Decades Draft Tournament : Fergus' son vs antohan

[Moby]

The aim of this poll is to decide which team will win based on all the players being at their respective peaks. The player profiles have been linked in both tactics so please go through them to read a brief description about all the players involved in the game!

Fergus' son's tactics

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My team is built on an undeniably strong foundation with my defence being a brilliant unit, not only consisting of the very best players ever in their position but also extremely complementary partnerships. Javier Zanetti is not only a brilliant defender but he will have room to bomb up and down the wing knowing he is being covered by the 'the rock' Tarcisio Burgnich who himself played as an old fashioned right back on a number of occasions. Burgnich also provides the perfect foil to Scirea, one of the greatest defenders of all time who has his long time Italy and Juventus left back partner, Antonio Cabrini, by his side.​

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That formidable defence has in front of them Redondo and Matthaus, two of the greatest in their position. Both are extremely adept at combining the defensive stability of the very best players with real creative and attacking input. Both Matthaus and Redondo were known to own whichever area of the pitch they occupied, together they give each other the license to break forward when the oppurtunity arises, so neither will be restricted. They also provide a platform for the greatest German playmaker of all time, Gunter Netzer. The flamboyant German provides the extra craft, compsure and creativy to ideally balance with his fellow midfielders. He can be playing one two with Matthaus or Eto'o as easily as he will be finding the feet of Del Piero or Amancio.​

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My attacking is also nicely balanced. Del Piero will play off the left, some of his very best form during the 90's came from that position and with Cabrini, and Redondo, to support his flank he'll have a license to joining the midfield battle or get right in behind Eto'o when neccessary. Eto'o himself is a very versatile striker, and deadly during his peak. He has often played with strike partners situated on the wing in a similar vein to Del Piero, aswell as more traditional wingers, like Amancio, who will provide a pivotal outlet. Amancio, a key member of a very successful Real Madrid side, can go out wide and create space for my strong midfield runners to break into. Amancio getting to the byline and cutting back for Matthaus to shoot seems like a likely scenario.​

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My wingbacks are amongst the best of all time and can provide great support to my forward options knowing the have capable midfielders and defenders covering for them, whilst my attack is perfect poised and waiting to strike. My team contains a great balance between defensive stability, and a clear potent attacking threat and is suited to deal with various types of opposition, from tricky wingers, to bullish midfielders or strikers.​

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PLAYER PROFILES​

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TEAM Fergus' son​

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Starting formation (switch made while losing 3-5)​

Spoiler

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Starting formation (switch made while leading 7-4)​

Spoiler

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antohan's tactics

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Both sides have strong defences and defensive setups and I won't bother try pick holes there. What will decide the game is the quality differential upfront, which is significant.

I have two of the world's best ever there in Garrincha and Eusebio, both World Cup top scorers and an inspiration to their respective teams. The trio is completed by a lesser know player in Juan Joya, the man whose penetrative runs and crosses made Alberto Spencer the top Copa Libertadores scorer to this day. Eusebio being an upgrade on his former partner in crime.

Much will be made of the "midfield battle". I've seen no point in moving Desailly to midfield as I don't see Fergus posing the sort of threat that would warrant that. Instead, Schuster and Luis Enrique will be accompanied by Bastian Schweinsteiger, currently the most complete all-round midfielder out there.

I have a strong central midfield TRIO. Schuster as the advanced playmaker and Luis Enrique as the box-to-box midfielder will join the attack more, while Schweini is being asked to remain more conservative but not in anything ressembling a Makelele role.

True, decade considerations aside his two DMs are stronger in that regard. Schuster was the best German playmaker of the last 30 years but Netzer the best before that. Where Schuster does top him is in his runs and one-twos, work rate and defensive contribution, something I want to draw upon to make up for any perceived gaps with the other two.

Effectively, when recovering all three of my men are chomping at their heels, not just two with a passenger waiting for the ball to be recovered. Once in possession, Luis Enrique's runs will be a nightmare on the same side that Garrincha is dragging markers out of position, as will Schuster's. Both pose a greater goalscoring threat than anything Fergus' midfield has to offer. Luis Enrique alone is more likely to score from a header than Fergus' entire front six could jointly manage, and with crosses a certainty for me that's not a minor issue.

Even if you were to assume the midfield battle is tight, my creative engine can't be shutdown. It's not like I plan to run my way through his midfield unchallenged. I don't just have Schuster and Schweini but Carlos Alberto, Hierro and Junior all capable of spraying passes all over the pitch. Move on to them and someone else has been let loose, i.e. my service can't be shut down purely because two great DMs are on the pitch, and with my forwards ably supported I know we are more likely to score a few.


TACTICS UPDATE
With Fergus scrambling to make up for a bad start and throwing on Kaká instead of Netzer to get back into the game, Schuster drops back to play as a deep-lying playmaker and keep tabs on Kaká.

I will be under more pressure now, which I'm happy to soak while hitting Fergus on the break with Schuster, Hierro, Schweini, Carlos Alberto or Junior all capable of providing an outball for Joya-Eusebio-Garrincha to hit Fergus on the break.

PLAYER PROFILES​

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[antohan]

...

 

[antohan]

The only goal threat I'm worried about with Fergus is a Matthaus long ranger, which means everyone is aware he should be closed down on and not allowed to shoot. It's not "easier said than done", players of this quality are likely to execute appropriately on that instruction.

Notice he mostly has a bunch of midgets as well and his taller players are not known for being very good at headers. I own the aerial route, both in attack and defence.

 

[antohan]

Hello?

 

[Theon]

Tough one this, I don't think any of Antohans midfielders would get into Fergus's starting 11, but he has the much better attack

 

[antohan]

This is fun...

BTW, Fergus, none of your men have one of these.

2-0 already

 

[paceme]

Got to say, I don't think Cabrini is capable of stopping garrincha, but fergus's defenders are excellent. It's very much Fergus's defence against Antohans attack IMO. Going to have a think before I vote.

 

[antohan]

Tough one this, I don't think any of Antohans midfielders would get into Fergus's starting 11, but he has the much better attack

I had actually commented on that in the op and then changed it because I was going too much about his DMs.

I would take Redondo ahead of Schweini. Matthaus has better credentials than Luis Enrique, and I would have him in my squad ahead of Lucho, but I really appreciate Lucho's contributon on that right side. He is perfect to do the box-to-box on Garrincha's flank.

The one I'm 100% clear on is Schuster, he is the better all-rounder relative to Netzer. I can see why Fergus would be happy to have Netzer ahead of Schuster because the other two make up for it. In my case Schuster completes and rounds off my midfield better.

I have three who may be a notch below defensively (a notch below but still at World Class level though). But it's three working hard vs. two at the other end.

 

[antohan]

Got to say, I don't think Cabrini is capable of stopping garrincha, but fergus's defenders are excellent. It's very much Fergus's defence against Antohans attack IMO. Going to have a think before I vote.

I suggest you look at them two Football's Greatest videos, a joy to watch.

Eusebio's shots

I don't have a bad word to say about Fergus' defence. Even the best will concede against that front 5.

Two World Cup top scorers there, a winger with a cracking record and the inseparable partner of the Libertadores all-time top scorer. Schuster's verticality... but Lucho, Lucho will be immense here, he will just show up unmarked as everyone goes "I had Eusebio", "I had to cover Cabrini", "I was tracking Joya"... No one will pay attention to his runs, and he will hurt them.

 

[antohan]

Why NM? This is exactly what I was going on about yesterday in your game. Two great DMs can't stop service when you have not just Schuster and Schweini but Hierro, Carlos Alberto and Junior playmaking from deep (or right/left midfield) if needed.

There's too many ball-spraying hotspots for two men to cover and they can't be onto more than two of them at any one time.

 

[NM]

Why NM? This is exactly what I was going on about yesterday in your game. Two great DMs can't stop service when you have not just Schuster and Schweini but Hierro, Carlos Alberto and Junior playmaking from deep (or left/right midfield) if needed.

There's too many ball-spraying hotspots for two men to cover and they can't be onto more than two of them at any one time.

I'll explain later. I voted with my head, not my heart. Probably after 10 hours. im out. sorry.

 

[Gio]

Normally Anto is a consistently safe and vote-worthy bet in these drafts, but Fergus'son has compiled an exceptional back six that has really impressed me. A very complementary team as well, with natural partnerships all across the park in Scirea and Burgnich, Burgnich and Zanetti, Matthaus and Redondo, Del Piero and Eto'o. Where I can see Antohan getting some joy out of this though is in overloading the right flank given the inclination Luis Enrique and Carlos Alberto will have to gang up on Cabrini.

 

[antohan]

Indeed Gio, I do like the back four he put together and how well they work with each other. Not that there aren't complementary partnerships at my end though.

I don't see Luis Enrique ganging up on Cabrini though, just the other two, prompting Scirea to be constantly on red alert, which Luis Enrique can take advantage of either stopping Scirea from covering or being left unattended. That's the beauty with Luis Enrique, in attack he becomes as good as a fourth forward. More often than not he found himself on the ball, in the box and completely unchallenged.

Can that backline sustain such pressure for 90 mins? I doubt it. Certainly has its work cut out while my back four are quite comfortable here.

 

[antohan]

If anyone is playing it by ear with Eusebio I strongly encourage them to see the Football's Greatest clip as it provides a better all-round profile with input from the likes of Pelé and Bobby Charlton, who both faced him a fair few times.

The venom, power and accuracy of his shots is just something else, as was that 6th gear he could draw upon.

 

[Fergus' son]

Got to say, I don't think Cabrini is capable of stopping garrincha, but fergus's defenders are excellent. It's very much Fergus's defence against Antohans attack IMO. Going to have a think before I vote.

Scirea, who was Cabrinis long time teammate will also be helping out, along with Redondo. On the flip side, Garrincha will be contributing nothing at all defensively on that side which has a number of threat from my team, Cabrini bursting forward, the passing and craft of Scirea and Redondo, aswell as the threats from Del Piero and Eto'o running the channel.

 

[Jayvin]

Fergus' attack doesn't really do much for me, but his midfield is incredible. Conversely, Anto's attack is brilliant but I'm not sold on his midfield trio. Both sides have a great defence. Tough decision...

 

[antohan]

Del Piero and Amancio won't be contributing anything of note defensively either, don't see why you would pick on Garrincha on that basis. His best defensive contribution is the fact that if Cabrini goes forward and gets caught out you are dead in the water.

Joya-Eusebio-Garrincha on the counter and in space would destroy you, no two ways about that.

 

[Theon]

Kaka should be playing, no idea who Amacio is or how highly he was rated, and Del Piero on the left doesn't do much for me

Netzer should be getting some more credit though

 

[antohan]

Fergus' attack doesn't really do much for me, but his midfield is incredible. Conversely, Anto's attack is brilliant but I'm not sold on his midfield trio. Both sides have a great defence. Tough decision...

Attacking: both Luis Enrique and Schuster pose a greater and more varied goalscoring threat than Fergus' midfielders. I don't think that's even worth elaborating on.

Recovery: all three work on it. Schweini and Luis Enrique need no explanation. Schuster was even used as a libero at Real later in his career when his legs started going (had a bad knee injury from his Barca days too). Netzer will contribute nothing that compares to that and will just wait for the other two to get the ball back for him, which evens the scales (I prefer three world class midfielders working on recovery than two better ones myself).

A key point though is, I repeat, that he can't shutdown the service however good those two are. Hierro, Carlos Alberto and Junior are all extremely competent playmakers from deep. Junior was the Serie A player of the Year as a left-midfield playmaker for Torino. There's no singular playmaking focal point to choke so however good those two DMs are they can't stop me servicing my frontline.

 

[Gio]

Del Piero is in danger of being under-rated given:

(a) he played much of his best football in the same wide left role in Lippi's 4-3-3
(b) how exhilirating he was pre-injury in his early-20s - named in the European Sports Magazine's Team of the Year three times in a row.

 

[antohan]

Netzer should be getting some more credit though

I'm not particularly worried about the forwards he is trying to play the ball to. And he does nothing defensively. It's not an ideal setting for him to have any impact really.

 

[Moby]

Indeed Gio, I do like the back four he put together and how well they work with each other. Not that there aren't complementary partnerships at my end though.

I don't see Luis Enrique ganging up on Cabrini though, just the other two, prompting Scirea to be constantly on red alert, which Luis Enrique can take advantage of either stopping Scirea from covering or being left unattended. That's the beauty with Luis Enrique, in attack he becomes as good as a fourth forward. More often than not he found himself on the ball, in the box and completely unchallenged.

Can that backline sustain such pressure for 90 mins? I doubt it. Certainly has its work cut out while my back four are quite comfortable here.

Probably because he was playing against ordinary La Liga defenders and not such greats. Scirea in my mind is the best when it comes to anticipating danger, so much that he read almost each and every of Maradona's passes when he played against us and reduced Maradona to depend on a free kick to get a solitary goal.

Also when they are defending, both Redondo and Matthaus will drop back and help out, so I doubt Luis Enrique will ever find any space at all, let alone being unmarked against such great readers of the game. I honestly think he can soak up your attack, but I doubt he has enough going in his own attack to trouble you. I really love Desailly and he should do well against Eto'o.

Bizarre to drop Kaka. Fergus has to play on the counter here and Kaka is one of the best players on the counter I have ever seen.

 

[Theon]

Del Piero is in danger of being under-rated given:

(a) he played much of his best football in the same wide left role in Lippi's 4-3-3
(b) how exhilirating he was pre-injury in his early-20s - named in the European Sports Magazine's Team of the Year three times in a row.

The last point is probably true, Fergus was picking between him and Totti and for me Totti was the better player but what you're saying could be relevant there.

 

[Theon]

Bizarre to drop Kaka. Fergus has to play on the counter here and Kaka is one of the best players on the counter I have ever seen.

I see it the other way around!

Agree on dropping Kaka and I guess that might impact the control of the game with Amacio playing (no idea what his style was), but I still think Fergus would heavily dominate the game and midfield. It's Anto I see countering here

 

[antohan]

Probably because he was playing against ordinary La Liga defenders and not such greats.

He had a 1 in 2 record in Europe. While his time as a forward may skew his record, his highest scoring season was van Gaal's first, 26 goals playing from midfield.

I'm not saying he is my most dangerous forward by any means, just that with Garrincha and Carlos Alberto giving Cabrini a torrid time Scirea will have to be more focused on that danger and rely on Redondo tracking him, as you point out. It's not just that he has to perform that flawlessly, aerially Luis Enrique would have his ass on a plate.

It's very difficult to defend a header from a cross when you are running towards goal tracking your man.

 

[antohan]

I see it the other way around!

Agree on dropping Kaka and I guess that might impact the control of the game with Amacio playing (no idea what his style was), but I still think Fergus would heavily dominate the game and midfield. It's Anto I see countering here

I disagree on every single point but not keen on starting a spam war with you. If I'm countering that's an even more ideal scenario for my front three, I don't emphasise it because I don't expect to be under any sort of sustained pressure here but Joya-Eusebio-Garrincha would take some beating on the counter. It's the sort of scenario the first two specialised in. Have you seen Eusebio at all?

 

[NM]

Only guy voting for Fergus is me? I should quit. I'm shit at this! Can't draft and can't vote!

 

[antohan]

Only guy voting for Fergus is me? I should quit. I'm shit at this! Can't draft and can't vote!

I sense a lot of the managers are waiting it out. Some seem to want to vote for Fergus but can't really work out how he will score at all. Don't feel too bad mate

 

[Thisistheone]

Only guy voting for Fergus is me? I should quit. I'm shit at this! Can't draft and can't vote!

It's not that black and white when voting on such tight games as these. It's a matter of opinion. If you vote for the guy who ends up losing, doesn't mean you don't know what you're on about. I'm personally waiting to hear from Fergus before voting. Anto has made a cracking start to the match. His pitch graphic is clever! The entire pitch looks covered

 

[Theon]

I disagree on every single point but not keen on starting a spam war with you.

There was only really one point there so not sure what you are diagreeing with.

What I said was that your midfield will be dominated and I see Fergus controlling the game meaning you will be reliant on the counter - if you disagree please explain why because looking at the teams it seems pretty clear than Fergus has by far the better midfield.

In fact it isn't even close.

 

[Gio]

The last point is probably true, Fergus was picking between him and Totti and for me Totti was the better player but what you're saying could be relevant there.

Think as a classic number 10 Totti would be your man. Surprised he wasn't picked to be honest, even though the 70s were a deep pool of talent.

 

[antohan]

There was only really one point there so not sure what you are diagreeing with.

What I said was that your midfield will be dominated and I see Fergus controlling the game meaning you will be reliant on the counter - if you disagree please explain why because looking at the teams it seems pretty clear than Fergus has by far the better midfield.

In fact it isn't even close.

I've explained my view of the midfield before mate. You seem to think games are all about some black hole in midfield where the battle is won or lost while I emphasised the presence of Hierro, Carlos Alberto and Junior spraying passes (or just running with the ball) and making the centre of midfield less critical to provide service upfront.

I reckon possession is somewhat even, with my side a bit more direct and always on the verge of scoring and Fergus faffing about with the ball but not getting anywhere.

If you think he has the lion's share of possession and I'm the one soaking pressure then by all means consider what my frontline would do in space and on the break. It ain't pretty for a Fergus backline that is most comfortable sitting back.

 

[antohan]

His pitch graphic is clever! The entire pitch looks covered

If I picked the footballuser big shirt one it would look more or less the same. I just had major issues with Carlos Alberto as it doesn't let you do two lines and to fit the length of his name it almost deployed him as a DM

 

[Thisistheone]

There was only really one point there so not sure what you are diagreeing with.

What I said was that your midfield will be dominated and I see Fergus controlling the game meaning you will be reliant on the counter - if you disagree please explain why because looking at the teams it seems pretty clear than Fergus has by far the better midfield.

In fact it isn't even close.

Agree that Fergus' midfield is superior. It's the best midfield in the entire draft, imo.

The front 3 is my only concern with his side. Anto's team just looks like it has more goals in it...

 

[Theon]

I've explained my view of the midfield before mate. You seem to think games are all about some black hole in midfield where the battle is won or lost while I emphasised the presence of Hierro, Carlos Alberto and Junior spraying passes (or just running with the ball) and making the centre of midfield less critical to provide service upfront.

I reckon possession is somewhat even, with my side a bit more direct and always on the verge of scoring and Fergus faffing about with the ball but not getting anywhere. If you think he has the lion's share of possession and I'm the one soaking pressure then by all means consider what my frontline would do in space and on the break. It ain't pretty for a Fergus backline that is most comfortable sitting back.

Nah I don't think its all about the midfield man, but it is relevant and you're making out its all about the attack. Which it isn't either.

Attack goes to you, midfield goes to Fergus. That is all I'm saying. It doesn't help that Fergus isn't around but going off the thread so far its like Matthaus and Redondo aren't playing. Like I said I think he has the edge in midfield and I think that would show itself in him controlling the game somewhat and pushing you back a tad.

Ayee, read the point about Hierro, Alberto and Junior. But he doesn't have bad ballplayers in defence either with Scirea the pick of the bunch but his whole defence is really good.

Utilising counter attacks isnt even a bad thing to do. From your description it would get the best out of Joya and with Garrincha and Eusebio I could easily see a goal that way. Probably a few.

The problem Fergus has is scoring a goal, it's a weak frontline at this level and nothing compared to yours or the rest of his team in midfield and defence.

 

[antohan]

Gio, Lucho is very disappointed

 

[antohan]

Nah I don't think its all about the midfield man, but it is relevant and you're making out its all about the attack. Which it isn't either.

Ultimately, games are won scoring goals. I said from the outset both defences and defensive setups (i.e. including DMs) are strong but that the crucial difference is the ability to score here.

Attack goes to you, midfield goes to Fergus. That is all I'm saying. It doesn't help that Fergus isn't around but going off the thread so far its like Matthaus and Redondo aren't playing. Like I said I think he has the edge in midfield and I think that would show itself in him controlling the game somewhat and pushing you back a tad.

Ayee, read the point about Hierro, Alberto and Junior. But he doesn't have bad ballplayers in defence either with Scirea the pick of the bunch but his whole defence is really good.

I didn't say he didn't have good ball players though. I don't care how many he has, as he can't score further up the pitch. It's not a competition over who has more players able to pick a pass.

The reason I emphasise that is none of his front four do any significant defensive work so his ball recovery is down to two outstanding DMs, but since I have more ball players than they can cover I will still be able to execute my transition to attack. Tell me how Matthaus and Redondo can choke service if it is spread across Schuster, Schweinsteiger, Hierro, Junior and Carlos Alberto. They can be on two at any one time, and whichever two they are taking care of will determine the other three who will be doing it. Simple concept really.

Utilising counter attacks isnt even a bad thing to do. From your description it would get the best out of Joya and with Garrincha and Eusebio I could easily see a goal that way. Probably a few.

Not at all. I love fast lightning and devastating counters and I had that in mind when picking Eusebio and Joya. Garrincha escapes any tactical instructions, he just plays the way he plays and that's fine by me.

If I have more possession/a more even game then Luis Enrique, Schuster and my fullbacks joining in is a bonus, but I would quite happily soak and place the outball for those three. I just don't think that's how this game would work at all though.

That said, in any game there are occasions when you can catch the oppo out on the counter, it doesn't need to be a game-long strategy. When those opportunities arise, you are right, I will score a few.

 

[Fergus' son]

Sorry guys, can't contribute much til later on.

What I think my biggest strength is the fact that my better defence (undeniable IMO) consists of players that are very capable of starting attacks. Scirea is by far the best ball playing defender, Zanetti and Cabrini are two of the best all round full backs of all time (Zanetti the best), Redondo arguably the greatest attacking defensive midfielder and Matthaus the greatest all round midfielder (one man midfielder iv seen him described as). The whole team can transition very quickly from defence to attack because of this and my forward line is full of dangerous runners who provide an array of threats. I can see my team preventing the opposition scoring and nicking a couple due to my drive and quality particularly in midfield.

 

[antohan]

This is really strange. The only part of my drafting where I left future upgrades and popularity out of the equation was the fullbacks, precisely because I could see some strong midfields forming and wanted to ensure the service was spread around and not compromised. I may as well have picked Zanetti and kept that 70s slot sorted throughout instead of giving myself the problem of losing my strker or fullback if Pelé was available, just to pick the less popular option in Carlos Alberto (just watch Brazil 70 and see how many moves he starts with his passes). Junior I also picked relatively early to mirror that on the other side.


No one seems to notice though

 

[Gio]

Gio, Lucho is very disappointed

No wonder. He's up against an even better model of himself in Matthaus.