Don't see a midfield where Rice and Casemiro play together and creativity doesn't get impacted. Even if it were possible, I just don't see us spending 80+ million on a player and him becoming successful. It'll be another situation where initially we'll wait for him to come around, then we'll blame his teammates who don't know how to "unlock" him and then the final step of acceptance that he's just not as good as the hype. We've seen that picture too many times and hope we sit this one out.
Declan Rice | signs for arsenal
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There maybe better players than Rice but I don’t think he is overrated.
He is overpriced though, I don’t think anyone can doubt that.
What Rice does defensively is actually quite hard to see to the eye as like videos have said - he stays until it’s the perfect time to catch the prey and then kills it.
I genuinely believe some people don’t see it rather than not rate it, because once you see it - it’s very hard not to rate.
Now he has added an attacking game to his abilities - his most further forward attack being his progressive carries and box to box like runs - whilst his deepest style attacking abilities is to make long cross channel passes.
He has done this under managers like Southgate and Moyes who have very poor coaching ability. I do think he will go up even a further level under a single year of coaching under Arteta or Ten Hag.
Even though I doubt he joins us - he will be one of my favorite players to watch for England whoever he does play for. What he does is a joy to watch and I feel sad for fans who both don’t see what he does or rate what he does merely because it’s very enjoyable.
He is overpriced though, I don’t think anyone can doubt that.
What Rice does defensively is actually quite hard to see to the eye as like videos have said - he stays until it’s the perfect time to catch the prey and then kills it.
I genuinely believe some people don’t see it rather than not rate it, because once you see it - it’s very hard not to rate.
Now he has added an attacking game to his abilities - his most further forward attack being his progressive carries and box to box like runs - whilst his deepest style attacking abilities is to make long cross channel passes.
He has done this under managers like Southgate and Moyes who have very poor coaching ability. I do think he will go up even a further level under a single year of coaching under Arteta or Ten Hag.
Even though I doubt he joins us - he will be one of my favorite players to watch for England whoever he does play for. What he does is a joy to watch and I feel sad for fans who both don’t see what he does or rate what he does merely because it’s very enjoyable.
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Phillips is my view offers more than Rice. And he was pretty much correctly priced. So I have no desire to get Rice at anything above 73m pounds.
A release clause with an accurate price. I conceed the Tchoumeni point. He was still just 83m pounds. West Ham want 100m pounds and above for Rice. That's pure nonsense.
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Please no. He is too limited and would be way too expensive.
If Rodri is as out for a full season and Pep had to choice or playing Kalvin Phillips or swapping him for Declan Rice.
Honest opinion here. What do you think he would do?
Bare that in mind with your Phillips offers more comment.
Thank feck for that.
He would use Stones as a DM.
Not sure why you need him unless there’s a midfielder not expected to play next season?
He will be your Maguire.
Was just about to bite and saw you were a Brighton fan!
Actually it was 4 years ago and they got him relatively cheap compared to market.
I'm not saying Rice is worth 100m, just saying your example isn't a good one. Rodri would have cost a lot more if he didn't have the clause.
There's talk that Xhaka could potentially go back to Germany, been strongly linked to Leverkusen.
Not at the time. He was just breaking through. His buy out clause in actual fact was the over pricing because he was an elite 6 type talent. His real figure wouldn't have been that high without it.
I'd expect him to easily stick with Phillips rather than spend a shit load on Rice and have him floundering in an uber important role as he gets used to Pep ball. Yet it has nothing do with ether players actual ability.
People are on here pretending a Philips is "suddenly shit" because of a slow start at City. Yet like most Guardiola buys he is taking at least 6 months to get used to Pep Ball.
Rodri himself took 6 months to a year as Fernandinho carried the load till he was ready to take that pivot role in Pep's system.
I'd expect a Rice to take just as long. De Jong due to his Dutch footballing upbringing is possibly the ONLY 6 around who wouldn't need 6 months having never played for Pep before.
So to answer you. No way in hell he'd go for Rice let alone any other player bar De jong in such a scenario. Even if Rice were a superior player.
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Yes the fee was around market 70m euros, I for some reason thought they got him a lot cheaper than that.
I'm sure you know full well 70m euros 4 years ago (yesterday's price is not today's price)
He would be priced higher today because talents are priced higher in today's market
Rice is a weird one. I just don’t see it. I get that people might say he’s a solid 8/10 in all the disciplines needed in midfield, but I honestly wouldn’t pay more than £60m for him.
Although I’m an Ipswich fan so it’s something of a moot point.
Although I’m an Ipswich fan so it’s something of a moot point.
I don't think you actually understand that concept of release clauses , You do realise buy out or release clauses don't prevent Clubs from negotiating transfer fees if they wish to do so.
If it would have been possible for City to negotiate lower fee with favourable payment structure for Rodri with Atletico they would have done that.
He would be very good for us. Money is scary though unless we have silly amounts of it due to takeover.
Tchouameni was €80M upfront, which is around £68M, so your initial valuation is still right (below £70M).
I like the idea of lesser money with McTominay going the other way.
I understand them better than you think. Not only have you overlooked that those clauses (especially in Spain) rarely reflect the actual value of the player pinned with one. You have also blatantly over looked the obvious fact a club with a release clause can utterly refuse to discuss ANY deal below it. Which is exactly what Atletico Madrid told all interested parties for the player so there was no room for a City to negotiate......
Would much prefer Caicedo.
Decent player in the 60-70m range. We could do with someone that can cover for Case and also play alongside but I'd like to see more technical ability brought in. Seems Arsenal are lining him up anyway while we have more to do. 90-100m is probably too much for us even if ETH wanted him.
You have lost me completely so you are arguing against the point you yourself made .
And everything you have said here is what I said in my post .
Arsenal want both.
Much better footballer than Maguire. The level of composure and resilience he would offer this Arsenal team would be immense. Can play a single pivot and with his aiblity to win the ball high up the pitch can be a big attacking asset. Partey would drop to the bench and between Rice, Partey and Jorginho, we would be stacked in midfield.
Arteta hasnt made a big signing yet. White at 50m is the biggest. ETH (Antony), Pep (Grealish), Klopp (Dawrin) have all had their big big money signing. Arteta deserves one. Really think he will pull this off
Between Balogun, Tierney and potentially Smith-Rowe, we could raise 100m between those three.
I do believe Arteta wants both Rice and Caicedo. I have the feeling what's happened in the run in will just light a fire under him and Arsenal will go nuclear this transfer window. A midfield trio of Rice, Caicedo and Odegaard would be pretty incredible, especially franked by Saka and Martinelli. Although there is long way to make that happening
We shouldn't allow that to happen.
I don't get what he's saying either.
@Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber, surely the point is that Atletico would have refused all offers of under the release clause. So if City wanted to buy him and he had no release clause, Atletico would have demanded higher than the €70M, therefore making the transfer more expensive?
Sorry. I didn’t state a fee. I’m talking hypothetical to have to option of picking Rice.
Basically Rice is very comparable and compatible to Rodri. Phillips is nowhere near the same level. Now if you factor in price. This is where West Ham get their valuation.
You need to stop confusing yourself.
I had earlier stated Rodri "was accurately priced " for an elite DM talent. Then in reply to me explaining to someone else that Rodri would not have been more expensive without the buy out clause yo, claimed "I don't understand the concept of release clauses". Yet are now lying to yourself that my reply to your accusation is miraculously disputing anything I earlier stated because I've shown you how mistaken you are about my grasp of the concept you accused me of having no clue about...
a cliche but you could absolutely see Fergie loving him as a player and reliable character
My answer remains unchanged. He won't exchange a player who has spent 6 months to a year learning how to play his kinda ball for even a superior one who has never done so.
Ow please. First West Ham get their "evaluation" from City buying Jack Grealish who was Villa star player.. Has nothing all to do with anything Rice can
actually do.
Second, If Rice were at City right now instead of Phillips, he'd also be stuck on the bench just like Phillips in this his first season. Because he wouldn't be ready to play the pivot nor midfield roles in Pep ball yet either on any consistent basis ....
Its hilariousl you actually believe a Phillips isn't playing much at City
currently because he supposedly isn't compatible with a Rodri...rather than because he simply isn't ready to yet.
My apologies if I came across as rude but point still remains you are contradicting yourself rather than me getting confused .
The fact that City had to pay the release clauses to get Rodri clearly proves that Atletico didn't want to negotiate for lesser fee than 70 m or sell at all otherwise they would have negotiated and done that irrespective of release clauses figure .
In that case Brighton should bite our hands off if we offer 10m for Caicedo
I’m not being funny but have you seen Rice over the last 18 months? He falls back into the back line against midfields that he should be stepping up on.
He’ll be great for you away to City if you decide to take a backwards step but games at home v the likes of Palace will see him disappear as he normally does
Wrong. For that makes the unwarranted assumption Atletico Madrid Valued him higher than his release clause, yet no such evidence exists.
One must first understand Spanish clubs routinely and traditionally put release clauses significantly higher than what they value their players for in order to force interested parties to either:
i) negotiate reasonable fee they will benefit from ;
ii) to reap abnormal profit from an obviously over priced player;
iii) to chase off any potential suitors due to the blatant unreasonableness of the clause (especially to avoid things like european rivals snatching Figo and neymar for example)
Furthermore at the time Rodri was just breaking through. So its safe to infer his buy out clause was the highest possible value Atletico Madrid were willing to price his elite level talent at above his actual market value.
I insist. You have failed to demonstrate how I've contradicted myself let alone shown I don't grasp release clauses as a concept which is why I think you are confused. Rather than rude to be fair.
Of course it DOES prove they didn't want to sell for less than the clause. Nothing I've stated in this thread till now contradicts it.
However it does not prove they didn't desire to sell at all. For if that were the case at all it would have been a clause of at least 90 -100m chasing off all suitors. You can't get release clauses and not know nor accept something that obvious.
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