I don't think that word means what you think it means.
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Well, I think he should be the undisputed best. He makes saves that no other keeper would even dream of getting close to.
He had 2-3 world class saves there, even the last one he catches. Incredible how good he is.
Neuer vs De Gea is the new Messi vs Ronaldo, i wont get sucked into it.
Neuer vs De Gea is the new Messi vs Ronaldo, i wont get sucked into it.
True. But I still think Neuer dominates his area and defence better. De Gea is the better shot stopper though.
So this is the second time we've had the "best in the world" and again will end up in Madrid. feck that.
Saying he's the "undisputed" best is beyond daft, as that would mean no other keeper comes close, which is laughable. No issues saying he's better than Neuer, he probably is, but is the gap that much? Hardly
He's an outrageous shot stopper. One of the best I've ever seen.
There are areas where Neuer is still stronger but De Gea is still improving and if I had the choice between either, with Dave's age I'd pick him. The annoying thing is when people compare keepers like Courtois or Lloris to either of them. The gap between those two and the rest is as big as the gap between Messi/Ronaldo and the rest.
There are areas where Neuer is still stronger but De Gea is still improving and if I had the choice between either, with Dave's age I'd pick him. The annoying thing is when people compare keepers like Courtois or Lloris to either of them. The gap between those two and the rest is as big as the gap between Messi/Ronaldo and the rest.
Come on, Courtois has stalled a bit but he is also very young, and has already had huge dominant spells. De Gea has been better than him and Neuer for a whole year maybe, which obviously accounts for something, but he isn't really that much better than any of those two. Next year it could be anyone.
He isn't better than Neuer, people are getting carried away. Neuer is in a class of his own.
He's closer to Courtois but I wouldn't say he's much better than him either.
He's closer to Courtois but I wouldn't say he's much better than him either.
I'd be shocked if he does not get the no.1 spot for the Euro. He is just massive and been in the form of his life
How isn't he better then Courtois? De Gea has been pretty much untouchable over the past year and a half. Also compared to Neuer... He's made less errors then him, while being the best shot stopper around and pretty great in just about anything else. Him and Neuer are overall a level above anyone else as keepers, but De Gea has probably been more consistent (along with being tested a lot more).
De Gea reveals the toughest finisher he has faced.
http://www.manutd.com/en/News-And-F...=facebook&utm_medium=post&utm_campaign=ManUtd
De Gea: "He's so good, even he doesn't know which way he is going to go."
http://www.manutd.com/en/News-And-F...=facebook&utm_medium=post&utm_campaign=ManUtd
De Gea: "He's so good, even he doesn't know which way he is going to go."
De Gea has been comfortably better than Courtois and Neuer in the last two years. It's just lazy posting at this time to state that he isn't better than both of them. To say Neuer is in a class of his own is also wrong.
He is, without a doubt, better at this age than Neuer was.
De Gea has been sensational for us but he hasn't been at the same level for Spain up until now. He's only played sporadically which doesn't help but he has been more error prone. Even yesterday he nearly gifted Ukraine a goal by trying to come out and punch a ball outside the 6 yard box which on another day would've landed at a Ukranian for a tap in to an empty box.
So Neuer has that in his favour. That said I do think people like Vato don't recognise just how good he's been for us in the last two years. Last year in particular. There are probably only a couple of seasons in the last 50 years that a keeper has performed at that level for us.
So Neuer has that in his favour. That said I do think people like Vato don't recognise just how good he's been for us in the last two years. Last year in particular. There are probably only a couple of seasons in the last 50 years that a keeper has performed at that level for us.
Was about to post the video of his performance against Ukraine, what a match it has been for him.
It really is baffling how Casillas still gets the nod over him.
Thing is, Neuer does it as well. When we've won 2-0 against Germany, first goal came basically from his 'empty flight' when he tried to punch the ball away. With Neuer it just doesn't get highlighted due to the hype, it's just like this bullhsit that he 'completly changed GKs style' almost as if he invented fire.
Neil makes quite a it of mistakes, his teams are not punished for, so they are overlooked.
Absolutely. I think it's accepted that Neuer is actually more error prone in the air than De Gea at this stage. He does take more risks and dominate the area more often though. De Gea is very competent when he comes out to collect crosses nowadays but he chooses when to come out very wisely. Neuer relieves the pressure from his defenders more often.
I just meant he has consistently excellent performances in the national team in his favour. De Gea doesn't yet. I personally do think Neuer is an innovative goalkeeper in much the same way De Gea is. Not only are they brilliant at what they do but they have very distinctive styles which set them apart from previous great keepers - Neuer with his sweeper keeping and De Gea with his ridiculous feet saves.
Aye, agree regarding the national team.
Rafael the fittest player he's played with?
It got highlighted for a long time actually. He built up enough credit through consistent performances overall and great performances in key moments for club and country. So when he makes a mistake now or has a few weeks of below par form, it's seen as an outlier and not held against him. Which makes sense after so many incredible performances over the last 8 years.
Did you actually watch Neuer at Schalke? I still remember the 09/10 season incredibly well, when Neuer kept Schalke in the race for the league on a weekly basis with out of this world performances. Schalke was level on points with Bayern with 2 games left. And Magath, Schalke's manager at the time, reminded the journalists every week that the goalkeeper is part of the team and that they should stop saying they didn't deserve to win because the other team created much more in the game and if not for Neuer Schalke would have lost.
Neuer was destined for greatness back then, it was obvious and the following years were no surprise to anyone who actually followed him at Schalke and at the youth nationalteams. It looks like the same is true for De Gea.
Agree with this.
As good as he was yesterday for Spain (and he was really good) it looks that he is more like the De Gea of the first two years at United when he plays for them. He doesn't look near as much as confident and yesterday he punched a few crosses which for us he would have caught.
Still, I think that the confidence will increase with each match. Del Bosque will be a fool if he continues with Casillas, especially after De Gea's performance yesterday.
Is it fair on De Gea that he's been forced to rotate with a keeper he's way better than. I can't see him translating club form for country as long as this farce continues.
De Gea is arguably the best keeper in the world now, and at the very worst case, the second best. Neuer wasn't the best keeper in Germany back then IMO. As good as he was, Adler was even better than him.
At the moment, I don't think that there is much between Neuer and De Gea. Neuer is better at organizing the defense (which may be linked to his leadership) and at sweeping, De Gea is better at shot stopping and is less error-prone. Both fantastic at passing.
De Gea now vs Neuer 4-5 years ago? IMO, it is not even a match. However, it needs to be said that De Gea's progress has been quite linear (each season improving a bit) while Neuer at some point in 2011-2012 jumped from a very good people to the best in the world within half a year or so.
That's simply not true. Adler was still favoured by Löw (which means nothing, just like Del Bosque prefering Casillas doesn't mean anything today) but Neuer definitely surpassed him without a doubt in the 09/10 season.
Neuer was already voted the best Bundesliga goalkeeper in his debut season in 06/07. In 2008 many fans argued that Neuer should have been part of the Euro squad after his fantastic performances in the league and his heroics in the CL against Porto. He followed it up with another great season for Schalke and the outstanding performances in the u21 Euro win 2009.
Be honest, how often did you watch Neuer before the CL semifinals against United? Because that comment is really really untrue. Many football fans in Germany already called him the best keeper in the world in 2010 and 2011, similar to how United fans now see De Gea already as the best in the world even though the rest of the world doesn't agree with it, at all. For example, the telegraph posted a Euro 2016 dream squad today and the 3 goalkeepers were Neuer, Courtois and Hart.
In terms of shot stopping, nobody comes close. As the full package, I suppose it's daft to say he should be the undisputed best. I think shot stopping is obviously the most valuable attribute for a keeper to have though. Defense organisation, kicking ect all come secondary.
This is one of those situations where people just decide something in their head and then stick with it no matter what, probably based on little more than media and video games. I don't really understand how anyone could watch the three of those goalkeepers and think that Neuer is 'in a class of his own'. De Gea has out-performed those two now for pretty much 18 months, comfortably.
Well, I'll give you that. I haven't watched Bundesliga near as much as you. Both Neuer and Adler impressed me most of the time when I watched them, but read that Adler was more rated and so was playing for the national team. Unlike, Casillas-De Gea case, neither of them were a legend on his country (which I think is the reason why Casillas still play for Spain)
Fair point. The last line is funny though. An English paper/website having an English keeper in top 3. Who would have though?
It illustrates your point good enough though.
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Different reason of course, but it was a really weird time for German goalkeepers. Lehmann still played in 2008 even though he shouldn't have. Then he retired, Enke became first choice with Adler 2nd choice and Neuer was still a u21 player. So instead of being just part of the senior squad, he continued his career in the u21. I understood that decision and Neuer proved his worth in the u21 Euro winning side. Then Enke commited suicide and instead of questioning all the rankings, Löw just moved on to the next in line. Again, difficult to hold it against Löw or Neuer with what just happened. And Adler performed well, he was clearly a fantastic shotstopper before injuries ruined his career. Then Adler's injury ahead of the WC sorted the problem for Löw and we never looked back.
It's not like Neuer had to wait inline forever behind a clearly inferior goalkeeper or anything like that. He went from winning the u21 Euro in 2009 to starting at the World Cup in 2010. You can't move up faster than that as a goalkeeper.
I think it's mental. If you want to force an English goalkeeper into the squad, then leave Courtois out. At least in England, everyone should have realised how brilliant De Gea was over the last 2 years. But yeah, like you say, it really proves the point that unless you watch a goalkeeper week in, week out, you can't really judge him. Making crazy statements about Neuer's performances 4-5 years ago is ridiculous if it's actually based on his global reputation back then and not on watching him every week for yourself.
Really? That's insanity of the highest order, unless the argument is that De Gea isn't considered because Casillas might still start at the Euros. No argument about Neuer, but there's no chance De Gea should be behind Courtois or Hart.
I don't understand how Courtois is still rated above De Gea. One or 2 years ago it was close and the scales might've tipped in Courtois' favour, with his impressive Atletico achievements. But last year both were in the Premier League and De Gea had a significantly better season, consistently putting in world class performances. Courtois had those as well but to a lesser extent and he made more errors than I expected. He might still prove himself equal but right now there's no legitemate basis to claim he's as good as De Gea, let alone better.
Looks like it's based solely from international form, which is stupid in itself but not entirely surprising.
Not sure about that. For example, Hazard is in it but De Bruyne isn't, even though De Bruyne has been way way better for Belgium than Hazard. It could be true that De Gea is left out because he's not a sure starter of course, but that would be silly, both by the media for accepting it despite his brilliant performances and by Del Bosque for playing an at this point clearly inferior goalkeeper.
I only read the narrative for each of the keepers and it was all about their performances for their countries, no mention at all of club performance, which is what made me assume that was all it was based on.
TBF, Hart has been in excellent form this season.
They seem to base themselves on performances for the national team, which perhaps justifies it a little. But that's such a small sample size, I don't like it. Curiously, later on they include Hazard who is consistently underwhelming for Belgium and only shines at club level.
Edit: I see you were way ahead of me.
True. Excellent keeper. Think people fell into the habit of underrating him due to that extended bad spell he went through.
Dave being Dave. Nothing to see here.
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