I'd say roughly one third of the world still have it. Maybe those countries you listed tend to use them more, but many asian countries still maintain it.
Death Penalty
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran are here to talk about a frustrating 2 points dropped at Crystal Palace. They then discuss the regeneration of Old Trafford. Finally, Nik is joined by special guest Michael Statham from the Football Oranje podcast - who gives us a more in depth look at our EL opposition FC Twente, and then runs through the (many) Dutch connections currently at United.
I'd say roughly one third of the world still have it. Maybe those countries you listed tend to use them more, but many asian countries still maintain it.
I'd say roughly one third of the world still have it. Maybe those countries you listed tend to use them more, but many asian countries still maintain it.
"Having it" doesn't mean its popular, especially when a vast majority of executions happen in autocracies where people don't get to vote for the policies their dictators choose to employ.
That's part of the problem in the US, it's basically a political decision, I live in MO, the decision taken the other day was about politics and nothing else
Life without the possibility for parole for me.
Fair point, but interestingly enough, Taiwan still uses it.
I don't really mind the concept.
Strongly against. Entirely based on the vengeance part of punishment, which is dumb.
Some recent numbers from Amnesty International.
Not sure how much of it is about vengeance. It's not like it's all that mint to be jailed for 70 years.
My context is mainly around the US system as that's the only one I've lived where it actually happens and I'm thoroughly against it. I personally don't see a logical reason for it tbh. It's more expensive, and the asymmetry of outcomes is so obvious.
When I was at Uni we studied the potential impact of knowing it existed as preventative to criminal activity, and there's absolutely no evidence of that working whatsoever.
Basically, other than humans being vindictive pricks, I don't see a good argument for it.
When I was at Uni we studied the potential impact of knowing it existed as preventative to criminal activity, and there's absolutely no evidence of that working whatsoever.
Basically, other than humans being vindictive pricks, I don't see a good argument for it.
Everytime there is an incident with serial rape or mass murder the whole internet is screaming the offender should be stomped to death and thrown in the sea. Of course being jailed for 70 years sucks as well, but it's not nearly as satisfying to the fire and pitchforks crowd.
And if for any reason the system fecked up, jailed people can be set free and compensated.
Is it less vindictive to want to see someone rot in prison for the remainder of their life?
The internet isn't an argument.
But yes, the major downside as i see it is that especially the American justice system is absolutely useless, completely filled up with morons, and innocent people suffer
Yes, I think that is less vindictive. Unless you have firm views on the afterlife, wanting someone to literally cease to exist is kind of as far as you can go.
But wishing someone to rot in prison for the remainder of their life, with no purpose whatsoever, is what then?
Very obviously, yes.
Less vindictive.
Also the unfortunate but only solution for certain people who simply cannot co-exist with a society we want to live in.
That's a good point, life sentences are unethical as well. But I don't think most of the world is ready for that conversation.
Perhaps, not so sure if death is a worse outcome than spending the odd 50-60 years in prison, without no chance of ever living a normal life. Imagine being jailed for life when you're in your early 20's
But it’s still not as vindictive as the death penalty.
A desire to put someone to death is inherently vengeful. Prison has a protective element for everyone else. Death is also irreversible if it turns out you were wrong.
It's archaic in my view and should be consigned to the past. The state has to pay someone to carry out state sponsored murder against people who committed murder. I always think of the executioner. How do they have a normal life?
I don't think a complete ban on the death penalty is necessary.
Those executed at the nuremberg trials deserved it and had Hitler lived to be put on trial he should have been executed as he was simply too dangerous to keep alive.
But the problem is, can we dole out enough punishments that are equivalent to the worse crime humans can commit?
There are a few problems I see with the death penalty
Those executed at the nuremberg trials deserved it and had Hitler lived to be put on trial he should have been executed as he was simply too dangerous to keep alive.
But the problem is, can we dole out enough punishments that are equivalent to the worse crime humans can commit?
There are a few problems I see with the death penalty
- At what point does a crime merit the death penalty
- How do we avoid killing innocent people?
- Who does the executing? If we execute more and more, someone has to carry it out, what does that do to a person?
Seeing this topic next to the ETH topic seemed a little worrying and over the top.
We need to start setting standards
Beatings will continue until morale improves.
The internet is the modern day equivalent of an angry mob and is extremely influential in shaping public opinion surely?
Yes, of course it's less vindictive. I don't think we need whole-life sentences for anyone but the most dangerous. Some people can't ever be considered safe to return to society. The problem in the USA is that super-long sentences are handed out willy-nilly.
I watched a vid the other day, the young man had repeatedly broken the terms of his probation and continued to commit crimes which were classed as felonies. He hadn't killed anyone. The judge was fed up with him and gave him a 40-year sentence. That's not reasonable.
I suppose that the people sentenced to death would be the ones sentenced to whole-life sentences anyway.
Not that any of those sentences should be taken lightly, but in a situation where you’re sentenced to life in prison, no chance of parole, that’s pretty much it. The rest of your life is down the drain. How much of a life are you actually going to have and be able to enjoy inside a prison? I can’t imagine the psychological toll knowing that this is it, you will remain here until you die. To many, death would be an easy escape compared to a situation like that, there’s no way out of it anyway. Maybe i’m overthinking it, but i don’t really think it’s all that far away from wishing the death penalty upon someone.
But yeah, i completely agree about the USA and long sentences. It’s bonkers how a series of minor stuff can land you in prison for longer than most countries in Europe will hand out for murder.
The fact that he was still executed is fecking dusgusting and it should be treated as murder.
How many chances is he supposed to get?
He was on probation so presumably had been convicted of crime(s), repeatingly committed more crimes whilst on probation, such people are never likely to change, why should the rest of us have to suffer?
Many years ago I was the victim of multiple burglaries and car break-ins, on one of the latter the perpatrator was seen, whilst I couldn't prove he was responsible for the other stuff I, and all my neighbors, knew he was responsible, other folks has the same happen to them, it cost me a small fortune in additopnal insurance costs and time off work to get stuff fixed or replaced, he had already served time in Borstal, was on probabtion for the same kind of offences
I have no idea how this is treated in the US, but all countries needs to have an appeal process that is independent of whatever court/judge/jury whatnot was involved in the first place. Review the case based on new evidence/circumstances and if the conclusion is that the new information could’ve changed the outcome of your trial, then you get a new trial. When it comes to new evidence, stuff like DNA, you can’t have someone that is going to be biased, and you definetely will be biased if you’ve been involved.
It is infuriating, I realise that - but putting someone in prison for 40 years for non-violent crime is putting a sticking plaster over a much more complicated problem. We need more creative options than perpetual incarceration, but that would be complicated so we just send these repeat offenders back to prison, for whatever length of time.
In prison they just learn new tricks, of course.
I am all for it for death penalty for extreme cases, even a bit of torture rerribuition. But as it is no guarantee that all the convicted are really guilty, it should not exist as punishment.
I agree with this, specially built prison, no home comforts like TV, or games. Preferably on an Island somewhere very inhospitable. No contact with the ouside world, not even mail.
Its a relic of a time when we didnt have the means to incarcerate people long term. Same with lashings and other forms of corporal punishment that we used to dish out instead of prison sentences, because we didn't have prisons to put people in. Or any other means to remove people from society for any length of time.
Banishment used to be an alternative but that became useless once local populations grew to an extent that not every person in the locality is known to everyone else and new faces became a common feature. Allowing the banished to blend back into whatever locality they were banished from in the first place. Rendering it useless.
Transporting the banished as far away as possible became a solution for a while, as the convict generally wouldn't have the means to make their way back home. And if they did it would take many years, and a lot of effort to do so. Kind of like a prison term.
Then we started building purpose built prisons and just sent the banished there.
Banishment used to be an alternative but that became useless once local populations grew to an extent that not every person in the locality is known to everyone else and new faces became a common feature. Allowing the banished to blend back into whatever locality they were banished from in the first place. Rendering it useless.
Transporting the banished as far away as possible became a solution for a while, as the convict generally wouldn't have the means to make their way back home. And if they did it would take many years, and a lot of effort to do so. Kind of like a prison term.
Then we started building purpose built prisons and just sent the banished there.
I love how people are saying it's best to let them live with the conscience. These people don't have a conscience. Some of these monsters have no remorse and will never see what they did as wrong. The guilty ones will just continue to live and revel in the thought of how much they enjoyed what they did. The only reason I'm against the death penalty is because innocent people get mixed in with these scums.
You can't assuming everyone sentenced to death is a full on psychopath and lacking conscience. Even if they are, they'll spend decades doing what you said anyway before they are killed.
I'm OK with it. I used to be more strongly for it but my stance has softened over time. Now I just don't care. Should be reserved for the most heinous of crimes. And if you're going to do it, then do it more swiftly. None of this 10, 20+ years sitting on death row with appeals after appeals and other court shenanigans that lawyers and judges drag for years and years.
Yes I know it isn't a deterrence. I don't think you can really quantify or predict "deterrence" for things like murder, rape, terrorism anyway, but oh well. I have a more retributive view on capital punishment. When it comes to these crimes I don't care about deterrence, rehabilitation, or utilitarian benefits to society of a criminal's death. You die because you deserve to.
Yes I know it isn't a deterrence. I don't think you can really quantify or predict "deterrence" for things like murder, rape, terrorism anyway, but oh well. I have a more retributive view on capital punishment. When it comes to these crimes I don't care about deterrence, rehabilitation, or utilitarian benefits to society of a criminal's death. You die because you deserve to.
Yeah, the rule of law sucks.