Declan Rice

[Don't Kill Bill]

If Rice is bought at 90 million pounds to replace McT and play with Pogba we just dropped the best midfielder we had in the final to try to get the best out of the player playing along side of him who wasn't as good.

That is crazy logic.

 

[BallonDor99]

People just have to accept that if you buy a young English player, there are going to be consequences to the price tag.

 

[MadDogg]

If Rice is bought at 90 million pounds to replace McT and play with Pogba we just dropped the best midfielder we had in the final to try to get the best out of the player playing along side of him who wasn't as good.

That is crazy logic.

Basing anything on one match is crazy logic.

I don't even want Pogba playing in that position, but you are talking like that was McTominay's normal level. In reality he plays like that two or three times a season, the rest of the time he's normally very average. I'd still have him there ahead of Pogba most of the time but not because of a one off match.

 

[bosnian_red]

If Rice is bought at 90 million pounds to replace McT and play with Pogba we just dropped the best midfielder we had in the final to try to get the best out of the player playing along side of him who wasn't as good.

That is crazy logic.

Not really the point. McTominay is a very good squad player but that doesn't mean he should start every game. He isn't a defensive midfielder nor is a creative or controlling midfielder. We're unlikely to have a balanced or good enough midfield with him in it because he doesn't really provide enough on a game to game basis. He's capable of big performances with his determination, but thats not an every week starter.

Declan Rice is a very good defensive midfielder. Just look at yesterday the impact City missed by leaving out a DM, and what Chelsea had in the best defensive midfielder over the past 5-10 years. We need a defensive midfielder desperately to solidify our midfield, regardless of if Pogba is the right partner to him. I'm not sure if Rice is the right guy for it, but we'd be a lot closer than we are now if we had a proper DM to solidify everything back there. A big problem for us is how easily our midfield gets bypassed. Rice alone helps that a lot.

 

[OrcaFat]

Does Rice remind you of Roy?

He actually does remind me of Keane.

(of course even Roy said Rice reminds him of himself)

They are quite similar in a lot of ways. I think it hasn’t been considered enough what a great leader Rice is. He plays with a similar controlled aggression that also reminds me of Roy (although Roy sometimes lost control!).

It’s not necessary to compare their overall quality. But the type of player Roy was, people would complain he’s nothing special if around today...

 

[croadyman]

He actually does remind me of Keane.

(of course even Roy said Rice reminds him of himself)

They are quite similar in a lot of ways. I think it hasn’t been considered enough what a great leader Rice is. He plays with a similar controlled aggression that also reminds me of Roy (although Roy sometimes lost control!).

It’s not necessary to compare their overall quality. But the type of player Roy was, people would complain he’s nothing special if around today...

My only concerns are is he able to make those break the line passes occasionally, obviously wouldn't expect the same level as someone playing in a CM/AM role and would he sign for us only because Chelsea aren't interested in him

 

[eire-red]

For the price tag quoted, you'd want Kante and Modric rolled into one. All the clips of Rice show a lot of passion, aggression and tackling etc. But when you watch West Ham play for 90 minutes, does he control the entire game? Because that's what you need when you are spending that much on a midfielder.

I'm not saying he can or can't, but based on the relatively small sample size I've seen, he doesn't. Pogba can't do that either, and neither can Bruno. They both give the ball away too often. So I don't see a midfield trio of Rice, Bruno and Pogba having any balance.

We need a CB, we also seem to be chasing Sancho again this year, and we desperately need a holding midfielder. I don't see how we do all that business, and sign Rice for the money quoted. And if we do sign him, does he take us to the next level?

 

[OrcaFat]

My only concerns are is he able to make those break the line passes occasionally, obviously wouldn't expect the same level as someone playing in a CM/AM role and would he sign for us only because Chelsea aren't interested in him

Yeah, valid concern.

Roy nearly always passed forwards even if 10 or 15 yards, he had this relentlessness about him, like boxer who always comes forward. He was always moving, adjusting his position and it kept everyone else on their toes. I do think Rice can eventually have that kind of influence but whether he can also bring a bit of Carrick into his game, who knows. Would become quite a player, if so, of course.

 

[Sandikan]

90m on Rice?

Move along, nothing to see here.

If we shell out anywhere near that, it won't be on a Rice.

 

[golden_blunder]

He actually does remind me of Keane.

(of course even Roy said Rice reminds him of himself)

They are quite similar in a lot of ways. I think it hasn’t been considered enough what a great leader Rice is. He plays with a similar controlled aggression that also reminds me of Roy (although Roy sometimes lost control!).

It’s not necessary to compare their overall quality. But the type of player Roy was, people would complain he’s nothing special if around today...

That’s my point. They’d be questioning his passing. I saw someone today say we don’t need a goal scoring midfielder we need a passing midfielder. Could have sworn goals win games

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

People just have to accept that if you buy a young English player, there are going to be consequences to the price tag.

I've never understood the idea that young Englsh players go for more money when there are players like Pepe, Felix, Havertz, Dembele, Jovic, etc that all went for way more than they were worth.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

If Rice is bought at 90 million pounds to replace McT and play with Pogba we just dropped the best midfielder we had in the final to try to get the best out of the player playing along side of him who wasn't as good.

That is crazy logic.

When you look at it like that, it does sound crazy. However, one could argue that Pogba would be better next to Rice, who is more defensive-minded than McTominay.

Actually, McTominay got forward more than Pogba in the final, as Pogba was tasked with starting our build play. This is reflected by the number of passes that were made, with Pogba making 87 and McTominay making 58.

Oftentimes, when McTominay plays, he doesn't get involved in the build-up phase that much.

If we were to sign Rice, not only could it be beneficial for Pogba but McTominay, too.

You look at the role Soucek plays for West Ham next to Rice and I could see McTominay being a very similar player. I mean, you could argue that he already is.

Whilst I'd want more of a ball player, if we were to get Rice, we'd have more of a balanced midfielder, giving us the options of:

Rice (defensive)
Fred (defensive)
Pogba (box to box)
McTominay (box to box)

I actually think Fred should be box to box too but with Matic looking like his time at United could be coming to an end, that would potentially only leave Rice as our only defence-minded midfielder.

 

[Banana Republic]

I wouldn't necessarily include Pogba in these thoughts, as there's a good chance he'll be gone, if not this summer, almost certainly next year when his contract runs out and he can walk for free.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

When you look at it like that, it does sound crazy. However, one could argue that Pogba would be better next to Rice, who is more defensive-minded than McTominay.

Actually, McTominay got forward more than Pogba in the final, as Pogba was tasked with starting our build play. This is reflected by the number of passes that were made, with Pogba making 87 and McTominay making 58.

Oftentimes, when McTominay plays, he doesn't get involved in the build-up phase that much.

If we were to sign Rice, not only could it be beneficial for Pogba but McTominay, too.

You look at the role Soucek plays for West Ham next to Rice and I could see McTominay being a very similar player. I mean, you could argue that he already is.

Whilst I'd want more of a ball player, if we were to get Rice, we'd have more of a balanced midfielder, giving us the options of:

Rice (defensive)
Fred (defensive)
Pogba (box to box)
McTominay (box to box)

I actually think Fred should be box to box too but with Matic looking like his time at United could be coming to an end, that would potentially only leave Rice as our only defence-minded midfielder.

Rice doesn’t play a standard defensive role though.

 

[Danillaco]

Wonder of Rice holding will be key to unlock McTominay potential. Was kinda impressed with him at Villarreal. With less defensive responsability could he be more than we thought?

 

[Judas]

Wonder of Rice holding will be key to unlock McTominay potential. Was kinda impressed with him at Villarreal. With less defensive responsability could he be more than we thought?

Potentially. He's certainly not a defensive mid, never has been, and if we want to see the best of him, never will be. I still think he's a squad player at best, but thats not a bad thing. He did play well in the second half of the final, but he probably looked better due to just how tragically subdued everyone else was apart from Cavani .

 

[Inigo Montoya]

Potentially. He's certainly not a defensive mid, never has been, and if we want to see the best of him, never will be. I still think he's a squad player at best, but thats not a bad thing. He did play well in the second half of the final, but he probably looked better due to just how tragically subdued everyone else was apart from Cavani .

This.
I’d dispute the latter part as it’s being a touch reductive about him. He took responsibility when others froze rather than looking good because others were bad.
Like Chelsea last night, if 5 others played with the same intent, we’d have won in a canter

 

[Judas]

Yeah I don't mean to take away from his effort as it was obvious, it was the best we'd seen him look for ages, so at least he was on it when it counted.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

Rice doesn’t play a standard defensive role though.

He's the more defence minded player in the pivot though, just like Keane was when he and Scholes played together.

 

[Andy_Cole]

Is he potentially as good as Kante?

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

Wonder of Rice holding will be key to unlock McTominay potential. Was kinda impressed with him at Villarreal. With less defensive responsability could he be more than we thought?

He's very going forward. I think if he was given more license, we'd see double figures in the league from him.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

He's the more defence minded player in the pivot though, just like Keane was when he and Scholes played together.

Defence minded with a licence to attack qnd bomb forward.
Bissouma is the one that holds his position far more in front of the back 4. If we did have Rice, someone would need to cover his runs

 

[Inigo Montoya]

Is he potentially as good as Kante?

Kante is better doing the job he’s doing right now. He struggled when Sarri tried to play him as a box to box. He was clueless and was caught out of position many times. He also got injured running around so much

 

[Andy_Cole]

Kante is better doing the job he’s doing right now. He struggled when Sarri tried to play him as a box to box. He was clueless and was caught out of position many times. He also got injured running around so much

Well yeh that was bizarre by Sarri and Lamps.

 

[Adnan]

I'm gonna have to conduct some @LuckyScout78 scouting during the Euros. There seems to be a split of opinion regarding Rice.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

Defence minded with a licence to attack qnd bomb forward.
Bissouma is the one that holds his position far more in front of the back 4. If we did have Rice, someone would need to cover his runs

He plays in a double pivot. Of course he will get forward if the opportunity is there. Midfielders should be able to dovetail. However, if you compare Rice to Soucek, you'd say Rice was the more defence minded out the two, hence why we see Soucek given so much licence to push forward.

I also disagree with your assessment on Bissouma. A player who also gets forward when the opportunity arises, but more often than not, he'll be the one staying back like Rice.

Think Ole will like both options, simply because I dont think he wants a holding player but a player who can play in a pivot with better defensive attributes than the ones we currently have.

 

[croadyman]

Defence minded with a licence to attack qnd bomb forward.
Bissouma is the one that holds his position far more in front of the back 4. If we did have Rice, someone would need to cover his runs

Does seem strange we aren't in the race for him considering Brighton would sell for less than West Ham

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

Kante is better doing the job he’s doing right now. He struggled when Sarri tried to play him as a box to box. He was clueless and was caught out of position many times. He also got injured running around so much

The exact same role he plays now. Different systems mind, but nevertheless, he played as a number 8 under Sarri in a three and is doing it now for Tuchel in a pivot.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

He plays in a double pivot. Of course he will get forward if the opportunity is there. Midfielders should be able to dovetail. However, if you compare Rice to Soucek, you'd say Rice was the more defence minded out the two, hence why we see Soucek given so much licence to push forward.

I also disagree with your assessment on Bissouma. A player who also gets forward when the opportunity arises, but more often than not, he'll be the one staying back like Rice.

Think Ole will like both options, simply because I dont think he wants a holding player but a player who can play in a pivot with better defensive attributes than the ones we currently have.

Basically you’ve just agreed with me on Bissouma.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

Basically you’ve just agreed with me on Bissouma.

And basically you disagreed about my assessment of Rice for nothing because I said they play a similar role, in that they are the more defence minded midfielders in a pivot but not strictly holding midfielders.

 

[VanHaal'sRedArmy]

I guess they can kiss Lingard goodbye then. Young English talent comes at a premium these days.

 

[SATA]

This signing scares me if we are going to pay 70-90M out of this summer’s budget

 

[hobbers]

This signing scares me if we are going to pay 70-90M out of this summer’s budget

Another AWB signing.

Paying double their worth purely for their nationality.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

If Rice is bought at 90 million pounds to replace McT and play with Pogba we just dropped the best midfielder we had in the final to try to get the best out of the player playing along side of him who wasn't as good.

That is crazy logic.

I get what you are saying but we need to think rationally the purpose of this signing and I can think some reasonable logic. One, Matic shouldn't be starting for us anymore means he's not even good enough to play when McFred is not available, we lost 6/11 games when Matic was starter, not coincidence may be we want long term replacement. Two, we don't have a DM except Matic, may be this is what we want to add in our squad so we can play Fred, McT, VDB more in their no 8 role. And last thing is that we don't really know whether Pogba will stay or no given he has only 1 year left in his contract. 80m or 90m or 70m investment on Rice is just better investment than 40m on 29 years old Matic, there is long term value in it, if we can afford him then so be it.

 

[Dante]

Another AWB signing.

Paying double their worth purely for their nationality.

Why would we pay double for a Congolese player?

 

[Inigo Montoya]

Another AWB signing.

Paying double their worth purely for their nationality.

That’s absurd

 

[2 man midfield]

I reckon that fee could get N’didi

 

[SATA]

Another AWB signing.

Paying double their worth purely for their nationality.

AWB is going to be a great right back and he will be well worth the money we paid. I don't get the same feeling with Rice

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

This signing scares me if we are going to pay 70-90M out of this summer’s budget

If we have 150m net spend for example, does it still scare you?

 

[Dorris]

Worries me we’re linked with no other CM. When we’re inevitably priced out of a move what’s the alternative?