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2014-15 Performances

View full 2014-15 profile

6.6 Season Average Rating
Appearances
43
Clean sheets
13
Goals
0
Assists
0
Yellow cards
0
Raul Madrid said:
Courtois has shown for Atletico that he can both keep his team in matches by making save after save to them win them games they do not deserve too (the Copa final vs Madrid in 2013 is a great example of that). But what he did for Atletico last season required something different and even more difficult. Atletico won some games by a big margin, but a lot of them were by a single goal or two. Because of their defensive excellence last season which was based on hard work, constant closing down and pressing, dogged displays and resilient attitude, they still conceded some chances especially late on in games when they were leading by a single goal and Courtois showed excellent concentration and alertness to make big saves at such vital moments after not being tested or given much to do all game. I am yet to see that type of concentration and ability to make saves at vital moments after having little to do all game from DDG on a consistent basis like I have seen from Courtois.

It is true that Uniteds defence is not as good as Atletico's or Chesea's but in a way that has helped DDG as it has given him plenty to do and has given him plenty of time to show off his excellent shot stopping and his ability to make brilliant save after save and it allows him to stay alert and keep his concentration levels up. He is benefitting from being behind a poor backline just like Casillas used to back in the day as he got to make plenty of saves and was worked all game. You say you struggle to see how Courtois is better than DDG and ask "Could you imagine what David would do in Mourinho's defensively stout teams behind experienced, consistent, healthy defenders like the ones Courtois has this season ?". We cannot really answer that yet but there have been plenty of keepers that have thrived when they were behind a poor defence and have struggled when behind a solid backline and had to maintain concentration for the 90 without being tested much. Courtois has shown that he can excel in both situations while DDG has not yet. It is pretty close and they are both world class goalkeepers but Courtois is still ahead for me and both are behind Neuer.
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De Gea has shown he can do this too, the second half of 2012/13 he was behind a settled defence, and that's incidentally when his change in form first happened. Vidic came back from injury, Rafael and Evra were constants, and Rio was having a very good season as well, but whenever we needed De Gea he was there to bail us out. Not a large sample size admittedly, but he's shown he is fine with that and can keep his concentration, even in the individual games like today where he is generally invisible and then required to make a big save now and then. It's not like he only ever performs when we're being pressured a lot.
 
bosnian_red said:
Fair enough, i watched them all plenty of times too but nowhere near United, and when you watch other teams, most of the time you tend to watch the game as a whole, rather then focus on one specific team. You don't notice the little things as much.

Anyways, my point was that you said he has been flawless for the past 18 months and I need to watch football more if I think De Gea made less mistakes then Courtois last season, when that's actually just the truth (and I watch loads of football outside of the premier league, for what its worth).
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Yes, I shouldn't have used flawless, it invites people to fine a couple of YouTube videos of questionable definitions of mistakes and pretend that's a valid argument.

Feel free to replace flawless with 'as good as De Gea's form since Everton'.

And again that's not an attack on De Gea, he's the third best goalkeeper in the world. It's just Courtois does all the stuff De Gea does and adds in supreme aerial dominance.
 
Dion said:
Yes, I shouldn't have used flawless, it invites people to fine a couple of YouTube videos of questionable definitions of mistakes and pretend that's a valid argument.

Feel free to replace flawless with 'as good as De Gea's form since Everton'.
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It is a valid argument as De Gea has been world class for almost 2 years now, since January 2012 and his flap against Spurs when Neville criticized him (wasn't even a huge mistake, but there you go). Since then, he's had the feck up vs Sunderland, and that's about it mistakes wise. Every keeper has a few bad kicks here and there so you can't really count those either, unless it's a recurring theme which it isn't with him. You say De Gea's form since Everton is what Courtois has had for 18 months, but De Gea has more or less been in that form for 2 years, not just since Everton. There's a reason he won our players of the season last year, and was one of our top 3 players in Fergie's final year.
 
bosnian_red said:
It is a valid argument as De Gea has been world class for almost 2 years now, since January 2012 and his flap against Spurs when Neville criticized him (wasn't even a huge mistake, but there you go). Since then, he's had the feck up vs Sunderland, and that's about it mistakes wise. Every keeper has a few bad kicks here and there so you can't really count those either, unless it's a recurring theme which it isn't with him. You say De Gea's form since Everton is what Courtois has had for 18 months, but De Gea has more or less been in that form for 2 years, not just since Everton. There's a reason he won our players of the season last year, and was one of our top 3 players in Fergie's final year.
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Yes, he's the third best goalkeeper in the world, only Courtois and Neuer are superior.
 
Raul Madrid said:
Courtois has shown for Atletico that he can both keep his team in matches by making save after save to them win them games they do not deserve too (the Copa final vs Madrid in 2013 is a great example of that). But what he did for Atletico last season required something different and even more difficult. Atletico won some games by a big margin, but a lot of them were by a single goal or two. Because of their defensive excellence last season which was based on hard work, constant closing down and pressing, dogged displays and resilient attitude, they still conceded some chances especially late on in games when they were leading by a single goal and Courtois showed excellent concentration and alertness to make big saves at such vital moments after not being tested or given much to do all game. I am yet to see that type of concentration and ability to make saves at vital moments after having little to do all game from DDG on a consistent basis like I have seen from Courtois.
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Fair enough Raul. Though, there is quite a lot of data to support the claim that De Gea has evidenced the ability to maintain his concentration and make decisive saves in matches where United were leading by a fine margin. So it's a bit disingenuous to state that David hasn't shown that on a consistent basis whereas Caourtois has.

Some opposition fans might not agree, but for the purpose of fairness, the performances of every single United player should be voided for the 2013/ 2014 season. The team had little cohesion at times, there was a lot of hidden reported resentment among the group and frankly most of them looked like they weren't arsed so broader picture, it's hard to deduce any key to individual player performances from a collective or titular perspective. If we compare De Gea's form in United's league winning 2012/ 2013 season, it makes for some interesting reading.

2012/ 2013 :

League games won by United by a single goal margin : 11.

2012/ 2013 :

League games won by Atletico by a single goal margin : 8.

2013/ 2014 :

League games won by Atletico by a single goal margin : 12.

2014/ 2015 :

League games won by United by a single goal margin : 5.

2014/ 2015 :

League games won by Chelsea by a single goal margin : 4.



So I really don't get the notion that De Gea is a fine shot stopper but doesn't have the concentration or calm mental ability of Courtois. I do honestly believe that his new-found stature in the game of being the best keeper in the world bar Neuer is largely predicated on the hyper surrounding Atletico's league winning, European Cup final competing 2013/ 2014 season.

Swap the two and I'm pretty sure De Gea would have done equally well behind the stronghold of Tiago and Gabi and Felipe and Juanfran and Godin and Miranda and Juanfran. Maybe that's the United fan in me siding with our player, but I genuinely feel I'm being impartial here. I'd readily swap Hazard some all of our wingers, or Matic and Cesc for any CM bar Herrera or Costa for RVP, so I'm not exactly conceited wrt the superiority of some of Chelsea's players when compared to their United counterparts. But I really wouldn't swap the two keepers.

EDIT : Updated !
 
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Dion said:
Yes, he's the third best goalkeeper in the world, only Courtois and Neuer are superior.
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Fair enough, your opinion. Personally don't think there's anything between Courtois and De Gea but it's a matter of personal preference.
 
bosnian_red said:
It's a pretty safe bet to say that United fans don't watch other teams as often as they watch United, no? Not saying you never do, I watched plenty of them myself but nowhere near as consistently. The point still stands because of that. United fans watch De Gea every week so know everything about him really, notice every little thing or mistake he makes. Watching other teams, people tend to just watch the game as a whole rather then focusing on one teams performances. Courtois probably had more mistakes then De Gea last season anyways, remember seeing a few goals where he fecked up on or let them squeeze through. He's a top keeper but he is definitely not flawless.
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Absolutely. I watch a lot of football, but most of the games I see rapidly disappear into my personal highlights reel. I'll maybe remember the feel of the game, the odd highlight or low point, but because I don't really care - I don't recall every error in distribution, every lucky punch or risky rebound. The only time I notice errors by a keeper that don't lead to goals is if the keeper is playing for us.

Even on the errors leading to goals front though, I remember that Atletico's Courtois wasn't perfect. There have been a couple of examples given, and I'm sure there are others. But I bet he wasn't even too pleased with his (much watched) CL final performance though I doubt any United fan would have blamed or even noticed him there either.
 
Invictus said:
Fair enough Raul. Though, there is quite a lot of data to support the claim that De Gea has evidenced the ability to maintain his concentration and make decisive saves in matches where United were leading by a fine margin. So it's a bit disingenuous to state that David hasn't shown that on a consistent basis whereas Caourtois has.

Some opposition fans might not agree, but for the purpose of fairness, the performances of every single United player should be voided for the 2013/ 2014 season. The team had little cohesion at times, there was a lot of hidden reported resentment among the group and frankly most of them looked like they weren't arsed so broader picture, it's hard to deduce any key to individual player performances from a collective or titular perspective. If we compare De Gea's form in United's league winning 2012/ 2013 season, it makes for some interesting reading.

2012/ 2013 :

League games won by United by a single goal margin : 11.

2012/ 2013 :

League games won by Atletico by a single goal margin : 8.

2013/ 2014 :

League games won by Atletico by a single goal margin : 12.

2014/ 2015 :

League games won by United by a single goal margin : 5.

2014/ 2015 :

League games won by Chelsea by a single goal margin : 4.



So I really don't get the notion that De Gea is a fine shot stopper but doesn't have the concentration or calm mental ability of Courtois. I do honestly believe that his new-found stature in the game of being the best keeper in the world bar Neuer is largely predicated on the hyper surrounding Atletico's league winning, European Cup final competing 2013/ 2014 season.

Swap the two and I'm pretty sure De Gea would have done equally well behind the stronghold of Tiago and Gabi and Felipe and Juanfran and Godin and Miranda and Juanfran. Maybe that's the United fan in me siding with our player, but I genuinely feel I'm being impartial here. I'd readily swap Hazard some all of our wingers, or Matic and Cesc for any CM bar Herrera or Costa for RVP, so I'm not exactly conceited wrt the superiority of some of Chelsea's players when compared to their United counterparts. But I really wouldn't swap the two keepers.

EDIT : Updated !
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Those stats don't tell the full story. Atletico could be leading by one goal late on and then Courtois makes a big save and then Atletico go up and score at the other end to win by two goals. My view is only from the games I have seen them play and not from stats (I have watched both of them a lot and I have seen them both play a similar amount of games. I do not watch one more than the other.) Casillas was quite good at times at making saves after not having to do much all game and at keeping his concentration although I still thought it was clear that Buffon was better and more consistent in this regard. Courtois has also put in world class performances against better teams than DDG has (Madrid and Barca have been better than any of the Premiership teams that DDG has had to go up against over the last few years). I am not saying DDG could not perform as well against those teams like Courtois has but it is just another argument in his case and something he has over DDG and it shows how close it is that I had to bring that up in Courtois' case. There is not much in it at all and they are both world class but for me Courtois has been more impressive and has proven and done more in his career so far imo. In a few years it will become more clear and easier to say who is the better keeper but like I said before Courtois has been better in his career so far imo.
 
Raul Madrid said:
Those stats don't tell the full story. Atletico could be leading by one goal late on and then Courtois makes a big save and then Atletico go up and score at the other end to win by two goals. My view is only from the games I have seen them play and not from stats (I have watched both of them a lot and I have seen them both play a similar amount of games. I do not watch one more than the other.) Casillas was quite good at times at making saves after not having to do much all game and at keeping his concentration although I still thought it was clear that Buffon was better and more consistent in this regard. Courtois has also put in world class performances against better teams than DDG has (Madrid and Barca have been better than any of the Premiership teams that DDG has had to go up against over the last few years). I am not saying DDG could not perform as well against those teams like Courtois has but it is just another argument in his case and something he has over DDG and it shows how close it is that I had to bring that up in Courtois' case. There is not much in it at all and they are both world class but for me Courtois has been more impressive and has proven and done more in his career so far imo. In a few years it will become more clear and easier to say who is the better keeper but like I said before Courtois has been better in his career so far imo.
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Well then we'll have to agree to disagree then really Raul, since the assessment is based on eye-test instead of tangible data and we probably have different scales for rating their performances. I probably watched 20-25+ Atletico games last season (new hipster club of choice after Dortmund in 2012/ 2013) and Thibaut was very good no doubt, but I've seen performances of similar caliber by De Gea (who honestly should seem weaker to me given that I intently scrutinize his every mis-step as a United fan). As for the Casillas and Buffon comparison, I personally feel it's bit unfair since De Gea's skillset resembles Gigi more closely than Iker. Like both of them, he's an excellent instinctive shot-stopper but has also developed controlling ability in the box, expanded his repertoire to defensing set pieces (a major weakness coming into the league) and aerial balls (like the latter). Courtois did indeed put in good performances vs Madrid and Barcelona but De Gea was similarly other-wordly vs Madrid at the Bernabeu where he was easily our MOTM (7 saves including 2 brilliant ones from Coentrao) and held his own pretty well until Nani's red card at Old Trafford (another 7 saves). I personally feel that using the presence of Madrid and Barcelona in the same division as Courtois these past couple of seasons is a bit disingenuous because a player is great irrespective of the opponents, it's just that he hasn't had the chance to face them regularly. Fair enough about the latter part I guess, they are pretty evenly matched indeed. But IMO De Gea edges it with Courtois following him closely. I can however see why some would hold the opposite view, it's totally understandable given Thibaut's part in driving Atletico to success while we finished 7th in the league in the same season with De Gea. That said, I always feel team accomplishments are more closely allied to the system and overall quality of the squad, so it's harder to gauge individual performances in a vacuum. You're correct though, It'll be a pleasure to watch these two battle it out in the same league. Hopefully David De Goat comes out on top !
 
Raul Madrid said:
Those stats don't tell the full story. Atletico could be leading by one goal late on and then Courtois makes a big save and then Atletico go up and score at the other end to win by two goals. My view is only from the games I have seen them play and not from stats (I have watched both of them a lot and I have seen them both play a similar amount of games. I do not watch one more than the other.) Casillas was quite good at times at making saves after not having to do much all game and at keeping his concentration although I still thought it was clear that Buffon was better and more consistent in this regard. Courtois has also put in world class performances against better teams than DDG has (Madrid and Barca have been better than any of the Premiership teams that DDG has had to go up against over the last few years). I am not saying DDG could not perform as well against those teams like Courtois has but it is just another argument in his case and something he has over DDG and it shows how close it is that I had to bring that up in Courtois' case. There is not much in it at all and they are both world class but for me Courtois has been more impressive and has proven and done more in his career so far imo. In a few years it will become more clear and easier to say who is the better keeper but like I said before Courtois has been better in his career so far imo.
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But didn't de Gea put great performances for A. Madrid against Barcelona?
 
Jammydodger7 said:
Average match score is only 6.5, Thought it would be higher!
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That's the score for the Hull game. He didn't really have anything to do. Obviously in current form he'd probably have had a stunner if he'd needed to, but you can't expect people to give him speculative 8s and 9s.

EDIT: Oh I see that's his season average too. Probably just a case of the players who stand out from each game getting the high scores and consistent performers not doing quite so well. Also when we were conceding goals like crazy is would've been hard to rate him highly even though he was so rarely at fault for any of them. And the Dons game.
 
Brightonian said:
That's the score for the Hull game. He didn't really have anything to do. Obviously in current form he'd probably have had a stunner if he'd needed to, but you can't expect people to give him speculative 8s and 9s.
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Nah it's his average for the season. The game against MK Dons affected his rating hugely.
 
Brightonian said:
That's the score for the Hull game. He didn't really have anything to do. Obviously in current form he'd probably have had a stunner if he'd needed to, but you can't expect people to give him speculative 8s and 9s.
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Is it not the average rating throughout the season?
 
Manchester United 1:2 Swansea - 5.5
Sunderland 1:1 Manchester United - 5.7
MK Dons 4:0 Manchester United - 4.0
Burnley 0:0 Manchester United - 5.9
Manchester United 4:0 Queens Park Rangers - 6.2
Leicester City 5:3 Manchester United - 4.3
Manchester United 2:1 West Ham United - 5.2
Manchester United 2:1 Everton - 9.5 (voted MOTM)
West Bromwich Albion 2:2 Manchester United - 5.6
Manchester United 1:1 Chelsea - 7.7
Manchester City 1:0 Manchester United - 7.8 (voted MOTM)
Manchester United 1:0 Crystal Palace - 6.4
Arsenal 1:2 Manchester United - 8.8 (voted MOTM)
Manchester United 3:0 Hull City - 6.6 (so far)
 
Damien said:
Manchester United 1:2 Swansea - 5.5
Sunderland 1:1 Manchester United - 5.7
MK Dons 4:0 Manchester United - 4.0
Burnley 0:0 Manchester United - 5.9
Manchester United 4:0 Queens Park Rangers - 6.2
Leicester City 5:3 Manchester United - 4.3
Manchester United 2:1 West Ham United - 5.2
Manchester United 2:1 Everton - 9.5 (voted MOTM)
West Bromwich Albion 2:2 Manchester United - 5.6
Manchester United 1:1 Chelsea - 7.7
Manchester City 1:0 Manchester United - 7.8 (voted MOTM)
Manchester United 1:0 Crystal Palace - 6.4
Arsenal 1:2 Manchester United - 8.8 (voted MOTM)
Manchester United 3:0 Hull City - 6.6 (so far)
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Was he poor vs West Ham?
 
Goalkeepers find it more difficult to have a high average score, particularly at a big club where there's going to be little to do in some games and you'll get a casual score of about 6.0 for these sort of games. When you're a forward or a midfielder you can impress pretty much everytime you set your foot on the pitch, when you're a goalkeeper you actually need your defenders to not be able to do the job properly so you can show off your abilities. A keeper like De Gea will probably have about 15-20 games where he does nothing.
 
Sarni said:
Goalkeepers find it more difficult to have a high average score, particularly at a big club where there's going to be little to do in some games and you'll get a casual score of about 6.0 for these sort of games. When you're a forward or a midfielder you can impress pretty much everytime you set your foot on the pitch, when you're a goalkeeper you actually need your defenders to not be able to do the job properly so you can show off your abilities. A keeper like De Gea will probably have about 15-20 games where he does nothing.
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We all hope so, and even more :D (but not because of injury, please).
 
Kounan said:
But didn't de Gea put great performances for A. Madrid against Barcelona?
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That's right. SAF was at the game with Eric Steele. He was also amazing against Real Madrid for us in that first leg in 2013. Also I know it was a friendly but he had a blinder against Barcelona when we played them in Sweden back in 2012. Not sure what that posters argument is in that regard as De Gea has played just as well as Courtois against the big two in Spain.
 
There has to be some recognition of the fact that Courtois has enjoyed steady back line performances all season, whereas De Gea has, to put it mildly, not.

Neuer > De Gea > Courtois.
 
He is just class. Makes saves that seperate him from the good keepers and puts him in the great category, a must have for a top club.

I have no worries about his contract right now, he loves it here and has Herrera and Mata here. I think he will sign a new contract soon, do we get to the end of the season and he hasn't signed yet we should panic.
 
I didn't know that there was a PFA fans player of the month.

Who won the actually award for November or has that no been announced yet?
 
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