder and the type of central figure we should be searching for with similar attributes/characteristics.
The problem against Villareal wasn't that? The problem often times has been a lack of balance meaning we can't use Pogba in midfield. Only chance of us being able to use him in midfield is with a DM like Rice. It's literally not possible otherwise.
So many posters absolutely kidding themselves. Carrick with Pogba, playing him balls inbetween the lines, yeah that might work, fecking Declan Rice though… Pogba will be constantly dropping too deep to add some quality.
If big money is to be spent in midfield, it should be on a player who can dictate a game.
Rice isn't Kante.
Different players but Rice is quality as a holding mid. I'm skeptical on if it'd work anyway, but it'd be the only chance at it working as Rice would cover and sweep up behind Pogba and is fine on the ball to spread it around to the more creative/progressive players.
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