Mazzola's an inside-right-cum-striker asked to attack the space between Alba and Nesta. A lovely fit.
Decades Draft Tournament : Cutch vs Gio
- Thread starter Moby
- Start date
Essien played his best football with Makelele behind him giving him a license to get forward. In a 2 with David's he'll spend too much time trying to win the ball back against the extra man and also with Messi coming deep from a False 9 basically making it 4 v 2
Agree that Alba won't be isolated here in this setup. He has Breitner and Nesta to come to his aid and a more than willing to track back Stoichkov.
I don't fault their workrate, I just don't see them contributing much in the build up or the final third while Cutch has one chap doing the necessary job on Hagi (Mauro Silva), Rivera pulling strings and Breitner providing as much graft and grit but also bombing forward much the same way that got him and Kalle referred to as "Breitnigge". He is on the left and Kalle on the right though, I'll give you that but he is still a much more dangerous player than Davids or Essien, even both combined to be honest.
Messi would surely destroy any side he comes up against that isn't playing a dedicated holding midfielder to keep an eye on him, particularly 1 that's already getting outnumbered 3 v 2 in centre midfield. It would be Utd v Barca CL final all over again
Less of this rubbish about 4v2 in midfield. You're playing a 4-3-3, I'm playing a 4-2-3-1. That's 3 midfielders for you and 5 for me. When one of your central three is Rivera, a great playmaker, but as light as a feather and as much use in a midfield battle as a chocolate teapot, you can forget about dictating matters in there.
Jordi Alba's problem is he, like the rest of the Barca defence, gets exposed whenever his team doesn't have 75% possession. Great to have if you've got that much of the ball and he can link up with the likes of Xavi and Iniesta, not a great fit in an even match between several physical players.
I went back over Barcelona's last five or six games and he's a fault time and time again:
Bayern v Barca, Robben and Mueller bully him and the rest of the defence.
Barca v Betis - here he is out of position and at fault for a goal after a matter of seconds
Barca v Bilbao - here he is making a mess of the first goal and losing his man again for the second (3.50)
Barcelona v Malaga - here he is making an effort at closing down the cross that would keep Alan Hansen ranting on for hours (2.55)
And that's all within the space of the last few games. He's a liability at this level and is bound to get exposed.
I went back over Barcelona's last five or six games and he's a fault time and time again:
Bayern v Barca, Robben and Mueller bully him and the rest of the defence.
Barca v Betis - here he is out of position and at fault for a goal after a matter of seconds
Barca v Bilbao - here he is making a mess of the first goal and losing his man again for the second (3.50)
Barcelona v Malaga - here he is making an effort at closing down the cross that would keep Alan Hansen ranting on for hours (2.55)
And that's all within the space of the last few games. He's a liability at this level and is bound to get exposed.
Problem is that Mazzola is not the sort of player who would take advantage of the opportunities above (bar the Athletic goal). He was more likely to slow down the tempo of a game, not beat the offside trap and leave Alba trailing. In fact, he would mostly act as the pivot for Facchetti to do the overlapping run. Nesta and Breitner also provide much better support than the lackadaisical efforts from Barca's other defenders.
I don't see much going on on that flank, it is Suurbier who is up against it.
I don't see much going on on that flank, it is Suurbier who is up against it.
Reckon Essien will be the worst midfielder on the pitch, don't think he belongs in the draft. Vastly overrated on the Caf maybe because of our desperation for a midfielder..
Anyway can't see beyond Cutch's team, fantastic front four.
Anyway can't see beyond Cutch's team, fantastic front four.
I think i've the perfect platform to gain a control of the middle of the park, and with the attacking threat i have up top, think i can pin your side back for long periods. I think your side will generally be quite deep anyway given the structure of your midfield and the Messi factor. I don't really fear your right hand side at all and if anything would look to target it with Alba and Stoitchkov in tandem, with the benefit also of having the combative Breitner and the covering Nesta.
I like Essien but he's a bit out of his depth here with Breitner (World Cup Winner and a scorer in 2 finals, silver in Balon D'Or), Mauro Silva (Influential World Cup Winner) or Rivera (European cup winner and Balon D'Or winner in same year). I don't really think Davids deserves to be mentioned in the same breath either with 2 of those 3.
That would akin to saying Roy Keane doesn't deserve mention in the same breath. Davids is the most physically imposing midfielder on the park. He had no peers in the late 1990s and early 2000s: an easy choice for the XIs of the Tournament in 1998 and 2000. Played in 4 Champions League Finals and with him in midfield Holland were never outplayed or outfought at either major tournament in '98 and '00.
As for Essien Cutch, you had him in your own top 10 players in the world a couple of years ago. And that was a few seasons after his peak. He's not Breitner, but he'll hold his own in this match.
Agree about Suurbier. I did think about picking him, but frankly didn't rate him beyond his energy. On the ball he was pretty poor and is one of these players who were successful by association. In effect if he wasn't part of Holland's great 1970s team, he'd be nowhere near this draft (and probably wouldn't get into a '40s one). Up against Boniek and the overlapping Facchetti, he'll have a hell of a job on his hands. The only flank support he'll get is from Rummenige - a striker - and possibly Rivera (not much use going back to his own goal) or Mauro Silva (freeing up space for Hagi).
From what i've seen and read thats simply not true. His main strengths was his ability on the ball, and technically he was very strong. The odd time he was a bit over agressive and his crossing could have been better but you don't play for Ajax for 13 years and Holland for 12 years if you're poor on the ball.
Skip to 1:50 in this video for an example of him going forward. Ok, the shot was rubbish but thats a good example of his attacking prowess.
E
That shot 
Yeah but he had a reputation for crossing the ball straight out of the park and wasn't a great defender. At fault for 3 of the 5 goals Holland conceded at Euro '76, he didn't cover himself in glory in the 1978 World Cup Final when he should've been sent off for a horror challenge and missed a tackle in the run-up to the first goal.
I did rate Essien a lot at Chelsea but ultimately his career will be seen as a bit unfulfilled. Injuries played their part obviously but he's never made a notable contribution for club or country to even come close to Breitners and Riveras at the very highest level, in International and European competitions.
Goal 1 - Lobbed ball into box from a free. Suurbier appears to be standing in the wall. Not at fault
Goal 2 - Cross into box with 2 centrehalfs caught out. Doesnt appear to be at fault
Goal 3- Holland split right open through the middle. Doesnt appear to be at fault.
Goal 4 - Could perhaps have charged shot down better but 2 centre halfs closer more at fault
Goal 5 - Direct Freekick. Doesnt appear to be at fault
Cutch is right here Gio, maybe the second goal there's a case that he should have been tracking the man on the far post but it all depends on what the tactics were. By all means it looks as if it was for him to deal with that.
The "missed tackle" in the run-up to Argentina's first goal was also a desperate attempt at tackling/intercepting a ball and I would expect any CB to "miss it" 99% of the times. It was beyond his reach really, kudos for trying if anything.
Edit: in fact, it's not even him as he didn't start.
The "missed tackle" in the run-up to Argentina's first goal was also a desperate attempt at tackling/intercepting a ball and I would expect any CB to "miss it" 99% of the times. It was beyond his reach really, kudos for trying if anything.
Edit: in fact, it's not even him as he didn't start.
Going forward we have a lot of potential to make inroads down the left. Facchetti is the best left wing-back of all time, has extraordinary pace and will overlap to devastating effect. Boniek will have the beating of Suurbier on his own, and with Facchetti's support, will leave him for dead. Either cutting back on to his right foot, feeding Hagi or Charles, or playing in Facchetti to go for goal or stick it on John Charles's big Welsh head.
Down to 9 men chasing the game in the last 5 minutes of extra time was the circumstances! Neeskens and Van Hanegem sent off so team in complete disarray. The other game was a rather meaningless 3rd/4th place playoff that they won.
Think you're clutching at straws a bit Gio after giving up on trying to expose the other fullback as a weak link
Ahapologies, must've been the second goal. I watched highlights of the final a few weeks ago so presuming my memory is right on the bad tackle, unless that was Poortvleit, albeit it was a dirty game in any case.
Alba's been exposed - the evidence is compelling - much like Eyzaguirre was.Down to 9 men chasing the game in the last 5 minutes of extra time was the circumstances! Neeskens and Van Hanegem sent off so team in complete disarray. The other game was a rather meaningless 3rd/4th place playoff that they won.
Think you're clutching at straws a bit Gio after giving up on trying to expose the other fullback as a weak link
Suurbier's a better defender but still got his work cut out trying to live with Boniek, never mind when Facchetti turns on the after-burners.
Have to say, I'm stunned at what a huge difference the sides the wide players are on makes.
Mazzola could be getting as much (probably more) joy with Facchetti on the left flank and I would fancy Boniek against Alba. It's not just the attacking, the defensive workrate from Boniek is much greater, which would also come handy on the flank facing the most trouble (can't currently see Cutch's right flank doing much out wide, although Kalle will be a handful in between Facchetti and Vierchowod).
It's a shame really, although Corbatta was a different proposition. Funny thing, searched "harry gregg and john charles" earlier to see if I could find a precedent and up comes Corbatta's mug with a link to Gio's write-up
Mazzola could be getting as much (probably more) joy with Facchetti on the left flank and I would fancy Boniek against Alba. It's not just the attacking, the defensive workrate from Boniek is much greater, which would also come handy on the flank facing the most trouble (can't currently see Cutch's right flank doing much out wide, although Kalle will be a handful in between Facchetti and Vierchowod).
It's a shame really, although Corbatta was a different proposition. Funny thing, searched "harry gregg and john charles" earlier to see if I could find a precedent and up comes Corbatta's mug with a link to Gio's write-up
Think I've got the resources to deal with your threat on that side as I've covered in the OP. I expect Mauro Silva to put out a lot of fires on that side. When he comes across he'll be taking Boniek, and Suurbier the overlapping Facchetti. If the ball does come into the box i've got probably the bravest keeper of all time Harry Gregg who will come for everything, and the immensely powerful aerially Ayala to mark Charles. Also have Nesta in there just generally being awesome at stuff.
As I also mentioned in the OP in addition i have the hardworking Stoitchkov to swap sides if needs be.
As I also mentioned in the OP in addition i have the hardworking Stoitchkov to swap sides if needs be.
If Silva is getting pulled out wide, Hagi will have space in the middle. Space he would surely take advantage of given the pedigree of his left peg either going direct for goal or feeding in Mazzola or Charles, both of whom have fantastic goalscoring records.
Really my left side is just as likely if not more than Gio's to get significant reward in this game. The difference is that Gio has not gone with a specialist holding midfielder where i can utilise Mauro Silva to help out on that side where possible. There's every chance i'll have 2v1 ganging up on Armfield unless Mazzola is extremely diligent at working back. I'm gonna have to trust Gio that Armfield is pretty handy but anyone will struggle if they get 2v1. If there were doubts about Alba defensively there can't really be any about him going forward. Gio is sure to be got at down that side I would have thought.
If there's a notable attack down the left that would take priority, that the forward Rummenigge hasnt tracked, then Silva will move across. In that case Rivera or Breitner (Whoever is closest) will take Hagi, with the other probably monitoring Essien. Nesta will also be free and covering so don't see much of a problem really.
The advantage with the double pivot (the 2 in the 4-2-3-1) is that they can support wide areas better than just one man. Bit like why Spain play it and not Barca's one, and the time they did employ it against Brazil recently, well the less said about that the better. Whereas if Silva gets pulled out, there are big issues in the space he has vacated.
With his tactical and positional nous he's not going to be recklessly steaming out there, but he will look to try to eliminate problems at the source. He may only be required 4-5 times in the game. Due to the quality of the front 3 I think Facchettis forward runs will be more limited, especially if Lionel starts drifting out to that side. The heavy pressing inside your own half will also aim to reduce this threat.
If you are asking Kalle to be tracking back you really need to swap him with Stoichkov.
Just realized that Gio voted for me before. So sorry, Gio. I thought Cutch did. THe bastard!!
As per the OP the situation would be monitored with that as the contingency. The thinking is that Gio has enough on his plate to worry about.
Messi - 4 in a row Ballon D'or winner
Rummenigge - 2 in a row Ballon D'or winner
Stoitchkov - 1 Ballon D'or
Rivera - 1 Ballon D'or
Attack would be the best form of defence
I don't think I voted in your game. Didn't have a clue who would come out on top. Tough luck mate, our top of the draw hasn't done too well it seems
At least you and Gio put up a decent fight. I went out to a manager who didn't bother to argue much but still won
I don't think it is necessary, but you can't realistically claim Kalle is tracking back all the way to the corner flag. This whole "tracking back" thing is a relatively new phenomenom to a certain extent, it was very rare that you had both wingers AND attacking fullbacks in the past and more often than not those sides didn't require the wide players to be "doing a job" in defence. It was an acceptable risk, an "I'll have to score more" type logic at play. Players would come deep to receive and start the build up but you wouldn't see a Rummenigge sticking to a fullback all the way down the pitch. They would tie up the fullback or a midfielder covering for them. Whenever the attackers contribution on the counter is more significant than what the midfielder can contribute upfront you can bet your left nut the midfielder (or the fullback himself) will be conservative unless where there is a massive disparity in terms of pace and/or directness.
The way I see it Rummenigge would press upfront but would come back down to midfield, where his mark (and the man he ties up) would be Davids. Mauro Silva comes across to support and Breitner keeps tabs on Hagi (not sure what the difference is with Gio's double pivot argument really).
Rivera is largely keeping Essien worried rather than the other way around. At most all he has to do is stop him from shooting from range which he would score from once in a blue moon. It's likely Rivera wouldn't track him all the way into the box (all the better if you recover really) but by then he would be in a rather congested Nesta/Breitner/Stoichkov (who has been tracking Armfield if needed) territory and I actually don't think he would venture there leaving Rivera completely unattended.
No issues really.
3 votes in it as it hits the sunrise.
At least you and Gio put up a decent fight. I went out to a manager who didn't bother to argue much but still won
I went out to one who seemed to be drunk.