Darren Fletcher | 2013/14 Performances

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I don't really blame him or Clev for the second half pre the Fabio red card. They started the game outnumbered 2 to 3 and then more and more it became 2 on 4 as Bony dropped off, not to mention their wingers cutting in. We did nothing to address that situation. Ahead of them it was very hard to pick someone else as Swansea had so many playrs forward and then as I said there were getting completely outnumbered when Swansea had the ball and we just didn't address that.

When he went right back you'd hope for better but I was surprised he got beat for pace. Looks a bit slower, think Clev should have been the one to go there not Fletch.

Either way his performance in general is one of the few plus points from the game.
 
He slows the play down (that's not changed), needs too may touches, he's just not united quality and never has been. That said neither are all but one of the other central midfielders currently on the books.
 
Ash_G said:
I don't really blame him or Clev for the second half pre the Fabio red card. They started the game outnumbered 2 to 3 and then more and more it became 2 on 4 as Bony dropped off, not to mention their wingers cutting in. We did nothing to address that situation. Ahead of them it was very hard to pick someone else as Swansea had so many playrs forward and then as I said there were getting completely outnumbered when Swansea had the ball and we just didn't address that.

When he went right back you'd hope for better but I was surprised he got beat for pace. Looks a bit slower, think Clev should have been the one to go there not Fletch.

Either way his performance in general is one of the few plus points from the game.
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Has little to say for their passing game. They both got space for most of the match, but was way, way to slow in their passing.
 
Giggsforever said:
Has little to say for their passing game. They both got space for most of the match, but was way, way to slow in their passing.
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Passing was fine in the first half, second half as I said swansea more and more flooded the middle, I thought we needed someone to properly drop off to make it a three there with Welbeck playing pretty high when we were in possession. They were restricted to long passes which Fletch anyway largely pulled off.
 
Started off well but really faded in the second half. As much as Clev he just doesnt bring enough going forward.
 
Was the only one today who played well really, we really missed him. Composed on the ball, playing the right ball the majority of the time, staying in his position unlike cleverley always, and not afraid to pass it forward. Keep it going lad, great to see the recovery he's made after I genuinely thought he was done at this level.
 
The only bright spark today, he looks like he's on his way back to his best. He'll be a welcome addition to the midfield until the end of the season!
 
Ash_G said:
Passing was fine in the first half, second half as I said swansea more and more flooded the middle, I thought we needed someone to properly drop off to make it a three there with Welbeck playing pretty high when we were in possession. They were restricted to long passes which Fletch anyway largely pulled off.
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I agree that the passing was fine, as I said as well. The passing in it self was ok, but the problem was that they took to much time and that is why Swansea got back and they had to play long or on wide players with players in front of them. It messes up our game, because we can never play a fluid game with midfielders playing like that. We are just to easy to play against like that. Then we are we have to rely on induvidual efforts each time.
 
bosnian_red said:
Was the only one today who played well really, we really missed him. Composed on the ball, playing the right ball the majority of the time, staying in his position unlike cleverley always, and not afraid to pass it forward. Keep it going lad, great to see the recovery he's made after I genuinely thought he was done at this level.
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agreed, but i still think he s far from being fully fit. Once he get that, he ll help us solve midfield issues
 
Giggsforever said:
I agree that the passing was fine, as I said as well. The passing in it self was ok, but the problem was that they took to much time and that is why Swansea got back and they had to play long or on wide players with players in front of them.
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Do you not think that was down to a lack of options. First half we had more space in the final third and Fletch out of the two of them used it well and played some nice penetrative passes. Second half they tightened up in the middle and we did nothing to react to that. As I said Fletch/Clev needed some dropping off and draggin Swansea's midfielders out of position to open space to move in to or to give a passing angle centrally. fletch/Clev weren't perfect but I'd say the problem was more so in the lack of short options ahead of them, then them not making the most of what was there.
 
Played the 'Carrick role' really well I thought. Good quick forward passes with good defensive positioning off the ball. More of the same please. He's a big plus point atm.
 
Was fine in midfield. Front four weren't creating anything though which is what really did us over.

Our only attacking threat was from Smalling and Buttner.

Fletcher looked good enough in the centre for me. He did the passing, Cleverley was putting his foot in and getting in their faces.

People felt sorry for Fabio, but I felt sorry for Fletcher going to RB. He couldn't handle Routledge's pace unfortunately.
 
Ash_G said:
Do you not think that was down to a lack of options. First half we had more space in the final third and Fletch out of the two of them used it well and played some nice penetrative passes. Second half they tightened up in the middle and we did nothing to react to that. As I said Fletch/Clev needed some dropping off and draggin Swansea's midfielders out of position to open space to move in to or to give a passing angle centrally. fletch/Clev weren't perfect but I'd say the problem was more so in the lack of short options ahead of them, then them not making the most of what was there.
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Yes, I can agree with your tactical observation as well. We should maybe have played Kagawa in a more retracted role and Welbeck out wide (not his best position, but the tactical outweighs that in this case). It would have done us better. But, it's still a massive problem for us that our midfielders, that are largely responsible for how fast and fluid we attack, is using far to much time on the ball and make us play so rigid, predictable and so easy to defend against. It's almost boring to watch.
 
Had an excellent game. If he remains fit he could be first choice with Carrick in midfield. He was passing almost like Scholes. I thought he would come back a shadow of himself.
 
Giggsforever said:
Yes, I can agree with your tactical observation as well. We should maybe have played Kagawa in a more retracted role and Welbeck out wide (not his best position, but the tactical outweighs that in this case). It would have done us better. But, it's still a massive problem for us that our midfielders, that are largely responsible for how fast and fluid we attack, is using far to much time on the ball and make us play so rigid, predictable and so easy to defend against. It's almost boring to watch.
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I think though in this case the slowness for those two by Fletcher still getting back in to things and Clev having played a lot of games in a short period. I think slow build up play is an issue for us but I don't think its always just the midfielders fault. I think they're often left isolated, being outnumbered in most games with it rare that someone will drop off properly and be more of an a/m then a centre forward which I think is a key part in getting a fluid style, I can't think of many times when a short option was on and they were slow to see it. Sometimes it's true that we are slow there no doubt or unwilling to try that pass but I'd say more often that pass is just not on for various reasons. Additionally today I thought the CB's particularly Rio should have done better stepping forward. They only had one player to mark and so one should have been able to push up but they didn't do it much, this again for me led to Swansea being able to maintain their shape in the middle, making it harder to pick out quick options.

I agree that it can make things boring, and certainly frustrating, it's a recurring theme brought on by various factors that I mentioned above and some others imo, but I thought today the problem was more so with what was happenning around them, than them in particular.
 
Ash_G said:
I think though in this case the slowness for those two by Fletcher still getting back in to things and Clev having played a lot of games in a short period. I think slow build up play is an issue for us but I don't think its always just the midfielders fault. I think they're often left isolated, being outnumbered in most games with it rare that someone will drop off properly and be more of an a/m then a centre forward which I think is a key part in getting a fluid style, I can't think of many times when a short option was on and they were slow to see it. Sometimes it's true that we are slow there no doubt or unwilling to try that pass but I'd say more often that pass is just not on for various reasons. Additionally today I thought the CB's particularly Rio should have done better stepping forward. They only had one player to mark and so one should have been able to push up but they didn't do it much, this again for me led to Swansea being able to maintain their shape in the middle, making it harder to pick out quick options.

I agree that it can make things boring, and certainly frustrating, it's a recurring theme brought on by various factors that I mentioned above and some others imo, but I thought today the problem was more so with what was happenning around them, than them in particular.
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If we want to be amongst the best, we will have to have a lot better in midfield than Fletcher and Cleverly. Do we want to play them and be happy with it, then we can't expect winning the PL or CL. Playing Xavi and Iniesta or Sweinsteiger and Martinez, then we will be in real trouble. If you can't do it against a midfield like Swansea (that was poor in pressing our midfield and are made up by avrage footallers) then we have no chance what so ever against these kind of teams, or City for that matter.

We need to have a certain correlation between what players we want on the pitch and what we expect from the team. Not one player on the pitch today would start a game for one of the great European clubs.
 
Giggsforever said:
If we want to be amongst the best, we will have to have a lot better in midfield than Fletcher and Cleverly. Do we want to play them and be happy with it, then we can't expect winning the PL or CL. Playing Xavi and Iniesta or Sweinsteiger and Martinez, then we will be in real trouble. If you can't do it against a midfield like Swansea (that was poor in pressing our midfield and are made up by avrage footallers) then we have no chance what so ever against these kind of teams, or City for that matter.

We need to have a certain correlation between what players we want on the pitch and what we expect from the team. Not one player on the pitch today would start a game for one of the great European clubs.
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Ok but I don't think I ever said this was a team or a midfield partnership to take on the best the world has to offer. All I'm saying is that in the context of this game that the problems were more around those two, than them, themselves and for me, with some better tactical thinking we would have been in a better position to do something in the second half.

We've got loads to do if we want to compete with those teams but simple sticking a better midfielder in there isn't enough. There are big problems in how we operate as a unit and how we respond to the opposition tactics. I think even some of the best players would stuggle if they were outnumbered 2 to 1 for most the time, particularly when it's coming at a period when everyone is going to be tired.
 
I know, it was a bit of a big leap forward in the dialog from me.

But, I think it's more due to the quality of our players. We need better players to really make our current tactic work, I think we play a good tactic, but we do not have the players to make it work.
I also feel we can't change that tactic, we have to change the some players and hope others come back from injurie or start playing at a higher Level (Rooney, RVP and Nani is important I feel).
 
Giggsforever said:
I think it's more due to the quality of our players. We need better players to really make our current tactic work, I think we play a good tactic, but we do not have the players to make it work.
I also feel we can't change that tactic, we have to change the some players and hope others come back from injurie or start playing at a higher Level (Rooney, RVP and Nani is important I feel).
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I think it's a mix of both, quality is obviously a clear issue but I don't think the way we set up gets the most out of what is there, nor if things stay the same gets the most out of players who may come.

It wasn't an issue today but a lot of the time we have two midfielders, one of whom can seemingly go where they please and leave the other, usually Carrick, on his own. Stick in Toure, Busquets whoever for Carrick and they're gonna struggle because one player can't cover all that space.

When we play a two, we're often outnumbered in the middle because we play a wide system, now better players will deal with this better but sometimes you need a hand regardless of how good you are. I think we are and have been even under Fergie slow to react to this which is a reason we struggle when being pressed.

I don't think there's anything wrong with using wingers who stay wide etc but we're certainly not doing it the best we could and that for me is both a quality and a tactical issue.
 
He was far to slow on the ball, it really hurt our play. Cleverly was not any better, he got stuck in some more, but was worse in possession.
 
Giggsforever said:
He was far to slow on the ball, it really hurt our play. Cleverly was not any better, he got stuck in some more, but was worse in possession.
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I obviously watched a different game to you!

He's one of the few midfielders in our squad who's capable of threading a ball through the centre of the pitch and finding one of our attacking players in a pocket of space between the opposition's defence and midfield. Too much of our play usually consists of getting the ball wide, where we pump a useless ball into the box from.

We should be doing everything we can to get Fletcher fully sharp, because he's still clearly a class above some of the other shite in our squad.
 
Feed Me said:
I obviously watched a different game to you!

He's one of the few midfielders in our squad who's capable of threading a ball through the centre of the pitch and finding one of our attacking players in a pocket of space between the opposition's defence and midfield. Too much of our play usually consists of getting the ball wide, where we pump a useless ball into the box from.

We should be doing everything we can to get Fletcher fully sharp, because he's still clearly a class above some of the other shite in our squad.
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i agree with my dear friend Feed Me

i haven't seen a United midfielder making a penetrating pass for a decade it seems. We only pass it backwards or sideways. Fletcher made today some good passes, kept the ball on the ground and forced the move of other players. Was so refreshing to watch.
 
At the end of the day you know that he will give everything he can possibly give, every time he pulls on the jersey. You can never fault him for effort and commitment to the cause, and that has always counted for something in my book.

One of the only real positives to come out of the game tonight, and hopefully he can build on it. Great to see him back out on the pitch first and foremost, but he was a class above certain individuals tonight. He'll be as gutted as anyone in that dressing room.
 
You know you are in trouble when a Darren (not really full fit with lack of match fitness) Fletcher comes up with the best midfield performance of the season.
 
Thought his intent when passing the ball was the best we have seen this season, even had more purpose than Carrick's performances this season. If we can get both of them fit and playing together, it won't solve anything but it could steady the ship.
 
He played with confidence which is what a lot of players are lacking right now. Others would much rather go for the easy option (floating the ball out to the wing) rather than trying to play the ball to feet.
 
He can do as much training as he wants the thing is his stamina reserves are gone for good. We know the pre op fletcher would never get done like that. But hats off to Fletch he has a heart the size if a lion and puts the performances of our other midfielders into perspective especially Tom Cleverley who continues to offer nothing at either end of the pitch.
 
Good performance from him, calm on the ball and making some good passes. Probably our best midfielder out there which says more about our team than him, beacuse as good as he was he wasn't great either. You can still tell he isn't fully sharp or 100% match fit.
 
Bright spot from the game. He was excellent. I said in the matchday thread that his passing and positioning was like the Carrick of last season. His endurance and stamina will increase with more games. I thought he and Cleverley complimented each other really well.
 
There are 2 or 3 things he does well on the pitch, very well, but that's about it. He doesnt offer more and is limited in his play but then again,he was out for over a year. Still doing a better job than other midfielders which is shocking
 
He was very good in the first half, but very poor in the second. His legs were gone after about 50 minutes which is the most worrying thing. He'll get afforded plenty of time, but he's 30 in a few weeks and it's going to be very difficult for him to get back up to the fitness levels required.
 
Second half he faded a little which was understanding really, but first half I thought he was excellent.

He made so much time on the ball for himself, kept position steadily but was always progressive, and some of his passing especially the ball to Smalling inside the fullback was quality.
 
finneh said:
He was very good in the first half, but very poor in the second. His legs were gone after about 50 minutes which is the most worrying thing. He'll get afforded plenty of time, but he's 30 in a few weeks and it's going to be very difficult for him to get back up to the fitness levels required.
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Agreed. I'm not sure Fletch has got 90 minutes in him any more.
 
Bit harsh to judge considering he's not played top flight football regularly for eons. Let him finish the season first before we say that.
 
Very good today I thought, the performance, as well as the fans booming there's only one darren fletcher after his back heel has to be one of my favourite moments of the season.

He still has all the attributes that made him great in 09 and an added touch of class for me, sometimes time away just watching the game can make you a better player.
 
Captain, leader, legend.
 
We look so much better with him and Carrick, so much better.
 
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