Never had of the Kante clause, how much did Fabinho cost, around 39m, if you include the English tax Rice should be a 50m signing max and that's very costly
Declan Rice
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Rice would be good for that with mcfred as backup/situational. But what if we don't get rice?
What about that Sander Berge guy now that SU are relegated
?
?I presumed it was to release Pogba further forward with Bruno, which I love the sound of
The prices I have heard are more than Bruno.
That is the issue for me, we could have brought Maddison for 100 million yet brought Bruno for half that. I think in the past we have been a bit lazy with our scouting and ended up with decent players where we could have gotten great players for less. This reeks of that to me, nothing against Rice who is a very decent player.
It’s not a move that’ll curry much favour.
https://www.skysports.com/football/...s-west-ham-midfielder-is-worth-more-than-100m
Not every player we purchase has to be a big money buy
Not every player we purchase has to be a big money buy
It’s moyes
Or that, yes.
Matic is hardly Toni Kroos, he’s generally just tidy on the ball and plays a nice forward pass occasionally. Rice can do the same.
And Pogba is good either way, but anyone would agree it’s in games where we are hoarding possession that we tend to get stagnant, and this is where having both Bruno and Pogba on the pitch providing to 3 forwards comes in handy. This is where Rice is much more useful as a partner
The problem is we have two defensive midfielders who don’t have a clue how to position themselves or progress the ball forward. So it doesn’t matter is it’s Fred; McTominay; Pogba or whoever.
Rice improves whoever He’s with. Knowing our current set up. It will be Fred it McTominay but it will still be a huge improvement on what we have now.
People sometimes forget that Donny might have a major role to play next season. Then Garner is developing nicely too.
I think if we sign a central midfielder, it will be an up and coming kid for around 20 million who nobody knows much about, who is not far off from moving up a level.
I think if we sign a central midfielder, it will be an up and coming kid for around 20 million who nobody knows much about, who is not far off from moving up a level.
If we sign a top CB then we won't need two DMs. I look forward to that day
If we play a 4231 we do. City did yesterday, and they did play with two DMs. Liverpool basically played with three DMs all of 19/20. We need five players who can create and attack, and five players who can defend and give the ball fast and «efficient» to our creative players.
I dont think the plan is to bring in Rice to be able to play Pogba. If we bring in Rice it is because he would be an improvement on Fred and McTominay. And he would be a player for the next decade.
To improve how we attack we need a better RB and RW. Look at the team we played with against Spurs, and imagine Sancho and Trippier on that right side. We would have Trippier and Shaw in the wider area of the pitch, Sancho and Pogba/Rashford in the half space and Bruno and Cavani through the middle. In my opinion, we battered Spurs that second half of the game. Imagine what we would do with a more natural right side.
Why would we need a creative midfielder deep next to a DM in such a team? Very few teams play like that these days. It would be way more important to have DMs that could give the ball quickly to our creative players and protect our defence in a manner that would give our fullbacks and attackers freedom going forward.
You don't count the wingbacks as offensive then. That is the keypoint I think. Rashford, Cavani, Sancho, Bruno and Pogba. That is 5. Shaw and Trippier as wingbacks. Only three spots left to defend.
We have tried to play that kind of lineup but we always go back to McFred or Pogba and Fred as deep playing CM to find the ballance. It is also games when James play because of his hard work in defence.
Klopp play this kind of setup very vell, and even him have more defenceminded players on the pitch at the same time. For us it looks hard to play with that many offensive players, just because of the kind of players our attackers are. Not many of them work hard in defence.
Good player but whilst it might be a fans priority, I don't think it's the clubs. Rice will cost 60m and it's not a priority when compared to RW, CB or even potentially CF.
Whitwell was suggesting yesterday that we are looking at an experienced RB option to back up AWB, however for some strange reason he wasn't asked about Varane, Rice or Sancho but did roll out the generic Haaland is top target thing
Personally I am still putting CDM ahead of CF only because of the crazy numbers involved with Erling this summer
Well, I actually think one of these would have two be benched. I know alot of fans find that absurd, but look at some of the options Man City and Chelsea have on the bench. Competition and options is a good thing. And needed if you want to win anything.
I know this set up would imply six attackers and four «defenders», but I think you could solve it with how much freedom the fullbacks get. I also think having Bruno Fernandes, with his intensity, pressing and understanding of the game, would help a lot.
I also think this discussion show why it is absurd to think we need someome more attacking next to Fred or McTominay. Even a player like Pogba, who is so good, needs protection to be able to express himself.
Would have to be Marcus because can then get himself fully fit
I agree. And that is a good point too. We should be able to give our best players more rest. I’m sure that is a priority of the club too. They are valuble assets. Nobody wants to run them into the ground.
I also think part of the reason Klopp played with very progressive fullbacks, and «water carriers» in midfield, is that the fullbacks get all the time and space. It is easier to progress the ball in wider areas of the pitch. Liverpool transition play go through Robertson and TAA. Hence, it help their transition. He dont want the transition to happen in central areas of the pitch, because he wants to transition fast. If he does that through the middle that increase the risk of losing the ball in an area of the pitch where you really dont wanna lose the ball. Like Pogba do sometimes.
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I do agree in most comments. To be abel to use our really good attackers at there best, we need to make sure they feel there is a backup when they push forward. You can do that in so many ways, and we all think a bit deferent in how. And yes the fullback could keep on playing like they do, one go forward the other sit back a bit.
For me the issues are when we should dominate games and the other team sit low.
We kind of ends up not finding our most creative players like Bruno and Pogba. And then someone like Maguire or Fred tries to do the creative stuff only Pogba and Bruno (Mata) can do regularly.
The player I miss in our team is the player that find Pogba/Bruno, and then support them deep as an alternativ when the wall is to thick. I also think if that player is good in the defence, it allows our wingbacks to go forward some more. And I like Rice in this position. I really like that he play simple and doing what he is doing good. The other stuff he let others do. I also rate that he is suppose to have good leadership skills. (One captain but eleven leaders.)
I think Ole wants a CB to do the same thing I want from a CDM. Therefore he is going to buy a CB and not a CDM.
If he find his CB. He will keep on playing with wingbacks that are not wingbacks or plays like "real" wingbacks, and two B2B players that are not B2B players or play like the "real" B2B style. And that is good for me, as long as its working out.
It's not the most viewed video but I like it because it shows the difference between Ndidi and Rice.
One will chase after the ball or player whilst the other one is able to keep their shape and centralised position and make the opposition have to go through him.
As the video says - if our goal is to be able to play players like Pogba and Bruno in a midfield/AM partnership (which VDB can be rotated in) then we cant have a defensive midfielder who is chasing after the ball/player and leaving the central midfield open to attackers that are able to take on our defenders face to face with a good dribble.
In my opinion This is why Fred, Bruno and Pogba has always looked like our best midfield 3 - but not exactly balanced to the right manner. It looks a bit Gung Ho when used. We are able to attack with great pace, fluidity and creativity - yet teams are able to attack us back with ease because Fred is an energetic chaser of the ball rather than someone who is able to defensively keep his position and have the attackers have to go through him.
He doesnt give a strong symmetrical shape to that midfield 3. It's the same with Mctomminay, he can add some defensive contribution as a CDM but he cant hold on to his position and has to chase after the opposition who has managed to get past him.
When you compare Matic to Fred or Mctomminay then you can see the slight difference in how they play. Matic even if he had energetic legs is capable of holding his position as a CDM and let Pogba and Bruno have a freedom to attack. He doesnt need to chase after attackers and the ball whilst leaving the defenders open if the opposition made a good pass; Matic plays like an extra CB right in front of a CB partnership rather than a midfielder you find running after a ball that went past Wan Wan Bissaka.
For me this is the difference between Ndidi and Fernandinho as another example and it's why I prefer Rice over Ndidi. Rice is capable of taking Matic's role as a CDM whilst Ndidi would be playing the CDM role more like Fred does which is not what we need when buying a CDM for 80 million trying to give a shape and balance to Pogba and Bruno Fernandes.
Do people still think we are going to play DM, Pogba and Bruno in midfield?
Yes if it’s against the bottom teams or the bottom 8 teams, but highly doubt we will use it against the top teams or even some of the mid table teams.
I think people are forgetting that this has been the case in Pogba at Juventus and France World Cup. At Juve, he had an extra centre back not just Pirlo and Vidal behind him. In the France World Cup, he had Matuidi not just Kante and keep in mind both of France’s full backs were very good defensively and originally centre back in their clubs.
Clearly it was never the case that one CDM alone is enough to hide Pogba’s weaknesses. You need to play in Guardiola system like Silva & KDB to make it works which we don’t play the same way and even other managers also don’t play the same way.
I think Ndidi is 100% out of the choice and shouldn’t be taken into account. Imagine him next to Fred or McTominay. I don’t think that’s the solution. Rice has potentially to be a solution as he has something to offer that Fred and McT are not good at but at the same time someone like regista like Carrick, Modric type and etc can also work well as a solution.
Should be a priority if we are not going after a CB anymore since he will solve our DM problem and can also fill in as 3rd choice CB when Bailly is inevitably injured
He's going to cost minimum 75m. It's an absolute joke if we spend that on him. He's nowhere near that good.
We won’t spend that much though because we have lingard. It’ll be lingard plus 45-50m, possibly in installments. I’d take it too
Your right but many think he's good enough. Even if we trade in Lingard I think it will be expensive and overpriced.
Everytime I see him he doesn't look any better than Scott or Fred. Granted he plays more of an authentic DM role which is what we need, I just don't see that level of quality that the fee should command.
Rice is a good Defencive midfielder but:
West Ham seem to want a lot of money for him
He still seems to love Chelsea
Chelsea already have Kante, Jorghino, Gilmour plus Ampadu to come back off loan
Gut feel he wont go anywhere this summer as nobody will pay what west ham want - and next summer or the summer after for a more reasonable fee hewill end up back at Chelsea when probaby kante ahs gone and one of Ampadu or Gilmour has been deemed surplus to requirements
West Ham seem to want a lot of money for him
He still seems to love Chelsea
Chelsea already have Kante, Jorghino, Gilmour plus Ampadu to come back off loan
Gut feel he wont go anywhere this summer as nobody will pay what west ham want - and next summer or the summer after for a more reasonable fee hewill end up back at Chelsea when probaby kante ahs gone and one of Ampadu or Gilmour has been deemed surplus to requirements
I really don't think Rice is a fit for the system. Ole is settled on playing 4231 and it's clear he will stay with the double pivot. I don't believe Pogba will be the answer in double pivot no matter who partners him.
I think Ole is more likely to add a playmaker who suits the formation. The likes of Kroos, pjanic or Verratti style of player.
I think Ole is more likely to add a playmaker who suits the formation. The likes of Kroos, pjanic or Verratti style of player.
Rice plays in double pivot with Soucek at West Ham and also alongside Phillips in England.
I agree that we need deep-playmaker since that’s the area we don’t have and I fancy Pogba to play further forward but deep-playmaker is not easy to find in this market. We could make a case that Garner could develop into one but he’s currently just prospect.
End of the day, he needs to work what’s available and what he can get in the transfer market. Rice could become very good investment for long term by playing him next to Garner in the future.
For Next season, he could also provide benefits for VDB or McT or Fred because Rice is much more intelligent in his defensive aspect and better in his positioning than Fred & McT. May be the big reason Ole didn’t play VDB in double pivot because he knows VDB likes to go into advance area when the space is available but the problem is when a player does that meaning another player will need to be able to cover for him and must aware for counter attack if we lose the ball. It requires someone with good positioning skills and ability to read the game, which not Fred & McT. Signing Rice also allows someone like Fred and McT to play more in box to box role too.
End of the day, whether it is DM like Rice or more of a playmaker like Kroos/Modric, it will still improve us as a team and the manager can find a way to make the best out of it.
Didnt we play Matic - Pogba - Bruno against more or less all sides after project restart last season though?
Majority against the bottom teams or teams that sit deep yes. What about it?
Didnt we play some top/mid table teams then?
Brighton, West Ham, Bournemouth, Villa, Palace.
Rice is getting better. He's not world class yet but he has potential. There are very few of his type around to buy. All the big clubs now regret not signing Grealish a couple of years ago. Potential top players don't become available very often, so if United can do deals for Rice and Sancho, it has to be soon because there will be others interested.
The question you need to ask is, will rice be good value at £70m+ for a squad player?
For me he's not much better if at all than the options we currently have, so for the money i'd rather we looked elsewhere.
For instance
Aurélien Tchouaméni from Monaco
He's rice without the price.
For me he's not much better if at all than the options we currently have, so for the money i'd rather we looked elsewhere.
For instance
Aurélien Tchouaméni from Monaco
He's rice without the price.
West Ham aren't getting 70m for Rice let alone 70m + Lingard from Us that's just not happening . Unlike many here I believe he is good enough for us Currently and potential to get even better.
But anything beyond 50 m even that's on the expensive side we should walk away considering Lingard's form for them Him and additional 30-35m Should be our best offer.
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