Decades Draft Tournament : Fergus' son vs antohan

[Moby]

Quite tough to decide this one. I agree with TITO that antohan looks more like scoring, there is no way Fergus can go on the front foot and commit bodies up front and leave Garrincha looking at a single guy stopping him, that is suicide. To stop him you need people doubling up on him the whole time and hence Fergus has no other option to defend deep and put bodies behind anto's attack. In that case if Garrincha or Eusebio happen to come up with a moment of magic which they easily can Fergus can concede.

Fergus front 3 is pretty underwhelming at this stage. He doesn't have a great pacy winger to catch Alberto off his mark. I think Desilly can do a job on Eto'o.

Big big mistake not to start Kaka IMO. Bastian would have been all over the pitch trying to track him and that would have opened it all up, never mind the fact that he can take defenders on and score a fair bit himself.

Even if we say that Fergus has enough to absorb anto's attack and get the ball back, his transition is not lightening quick and would give anto enough time to re organize and take care of any threat.

 

[Gio]

No one seems to notice though

Come on Anto, you're 5-3 up. No need to get the X-Factor tears out yet.

 

[antohan]

They are all great Fergus, it's the limp-dicked frontline facing a very strong defence that is the problem.

Junior is comfortable, Desailly and Hierro are laughing, Carlos Alberto is quite fine as well.

Schuster, Luis Enrique and Schweinsteiger have a job to do in recovery but ultimately I will get the ball back and you won't have scored while having it.

 

[Moby]

Have to think a bit more on this. Fergus needs to show people what Lothar is capable of, IMO if anyone can win the game for him it is him. He is in his comfort zone, he doesn't have an all time great midfielder to stick to so he can show up wherever he wants to and dominate the game from there. He's got the mental toughness and determination to rally his troops and get a win for his team, far more than anyone here. With Redondo providing great cover in midfield, if he goes on his gliding runs one after another it will really put anto's defense in disarray. Bastian is not capable of tracking him IMO.

That is the only way I see Fergus taking the game, if Matthaus takes it all on himself which he can really.

fecking close this.

 

[antohan]

No wonder. He's up against an even better model of himself in Matthaus.

Matthaus is the better player all right. There's a difference on the one count that will ultimately settle this game. Can that midget score from a header from the many crosses flying into Fergus' box? Can he execute a one-two inside the box flawlessly? All I have to do to stop his goalscoring contribution is close him down on the edge of the box before he shoots one of them screamers, that's the only way I see Fergus scoring and arguably one of the easiest threats to defend against. He will get one, if any.

 

[antohan]

Come on Anto, you're 5-3 up. No need to get the X-Factor tears out yet.

But I keep saying it and I see no one agreeing with that, just banging on about them midfielders being better.

So what? Everyone has better or worse players in different parts of the pitch but I have a credible gameplan.

Solid defence + sufficient recovery + guaranteed transition + deadly frontline.
vs.
Solid defence + strong midfield + can't score for toffee.

 

[Moby]

Matthaus is the better player all right. There's a difference on the one count that will ultimately settle this game. Can that midget score from a header from the many crosses flying into Fergus' box? Can he execute a one-two inside the box flawlessly? All I have to do to stop his goalscoring contribution is close him down on the edge of the box before he shoots one of them screamers, that's the only way I see Fergus scoring and arguably one of the easiest threats to defend against. He will get one, if any.

I think he can do all that. He did that in Serie A when he almost finished as top scorer at Inter and that was the time when Serie A had a lot tougher defenses than La Liga in the 90s. He definitely has a lot more determination which sets him apart.

Only if it was Kaka mazing around your defense giving Lothar even more space it would have almost settled it for me. As good as Netzer was since his forwards are not as potent as you would need to be his creativity can go a bit wasted and that is where Kaka's directness would have come handy.

 

[Gio]

So what? Everyone has better or worse players in different parts of the pitch but I have a credible gameplan.

It looks to me that Fergus'son's approach is much the same as Lippi's Juventus backed up by a defence largely chiselled out of Trapattoni's Juve. It would help if he was around to argue his case though, and I don't know much about Amancio and the player profile for him doesn't say anything new.

 

[antohan]

I think he can do all that. He did that in Serie A when he almost finished as top scorer at Inter and that was the time when Serie A had a lot tougher defenses than La Liga in the 90s. He definitely has a lot more determination which sets him apart.

Only if it was Kaka mazing around your defense giving Lothar even more space it would have almost settled it for me. As good as Netzer was since his forwards are not as potent as you would need to be his creativity can go a bit wasted and that is where Kaka's directness would have come handy.

No, not really, Matthaus goals can be safely reduced to two categories: long shots and set pieces.

Speaking of which... Who on earth is drawing fouls at my end of the pitch? No one. How many fouls are Garrincha and Eusebio drawing? Plenty, probably including a peno for good measure.

If it's direct on goal I fancy Eusebio or Junior to bag one and aerially I have the upper hand. I have more big lads and known for scoring headed goals.

I sense you are just waiting for Kaká to come on in the second half to decide your vote. Bear one thing in mind though, if I'm up by then (and I would) I would be picking him off on the counter all day long.

 

[Cutch]

Fergus needs to get Kaka on that pitch i reckon

 

[Fergus' son]

Knew Netzer wouldn't get any credit! Make the change please Aldo!

 

[Cutch]

Knew Netzer wouldn't get any credit! Make the change please Aldo!

You can't be havin a World Player of the Year stuck on the bench mate!

 

[Moby]

Knew Netzer wouldn't get any credit! Make the change please Aldo!

About time. Just a minute.

 

[Fergus' son]

It looks to me that Fergus'son's approach is much the same as Lippi's Juventus backed up by a defence largely chiselled out of Trapattoni's Juve. It would help if he was around to argue his case though, and I don't know much about Amancio and the player profile for him doesn't say anything new.

Can't get into too much detail til later but you're in the right track, Amancio was an outside right who will provide the threat of a genuine traditional winger, which balances nicely with Del Piero on the other side. Amancio wil provide a good outlet for my team and stretch the game across the whole pitch, allowing room for Redondo or in particular, Matthaus' driving runs from midfield.

Not seeing why Eto'o is getting so much criticism when Anto has Bastian vs Matthaus/Redondo in his team...Matthaus would eat him alive, particularly with such a solid foundation to work off.

 

[Fergus' son]

You can't be havin a World Player of the Year stuck on the bench mate!

Greatest German playmaker of all time shouldn't be either but Kaka seems a better option on this forum certainly.

 

[antohan]

It looks to me that Fergus'son's approach is much the same as Lippi's Juventus backed up by a defence largely chiselled out of Trapattoni's Juve. It would help if he was around to argue his case though, and I don't know much about Amancio and the player profile for him doesn't say anything new.

I've seen Amancio twice, always in high stakes games, and not particularly impressed. His claim to fame must be his Real side drawing a blank against Peñarol twice, including one at the Bernabeu in the second leg of the Intercontinental Cup when they were coming into the game needing a win.

The only thing of any note he did was completely squander a good goalscoring opportunity with a weak shot and overhitting a pass for a goal kick. And he was playing against an organised defence but no catenaccio nor anything remotely as good as what I have (the keeper was rather good though , although largely untroubled).

Spencer scored two in that game, one from a cheeky backheeled Joya assist, and another assist resulted in a third goal which was disallowed for a non-existent foul on the keeper. And that was a 32-year-old Joya who had turned into more of a late Giggs moving across the frontline and fashioning openings rather than relying on his physical attributes.

 

[sajeev]

Two teams which have been put together really well. If it wasn't for Garrincha I would have leaned the other way, as I can see Fergus' team really dominating and Matthaus being in control of the match. However, the attack has tipped the balance for me in favour of Anto. I am sure he will treasure my vote

 

[Fergus' son]

Have to think a bit more on this. Fergus needs to show people what Lothar is capable of, IMO if anyone can win the game for him it is him. He is in his comfort zone, he doesn't have an all time great midfielder to stick to so he can show up wherever he wants to and dominate the game from there. He's got the mental toughness and determination to rally his troops and get a win for his team, far more than anyone here. With Redondo providing great cover in midfield, if he goes on his gliding runs one after another it will really put anto's defense in disarray. Bastian is not capable of tracking him IMO.

That is the only way I see Fergus taking the game, if Matthaus takes it all on himself which he can really.

fecking close this.

This is a huge point that I thought I addressed in my write up, Redondo is the best platform for a midfielder next to him to be free to do what he does best, and that midfielder is Matthaus! With the license he has he is certainly going to be the most dominant presence in the midfield and affecting the game more than any other player.

 

[antohan]

Not seeing why Eto'o is getting so much criticism when Anto has Bastian vs Matthaus/Redondo in his team...Matthaus would eat him alive, particularly with such a solid foundation to work off.

Matthaus can munch on Schweini while the rest of my team get on with playing and scoring. You don't think Schweinsteiger is the hub for my side, do you?

 

[Fergus' son]

Matthaus can munch on Schweini while the rest of my team get on with playing and scoring. You don't think Schweinsteiger is the hub for my side, do you?

I think he's a weak link, and if Eto'o is getting criticism, then he should be too.

 

[antohan]

Two teams which have been put together really well. If it wasn't for Garrincha I would have leaned the other way, as I can see Fergus' team really dominating and Matthaus being in control of the match. However, the attack has tipped the balance for me in favour of Anto. I am sure he will treasure my vote

I do mate. Fergus has actually done what he should have all along.

I have bugger all idea what Amancio is still doing on the pitch, he must be really worried about being called out for lack of width.

I actually planned to play against a XMAS tree with Del piero and Kaká behind Eto'o, may as well say it now Netzer has left the pitch.

Terrible.

 

[antohan]

I think he's a weak link, and if Eto'o is getting criticism, then he should be too.

All I need him to do is make sure Matthaus doesn't let fly from outside the box. Not the hardest job for a world class midfielder really.

 

[Moby]

No, not really, Matthaus goals can be safely reduced to two categories: long shots and set pieces.

Speaking of which... Who on earth is drawing fouls at my end of the pitch? No one. How many fouls are Garrincha and Eusebio drawing? Plenty, probably including a peno for good measure.

If it's direct on goal I fancy Eusebio or Junior to bag one and aerially I have the upper hand. I have more big lads and known for scoring headed goals.

I sense you are just waiting for Kaká to come on in the second half to decide your vote. Bear one thing in mind though, if I'm up by then (and I would) I would be picking him off on the counter all day long.

Not really, I just think he is a lot better at taking Bastian out of the game than Netzer who's passes will never reach a tightly marker Eto'o.

It will make his goal threat a lot more than it is now but will that be enough to outweigh yours is still tough to decide.

As for Lothar, not exactly all were long rangers mate, he had great interplay with wide players and his late runs were almost perfect every time with ready to pull the trigger at anything put back to his feet. And he was pretty good at that. He knows how to create his own space. I think he will definitely be a huge problem for you specially since you don't have a proper DM and Bastian would never be able to track him the whole game.

 

[Red-Indian]

The smart thing Antohan seems to have done here is have a lot of ways for the ball to get to his dangerous front three. I don't know much from about Joya but give that much of the ball to Eusebio and Garrincha and they'll eventually punish you however good the defence is.

 

[Theon]

Knew Netzer wouldn't get any credit! Make the change please Aldo!

Daft change, get this Amancio lad off.

Or at least explain who he is and get some credentials down.

Netzer should stay on, but Kaka should get on too - he can drift wide all day and did for Milan, plus Eto'o can run the channels. Not a huge amount of width but its your best option IMO

 

[Balu]

Looks like I'm a few seconds too late, but Netzer at Gladbach had a lot of drive and directness and was capale of scoring important goals with amazing runs in the box. The setup is perfect for him as well. At his best, he did outshine Beckenbauer and Müller in the nationalteam.

Fergus'son really needs to get into this thread and start arguing his case. Antohan is way too convincing and makes his team sound invincible when it's clearly not. If Scirea intercepts a pass while Luis Enrique is on one of his runs, Fergus' team will walk right through Antohan's midfield and his defense will be in trouble, imo. Schweinsteiger (as much as I love him in today's game) is clearly out of his depth in that midfield battle. Eto'o seems to be underrated as well and someone needs to post a Matthäus compilation soon, that guy was basically a one man midfield and in no way makes Schuster's workrate up for Schweinsteiger's lack of quality in comparison to Matthäus and Redondo.

I haven't decided who to vote for and so far slightly prefer Antohan's team, but that's mainly because I'm as usual fascinated by his love for the players and believe him way too much. I really hope Fergus'son finds the time to give him a proper fight, his team is good enough for it, imo.

/edit:
Looks like, I missed a few posts, since I started typing. I'm way too slow .

 

[Theon]

I do mate. Fergus has actually done what he should have all along.

I have bugger all idea what Amancio is still doing on the pitch, he must be really worried about being called out for lack of width.

I actually planned to play against a XMAS tree with Del piero and Kaká behind Eto'o, may as well say it now Netzer has left the pitch.

Terrible.

So true, if he has made this move its an absolute shocker

 

[Theon]

The smart thing Antohan seems to have done here is have a lot of ways for the ball to get to his dangerous front three. I don't know much from about Joya but give that much of the ball to Eusebio and Garrincha and they'll eventually punish you however good the defence is.

I don't know Joya and I doubt 99% of the posters do, but Anto explains it so well. Obviously it helps because he was a Penarol fan himself but he gives a great indication of what Joya is doing and how talented he was

 

[Balu]

I don't know Joya and I doubt 99% of the posters do, but Anto explains it so well. Obviously it helps because he was a Penarol fan himself but he gives a great indication of what Joya is doing and how talented he was

I haven't seen him play at all, I think, but I already love him and am convinced he's a great player used perfectly. Do I know if he's any better than that Amancio guy? Not at all, but the only thing stuck in my head about Amancio is that gay picture Antohan posted in the draft thread.

 

[Theon]

I haven't seen him play at all, I think, but I already love him and am convinced he's a great player used perfectly. Do I know if he's any better than that Amancio guy? Not at all, but the only thing stuck in my head about Amancio is that gay picture Antohan posted in the draft thread.

feck, forgot about that. Gave me nightmares that picture

 

[Moby]

 

[antohan]

Not really, I just think he is a lot better at taking Bastian out of the game than Netzer who's passes will never reach a tightly marker Eto'o.

It will make his goal threat a lot more than it is now but will that be enough to outweigh yours is still tough to decide.

I agree. As I told you this morning when I changed my teamsheet, I thought he had been devious about painting Kaká as a sub and was going to start a XMAS tree.

Now we are playing a game I'm actually more comfortable in. More to soak, more room for the counter, but still not much edge from him. I have no idea what Amancio is doing on the pitch.

Just sent you an update to make.

 

[antohan]

Just sent this update to Aldo for those no longer checking the OP:

TACTICS UPDATE
With Fergus scrambling to make up for a bad start and throwing on Kaká instead of Netzer to get back into the game, Schuster drops back to play as a deep-lying playmaker and keep tabs on Kaká.

I will be under more pressure now, which I'm happy to soak while hitting Fergus on the counter with Schuster, Hierro, Schweini, Carlos Alberto or Junior all capable of providing an outball for Joya-Eusebio-Garrincha to hit Fergus on the break.

 

[antohan]

So true, if he has made this move its an absolute shocker

It's done, it's on the OP, otherwise I wouldn't have opened my mouth. He can no longer do what I thought was his best option which was

-----Redondo
Matthaus---Netzer
---Kaka-Del Piero
------Eto'o

It just struck me this morning thinking about how he told you he would have width today. I never in a million years thought he meant Amancio would provide it. If Schweini is supposed to be out of his depth Amancio has just disappeared into a cave.

 

[antohan]

I haven't seen him play at all, I think, but I already love him and am convinced he's a great player used perfectly. Do I know if he's any better than that Amancio guy? Not at all, but the only thing stuck in my head about Amancio is that gay picture Antohan posted in the draft thread.

I didn't even know I would be playing him then!

It's unfortunate there's bugger all on the internet about the 1961 Libertadores and Intercontinental Cup. I could post a clip which goes through the 1966 Libertadores finals vs. River and the Intercontinental ones with Real but it's all in Spanish and the editing usually just shows the goal and not the buildup. As I said earlier, you would see more a late Giggs than an early one as he was 32 and past his peak by then.

Overall in the 4 games that are available Peñarol scored 10 goals, 1 by Joya, three assisted by Joya and I would also have to add the wrongly disallowed one . I downloaded and tried edit bits but the Windows editing thing keeps crashing on me. I can send youtube links and minutes to look out for.

Much easier to put it another way, how many forward partnership have the popular appeal to have songs written about them 40 years on? Cover your ears!

 

[Balu]

It's done, it's on the OP, otherwise I wouldn't have opened my mouth. He can no longer do what I thought was his best option which was

-----Redondo
Matthaus---Netzer
---Kaka-Del Piero
------Eto'o

It just struck me this morning thinking about how he told you he would have width today. I never in a million years thought he meant Amancio would provide it. If Schweini is supposed to be out of his depth Amancio has just disappeared into a cave.

His goal at 0:54:50 doesn't look half bad:


I don't have enough time to watch the whole game, but he looks quite good in that compilation:


I don't speak Spanish, so no idea what these guys are saying, but I'm sure he deserves a bit more credit than what we have given him so far.

I don't want to take over for Fergus' here, I just wanted to get that annoying picture out of my head . Hope that's okay.

 

[Moby]

Think I'll go with anto here. He's got a clear cut plan which will work and has the players who can deliver brutally and hurt the opposition. Tough luck for Fergus, as great as his team his he has come against a player who is known to sweep apart defenders at will and that has tested his formidable defense more than anyone could have.

I can see Fergus scoring now, with Kaka adding taking anto's midfielders all over the pitch and leaving great space to attack for Lothar. Amancio would be a handy option to stretch the pitch and hence allow even more space in the middle. However with this tactic you are left wide open at the back and the counter looks deadly.

anto would really need to upgrade his defensive midfield IMO. He was lucky to meet an opponent who lacked an all time great number 10, if he was up against someone like a Platini he would have been in trouble!

 

[antohan]

Balu, he scored a goal in acres of space against a one man defence, don't ask me why Partizan where so gung-ho when 1-0 up. No idea, but any of the players on the pitch could score that goal. He is not playing left wing there either.

 

[Balu]

Netzer is criminally underrated .

Balu, he scored a goal in acres of space against a one man defence, don't ask me why Partizan where so gung-ho when 1-0 up. No idea, but any of the players on the pitch could score that goal.

Yeah, but he scored the equaliser in an european cup final that changed the whole game, that still deserves some credit. I'm not saying he would score a similar goal against your team, of course not, especially not after your tactical change.

 

[antohan]

Netzer is criminally underrated .

I know, I only pointed out Schuster had more workrate on him (which he did) but wasn't looking forward to him having more options to go for once Kaká entered the pitch. As it stands it has all fallen back squarely on Redondo, which isn't bad at all, but makes my job easier really.