Dan "The Gardener" Ashworth Has Left | Venit, vidit, non vicit

[Longshanks]

If this is true, it's short term pain for long term gain. I'm not a fan of Amorim as of now and the performance pains me in the core, but if there is a decision made in this regard, I'm fine with it. We were never going to catch up with the "real" top clubs playing Ten Hag ball or Ole ball. We might as well get hit for a season or two, and then come back better.

Zero guarantee that will happen though.

Berrarda and co believe that Amorin is the next big thing in football coaching/management. But the previous regime thought the same about ETH. Chelsea thought the same about AVB and maybe even Potter.

Just because we want it to happen doesn't mean it will happen. Current evidence suggest it's to big a job, to big an ask for Amorin right now, and giving him time and money might just put us in a bigger mess.

Ashworth was probably right, but equally I can understand the theory of not letting the bring young thing go elsewhere. But I'm not sure the timing was right to bring in a very young, very inexperienced rigid tactical manager who basically only knows the Portuguese league as manager and player.

Going from that to managing the monster that is a struggling Manchester United in the EPL which is very very different to the Portuguese league is a huge leap.

I suppose we shall see, part of being a good leader is owning mistakes. There is no good leader that hasn't made mistakes, but to be a really good leader you have to admit your mistakes and rectify them. The Ineos leadership team is now in that boat, it currently looks like a mistake to appoint Amorin if it still looks like a mistake come end of season than they have a huge decision to make.

 

[bringbackbebe]

Zero guarantee that will happen though.

Berrarda and co believe that Amorin is the next big thing in football coaching/management. But the previous regime thought the same about ETH. Chelsea thought the same about AVB and maybe even Potter.

Just because we want it to happen doesn't mean it will happen. Current evidence suggest it's to big a job, to big an ask for Amorin right now, and giving him time and money might just put us in a bigger mess.

Ashworth was probably right, but equally I can understand the theory of not letting the bring young thing go elsewhere. But I'm not sure the timing was right to bring in a very young, very inexperienced rigid tactical manager who basically only knows the Portuguese league as manager and player.

Going from that to managing the monster that is a struggling Manchester United in the EPL which is very very different to the Portuguese league is a huge leap.

I suppose we shall see, part of being a good leader is owning mistakes. There is no good leader that hasn't made mistakes, but to be a really good leader you have to admit your mistakes and rectify them. The Ineos leadership team is now in that boat, it currently looks like a mistake to appoint Amorin if it still looks like a mistake come end of season than they have a huge decision to make.

I don't disagree with you. We're using an inexperienced coach to integrate young players after getting rid or isolating most first team players. It looks like a recipe for disaster. However, it could also make a great story 2 years down the line. If the new management has made a conscious decision understanding the risks involved, it's worth a try since we've failed in all other iterations. Let's see how this ends. Personally, I'm not confident but I back them.

 

[tomaldinho1]

I don't disagree with you. We're using an inexperienced coach to integrate young players after getting rid or isolating most first team players. It looks like a recipe for disaster. However, it could also make a great story 2 years down the line. If the new management has made a conscious decision understanding the risks involved, it's worth a try since we've failed in all other iterations. Let's see how this ends. Personally, I'm not confident but I back them.

I guess the obvious question, which I don't know the answer to, is did Amorim develop a lot of younger players at Sporting? If he did, there should be a bit more confidence in him doing it again, all we really need this season is to start playing a bit better, get a little bit of positivity back and hopefully see something that hints at an upward trajectory.

 

[davidmichael]

They have only had a year and the people they brought in haven’t even had that long, Ashworth included obviously. The whole best in class phrase is nonsense.

Berrada is the CEO, Ashworth reported into him. I know this narrative has developed that Berrada made some kind of unilateral decision on Amorim but it will have likely involved the Board, Wilcox and Ashworth.

Again it’s just an opinion he had his power taken away, it’s not 100% fact, no one knows for certain what really happened and why he left.

Ineos have had 13 months at United but had full access to the accounts a year or so before coming in so no one can say they came in and had to start doing all the years of mismanagement upon arrival, they had the best part of a year to work out a plan upon arrival if successful with their bid.

It’s pretty much known that Berrada was intent on Amorim due to City being interested in him if Pep left and bringing in Viana to take over from Txixi would have been an easy transition, it was Berrada on the plane within hours of ETH being sacked and it was Berrada who told Amorim it was now or never even though Amorim didn’t want to leave Sporting mid season as they were undefeated in Europe and flying in their league.

Every single report that came out was that Ashworth didn’t want Amorim yet Berrada did, I’ve not seen a single report from anyone that says Ashworth was happy for Amorim to come in and everything we saw said the opposite even when Ashworth was still at United.

Whether Ashworth reported to Berrada is irrelevant as Ashworth was in charge of the footballing department NOT Berrada and Berrada pushing for or making those kind of decisions is no different to Woodward or Arnold no matter what way it’s spun, if you put a footballing strycture in place then it’s that strycture that makes the footballing decisions and the CEO is the one who signs off on them.

I think it’s forgotten that this is Berrada’s first time as a CEO so has no experience in this role and seeing as United have long allowed their CEO’s to run the footballing department as seen in Woodward and Arnold the higher ups have just allowed it again, even if we didn’t bring in Ashworth to run the footballing department I’d still think the same as we should have learnt from the mistakes of the past with non footballing people making footballing decisions and it fecking us every time.

 

[Sunny Jim]

Bulshit story to discredit Ashworth.

 

[#07]

Bulshit story to discredit Ashworth.

100%. People have clearly seen the online chatter about Ashworth being right that Amorim wasn't the right fit for this squad and decided to discredit him.

Honestly, the rumours that Ashworth wanted Southgate never sat well with me, but a broken clock is right two times a day. Doesn't matter how much else he was wrong about. Results are proving that he was right about our squad and Amorim being a bad fit.

Also, if Dan Ashworth wasn't 'a Monchi' and wasn't what we needed: why did INEOS spend millions in compensation and spend months waiting for him? Where was the due diligence? If what they needed was a transfer guru, a wheeler dealer, then how is it that they didn't do enough background research to know that wasn't Ashworth before paying to get him out of Newcastle?

People in glass houses and all that. If they'd have just said nothing they'd have been better off. Now we're left asking: Well if there's all this stuff that he couldn't do, why did you even hire him in the first place? A question you can also ask about Amorim. You knew he was this type of coach, you knew the players you had, you knew the FFP issues, why did you hire him?

Unless in both cases they didn't actually do their research and just went for a fashionable name.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

100%. People have clearly seen the online chatter about Ashworth being right that Amorim wasn't the right fit for this squad and decided to discredit him.

Honestly, the rumours that Ashworth wanted Southgate never sat well with me, but a broken clock is right two times a day. Doesn't matter how much else he was wrong about. Results are proving that he was right about our squad and Amorim being a bad fit.

Also, if Dan Ashworth wasn't 'a Monchi' and wasn't what we needed: why did INEOS spend millions in compensation and spend months waiting for him? Where was the due diligence? If what they needed was a transfer guru, a wheeler dealer, then how is it that they didn't do enough background research to know that wasn't Ashworth before paying to get him out of Newcastle?

People in glass houses and all that. If they'd have just said nothing they'd have been better off. Now we're left asking: Well if there's all this stuff that he couldn't do, why did you even hire him in the first place? A question you can also ask about Amorim. You knew he was this type of coach, you knew the players you had, you knew the FFP issues, why did you hire him?

Unless in both cases they didn't actually do their research and just went for a fashionable name.

I always thought that refusing to seek out any other DOF's once Newcastle wouldn't release him was a stupid decision. It's not like he's God's gift to football operations and transfers, there was no reason for us to spend any extra money to get him. And looking back now it just reeks of a relationship thing because Brailsford was pals with him and he had a good reputation.

Such a clusterfeck all around

 

[horsechoker]

I think Ashworth was simply a Brexit choice from Jim. He knew Ashworth was a big British deal and wanted someone in there who was British.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Kind of concerning that many fans who don't even work in football could've told you that Ashworth isn't a transfer guru / wheeler dealer type but a structure builder, and yet INEOS couldn't do their basic diligence to figure that out before spending a ton of money hiring him, waiting for him, and sacking him.

 

[davidmichael]

100%. People have clearly seen the online chatter about Ashworth being right that Amorim wasn't the right fit for this squad and decided to discredit him.

Honestly, the rumours that Ashworth wanted Southgate never sat well with me, but a broken clock is right two times a day. Doesn't matter how much else he was wrong about. Results are proving that he was right about our squad and Amorim being a bad fit.

Also, if Dan Ashworth wasn't 'a Monchi' and wasn't what we needed: why did INEOS spend millions in compensation and spend months waiting for him? Where was the due diligence? If what they needed was a transfer guru, a wheeler dealer, then how is it that they didn't do enough background research to know that wasn't Ashworth before paying to get him out of Newcastle?

People in glass houses and all that. If they'd have just said nothing they'd have been better off. Now we're left asking: Well if there's all this stuff that he couldn't do, why did you even hire him in the first place? A question you can also ask about Amorim. You knew he was this type of coach, you knew the players you had, you knew the FFP issues, why did you hire him?

Unless in both cases they didn't actually do their research and just went for a fashionable name.

Agree in full mate, I’ve long said that Ashworth might not have been the answer BUT Ineos very publicly went in for him to the point Newcastle put him on gardening leave then we paid £4 million to bring him in and publicly proclaimed him as best in class and that he was head of the entire footballing department then ignored Ashworth in his decision making and allowed Brailsford and Berrada who are non footballing people to make footballing decisions.

With the shambles we are it was probably 50/50 that Ashworth would have been a success but what Ineos should have done before going in for Ashworth is do due diligence on Ashworth’s strengths and weaknesses to see if he was a fit for what was needed, instead it’s clear Ineos wanted someone to just sit in the role and form a non existent footballing strycture and they along with Berrada would make the decisions.

Now to try and deflect from their own shortcomings and horrendous decision making Ineos have been briefing the press ever since Ashworth left that he’s basically to blame for everything and that they’re trying to fix his mistakes, reality is that Ashworth should have been allowed to implement the things he wanted and if in 2-3 years it didn’t work or wasn’t on schedule then you question things and look at replacements.

I find it crazy that people still try pushing the Ashworth wanted Southgate narrative to make him look incompetent when all the credible reports were Brailsford wanted Southgate whilst Ashworth wanted Thomas Frank or Eddie Howe, he was against bringing Amorim in simply due to a poor tactical fit and wanted us to walk before run but as always our directors or CEO’s make the footballing decisions then wonder why we’re in the state we’re in.