Darren Fletcher | 2013/14 Performances

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I was watching some highlights from the Milan 4-0 win in 2010 and Darren was excellent. He was excellent all of that season actually (as well as 08/09).

He was very high energy and was able to press high up the pitch and win the ball. While he wasn't the most creative passer he regularly was able to circulate the ball at a very accuracy and high tempo. Something that is criminally lacking from our team currently.

At his best he was hardly 'limited'. Not amongst the greatest or anything but we could do with a young Darren Fletcher at the moment.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
We've probably disagree on this in the past. I think that's harsh. At his best, Fletch allied a fantastic work-rate with a really impressive and consistent range of passing. Definitely one of the better CMs in the league when he was at his best. To be fair, that was only for a couple of seasons though. It's obvious with hindsight that his illness was taking a lot out of him long before it all came out in the wash (so to speak!)
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Maybe. But I'm talking about him in the context of him being compared to the best players around at that time. He's always been one of my favourite players but for me his greatest abilities were always in stopping the opposition playing.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
In the same way he didn't take to Phil Neville at Everton?
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I don't really see the relevance of that question to this discussion. We're about to lose all of Giggs, Rio, Vidic and probably Evra. We lost Scholes and Ferguson last season. Actively selling one of the last remnants of a squad that won trophy after trophy, even though he's perfectly capable of acting as a squad player and ushering the development of younger players, is something I don't really understand. Moyes needs winners in his squad, because he or his staff, other than Neville, don't have those experiences. The last thing I want to see is a United team that is reduced to the loser-ish symptoms of a recent Arsenal side. That would be torture.
 
Brophs said:
Nah, balls to that. I'm not getting into these boring discussions about definitions of 'top player' but pick whatever definition you like and Fletcher isn't, or wasn't one. Plus it's only revisionism if I didn't hold these opinions then, as it seems a pretty loaded argument to hold me to 'facts' I don't even accept.

What he was was a very good player who had a fantastic attitude and who was physically able to unsettle teams with the way he could press and get around. Much like our squad as a whole, he arguably over-performed in those years. That's a testament to his character and the manager, IMO. And as I said, I'd like to see him remain, but if he's in the team in big games in the next year or two then we have problems, as he's not the player he was. That's not an insult, it's judging him on his peformances since he returned. I'd love to be proven wrong after a good pre-season, but I'm not sure I will be.
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Well like it or not, Fletcher was playing against some of the so-called best midfielders in Europe - other than the Barcelona midfield - and coming out on top. I agree the discussion about labels is terribly boring, but he was right up there and kicking it about with the best of them.
 
Kag said:
I don't really see the relevance of that question to this discussion. We're about to lose all of Giggs, Rio, Vidic and probably Evra. We lost Scholes and Ferguson last season. Actively selling one of the last remnants of a squad that won trophy after trophy, even though he's perfectly capable of acting as a squad player and ushering the development of younger players, is something I don't really understand. Moyes needs winners in his squad, because he or his staff, other than Neville, don't have those experiences. The last thing I want to see is a United team that is reduced to the loser-ish symptoms of a recent Arsenal side. That would be torture.
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Unlike Arsenal we're blessed with a squad that is full of players who have won major trophies before. Do they have anyone in their first team that won a single trophy? We've got loads.

I like Fletcher. He's got a great attitude and was once a very good player. I don't think he has a monopoly on this hypothetical "winning mentality" we need in our squad though. If he can't hack it on the pitch, I wouldn't hesitate in getting rid of him. Absolutely madness to hold on to a player who isn't good enough because of some tenuous idea about their presence somehow changing the mentality of other players in the squad.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Unlike Arsenal we're blessed with a squad that is full of players who have won major trophies before. Do they have anyone in their first team that won a single trophy? We've got loads.

I like Fletcher. He's got a great attitude and was once a very good player. I don't think he has a monopoly on this hypothetical "winning mentality" we need in our squad though. If he can't hack it on the pitch, I wouldn't hesitate in getting rid of him. Absolutely madness to hold on to a player who isn't good enough because of some tenuous idea about their presence somehow changing the mentality of other players in the squad.
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I don't know. But they once did, and a big problem they eventually encountered was that they didn't replace them with winners. They bought idiots like Arshavin. They made a total brat like Gallas their captain. See the parallels? It's alright that we go out there and spunk money here, there and everywhere, but any rush to get rid of experience - and like I've said before, I still think Fletch is good enough to play for us - will probably not end very well. And on a playing level, given last night's evidence I'd be getting rid of Carrick faster than I would Fletcher.
 
Kag said:
I don't know. But they once did, and a big problem they eventually encountered was that they didn't replace them with winners. They bought idiots like Arshavin. They made a total brat like Gallas their captain. See the parallels? It's alright that we go out there and spunk money here, there and everywhere, but any rush to get rid of experience - and like I've said before, I still think Fletch is good enough to play for us - will probably not end very well. And on a playing level, given last night's evidence I'd be getting rid of Carrick faster than I would Fletcher.
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Thankfully, Moyes won't make any decisions based on the evidence of a single night. Carrick remains - and always has been - a superior CM to Fletcher.

They were both fairly shite last night fwiw. You know that Fletcher completed less than 3 out of every 5 passes? That's woeful.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Thankfully, Moyes won't make any decisions based on the evidence of a single night. Carrick remains - and always has been - a superior CM to Fletcher.

They were both fairly shite last night fwiw. You know that Fletcher completed less than 3 out of every 5 passes? That's woeful.
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He's a more talented player, absolutely, but had Fletcher not been struck down by illness then I think it'd be a different discussion. He was a lot better for the two seasons leading up to it. Carrick had a bad slump back then and eventually picked things up at the start of 2011, most notably those Chelsea CL ties.

I agree that they were totally shite, I mentioned that above. They held us back, and that stat doesn't surprise me.
 
Brophs said:
Fletcher is just a symptom of the problems we've got in central midfield. Even at his very best he wasn't a top player and the fact that he still looks good for us despite not being the same player tells you all you need to know about our midfield. Right back into Fergie's time we've been conceding the midfield against top sides and until we upgrade the players we have that's going to continue to happen. I don't think we have a midfielder that'd get into another top side in Europe. It'd be a shame to see Fletch leave and I hope he can give us another season or two as a squad player but to actually move forward we need to have real quality throughout the midfield and he's probably not capable of offering that, at least not on a consistent basis.
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Are you going to wish the same for the manager as well Brophs?
 
Only Smalling (52%), De Gea (58%) and Welbeck (60%) gave the ball away more than Fletcher (61% pass accuracy). Really not what you want away at one of the two best possession based teams in the world. Your central midfielders need to keep the ball and he lost all composure under their pressing.
 
Kag said:
He's a more talented player, absolutely, but had Fletcher not been struck down by illness then I think it'd be a different discussion. He was a lot better for the two seasons leading up to it. Carrick had a bad slump back then and eventually picked things up at the start of 2011, most notably those Chelsea CL ties.

I agree that they were totally shite, I mentioned that above. They held us back, and that stat doesn't surprise me.
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Yeah, I think that's a fair summary. Sods law we never really saw the best of both of them in the same season. As a pair of deep-lying CMs they potentially work really well together. The best performance I can remember from the two of them together was when we ran rings around the Inter team that Mourinho was managing, with Ibra up front. One of our best CL performances ever IMO, despite the scoreline.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Yeah, I think that's a fair summary. Sods law we never really saw the best of both of them in the same season. As a pair of deep-lying CMs they potentially work really well together. The best performance I can remember from the two of them together was when we ran rings around the Inter team that Mourinho was managing, with Ibra up front. One of our best CL performances ever IMO, despite the scoreline.
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Yep. In theory, the pair of them fit and on form should have been very, very good together. Fletcher really is just a horrendously unlucky footballer, at the top level anyway. Obviously, he's still had a great career.
 
He played well against Bayern and was definitely the best of our midfielders, which wasn't hard. Once he went off, the midfield battle was non existent.

I hope we keep him on. He has looked decent since he came back, back 2 very poor games. He has a fantastic attitude and is clearly well liked in the dressing room. He could be someone who could help bring the younger players through. And he should have extra football in him since he missed a couple of years.
 
I think it's also worth keeping in mind that it was, as far as I'm aware, the first time he's played twice in a week for a couple years or so.

The fitter he gets his football will only get better too.
 
kundalini said:
I thought he was awful in terms of retaining possession, building moves. Defensively he did slightly better but still looked on the slow side.
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I agree. I'm astonished that there are people who thought he played well.

Clearly we should be aiming higher and expecting more for a midfielder, even if we're talking about a back up. Fletcher before his illness was a very average, run-of-the-mill player (although his one very good season will have some people up in arms about such a description), so the kind of player we can expect now isn't going to be any better.
 
Rowem said:
I think it's also worth keeping in mind that it was, as far as I'm aware, the first time he's played twice in a week for a couple years or so.

The fitter he gets his football will only get better too.
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How much better do you expect it to get?

Teams like Bayern and Barcelona wouldn't be caught dead with a midfielder of Fletcher's ability in their midfields. Never mind a player of that ability who is now 30 and has had a lengthy period out with a severe illness.

In footballing terms, Fletcher shouldn't be part of our future plans. We need to ask ourselves, do we want our team to be a Barcelona or a Bayern Munich, or do we want it to be a second-rate team.
 
rednev said:
How much better do you expect it to get?

Teams like Bayern and Barcelona wouldn't be caught dead with a midfielder of Fletcher's ability in their midfields. Never mind a player of that ability who is now 30 and has had a lengthy period out with a severe illness.

In footballing terms, Fletcher shouldn't be part of our future plans. We need to ask ourselves, do we want our team to be a Barcelona or a Bayern Munich, or do we want it to be a second-rate team.
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They wouldn't be caught dead with any of our central midfielders in their squad, never mind the team.

In relation to Fletcher, he is still a good PL midfielder and definitely worth keeping. We still need to rebuild the midfield, but he's one that should be kept. We are not going to buy 4 centre midfielders.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Unlike Arsenal we're blessed with a squad that is full of players who have won major trophies before. Do they have anyone in their first team that won a single trophy? We've got loads.

I like Fletcher. He's got a great attitude and was once a very good player. I don't think he has a monopoly on this hypothetical "winning mentality" we need in our squad though. If he can't hack it on the pitch, I wouldn't hesitate in getting rid of him. Absolutely madness to hold on to a player who isn't good enough because of some tenuous idea about their presence somehow changing the mentality of other players in the squad.
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We have got loads.

Arsenal have Podolski (one of each trophy in Germany), Rosicky (Czech and German league), Mertesacker (the German CC), Vermaelen (everything in Holland), Arteta (Scottish titles), Giroud (Ligue 1), Bendtner (Serie A) and Flamini (FA Cup, Serie A and two small barely trophies). A bunch of players that have won few titles but not with Arsenal (apart from Flamini).

I agree about Fletcher. I like him as well. But I think his body can't handle it anymore. If we can sell him we should.
 
Name Changed said:
They wouldn't be caught dead with any of our central midfielders in their squad, never mind the team.

In relation to Fletcher, he is still a good PL midfielder and definitely worth keeping. We still need to rebuild the midfield, but he's one that should be kept. We are not going to buy 4 centre midfielders.
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There are probably dozens of midfielders in mid-table sides across the top leagues of Europe who are playing at a higher level than Fletcher. We could easily replace him as a back-up for a very small amount of money.
 
Fletcher should go to MLS and spend the remainder of his career having fun, dominating lesser players, mentoring youngsters, and picking up a great payday.

Though I'm sure he'll receive plenty of offers in England and other top leagues.
 
rednev said:
There are probably dozens of midfielders in mid-table sides across the top leagues of Europe who are playing at a higher level than Fletcher. We could easily replace him as a back-up for a very small amount of money.
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Regardless, we need two have four central midfielders in the squad minimum. None of our players are good enough for the likes of Bayern Munich. We still aren't going to buy 4 midfielders, regardless of how cheap some might be.
 
rednev said:
How much better do you expect it to get?

Teams like Bayern and Barcelona wouldn't be caught dead with a midfielder of Fletcher's ability in their midfields. Never mind a player of that ability who is now 30 and has had a lengthy period out with a severe illness.

In footballing terms, Fletcher shouldn't be part of our future plans. We need to ask ourselves, do we want our team to be a Barcelona or a Bayern Munich, or do we want it to be a second-rate team.
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How much better do I expect what to get? His fitness? Still quite a bit better presumably.

I don't really understand the point of your post. I suggested that Fletcher will get better as his fitness improves, which is undeniable. I didn't suggest that he is going to become a key player for our future first team plans. However I think he is more than capable of being a useful backup option in the squad, behind Carrick and some new blood in midfield.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Thankfully, Moyes won't make any decisions based on the evidence of a single night. Carrick remains - and always has been - a superior CM to Fletcher.

They were both fairly shite last night fwiw. You know that Fletcher completed less than 3 out of every 5 passes? That's woeful.
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I have said it a million times and said it when Fletcher came back, say goodbye to Carrick's form if he's playing anywhere near Fletcher.
 
Stack said:
Why does this happen?
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IMO, Carrick's game is based around positioning, intercepting and rarely having to tackle. Fletchers positioning when we're not in possession has always been suspect and therefore leaves Carrick more space to cover.
When we have the ball Carrick needs time to pick out a pass but like fletcher he's not the most mobile, so he needs a partner that can create the time and space with close ball control that draws in the opponent, Fletcher can not offer this. Which leaves Carrick under pressure and therefore unable to pick out the passes that he is notorious for.
 
All 3 United said:
IMO, Carrick's game is based around positioning, intercepting and rarely having to tackle. Fletchers positioning when we're not in possession has always been suspect and therefore leaves Carrick more space to cover.
When we have the ball Carrick needs time to pick out a pass but like fletcher he's not the most mobile, so he needs a partner that can create the time and space with close ball control that draws in the opponent, Fletcher can not offer this. Which leaves Carrick under pressure and therefore unable to pick out the passes that he is notorious for.
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Cheers
 
All 3 United said:
IMO, Carrick's game is based around positioning, intercepting and rarely having to tackle. Fletchers positioning when we're not in possession has always been suspect and therefore leaves Carrick more space to cover.
When we have the ball Carrick needs time to pick out a pass but like fletcher he's not the most mobile, so he needs a partner that can create the time and space with close ball control that draws in the opponent, Fletcher can not offer this. Which leaves Carrick under pressure and therefore unable to pick out the passes that he is notorious for.
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Absolute garbage.

But it's you who's posting so I know I shouldn't take anything you say about Fletcher seriously.

Couldn't let that slide though, against my better judgement. There's a lot wrong in the rest of the post but the bit in bold was monumentally incorrect.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Absolute garbage.

But it's you who's posting so I know I shouldn't take anything you say about Fletcher seriously.

Couldn't let that slide though, against my better judgement. There's a lot wrong in the rest of the post but the bit in bold was monumentally incorrect.
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His positioning has always been suspect. You can normally tell when he's pointing at the man that he's supposed to be marking.

My point about fletcher for the past god knows how many years has been proven by SAFs decision to appoint Moyes. End of. Face it.
 
All 3 United said:
My point about fletcher for the past god knows how many years has been proven by SAFs decision to appoint Moyes. End of. Face it.
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Isn't that a bit unfair on a player who has been suffering with quite a major illness throughout his career?
 
Some interesting re-writing of history going on here. He's never been positionally suspect and for a year or two he was one of our best players in arguably our greatest side. Say what you want about his form since his return but saying he was anything less than a very good midfielder beforehand is pure fiction.
 
mufcwarm92 said:
Some interesting re-writing of history going on here. He's never been positionally suspect and for a year or two he was one of our best players in arguably our greatest side. Say what you want about his form since his return but saying he was anything less than a very good midfielder beforehand is pure fiction.
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Really? I would actually say his passing and composure have improved since coming back from injury. His energy has obviously diminished, which was his main attribute back when he was the saviour of our midfield....!!
 
All 3 United said:
Chuffed for him recovering from his illness but I've really never been a fan.
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Never had a problem with him cos he always did a solid job for us and let's face it, someone's got to do that for the team. Can't remember him letting us down defensively or otherwise before his illness that is. I'd like to see how he would do under better management if we hopefully get that next season.
 
Get rid please. Had one good season but other than that complete waste of time.
 
In a season full of abject performances from United players, Fletcher has topped them all today.

Absolutely shambolic display.
 
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