David Beckham the player

lawliet354 said:
Current Neville + Becks could still do better job than Mata + Young :lol:
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This may sound ridiculous to some but watching the game yesterday, I just sighed at how those two can understand the basics of wing play more than the dross we currently have out there masquerading as football players. I don't think we would look any worse currently if Becks was our RW.
 
I remember once a truly sick crossfield pass to RVN vs Spurs, the Dutchman didn't score his header but my jaw dropped at the beauty of the trajectory that Beckham gave to his pass.
 
Look back at the goals we score in the Treble seasons and Beckham had a hand in most of them. Keane was POTY for us but I've always thought Beckham was the rightful winner that season.
 
bosnian_red said:
Ronaldo > Best > Beckham > Giggs

Don't think there's a big difference between Becks and Giggs personally, but with Ronaldo and Best in our history, don't think either get in the all time eleven.
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That's fair, but I've never seen Best played apart from youtube highlight so I really cannot include him in my choice

Kemizee said:
This may sound ridiculous to some but watching the game yesterday, I just sighed at how those two can understand the basics of wing play more than the dross we currently have out there masquerading as football players. I don't think we would look any worse currently if Becks was our RW.
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Tbf, I struggle to think any big teams in Europe that have such a dysfunctional right side, and that tells you how ridiculous our transfer plan the last 5 years have been.
 
Bastian said:
Where did this come from? Becks did quite a lot. The only thing he rarely did was take his man on and dribble past him like an orthodox winger. He was always a reliable outlet, great touch, great passing, long and short, near perfect set piece delivery, good shot on him.

David Silva, not that I understand why we are comparing them, is as limited as Becks. What he does well he does fantastically well, and then there are things he doesn't have in his locker.

Out of two world class, albeit different types of players, I'd choose Becks all day long.
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The point is that he was very good at what he did, but in a sense he was part of an approach to the game that was fundamentally wrong. United got away with it because they had such a good team and incredible midfield that they could overwhelm teams, but even then the general consensus is that they underachieved in Europe, against better and more sophisticated teams.

Which teams today have orthodox wingers, who hug the touchlines, continually crossing the ball? None of the top teams play that way because it simply isn't the right approach to the game. You have no game control that way, and you're continually conceding possession with several players in front of the ball. Or else you're crossing to no-one.

That's why eventually United had to tweak their style, and the team with Ronaldo and Rooney played a much more European game.
 
wub1234 said:
The point is that he was very good at what he did, but in a sense he was part of an approach to the game that was fundamentally wrong. United got away with it because they had such a good team and incredible midfield that they could overwhelm teams, but even then the general consensus is that they underachieved in Europe, against better and more sophisticated teams.

Which teams today have orthodox wingers, who hug the touchlines, continually crossing the ball? None of the top teams play that way because it simply isn't the right approach to the game. You have no game control that way, and you're continually conceding possession with several players in front of the ball. Or else you're crossing to no-one.

That's why eventually United had to tweak their style, and the team with Ronaldo and Rooney played a much more European game.
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A post full of football snobbery, we won the treble with that side, the only team English ever to do it.

"Fundamentally wrong" my ass, there is more than one way to skin a cat, try appreciating that fact instead.
 
wub1234 said:
Beckham was a bit like Steven Gerrard for me. He did a lot of dramatic looking stuff, sweeping crossfield balls, brilliant crosses, spectacular free-kicks, but he couldn't do what David Silva does - make a simple but clinical pass in the final third. That's why England have struggled on the international stage for so long, because we don't produce players with that skillset.
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Yet I bet Beckham created more goals over a set period than Silva has done
He didn’t need to dink it around. His strength was that he was the best crosser of a ball in the world, he didn’t even need to beat a man. Why spend time tapping around when he could swing it in first time straight into the danger zone?
 
golden_blunder said:
Yet I bet Beckham created more goals over a set period than Silva has done
He didn’t need to dink it around. His strength was that he was the best crosser of a ball in the world, he didn’t even need to beat a man. Why spend time tapping around when he could swing it in first time straight into the danger zone?
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You can be certain every single striker he ever played with would say Beckham > Silva. Becks was a striker's dream.
 
wub1234 said:
The point is that he was very good at what he did, but in a sense he was part of an approach to the game that was fundamentally wrong. United got away with it because they had such a good team and incredible midfield that they could overwhelm teams, but even then the general consensus is that they underachieved in Europe, against better and more sophisticated teams.

Which teams today have orthodox wingers, who hug the touchlines, continually crossing the ball? None of the top teams play that way because it simply isn't the right approach to the game. You have no game control that way, and you're continually conceding possession with several players in front of the ball. Or else you're crossing to no-one.

That's why eventually United had to tweak their style, and the team with Ronaldo and Rooney played a much more European game.
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What was fundamentally wrong about it!? It was a different era. United were extremely successful using a 442

Let’s not try and rewrite history here to demean what they achieved

Ps. It’s wrong to say the “right approach”. It’s just different and happens in cycles
 
wub1234 said:
The point is that he was very good at what he did, but in a sense he was part of an approach to the game that was fundamentally wrong. United got away with it because they had such a good team and incredible midfield that they could overwhelm teams, but even then the general consensus is that they underachieved in Europe, against better and more sophisticated teams.

Which teams today have orthodox wingers, who hug the touchlines, continually crossing the ball? None of the top teams play that way because it simply isn't the right approach to the game. You have no game control that way, and you're continually conceding possession with several players in front of the ball. Or else you're crossing to no-one.

That's why eventually United had to tweak their style, and the team with Ronaldo and Rooney played a much more European game.
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Having Beckham in the team and maximizing crosses is not fundamentally wrong, that's just tactics and we've had massive success with it. No team right now continue to play with that tactics is simply because there hasn't been any other player with crosses as good as Beckham. I think you watch Ashley Young too much so you identify wing play with crosses as a liability.

If you have peak Beckham and CR7 in the same team I can guarantee most of your tactics will involve give it to Becks and cross 100 times
 
RedRonaldo said:
His celebrity status is too big at that time, bigger than Ronaldo+Messi combined, and too big that make people forget he is actually a good football player too. And he is living during the era of Zidane and Pirlo too. I feel he is still among the top 3-5 midfielder in the world during his time, he is by far the best crosser I’ve ever seen, his work rate is top class too.

His weakness though is his lack of dribbling and pace when playing as winger in 442, his supreme long pass and cross more than compensate it. Should he play in today’s modern 433, he might be even better player.

I think the best sum up is when people regard Beckham has a “golden right foot”.
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Agree on this point. He'd be like KDB only bloody good looking.
 
golden_blunder said:
Yet I bet Beckham created more goals over a set period than Silva has done
He didn’t need to dink it around. His strength was that he was the best crosser of a ball in the world, he didn’t even need to beat a man. Why spend time tapping around when he could swing it in first time straight into the danger zone?
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To be fair Geebs he has a point in that on the face of it Becks is clearly the player with more output in terms of assists and goals but when you look at it from a more nuanced POV you realise that someone like Silva has a massive influence on how his team dictates the flow of the game and is an ideal midfielder for a top European side especially in modern football. Way Silva moves off the ball, plays little triangles, the consistency of his short passes and hits it through the lines on the floor - he is a more influential and suited player to the modern game.

For those who say Beckham would be like KDB - KDB is a much better link player in central areas, way better movement off the ball and a more versatile ball-carrier, passes it along the floor very well and a much better killer passer in terms of threading it through defences whereas Beckham doesn’t quite have the capacity to hit deft through balls on the run in central areas which is why he was beat placed out wide as his long passing in terms of switching play and crossing could be maximised.

Where I disagree with WUB is that this idea of getting it out to Becks wasn’t very sophisticated. You’re not talking about a hit and hope crosser here - he’s the best of all time and fashions opportunities at will - there was no luck involved as he has that ball tied up on a string when he puts it in and therefore it made sense to maximise that unique weapon. There is unlikely to be another Beckham so that is why it wouldn’t be used as a strategy for other teams to simply copy and replicate. So in that sense I get the ‘wrong’ comment but it’s a bit heavy handed.

Final point is Beckham had enough football IQ, touch and technique and workrate to thrive in the modern game and if coached under a Pep or Klopp - he’d have no doubt adapted his game and got better at the link up parts of his game and become a better central player. He was unlikely to do that under Fergie, who for all his strengths as a manager, didn't 'produce' great central players on the back of his own coaching but relied on spotting those type of players i.e. Cantona/Scholes.

I can’t see how he would have played as a right winger in the modern game tbh unless he has a very special attacking full back next to him but I imagine he could have been turned into a CM of some kind with his work rate and vision. Or a right sided CM in a diamond.

He’s too talented to not find his way somehow in the modern game but it would have had to have been coached into him in his more formative years as his game was too ‘long ball’ and not enough ball carrying skills for him to have adapted later into his career.
 
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He became obsessed with hitting every pass 70 yards. This especially stood out as a problem for England and was one of the main reasons why Scholes became marginalized at international level. He was a superb long range passer, but it became predictable and stopped the team from building a proper style. Gerrard saw how much praise he got for it and played in his own self indulgent way, and thus 10 years of excellent players was wasted by the ego of star names.

Great workrate, delivery and set piece threat at Utd. Didn't have have the short passing vision/flexibility to match the best CM players.

Giggs was the most talented of the 3 but the least consistent.
Beckham was the least talented but honed what talents he had to the highest level(crossing) he could.
Scholes slightly overrated imo(only by those who put him up there with the likes of Zidane and Xavi), perhaps based on how many like to conflate all periods of his career into one player. Up to 22/23 he was splitting time with Nicky Butt, then established himself as a goal-scoring midfielder/passer. Then as Keane dropped off a transition to a deeper play-maker.
 
Bobski said:
He became obsessed with hitting every pass 70 yards. This especially stood out as a problem for England and was one of the main reasons why Scholes became marginalized at international level. He was a superb long range passer, but it became predictable and stopped the team from building a proper style. Gerrard saw how much praise he got for it and played in his own self indulgent way, and thus 10 years of excellent players was wasted by the ego of star names.

Great workrate, delivery and set piece threat at Utd. Didn't have have the short passing vision/flexibility to match the best CM players.

Giggs was the most talented of the 3 but the least consistent.
Beckham was the least talented but honed what talents he had to the highest level(crossing) he could.
Scholes slightly overrated imo(only by those who put him up there with the likes of Zidane and Xavi), perhaps based on how many like to conflate all periods of his career into one player. Up to 22/23 he was splitting time with Nicky Butt, then established himself as a goal-scoring midfielder/passer. Then as Keane dropped off a transition to a deeper play-maker.
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Player utilising his strenght to the max, team utilising their player strenght. Not sure what you're talking about

David bechkam is an assist machine, what he did works. What gerrard did didnt.
 
Sky1981 said:
Player utilising his strenght to the max, team utilising their player strenght. Not sure what you're talking about

David bechkam is an assist machine, what he did works. What gerrard did didnt.
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Would you have wanted Giggs dribbling every single time he got the ball, even if it was in a dangerous position and not really on? He was "an assist machine" as well.

To elaborate I think he lost the balance of his game as his fame grew, earlier he was more patient and discerning in waiting for the right opportunity, would defer to others, get higher up the pitch where he was much more threatening, allowed more of a structured attack overall.
 
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wub1234 said:
The point is that he was very good at what he did, but in a sense he was part of an approach to the game that was fundamentally wrong. United got away with it because they had such a good team and incredible midfield that they could overwhelm teams, but even then the general consensus is that they underachieved in Europe, against better and more sophisticated teams.

Which teams today have orthodox wingers, who hug the touchlines, continually crossing the ball? None of the top teams play that way because it simply isn't the right approach to the game. You have no game control that way, and you're continually conceding possession with several players in front of the ball. Or else you're crossing to no-one.

That's why eventually United had to tweak their style, and the team with Ronaldo and Rooney played a much more European game.
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Fundamentally wrong approach to the game? Wow.
 
Bobski said:
Would you have wanted Giggs dribbling every single time he got the ball, even if it was in a dangerous position and not really on? He was "an assist machine" as well.

To elaborate I think he lost the balance of his game as his fame grew, earlier he was more patient and discerning in waiting for the right opportunity, would defer to others, get higher up the pitch where he was much more threatening, allowed more of a structured attack overall.
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Giggs was flashy at times. But becks did the job done most of the times.
 
Sky1981 said:
Giggs was flashy at times. But becks did the job done most of the times.
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He did and I think Fergie had enough authority to limit Beckham's self indulgence. He was never as bad in that manner at Utd as he was for England. Fergie moved him on before things could escalate to that point. The praise he got for that Greece game is a key point, yes he put an incredible shift in but one of the reasons England struggled so badly in that match is Beckham being constantly out of position, roaming all over the placer leaving massive gaps for Greece to exploit, not trusting his teammates, turned it into a chaotic game.

Kind of how how he started at Madrid as well, can't have Beckham dominating the style when you have Zidane, Guti, Figo, Raul and Ronaldo as team-mates. Ended up losing his place until he accepted a wide role again and showed more discipline in his play.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
You could have argued that he was only the 4th best midfielder at United at that time, however.
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4th? Keane, Giggs and... Scholes didn’t even had a guaranteed starting place in the line up, although generally he was preferred to Butt.
 
90% of the football City played in the last decade was working the wide players to the byline, Utd of the late 90s were no different in that. Keane Butt Scholes Yorke/Sheringham played excellent football on the edge of the box with the intention of giving the wingers a free go at delivering quality, even yesterday there were examples of this.
 
Bobski said:
He did and I think Fergie had enough authority to limit Beckham's self indulgence. He was never as bad in that manner at Utd as he was for England. Fergie moved him on before things could escalate to that point. The praise he got for that Greece game is a key point, yes he put an incredible shift in but one of the reasons England struggled so badly in that match is Beckham being constantly out of position, roaming all over the placer leaving massive gaps for Greece to exploit, not trusting his teammates, turned it into a chaotic game.

Kind of how how he started at Madrid as well, can't have Beckham dominating the style when you have Zidane, Guti, Figo, Raul and Ronaldo as team-mates. Ended up losing his place until he accepted a wide role again and showed more discipline in his play.
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Beck wasnt star enough in Madrid to have the squad altered to his liking. But he gets the job done either way. The last time he made peace with capello he features alot and they won the league if my memory serves me correctly. His quality didnt drop even when he's 35 playing for milan. Absolute pro in my eyes. He could have retired a wealthy man at 30 but he kept on playing.
 
I think he gets underrated now with all the off the field stuff.

He was a fantastic player.
 
The Cat said:
Never ever doubted the player even if he was annoying off the pitch sometimes.
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I mean people see him as a celebrity first and miss the fact he was an incredible football player. At the time he was here it was less of an issue.
 
Red_toad said:
Superb player until he encountered the Posh one. Dead ball and crossing ability was out of this world, worked exceptionally hard on that aspect of the game. Had the pleasure of meeting him outside the ground a few times, always had time for the fans and pre-posh, appeared a good down to earth bloke.
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What a load of rubbish.

He was what, 21-22 when he met her and only a couple of years post Preston loan? And you're saying he was "superb" already but what.... went downhill after meeting a Spice Girl? :lol:

His best years (and lots of them) were ahead of him.

Are you an All Saints fan or Mel B in disguise?

(PS. He's always been a down to earth guy, before and after her).
 
BeforeKeanetherewasRobson said:
What a load of rubbish.

He was what, 21-22 when he met her and only a couple of years post Preston loan? And you're saying he was "superb" already but what.... went downhill after meeting a Spice Girl? :lol:

His best years (and lots of them) were ahead of him.

Are you an All Saints fan or Mel B in disguise?

(PS. He's always been a down to earth guy, before and after her).
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Hey I suppose you know him better than Sir Alex, she had an affect on him it's unquestionable.

As for now, he's stuck up his own arse multi millionaire all about promoting brand Beckham. Give me a Gary Pallister for a down to earth ex footie player, Becks lost touch a long time ago.

I believe their first encounter was a 1997 Leeds pre-season freindly, where her and sporty spice came on at half time, George Best also. I was there. Yes Becks was a superb player then.

Married her in 99, first fall out with Fergie in 2000, yeah she had no effect. But I suppose you've gotten more insight into him that Sir Alex, so I shall bow to your wisdom.

But here's Sir Alex's thoughts on his relationship for what it's worth

"He was never a problem until he got married. He used to go into work with the academy coaches at night time, he was a fantastic young lad. Getting married into that entertainment scene was a difficult thing – from that moment, his life was never going to be the same. He is such a big celebrity, football is only a small part."' – Alex Ferguson speaking about Beckham's marriage in 2007
 
GazTheLegend said:
no, he's absolutely right.

As soon as Gerrard came up against a real world class CM in Andrea Pirlo, he got humbled.

Beckham got shifted on to the right because he absolutely was NOT world class in central midfield.... he had world class attributes but he never really looked convincing in a two man pairing in midfield. Beckham could be nullified by man marking - that didn't happen so much on the wings.
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We will just have to agree to disagree.
 
Undeniably world class for a long period. Best crosser of all time. Could see and disguise long/crossfield/deep crosses like nobody else. Combine that with a work rate I've never seen the likes of.. That England performance against Greece to qualify for the 2002(?) World Cup might be the best individual performance I've seen, ever. From anyone. He dragged a country to the World Cup. He was everywhere for 90 minutes.. Utterly amazing.

It would've been easy to dislike the guy for the celebrity life, the fancy hair (wish I had fancy hair), the leaving for Madrid and then America... But he was so committed, so professional, so mentally tough on the pitch, that it was impossible to not love the guy.
 
Red_toad said:
Hey I suppose you know him better than Sir Alex, she had an affect on him it's unquestionable.

As for now, he's stuck up his own arse multi millionaire all about promoting brand Beckham. Give me a Gary Pallister for a down to earth ex footie player, Becks lost touch a long time ago.

I believe their first encounter was a 1997 Leeds pre-season freindly, where her and sporty spice came on at half time, George Best also. I was there. Yes Becks was a superb player then.

Married her in 99, first fall out with Fergie in 2000, yeah she had no effect. But I suppose you've gotten more insight into him that Sir Alex, so I shall bow to your wisdom.

But here's Sir Alex's thoughts on his relationship for what it's worth

"He was never a problem until he got married. He used to go into work with the academy coaches at night time, he was a fantastic young lad. Getting married into that entertainment scene was a difficult thing – from that moment, his life was never going to be the same. He is such a big celebrity, football is only a small part."' – Alex Ferguson speaking about Beckham's marriage in 2007
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See you've gone away and spent some time googling? Try harder, it was a charity game. Surprised you don't know that.... being as you were there :nono:?

And trying to ignore your comments about him being "superb pre Posh" (because it's garbage) and focus on her/her impact by quoting SAF'S book and making smart arse comments like "I suppose you know him better than Sir Alex".

Surprised you say you were at that game as it's 20 years ago and you sound 12.

(Edit/PS. Your/SAFs comment about training .... odd, being as every manager Beckham has had has praised his dedication including SAF (when he isn't being bitter and got a book to sell) Being as you like quoting from Google..... Ferguson said that Beckham "practised with a discipline to achieve an accuracy that other players wouldn't care about." SAF has never liked anything that could detract from total devotion OR players having an alternative opinion. As fans we got the benefit of that.)
 
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My favorite player ever.
He was world-class. The lifestyle blurred a lot of peoples vision on how good he actually was.
 
I've always been disappointed at how even United fans underrated Beckham.
The guy was a perpetual-motion, trigonometry computer.
Watch videos of his assists and consider only 1 in 4 or 5 of those deliveries were successfully despatched by the striker.
Pinpoint accuracy, delivered like a machine.

He was successful in Manchester, Madrid, Milan and Paris. How many players do well in two different leagues, let alone four?

I miss his kind of contribution for our club, not only in effort, but it feels like we haven't had as many accurate crosses, in total, since he left to present day, as we had from him, in the years he was here.

He would have loved today's 433, but it was out wide, where he was most devastating.
 
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