Decades Draft Tournament : KM vs Jayvin

Who will win based on all the players at their prime?

  • Total voters
    27
  • Poll closed .
antohan said:
The more I think about it the more I see Brwned being right that the midfield will get run over. I wasn't too fussed as I saw it as an open end-to-end game, but Jayvin may be a bit broken in the attacking transition here. Too much may be falling on Robbo's shoulders.
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As you stated yourself earlier, Zito is perfectly suited to the defensive role he has been given in my side, and alongside Robson (who was no slouch defensively himself) I don't really see how my midfield will be getting overrun. Especially when one of Beckenbauer and Ballack will be occupied with Kopa.

There's also the matter of stopping Giggs and Best, and with KM already stating that Laudrup and Hamrin will be attacking at every opportunity (how good were they at tracking back anyway?), surely he would need Beckenbauer and Ballack helping his fullbacks to cope with the threat, which would then give Robson and Kopa the space needed to rampage through the center.

In the end I think my team just has too many attacking threats for KM to deal with.
 
You have a point KM. It is hard to see past the confidence you get when seeing Jayvin's lineup but your attacking quartet is indeed very strong.

Both back 5s are solid and you have more control in midfield so it may well be that the intricate moves you can pull off are what is required to win this.

But you need to be more vocal, on pictures alone you will lose this.
 
Aye, so my midfield will be occupied by Kopa but your midfield of Zito or Robson won't be occupied by Dalglish then?

Suits me just fine!
 
KM said:
For all the talk about Best and Giggs, I'm not sure if my wide players are any less than them. Laudrup at his prime was hailed one of the best where as Hamrin has an amazing goalscoring record, made even more remarkable that he was a winger.

Dalglish was arguably the best player of one of the best club teams in history. I think pound for pound my attacking four is better than that of Jayvin.
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No chance. I know awards don't mean everything, but surely it says something that 3 of my 4 attackers have won the Ballon d'or. Best is regarded as one of the greatest players of all time, I don't think you can say the same for Hamrin.
 
Jayvin said:
As you stated yourself earlier, Zito is perfectly suited to the defensive role he has been given in my side, and alongside Robson (who was no slouch defensively himself) I don't really see how my midfield will be getting overrun. Especially when one of Beckenbauer and Ballack will be occupied with Kopa.

There's also the matter of stopping Giggs and Best, and with KM already stating that Laudrup and Hamrin will be attacking at every opportunity (how good were they at tracking back anyway?), surely he would need Beckenbauer and Ballack helping his fullbacks to cope with the threat, which would then give Robson and Kopa the space needed to rampage through the center.

In the end I think my team just has too many attacking threats for KM to deal with.
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As I said, I think it will be end to end. Zito is well suited to this game indeed. The issue I see is when he has the ball Beckenbauer is relying on Laudrup and Dalglish's support to create something. Robbo is on Ballack I assume so that leaves Zito to stop them three single-handedly, unless Cafú is doing an Amoros on Cruyff with Laudrup. He can stop KM getting too comfortable but not much more than that.

When you have the ball Zito isn't doing much, Ballack is on Robbo and Beckenbauer is doing what a libero like him would do: keep tabs on Kopa but be ready to go to the aid of any part of the defence that needs immediate support.

It's an open game, there's no real/significant midfield recovery battle or domination. You try your luck down the wings, he tries his luck passing the ball between three top class players who can all place the killer ball if the opening emerges (Beckenbauer is more the "back to midfield, try again" pass though, which is unfortunate).

I think both sides will score, question is who scores more.
 
antohan said:
You have a point KM. It is hard to see past the confidence you get when seeing Jayvin's lineup but your attacking quartet is indeed very strong.

Both back 5s are solid and you have more control in midfield so it may well be that the intricate moves you can pull off are what is required to win this.

But you need to be more vocal, on pictures alone you will lose this.
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I know goals aren't everything but Best has a record of 137 goals in 361 appearances whilst Hamrin has a record of 150 goals in 289 appearances for Fiorentina. I don't think I'd be unfair in saying this but Laudrup was probably a better player than Giggsy in his prime.
 
antohan said:
Beckenbauer is doing what a libero like him would do: keep tabs on Kopa but be ready to go to the aid of any part of the defence that needs immediate support.
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Yes, and he will be doing a lot of that because I can't see Laudrup and Hamrin helping out much against Giggs and Best, which means more space for Kopa. I think the passing quality of my defence also needs to be touched upon; Blanc and Tresor are more than capable of maintaining their composure under pressure and finding a teammate to start a quick counter, whereas KM doesn't have that same kind of quality.
 
Thiago Sliva is among the world's best at passing the ball from the back. Him and Stam are actually two very complete center backs themselves.
 
Enjoyed the discussion so far, better head off to bed now so I can wake up refreshed to continue tomorrow!
 
KM said:
I know goals aren't everything but Best has a record of 137 goals in 361 appearances whilst Hamrin has a record of 150 goals in 289 appearances for Fiorentina. I don't think I'd be unfair in saying this but Laudrup was probably a better player than Giggsy in his prime.
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Laudrup is nothing like Giggs though. What I would argue there is that you have more options in that you have a classic winger on one side and a playmaker who will link up very well with Dalglish and has been proven to make Romario absolutely devastating. Jayvin has a recognised partnership going with Best-Law, mind.

Jayvin said:
I think the passing quality of my defence also needs to be touched upon; Blanc and Tresor are more than capable of maintaining their composure under pressure and finding a teammate to start a quick counter, whereas KM doesn't have that same kind of quality.
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That is true. But then, you have no one in midfield like Beckenbauer. If he were completely shackled I would worry a lot more about Stam and Silva, but he seems to be in his element protecting the backline, dropping back and receiving to initiate moves. It's a good point, but what you have on him in composure at the back he has on you in composure in the centre of the park, where it is more important (except if we were talking of god awful defenders who will end up passing the ball straight back to an attacker, which is not what I would expect from his pair, I just don't think they will be particularly creative).
 
Two really impressive teams. What do we make of Blanc and Tresor as a partnership? They're both pretty good, especially Tresor, but a bit too sweepery perhaps?
 
Not your favoured ball-player + hardman combo, but I don't see Jayvin having a problem here as a result of that. It's not the most complimentary pair, but a very good one nonetheless.
 
BUMP!

Very early but this is the closest game we've so far.
 
antohan said:
Laudrup is nothing like Giggs though. What I would argue there is that you have more options in that you have a classic winger on one side and a playmaker who will link up very well with Dalglish and has been proven to make Romario absolutely devastating. Jayvin has a recognised partnership going with Best-Law, mind.
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Yes I know that Giggsy is a different player to Laudrup.

But who will history remember as the better player out of the two?
 
Laudrup of course. The point though was that you had two different approaches from either wing. Best could be more of a playmaker relative to Giggs, but not to the level of Laudrup.

The comparison to be made is of two out and out wingers (Hamrin and Giggs) and two wide players who could provide an alternative route (Laudrup and Best). Yes, Best could just go and do the same out and out winger job Giggs is doing, but it is in the options that I think the balance of the game may tilt one way or the other.
 
I'll be away for the weekend so making my vote now.

I find Jayvin's side sexier, probably with the stronger individuals all doing things they are very competent at. I would like to see it once/if he can add Charlton to it.

But when you dig deeper you can see Beckenbauer handling the transition, working the ball well with Laudrup and Dalglish, and thus Romario getting the sort of service that made him unstoppable.

It's strange but despite there being more established partnerships in Jayvin's side I can see him reduced to isolated individual efforts rather than as a fluid team working together. I put it largely down to an uninspiring midfield two TBH: Beckenbauer will own this game.
 
I don't understand the discussion about Beckenbauer. He rarely used his runs into the box in important games and was always more a deep lying playmaker with incredible defensive abilities and never a box to box midfielder. Sure, he could do more, he could do a lot of things and when it wasn't that important he usually did something spectecular for fun. But that didn't make him an all time great, imo. I really like Ballack in that midfield and he adds goals, which helps KM more than another defensive midfielder who gives Beckenbauer more freedom to move forward. Laudrup will add a lot of creativity in the final third anyway, there's no need for Beckenbauer to get close to the penalty box all the time. Like Brwned already said, it worked brilliantly with Overath in midfield.
 
I think the problem is none of us really like Ballack that much Balu :lol:

It was a lot easier for me to wrap my head around it once I assumed Ballack and Robbo cancelled each other out and looked at what everyone else was doing.
 
Yeah agree, Beckenbauer would have a huge role to play and can really curb Kopa here. While Jay has two great wingers, KM's fullbacks are fantastic as well and can do a job on them. I do think both teams will find the back of the net just think KM has got a better buildup going on.
 
1 vote in this after everybody had Jayvin as the tourney favorite. :lol: Love this stuff
 
Balu said:
I don't understand the discussion about Beckenbauer. He rarely used his runs into the box in important games and was always more a deep lying playmaker with incredible defensive abilities and never a box to box midfielder. Sure, he could do more, he could do a lot of things and when it wasn't that important he usually did something spectecular for fun. But that didn't make him an all time great, imo. I really like Ballack in that midfield and he adds goals, which helps KM more than another defensive midfielder who gives Beckenbauer more freedom to move forward. Laudrup will add a lot of creativity in the final third anyway, there's no need for Beckenbauer to get close to the penalty box all the time. Like Brwned already said, it worked brilliantly with Overath in midfield.
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Thanks.

I made the Beckenbauer-Ballack midfield thinking that it'll be a great combination of two different type of midfielders. You and Brwned have vindicated that belief.
 
NM said:
1 vote in this after everybody had Jayvin as the tourney favorite. :lol: Love this stuff
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I was cursing my luck after reading that!
 
antohan said:
I think the problem is none of us really like Ballack that much Balu :lol:

It was a lot easier for me to wrap my head around it once I assumed Ballack and Robbo cancelled each other out and looked at what everyone else was doing.
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Nothing wrong in disliking Ballack, he's a cnut. Just thought it's strange that someone would think the setup is limiting Beckenbauer. As great a playmaker as he was, he's still a defender first. He won the Ballon d'Or when he played as a centerback in 72 with Netzer controling the game from deep for the nationalteam. That was a setup in which he arguably was limited to defending, but he still made it work and never lost his influence on the game.
 
KM said:
I was cursing my luck after reading that!
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To be honest, I was SOOOOOO close to voting for you too. You really did put together a great side, and are winning. But the moral of the story (and I've learnt this over two drafts) is nobody likes any player even related to Chelsea. Ballack is making people dislike your side!
 
NM said:
To be honest, I was SOOOOOO close to voting for you too. You really did put together a great side, and are winning. But the moral of the story (and I've learnt this over two drafts) is nobody likes any player even related to Chelsea. Ballack is making people dislike your side!
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Tbh I didn't think people will hate Ballack. I had major concerns over Dalglish though. He was voted as Liverpools greatest ever player.
 
What do people think of my center back pairing?
In my head, Stam and Silva look like terrific pairing.
 
KM said:
Thanks.

I made the Beckenbauer-Ballack midfield thinking that it'll be a great combination of two different type of midfielders. You and Brwned have vindicated that belief.
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You really need to improve that midfield though. You are getting away with it here, but quite a few midfields out there would have destroyed both sides the more you think about it.

If Beckenbauer had more pressure then your lack of decent ability on the ball across the back four would indeed become an issue. As it is, he is loving to be left to strut his stuff.
 
antohan said:
You really need to improve that midfield though. You are getting away with it here, but quite a few midfields out there would have destroyed both sides the more you think about it.

If Beckenbauer had more pressure then your lack of decent ability on the ball across the back four would indeed become an issue. As it is, he is loving to be left to strut his stuff.
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Let me first win the match Anto, then we will talk about improving midfield!
 
KM said:
Tbh I didn't think people will hate Ballack. I had major concerns over Dalglish though. He was voted as Liverpools greatest ever player.
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I actually had to deliberately force myself to think as a neutral with him. He really, really, puts me off. It was helpful that I had eliminated Ballack by sending him to have a box-to-box battle with Robbo in some parallel universe. If I spent too much time thinking about them two I would have voted differently.
 
KM said:
What do people think of my center back pairing?
In my head, Stam and Silva look like terrific pairing.
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I don't really like it. Can't put my finger on a good reason for it though, both very good defenders and I can see them dealing with Law.

KM said:
Let me first win the match Anto, then we will talk about improving midfield!
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Of course, but since I will be away until Monday I thought it was more timely to mention it now!
 
antohan said:
It was a lot easier for me to wrap my head around it once I assumed Ballack and Robbo cancelled each other out
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Robson and Ballack cancel each other out.. Right.
 
Went for Jayvin - really surprised he's losing this game, as good as KM's side is Jayvin's whole team back to front just works for me.

There is no issue with transition IMO, he has the easiest transition on the pitch through that dominating right flank, as well as the central routes of Kopa and Robson
 
KM said:
What do people think of my center back pairing?
In my head, Stam and Silva look like terrific pairing.
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It's a complementary partnership I agree although one which will need strengthening sooner rather than later.
 
Balu said:
I don't understand the discussion about Beckenbauer. He rarely used his runs into the box in important games and was always more a deep lying playmaker with incredible defensive abilities and never a box to box midfielder. Sure, he could do more, he could do a lot of things and when it wasn't that important he usually did something spectecular for fun. But that didn't make him an all time great, imo. I really like Ballack in that midfield and he adds goals, which helps KM more than another defensive midfielder who gives Beckenbauer more freedom to move forward. Laudrup will add a lot of creativity in the final third anyway, there's no need for Beckenbauer to get close to the penalty box all the time. Like Brwned already said, it worked brilliantly with Overath in midfield.
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Yep. I particularly agree with the doing something spectacular for fun bit - that's Beckenbauer in a nutshell! Dictating things with ease at either end until he just decides the rest of his team-mates are taking too long to get the result so he just makes things happen. The rest of the time he's just happily sitting back stroking the ball about. Up against someone like Maradona of course you'd need a Rijkaard in there alongside him but he's quite comfortable with this midfield battle I think.
 
antohan said:
Sort of, yes, they are both doing much the same thing. One is better but neither will be key to the outcome.
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They aren't cancelling each other out though.

This is Captain Marvel we're talking about and you think he'll be cancelled out by Ballack.. Good luck with that.
 
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