To be fair, that's the De Gea we had been used to up until about two years ago...
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Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 36
- Clean sheets
- 12
- Goals
- 0
- Assists
- 0
- Yellow cards
- 0
- Status
To be fair, that's the De Gea we had been used to up until about two years ago...
He is just a decent GK nowadays for top level standards, nothing more. A couple of top saves (which every GK has in him), a couple of mistakes and plenty of doubt. The times are gone where he saved plenty of shots. The first 2 goals yesterday he saved quite a bit before 2018.
His overall aura and contribution is not as it used to be.
His overall aura and contribution is not as it used to be.
He is too scared to put his body on the line for some saves, going with your feet for absolutely everything is not the answer.
That first goal he should be out and all over that. Make yourself big, narrow the angle, get right up against the ball... he did none of those things.
I don't know if I'm one of those "expecting too much", but I don't rate him as top goalkeeper these days anymore.
I agree. He’s not useless by any means. He still belongs in the top 5 league. But... we have him on what..? 250k a week and also blocking Henderson’s playing time. Really think we should look to sell him. Maybe a club like Juventus, PSG or Inter.
Overall he’s been an excellent signing - some times singlehandedly winning games for us.Those days, I feel, are gone though.
De Gea became the starting goalkeeper in Madrid as an 18/19-year old. At age 19-20 in his last season in Madrid he played all 38 league games. No doubt he benefited from that responsibility and experience. Henderson is now 23 - 24 by next season’s start. I really think it’s time to give him a go and most importantly - I think he deserves it.
Think it's reasonable for us to expect him to pull off saves which would be tougher than average to make, seeing as how he's still mediocre at best at other aspects of goalkeeping. Averages out, especially when we're keeping someone as promising as Henderson on the bench.
I actually think our defence got less nervy after Henderson replaced him for the Southampton game.
This team needs a commanding keeper, it's not worth it anymore to have De Gea in goal.
It's not nice to see as he's been so good for us, but he's a glaring weakness in the team now. We could forgive his lack of organisation and refusal to come off the line because of the saves he made, but he's getting even worse at the first two and his saves aren't as frequent anymore. A more aggressive keeper would have saved the last goal and potentially made a difference on the other two.
That save he made before Marquinhos scored their second was immense.
Bit of an odd criticism given he just injured himself trying to save an unsaveable free kick at the weekend.
Bit of an odd criticism given he just injured himself trying to save an unsaveable free kick at the weekend.
If Henderson doesn't play against West Ham then he should leave the club in January.
You do realise he's the best paid goalkeeper in world football right?
Making saves that most other goalkeepers wouldn't is the reason he got the contract. He wouldn't be on £375k a week if it was based on his distribution, coming off his line or command of his area.
And looked like he hurt himself again yesterday making that pre-Marquinhos save.
Spot on. De Gea is a good shot stopper but a poor organizer who doesn't lead or inspire confidence in his defence. We'll look much stronger defensively with a commanding and communicative goalkeeper.
There’s no denying he is still going to pull off some fantastic saves, but I’m still not convinced what we gain in that aspect is helping us more than a commanding keeper would.
I haven’t really got a clue where the club will go on this one, as I don’t think either keeper will accept being rotated for more than this season, Henderson especially. Maybe us going into the Europa will be good for Henderson, not that I want us to obviously.
I haven’t really got a clue where the club will go on this one, as I don’t think either keeper will accept being rotated for more than this season, Henderson especially. Maybe us going into the Europa will be good for Henderson, not that I want us to obviously.
Dave is still a top keeper and we’d be mad to think otherwise. But if the argument is that we should expand the rebuild of the squad by getting rid of De Gea and going with Henderson, that’s great, but realize we’ll have to endure a 1-2 season spell where Henderson works himself into the class where De Gea is today.
I don't really have an issue with people expecting De Gea to be better than other goalkeepers at what he's good at, or with people criticising the weaknesses in his game.
What irks is people twisting the reality of happens in games to suit the pre-existing narrative in their head.
Classic example in the Southampton game. We concede from a corner and that gets blamed on De Gea being "weak". Henderson comes on, gets praised for being "assured". Yet both treated the same type of corner in exactly the same way, because it was the right way to handle it. If those who criticised De Gea for that goal were in any way consistent then they would have been calling out Henderson for being too passive in that instance too. But they didn't because frankly I doubt they even noticed it, mostly because it falls outside the pre-existing idea they have of the two goalkeepers. They just see what they expect to see.
Then in yesterday's game there was one poster in the matchday thread (in addition to the one above) arguing that De Gea was too afraid of hurting himself to put his body on the line, again because of the pre-existing narrative in their head, totally ignoring the fact that De Gea had literally injured himself in the very last game by flinging himself at a free kick he wasn't going to be able to stop. Presumably if Henderson did the same thing in the next game they would hold it up as an example of his "bravery".
What irks is people twisting the reality of happens in games to suit the pre-existing narrative in their head.
Classic example in the Southampton game. We concede from a corner and that gets blamed on De Gea being "weak". Henderson comes on, gets praised for being "assured". Yet both treated the same type of corner in exactly the same way, because it was the right way to handle it. If those who criticised De Gea for that goal were in any way consistent then they would have been calling out Henderson for being too passive in that instance too. But they didn't because frankly I doubt they even noticed it, mostly because it falls outside the pre-existing idea they have of the two goalkeepers. They just see what they expect to see.
Then in yesterday's game there was one poster in the matchday thread (in addition to the one above) arguing that De Gea was too afraid of hurting himself to put his body on the line, again because of the pre-existing narrative in their head, totally ignoring the fact that De Gea had literally injured himself in the very last game by flinging himself at a free kick he wasn't going to be able to stop. Presumably if Henderson did the same thing in the next game they would hold it up as an example of his "bravery".
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It seems he's having his worst season in last 5 years, way off what's been his "normal" service. In terms of % of shots saved, he's been in top 25% in each EPL season (4th, 6th, 1st, 2nd); so far this season he's 19th.
Liverpool right next to us at the bottom - what happens if the Spurs and Villa games are removed I wonder.
Unfortunately I'm using whole season data. That's why I compared EPL and CL
Anyway, I'm far from concluding we're losing games because of DDG, but I'd expect him to do better at one thing he was supposed to be world class at - shot stopping. And as I've stated in different thread, we seem to be conceding a lot of goals from what is considered low quality chances.
Jumping into a post by mistake has nothing to do with what I'm saying, he's terrified of going near anyone with his body.
Spot on.
I was arguing with said poster in the match day thread about the "not brave enough" comment and just gave up.
Yes, but you are judging him as a poor shot stopper based on this stat, and the presence of another top team thrid-bottom on the same stat should be alarming, and when you consider that both teams were destroyed with many goals on the same week, a possible explanation becomes apparent.
Both the Southampton chances are "low quality", unlike goals, but were not keeper mistakes since they were perfectly struck. Newcastle was a freak own-goal. Everton DDG is a little culpable, but it was a very precise shot through the defender's legs. Especially with a small sample size, stats do not say too much.
e - also I remember graphs in the DDG debate last season that had him bottom for the xGsaved or %saves or whatever that metric is; here he seems to have been 4th? By an eye test he was much much worse last season than now.
No. Number of shots and goals are irrelevant for judging goalkeeper performance. They are only important if you're judging the whole defense.
He was 4th last season with 74% of shots saved. So far he's on the level of 57%.
Lets take last 3 games then:
7 saves out of 13=54% shots saved.
Lets exclude PSG: 4 saves of 7=57% shots saved. And those two games were against WBA and Soton, who both combined had xG=1 over 180mins. It's a small sample but seems consistent to me.
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When you get down to 3-game samples, you can *actually see* what goals were conceded. It is insane to look at save precentages and talk about a goalkeeping problem when you can see each individual conceded goal and each individual save. Again, both goals against Southampton were not normally saveable, and clean sheet vs West Brom.
Im his biggest critic. Said he was done over a year ago (maybe 2?) but I think he’s done well this season. The neymar first goal doesn’t bother me too much, but I wish he made himself bigger more often and left his line more. He doesn’t command his box at all
Yes I agree, but what is your point exactly? That it's not De Gea fault, just bad luck or something else?
I just tried to prove he's doing worse than in previous seasons and the reason we're a little shaky at the back is not because of defenders / midfielders, who seem to be doing alright.
Also, compared to previous seasons he's doing worse than expected (let's say worse than statistically average goalkeeper) basing on available data:
- 2017/18 PSxG +9,1
- 2018/19 +0,9
- 2019/20 +2,1
- 2020/21 -1,0
There are 1-2 goals we've conceded this season where he could have done better, a number of saves he made which were very good and at crucial points in the game, and no blatant errors. My point is that summary stats give some idea, but especially when dealing with small samples, you have to look at the actual data.
In the particular example of the WBA and Southampton games, he was a good keeper with bad stats. Whether you want to call it bad luck or good finishing or whatever, IDK, but it's part of being a keeper.
Those numbers I shown is not average of %, it is total shots saved/ total shots (all games) based on sample of 10 games in EPL. So the number of shots is irrelevant as it's calculated by club, not by goalkeeper. In terms of CL I took at least 4 games played by goalkeeper.
If he reaches his "normal" level of stats over the course of the season, I will be delighted. However, it would require a big improvement from him as we're already 25% in the season.
I'll be honest. This guy is a representation of some of our worst ever seasons, and that's because he has been there throughout them.
He is very talented and immense, but I think it would do us the world of good, mentally, if we got rid of him or demoted him.
At this point, we concede daft goals and it is always de gea that the camera turns to. Its getting repetitive.
We have to get rid of old furniture to renovate.
He is very talented and immense, but I think it would do us the world of good, mentally, if we got rid of him or demoted him.
At this point, we concede daft goals and it is always de gea that the camera turns to. Its getting repetitive.
We have to get rid of old furniture to renovate.
I think if he goes with his feet, he saves the third goal. Seemed like he was expecting Neymar to smash it in.
The first goal happens because he doesnt want to be beaten at the near post. It was a really good finish.
Second I need to watch again, but the defence seems to allow those type of goals quite a bit. I dont know if its communication between the keeper and his team or what? When I go Old trafford, he doesnt seem vocal when things are happening, but he does seem to swear a lot after a goal is conceded (but it seems like its under his breath)? I dunno.
I think for both of the first 2 goals, it's much harder for them to score if he gets out and uses his body, he never wants to move towards the attacking player, he'd rather throw his feet at it. His feet are excellent in some circumstances, but sometimes you have to go at an attacker with the biggest part of your body, even if it might result in you getting battered.
Three PSG players free at the far post. It's fecking inexcusable.
I have no problem with the 2nd and 3rd goal. He could have done better for the first though. He stays on his line and turns his head. He may not have saved it, but I would rather see him off his line quick to cut the angle and make himself big. Nothing better than a keeper who is willing to take one off the face to make the save...
We've conceded 5 goals over the last two matches but we honestly can't blame De Gea for any of them. De Gea has made some howlers over the last 24 months but he's still a better option than Henderson right now. That said, the club has a decision to make this summer.
He couldn't really go any further out than he already was for the first. He did hesitate though.
The third is the worst. If he hadn't hesitated he could have closed Rafinha down and he would not have been able to pick the pass to Neymar.
This bolded part is a bit harsh but this is how I see him. He doesn't make any mistakes, and is just OK at every aspect of goalkeeping since it seems he lost his shot stopping superpower.
I think people should watch some clips of him pulling amazing saves in the previous seasons to understand what we're missing if the stats are not enough.
Nah...it's basically a break away. No problem with that. If they didn't score it would be poor finishing. But the first one he just stood at his post. Could have closed down but got on one knee and turned his head. Not good. Like I said, they still may have scored, but I would just like to see him be braver and throw his body in the way....
How many goals has he concede this season so far? Seems like he has conceded alot.
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