Declan Rice

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golden_blunder said:
Both but mostly West Ham. I think we are understating him but I understand the assumed price is prohibitive
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Do you think he plays differently a bit for England under southgate compared to How we plays for west ham?

I feel like the people who don’t rate him as much are the England followers ( which I was until I followedwest ham to see rice a bit more). For England Rice doesn’t seem creative because we hardly play teams that really require Rice’s defensive strengths sohe frequently seems like he doesn’t do much both defensively and offensively.
 
It’s really weird how we have a midfield of Bruno Fernandez and Pogba and apparently what we need is another creator.

I am really starting to not understand football.

3 creators in a midfield 3. And they still complain about Fred and Mctominay who we will have to continue using
 
Bebestation said:
It’s really weird how we have a midfield of Bruno Fernandez and Pogba and apparently what we need is another creator.

I am really starting to not understand football.

3 creators in a midfield 3. And they still complain about Fred and Mctominay who we will have to continue using
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It's largely down to the uncertainty surrounding Pogba. If he's off in the summer, or even if he continues playing on the left we might well need another creator.

That not to say we still don't need to upgrade Fred or McTominay. Hopefully we can find a player who is defensively proficient and good on the ball for that role.
 
Bebestation said:
Do you think he plays differently a bit for England under southgate compared to How we plays for west ham?

I feel like the people who don’t rate him as much are the England followers ( which I was until I followedwest ham to see rice a bit more). For England Rice doesn’t seem creative because we hardly play teams that really require Rice’s defensive strengths sohe frequently seems like he doesn’t do much both defensively and offensively.
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I honestly don’t watch england that much, find them a bit boring under Southgate and I’m not English so no real attraction there. From the bits I’ve seen though I think you’re right, he doesn’t get to display himself. I think for WH he is more visible because he has more to do. I think with the right coaching he could go on to become a very important piece for United long term. Right age, leadership and untapped skills, he will get better and better. We will regret it if he goes elsewhere
 
El Jefe said:
This is true, we need a Modric and a Casemiro type. This then begs the question are we better off letting Pogba go to bring in two actual midfielders? I think so because he should be the Modric type but has shown clearly in his time here he's not a CM, at least not one you can trust.

As much as Fred and Mctominay are disliked, they are played for a reason. They protect our defence as a pair. Pogba and Matic would probably be our best pairing for controlling games and passing quality but it would be awful off the ball. Ole has just chosen the safest option to guarantee us points.
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Bingo. That's why it won't be as easy a fix as people think. Declan Rice isn't going to get this engine beating. We lack a protector and someone who can dictate play.

People are mistaken into thinking Bruno and Pogba do that well. They don't. Their only thought is creating and match winning.
 
Judas said:
And yet him playing for a top club is inevitable. It will happen. Henderson recently lifted the CL and PL and you don't think Rice is good enough to play for a top club?
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Henderson has proven to be an excellent player. Rice hasn't done so yet. Of course if he's good enough he will reach those heights but he has to actually do it. Also I think people are right to be cautious in our case because it leaves us with few good passes despite having spent a monster fee on him. Fred Mctominay Matic and Rice has as much quality on the ball as a brick wall.
 
Isn’t Garner looking like our deep lying playmaker though?

If Pogba leaves we need 2 new midfielders but right now replacing matic for a deep lying playmaker makes no sense.
 
Garner is a Carrick, not a Scholes/Modric. Which isn’t a bad thing, just pointing out the difference.

We already have the Scholes/Modric at our club, annoying that he’s still only 16 though (turning 17 in a couple of months).
 
I think a calm and positionally disciplined DM is exactly what we need. Was apparant to see against Liverpool , McFred was all over the place .
 
golden_blunder said:
Ric

Rice - Garner - Bruno
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I suppose you could argue if we change our style to have a cm who is more of a deep player who links up play we have Rice and Garner as our two players who can do that, and Fred and Scott as our ‘destroyers’.

Not perfect but stronger than now.
 
NYAS said:
Garner is a Carrick, not a Scholes/Modric. Which isn’t a bad thing, just pointing out the difference.

We already have the Scholes/Modric at our club, annoying that he’s still only 16 though (turning 17 in a couple of months).
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Is than Hannibal?
 
amolbhatia50k said:
Bingo. That's why it won't be as easy a fix as people think. Declan Rice isn't going to get this engine beating. We lack a protector and someone who can dictate play.

People are mistaken into thinking Bruno and Pogba do that well. They don't. Their only thought is creating and match winning.
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Is that a problem with the players or the system?

Both have no problem with being reserved for their national teams and retain the ball quite well. There must be a common ground between that and what we see at United.
 
Idxomer said:
Is that a problem with the players or the system?

Both have no problem with being reserved for their national teams and retain the ball quite well. There must be a common ground between that and what we see at United.
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Never considered Pogba a true CM tbh. He always plays for a smooth as feck NT where so many players like Kante and Matuidi put in the hard yards. Plus given their forward line and athleticism in defence they don't need a playmaker per say. Bruno is a goalscoring attacking midfielder. Again not the engine room that dictates the game.

We basically have really attacking midfielders and really limited midfielders. And nothing in between. No passers to control the match
 
amolbhatia50k said:
Bingo. That's why it won't be as easy a fix as people think. Declan Rice isn't going to get this engine beating. We lack a protector and someone who can dictate play.

People are mistaken into thinking Bruno and Pogba do that well. They don't. Their only thought is creating and match winning.
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City doesn't play with that kind of player though. Rodri isn't exactly a destroyer and Fernandinho is old. Think is partly down to Ole as well. Yes, we have to upgrade Fred and McT but it just doesn't have to be a like to like replacement. Camavinga , Tielemans, Zakaria, Soumare, Neuhaus, Bissouma - all of them are actually very capable of performing better than our current options.
 
Bebestation said:
Is than Hannibal?
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Mejbri's a bit more in the mould of someone like Pogba, he's not got the same physical presence but he makes up for it with his tenacity. Halfway between Pogba and Grealish might be more apt, if that makes any sense.
 
bond19821982 said:
City doesn't play with that kind of player though. Rodri isn't exactly a destroyer and Fernandinho is old. Think is partly down to Ole as well. Yes, we have to upgrade Fred and McT but it just doesn't have to be a like to like replacement. Camavinga , Tielemans, Zakaria, Soumare, Neuhaus, Bissouma - all of them are actually very capable of performing better than our current options.
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They are full of good passers though. Used to KdB and Silva (both better than Pogba and Bruno at retaining the ball). Now Gundogan, Rodri etc I guess. Plus their possession coaching is on a different level of course. Ole not doing possession well doesn't help
 
Signing Rice would be very similar to the Maguire signing albeit Rice has more room to develop. Both are good players but not world class, yet will cost world class fees because they are at PL sides that don't need to sell, Maguire came into a side without a partner that suited and complimented him, it'll be the same for Rice if he's brought in, shielding the back 4 he can do really well, his passing is basic but competent and he can go on the occasional driving run, what he needs next him is a Gundogan to his Rodri or a Modric to his Casemiro as just 2 examples, that's not Pogba and it sure as hell isn't either of McFred.
 
theklr said:
I think a calm and positionally disciplined DM is exactly what we need. Was apparant to see against Liverpool , McFred was all over the place .
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Yeah I wonder if the lack of links to more of a deep lying playmaker are because Pogba is staying and hence Utd looking at just purely DM's who will pretty much just protect as Rice rather than more all rounders like Camavinga instead
 
croadyman said:
Yeah I wonder if the lack of links to more of a deep lying playmaker are because Pogba is staying and hence Utd looking at just purely DM's who will pretty much just protect as Rice rather than more all rounders like Camavinga instead
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A pure DM that can pass through the lines is what we need, a young Micheal Carrick. Rice could be the man.
 
I know it's not going to happen but hypothetically if we change our system, can a Rice Pogba Bruno midfield work if we play with 3 at the back?
 
Fans will happily pay 120 million for an English attacking player with all the free space to attack in the bundesliga- a player that does absolutely nothing for England or the champions league;

yet cries when an English team gets told that a young English defensive player will cost 70 million when he is very good in the premiere league.

I personally don’t care about a single cost of a player because it’s not my money. I just want some good players and I think Rice is the same as Maguire was
 
We're gonna spunk 80 mil on him only to realise he's no better than mcfred, aren't we?
 
Bebestation said:
Fans will happily pay 120 million for an English attacking player with all the free space to attack in the bundesliga- a player that does absolutely nothing for England or the champions league;

yet cries when an English team gets told that a young English defensive player will cost 70 million when he is very good in the premiere league.

I personally don’t care about a single cost of a player because it’s not my money. I just want some good players and I think Rice is the same as Maguire was
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Yeah there is no doubt that Harry has grown throughout this season after a tough start with what happened in Greece, completely understand people's concerns with Declan's lack of passing quality but feel like he has great leadership and has plenty of time to improve all aspects of his game.
 
Based on nothing but years of muppeting, I expect the links to Rice to pick up once the Sancho deal is finished. The Rice stuff won't pick up more till after the Euros, if he's fit enough to take part that is.
 
Judas said:
Based on nothing but years of muppeting, I expect the links to Rice to pick up once the Sancho deal is finished. The Rice stuff won't pick up more till after the Euros, if he's fit enough to take part that is.
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Yeah think that could well be the case
 
croadyman said:
Still feel the same if Jesse is involved in the deal?
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Maybe it's more realistic.

However I'm not fully sold on him either. He's clearly got something about him but is he really as good as he's being made out to be?

Personally I'd prefer us to sign a Carrick / Modric / Pirlo type DM and sell Pogba.
 
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