Daily Mail

[utdalltheway]

Exactly.

Brits have an obsession with owning their own home. But it's not a fundamental right.

it's the American Way!
they invented owning your own home.

 

[horselesspaul]

Do we not just have to put up with mild recessions now and then? Is it not almost a fact of economic life?

No no. Sack Brown. Sell Giggs.

 

[spinoza]

Do we not just have to put up with mild recessions now and then? Is it not almost a fact of economic life?

Not just mild recessions, severe ones.

The last 15-20 years of mild-ish recessions, strong expansions and low unemployment are the anomalies.

 

[spinoza]

it's the American Way!
they invented owning your own home.

By which they meant "stealing it from the nasty red people already there"

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

By which they meant "stealing it from the nasty red people already there"

nasty is a little harsh isn't it?

how were the Andes, spinoza?

 

[spinoza]

nasty is a little harsh isn't it?

how were the Andes, spinoza?

Absolutely brilliant thanks. One of the great experiences I've had so far. I got to the Sun Gate at Machu Picchu around 4 in the afternoon, so the setting sun illuminated the entire city.

Just before arriving there, I got a slew of text messages along the lines of "17-3!" "Campeones ole ole ole" "Edwin you beauty" which made it even better....

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Absolutely brilliant thanks. One of the great experiences I've had so far. I got to the Sun Gate at Machu Picchu around 4 in the afternoon, so the setting sun illuminated the entire city.

Just before arriving there, I got a slew of text messages along the lines of "17-3!" "Campeones ole ole ole" "Edwin you beauty" which made it even better....

they don't have a jealousy smilie otherwise I'd be posting one right this instant.

good to see you made it back alive. will you be posting any photos?

 

[Wibble]

Mobile phone coverage at Machu Pichu?

Kinell. How times change.

When I walked the Inca trail you travelled in groups and carried machettes to avoid getting robbed or worse.

 

[spinoza]

they don't have a jealousy smilie otherwise I'd be posting one right this instant.

good to see you made it back alive. will you be posting any photos?

Probably - only got back last night, so might take a few days.

Mobile phone coverage at Machu Pichu?

Kinell. How times change.

When I walked the Inca trail you travelled in groups and carried machettes to avoid getting robbed or worse.

Now you get loads of porters, each restricted to a load of 20 kg only. No llamas or mules either, to ensure jobs for the local people.

I had a mobile signal most of the way - died a bit when I went round the mountain just before Machu Picchu, but got it back near the Sun Gate. There's a town of sorts on the river below the ruins now, with a train station, 5 star hotels, pizzerias, the works.

 

[spinoza]

28. Gordon Brown has 'reformed' the pension system to such a degree that a £60 billion blackhole has opened up.

That's not Brown's fault, for reasons I've gone into several times on here.

29. The Government tried to quell fears for the economy and quality of life when the EU expanded Eastward by claiming only 14,000 would enter the country due to enlargement, the Goverment claim to have no idea how many have entered but most qualified estimates put the number on the wrong side of 1 million.

The impact has largely been positive.

30. The Government cannot get over congratulating themselves regarding the size of the labour force in this country and the low unemployment rate, they are not publicising this has been achieved through uncontrolled immigration and for giving ridiculous generous benefits to 5 million people and thus taking them off the unemployment list.

Sorry? If uncontrolled immigration were a problem for unemployment the rate should rise.

33. The proportion of GDP in the hands of the this Goverment has grown from 37% in 1997 to 44% in 2005.

So? You say it as if it were a bad thing.

34. In the longest sustained growth in the British economy in living memory the Government managed to run up national debt to their highest levels since the Second World War, thus meaning that at a time when the future for our economy is less than certain, when inflation is rampant, and when personal debt is the highest in the world the Govermnent are in no position to elleviate the situation.

National debt measured as a percentage of GDP is pretty low (although I acknowledge that it has been rising). What matters is debt relative to service cost.

The government can't alleviate high levels of personal debt. It's time people took some responsibility for their actions.

 

[Team Brian GB]

28. Gordon Brown has 'reformed' the pension system to such a degree that a £60 billion blackhole has opened up.

That's not Brown's fault, for reasons I've gone into several times on here.

I'll admit I'm not significantly informed on the matter but it occurred, and the percieved 'Iron Chancellor' in the midst of a booming economy was able to do very little to prevent our pension system from falling into decay.

29. The Government tried to quell fears for the economy and quality of life when the EU expanded Eastward by claiming only 14,000 would enter the country due to enlargement, the Goverment claim to have no idea how many have entered but most qualified estimates put the number on the wrong side of 1 million.

The impact has largely been positive.

There are two large problems here, the first being that the government have not got a clue about forecasting ahead and that they either didn't know what they were getting into or they lied about what they were getting into. The Second point is the strain on our resources by the biggest migration wave we have ever seen. We simply do not have the housing stock or excess space in our education and health systems to cope with such an influx, which is something Central Government has been very reluctant to act upon leaving it to local authorities.

30. The Government cannot get over congratulating themselves regarding the size of the labour force in this country and the low unemployment rate, they are not publicising this has been achieved through uncontrolled immigration and for giving ridiculous generous benefits to 5 million people and thus taking them off the unemployment list.

Sorry? If uncontrolled immigration were a problem for unemployment the rate should rise.

With regard to point 30, I was talking about a combination of both low unemployment- managed by a huge number of 'incapacitated' people, and then a large labour force- attained through uncontrolled immigration.

33. The proportion of GDP in the hands of the this Goverment has grown from 37% in 1997 to 44% in 2005.

So? You say it as if it were a bad thing.

I suppose that depends on whether you are socialist or not, but it does constitute a real terms tax rise of 20%, and by a government who spends money very inefficiently with whom the public are at odds with over what it is spent on.

34. In the longest sustained growth in the British economy in living memory the Government managed to run up national debt to their highest levels since the Second World War, thus meaning that at a time when the future for our economy is less than certain, when inflation is rampant, and when personal debt is the highest in the world the Govermnent are in no position to elleviate the situation.

National debt measured as a percentage of GDP is pretty low (although I acknowledge that it has been rising). What matters is debt relative to service cost.

That is very true, whilst our national debt is hovering around 44% many other nations in the Western World owe far beyond that- in Italy I believe the figure is around 110%. Though that does not negate the fact that the goverment have handled spending irresponsibly running up a huge deficit at a time when it would be rise to save it for a rainy day, debt repayment cost us £8bn a year when Labour entered office and it is now over £30bn a year.

The government can't alleviate high levels of personal debt. It's time people took some responsibility for their actions.

That I do agree with, though the Government must take it into account when calculating the cost of living, tax rises and inflation adjustments- not to mention their own spending- which is something they are obviously not doing or have ever done since 1997, though I will concede this is more dangerous than national debt.

 

[spinoza]

I'll admit I'm not significantly informed on the matter but it occurred, and the percieved 'Iron Chancellor' in the midst of a booming economy was able to do very little to prevent our pension system from falling into decay.

That's because pension provision is largely privatised. The current regime encouraged quite a lot of unwise investment strategies which didn't work, and were then blamed on Brown by trustees wishing to keep their jobs.

There are two large problems here, the first being that the government have not got a clue about forecasting ahead and that they either didn't know what they were getting into or they lied about what they were getting into. The Second point is the strain on our resources by the biggest migration wave we have ever seen. We simply do not have the housing stock or excess space in our education and health systems to cope with such an influx, which is something Central Government has been very reluctant to act upon leaving it to local authorities.

The lack of capacity argument is something of a red herring. Of course there will be a strain on current arrangements, but the health and education system is capable of coping if they were run better. You can blame the central government but local authorities and vested interests also share the blame.

On the flip side no one mentions lower costs, a more flexible labour market, people coming in with the right skills, regeneration of smaller towns, etc etc.

With regard to point 30, I was talking about a combination of both low unemployment- managed by a huge number of 'incapacitated' people, and then a large labour force- attained through uncontrolled immigration.

OK, but I still have a problem with your use of "uncontrolled immigration". Immigration into the UK has never been uncontrolled. It's very controlled, as I know from personal experience, and it's much harder to convince someone to employ you than it is to convince a government to let you in.

I suppose that depends on whether you are socialist or not, but it does constitute a real terms tax rise of 20%, and by a government who spends money very inefficiently with whom the public are at odds with over what it is spent on.

37% to 44% is not a big change. In addition if you look at levels instead of percentages, you'll find that the tax impact has fallen largely on company profits instead of wages. The reduction in percentage terms of wages in income GDP is due to expansion of company profits more than anything else. Same sort of story when you look at the expenditure side, only in this case you find that consumer spending is by far the largest component, because people in general, being the efficient spenders that they are, have geared up massively.

That is very true, whilst our national debt is hovering around 44% many other nations in the Western World owe far beyond that- in Italy I believe the figure is around 110%. Though that does not negate the fact that the goverment have handled spending irresponsibly running up a huge deficit at a time when it would be rise to save it for a rainy day, debt repayment cost us £8bn a year when Labour entered office and it is now over £30bn a year.

Are you sure those figures are inflation adjusted? They look wrong to me.

That I do agree with, though the Government must take it into account when calculating the cost of living, tax rises and inflation adjustments- not to mention their own spending- which is something they are obviously not doing or have ever done since 1997, though I will concede this is more dangerous than national debt.

Well, yes, but the tax rises, cost of living and inflation adjustments made by the government are hardly crippling. They are uncomfortable certainly, but what do people expect?

 

[topper]

Lets evaluate what Labour has done wrong, off the top of my head (I have spent well over an hour on this list and I'll extend it at some future point):
---


1. Gordon Brown 'campaigned' for Downing Street promising to work on Libertarian principles and then denies either a free vote or a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty.

2. Labour have legalised 28 days without charge- by far the longest in the Western World.

3. Labour attempted to legalise 90 days without charge.

4. Labour now want 42 days without charge.

5. Labour introduced ASBOs- punishment without trial.

6. ISPs now have to hold onto a directory on all internet traffic in this country for two years, on behalf of the security services.

7. The Government have legalised arbitrary stop-and-search.

8. The Goverment have demolished both Habeas Corpus and Double Jeapardy.

9. Instead of making prisoners suffer the government releases prisoners when capacity is reached.

10. Freedom of speech has been and continues to be eroded in the name of security and political correctness.

11. The Goverment claim to defend this nation from international terrorism is a main priority, despite border controls clearly not working as the goverment doesn't know how many people have entered the country in the last ten years and who they are.

12. The government with an awful reputation for keeping data safely and securely wish to collect all personal data on every citizen and ignores public opinion.

13. The Government wanted to introduce charging-per-mile for road users and got beaten back, though they continue to lambast drivers for not using public transport, even when in the cities it is inadequate and outside of them it is non-existant.

14. The number of cars on our roads has grown by almost 50% in 15 years but the goverment who collect £70billion annually from fuel duty have no where near increased the capacity of our road infrastructure.

15. They want us to use more trains, even though extremely little has been invested in the system by Labour, the High Speed line from St Pancras to the Channel is incidentally the first new railway line in this country in over 100 years.

16. The Government maintains a social welfare bill of now nearing £200billion (which does not include the NHS).

17. Education spending has doubled but so has the number of exams taken by students, after such an increase in spending 1 in 5 start secondary school unable to fully read and write, 50,000 students exit the system with less than 5 GCSEs and we have the biggest dropout rate at the age of 16 in the Western World after such record spending- and to add insult to injury we are plummeting down the World rankings for quality of education.

18. Even with a significant rise in education spending, the numbers of pupils enrolled in private education has boomed to unprecedented levels, with the sector now catering to 9% of all students.

19. Discipline in schools due to Government legislation has almost dissapeared due to political correctness, schools are now punished if they expell children and other schools have to accept those that have been expelled- leading to a huge rise in juvenile deliquency. Parents are no longer afforded the right to discipline their child in any meaningful manner which also contributes to this.

20. Labour signed what is effectively a one-way far-reaching extradition treaty with the United States.

21. David Blunkett decided not to employ proper police officers so got cheaper community officers instead.

22. The Government has dithered and continues to over the future of A-Levels and further education.

23. Tony Blair stated that he would be anti-war in office, though he has deployed soliders to Kosovo, Bosnia, Sierra Leone, Afghanistan, Iraq- whilst this government has consistently made the armed forces smaller, and smaller, and smaller.

24. The Government have allowed local councils to collect refuse just once a fortnight in the name of environmentalism despite council tax rising 100% since Labour took office, when most other Western Nations who pay much less than us in local taxes get multiple pick-ups each week if not daily.

25. The Government has dithered over the idea of nuclear power and as a direct result of little action we face the possibility of demand for energy exceeding supply within a decade.

26. The Goverment has committed very little money to coastal and flood defences, leading to the scenes in my resident county of Gloucestershire last summer- the River Severn floods three times a year because the flood defences in Gloucester do not exist even though it is a blackspot. Not to mention the regeneration effort, there are roads that have literally just reopened and hundreds are still in temporary accomodation.

27. The Government pontificate about responsibility over child obesity whilst they ignore that streets are not safe enough for children to play in, PE in schools have been relegated to second class status and the fact that thousands of acres of playing fields have been sold off to property developers.

28. Gordon Brown has 'reformed' the pension system to such a degree that a £60 billion blackhole has opened up.

29. The Government tried to quell fears for the economy and quality of life when the EU expanded Eastward by claiming only 14,000 would enter the country due to enlargement, the Goverment claim to have no idea how many have entered but most qualified estimates put the number on the wrong side of 1 million.

30. The Government cannot get over congratulating themselves regarding the size of the labour force in this country and the low unemployment rate, they are not publicising this has been achieved through uncontrolled immigration and for giving ridiculous generous benefits to 5 million people and thus taking them off the unemployment list.

31. Despite a huge injection of money into the health service, most still cannot find an NHS dentist.

32. Due to Labour's utopian (or perhaps dystopian) beliefs, British history and British culture have been relegated to second-class status in the name of multiculturalism and the fact that we must never 'offend' other peoples.

33. The proportion of GDP in the hands of the this Goverment has grown from 37% in 1997 to 44% in 2005.

34. In the longest sustained growth in the British economy in living memory the Government managed to run up national debt to their highest levels since the Second World War, thus meaning that at a time when the future for our economy is less than certain, when inflation is rampant, and when personal debt is the highest in the world the Govermnent are in no position to elleviate the situation.

35. For personal political gains, Labour developed the concept of devolution- this has made English residents less equal than others, they believe the same treatment to England will threaten the integrity of the Union even though it already is- Scottish MPs in London are why the Government was able to pass on a £3000 bill for university students in England per year.

and you could probably add lots more to a Government that promised to be whiter than white

in spite of all that there are the intelligentsia ???? here that think things are fine ffs

 

[Team Brian GB]

How Gordon Brown thinks he can ride this out for two years and then win a general election God only knows, his re-elect (elect) polling number currently sits around 25% which is a 70 year low. As of this very moment the capital is being crippled by a haulage strike, the government have a bill coming up to increase detention without charge to 42 days, they have the Lisbon Treaty to go fully through and inevitably the energy companies will push charges sky high come September.

Things can only get better they said, that is the ultimate lie as far as Labour are concerned. It will be an interesting summer and conference season, and the way it is going Brown this time next year will be writing his memoirs.

 

[topper]

How Gordon Brown thinks he can ride this out for two years and then win a general election God only knows, his re-elect (elect) polling number currently sits around 25% which is a 70 year low. As of this very moment the capital is being crippled by a haulage strike, the government have a bill coming up to increase detention without charge to 42 days, they have the Lisbon Treaty to go fully through and inevitably the energy companies will push charges sky high come September.

Things can only get better they said, that is the ultimate lie as far as Labour are concerned. It will be an interesting summer and conference season, and the way it is going Brown this time next year will be writing his memoirs.

overdue

but I repeat again that if Brown and a Conservative government were in power now and did all that this lot has done - there would be street riots and the caff intelligentsia would be spitting blood. No bias here of course

 

[Redlambs]

It's not all about the economy.

Crime, NHS, schooling and Immigration are four major areas where the mood of the public has changed drastically, and it's not all about the papers.

 

[p_ps_sock]

I was going to argue Brian's points but Spinoza does it far better than I ever could.

 

[Richter]

Isn't Vannistelrater a big Daily Mail fan?

 

[MikeUpNorth]

They read the Daily Mail
It is the Holy Grail
cnuts.

 

[topper]

I was going to argue Brian's points but Spinoza does it far better than I ever could.

so you think Blair/Brown and Co are doing well FFS

 

[topper]

They read the Daily Mail
It is the Holy Grail
cnuts.

Thats a bit harsh on you - easy fella

 

[nickm]

I'm against that in principle. Poorer people should have access to credit too, and a government mandated ceiling is not flexible enough to ensure that a significant segment of people are not shut out of the credit market.

Eh? Up until a couple of ago, you always had to have a 5% deposit anyway. The 100% mortgage is over, whether it's fair to poor people or not.

Besides, arguably the system is working - anyone who borrowed without sufficient equity is going to default, the banks make losses, the borrower loses the house, and house prices fall.

You call that 'working'?! A bust following a huge bubble isn't a system 'working', it's a dysfunction. And on a human level, losing your house and going bust are two of the most devestating things that can happen to someone.

 

[iguanamanc]

its not about sharing views its about looking at things long term and putting things into a historical context. the crap that is being spouted at the minute is simply media hacks (and I include the broadsheets in that) wanting change for the sake of it, basically because the don't like the look of the sour faced scot in no. 10. The prats and expenses comments are shortsighted and pathetic. I don't agree with everything labour has done or continue to do but the alternative is too grim to think about.

Heading for another recession? By what measure? The economy is still exceeding projected growth rates and the only problem is the housing market, a problem caused not by the government but by banks in the US.

Hells bells. Being sarcastic and taking the piss out of politicians on an internet forum is being shortsighted and pathetic. Whatever next.

Most of us are not bothered about growth rates - it's about what affects our families and their standard of living. At worst some of us are heading for redundancy, losing our homes or bankruptcy, or possibly all three. Where the hell do you live in the UK - are you not seeing the cost of fuel, heating, rates and food rising way above the rate of inflation? That is ignoring the cost of borrowing on mortgages, loans and credit etc. You have to be reasonably well off or a photosynthetic life-form not to be affected. The increase in expenditure will not be matched by pay rises and therefore most of us will notice a severe fall in our standard of living, which in my experience pre-empts a recession.

 

[iguanamanc]

Our local paper is gradually turning into the Daily Mail.

There was an article in there this week inferring that the local council treat travellers as royalty, whilst treating locally housed residents as sub human, or something, and then demanding that it's "time to take action!". I tossed it in the bin

Action taken then.

 

[iguanamanc]

I enjoy the Daily Mail's football coverage

The Mail on Sunday's is excellent.

 

[iguanamanc]

before this government is was considered normal for a government to fall well behind in polls mid term, and the agenda/opinions of a large percenage of the population are set by the media, which is why the mails rhetorical is so damagin

This New Labour Government's fecked and it knows it. The polls and the by-election results last week are much worse than normal for a 3-4 term government. The 2.7 million pound cashback on taxes was a desperate measure and there is worse to come with Joe Public's rebellion on their all-embracing persecution of car owner/drivers.

Blair's final legacy is to screw Brown good and proper.

 

[Drifter]

If everyone read this newspaper they would never leave the house.

 

[Member 5225]

is there a bigger negative influence on our society than this pseudo intellectual rag?

taken from an article about grant being sacked



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...-exit-Abramovich-begins-search-successor.html

I find it unbelievable that people swallow that shit, but some will no doubt

I think they've summed up well IMHO
Probably not the most PC, but closer to the truth than other rose tinted papers

 

[p_ps_sock]

Hells bells. Being sarcastic and taking the piss out of politicians on an internet forum is being shortsighted and pathetic. Whatever next.

Most of us are not bothered about growth rates - it's about what affects our families and their standard of living. At worst some of us are heading for redundancy, losing our homes or bankruptcy, or possibly all three. Where the hell do you live in the UK - are you not seeing the cost of fuel, heating, rates and food rising way above the rate of inflation? That is ignoring the cost of borrowing on mortgages, loans and credit etc. You have to be reasonably well off or a photosynthetic life-form not to be affected. The increase in expenditure will not be matched by pay rises and therefore most of us will notice a severe fall in our standard of living, which in my experience pre-empts a recession.

if you over paid for your house that you can't handle a quarter percent increase in interest rates, then you deserve to lose your fecking house. I'm 27 years old and refused to get sucked into this property ladder shite, people are paying several times the material and labour costs of a building a house, thats just insane.

as for fuel costs etc check the price of oil and you may see why, it isn't unlimited and the price will just keep going up, cutting taxes on fuel is short term thinking that will only make the problem worse (maintain/increase consumption meaning oil runs out quicker, not to mention the environmental impact), if you can't manage the cost get a more fuel efficient car.

cost of borrowing? wtf, interest rates are 5%, that is not high

 

[p_ps_sock]

I think they've summed up well IMHO
Probably not the most PC, but closer to the truth than other rose tinted papers

in an article about football the writer talks about

'the prime minister's economic meltdown'

and the obsurd 'it may not be too extreme to suggest that we are approaching the collapse of our civilisation'

is summing it up well?



boris and david

 

[p_ps_sock]

The Mail on Sunday's is excellent.

I prefer Andrex

 

[p_ps_sock]

so you think Blair/Brown and Co are doing well FFS

I don't think they're doing badly

 

[iguanamanc]

if you over paid for your house that you can't handle a quarter percent increase in interest rates, then you deserve to lose your fecking house. I'm 27 years old and refused to get sucked into this property ladder shite, people are paying several times the material and labour costs of a building a house, thats just insane.

as for fuel costs etc check the price of oil and you may see why, it isn't unlimited and the price will just keep going up, cutting taxes on fuel is short term thinking that will only make the problem worse (maintain/increase consumption meaning oil runs out quicker, not to mention the environmental impact), if you can't manage the cost get a more fuel efficient car.

cost of borrowing? wtf, interest rates are 5%, that is not high

So feck everyone else Jack, I'm all right. Ever thought of becoming a labour politician?

And you're 27 and lecturing us on recessions (post 8). Christ you've never seen yet the damage that Labour can do, viz the 1960s and 70s. Jesus Christ.

 

[Mozza]

1. Gordon Brown 'campaigned' for Downing Street promising to work on Libertarian principles and then denies either a free vote or a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty.

How's that a feck up? Wheres the disaster in not getting that vote?

2. Labour have legalised 28 days without charge- by far the longest in the Western World.

3. Labour attempted to legalise 90 days without charge.

4. Labour now want 42 days without charge.

Not pleasant for those caught up in it and should not be around but a feck up? No. And you're reaching a bit buy listing it 3 times

5. Labour introduced ASBOs- punishment without trial.

Poor justice and a little shit, not a feck up however

6. ISPs now have to hold onto a directory on all internet traffic in this country for two years, on behalf of the security services.

I'm not sure why you think it's a bad thing

7. The Government have legalised arbitrary stop-and-search.

I'm sure there is more to it then that, for example the police are a little smarter then just using powers even given, there's supposedly going to be a push to use them given the current problem with knives

8. The Goverment have demolished both Habeas Corpus and Double Jeapardy.

9. Instead of making prisoners suffer the government releases prisoners when capacity is reached.

This is a feck up you've got two

10. Freedom of speech has been and continues to be eroded in the name of security and political correctness.

Bollocks on the political correctness

11. The Goverment claim to defend this nation from international terrorism is a main priority, despite border controls clearly not working as the goverment doesn't know how many people have entered the country in the last ten years and who they are.

Could do better but not their feck up. It's what they've inherited, until they set up a system which fails how can you blame them?

12. The government with an awful reputation for keeping data safely and securely wish to collect all personal data on every citizen and ignores public opinion.

Some random worker in the DW&P fecks up and that is the fault of the entire Government?

13. The Government wanted to introduce charging-per-mile for road users and got beaten back, though they continue to lambast drivers for not using public transport, even when in the cities it is inadequate and outside of them it is non-existant.

14. The number of cars on our roads has grown by almost 50% in 15 years but the goverment who collect £70billion annually from fuel duty have no where near increased the capacity of our road infrastructure.

15. They want us to use more trains, even though extremely little has been invested in the system by Labour, the High Speed line from St Pancras to the Channel is incidentally the first new railway line in this country in over 100 years.

Few related points here, where do you propose they stick new roads? Making them forever wider isn't a real option and then theres NIMBYs. Trains have huge subsidies and investment but not enough, I'd concede a feck up here though it's more a lack of vision, they did inherit a mess from the tories. Buses are pretty decent today.

Part one...

 

[Mozza]

Part two...

16. The Government maintains a social welfare bill of now nearing £200billion (which does not include the NHS).

And? Show me the waste in the system, just posting a number is meanigless

17. Education spending has doubled but so has the number of exams taken by students, after such an increase in spending 1 in 5 start secondary school unable to fully read and write, 50,000 students exit the system with less than 5 GCSEs and we have the biggest dropout rate at the age of 16 in the Western World after such record spending- and to add insult to injury we are plummeting down the World rankings for quality of education.

18. Even with a significant rise in education spending, the numbers of pupils enrolled in private education has boomed to unprecedented levels, with the sector now catering to 9% of all students.

I need to know whether the numbers have increased or decreased compared to previous level, again your putting down numbers without context which makes them meaningless. Don't see how 18 is a feck up

19. Discipline in schools due to Government legislation has almost dissapeared due to political correctness, schools are now punished if they expell children and other schools have to accept those that have been expelled- leading to a huge rise in juvenile deliquency. Parents are no longer afforded the right to discipline their child in any meaningful manner which also contributes to this.

Political correctness again, bollocks again. What do you suggest we do with children that have been expelled from one school, I'm sure even in days past they didn't expect them to never re enter education at some institution. Parents can smack their children in this country.

20. Labour signed what is effectively a one-way far-reaching extradition treaty with the United States.

Yes, feck up

21. David Blunkett decided not to employ proper police officers so got cheaper community officers instead.

There are more police besides the PCSO, they've also got there uses, last November there was one standing at the top of the hill directing traffic at a fireworks event, it's better then wasting a copper on the job.

22. The Government has dithered and continues to over the future of A-Levels and further education.

Yes, they should make there mind up

23. Tony Blair stated that he would be anti-war in office, though he has deployed soliders to Kosovo, Bosnia, Sierra Leone, Afghanistan, Iraq- whilst this government has consistently made the armed forces smaller, and smaller, and smaller.

Some of those actions were correct, Iraq was the one feck up

24. The Government have allowed local councils to collect refuse just once a fortnight in the name of environmentalism despite council tax rising 100% since Labour took office, when most other Western Nations who pay much less than us in local taxes get multiple pick-ups each week if not daily.

Local taxes are spent badly by local councils, how it that the governments feck up?

25. The Government has dithered over the idea of nuclear power and as a direct result of little action we face the possibility of demand for energy exceeding supply within a decade.

Your anticipating a feck up, wait and see

26. The Goverment has committed very little money to coastal and flood defences, leading to the scenes in my resident county of Gloucestershire last summer- the River Severn floods three times a year because the flood defences in Gloucester do not exist even though it is a blackspot. Not to mention the regeneration effort, there are roads that have literally just reopened and hundreds are still in temporary accomodation.

Dunno much about this

27. The Government pontificate about responsibility over child obesity whilst they ignore that streets are not safe enough for children to play in, PE in schools have been relegated to second class status and the fact that thousands of acres of playing fields have been sold off to property developers.

Streets are fine to play in, the danger is exaggerated.

28. Gordon Brown has 'reformed' the pension system to such a degree that a £60 billion blackhole has opened up.

He closed a tax break, he didn't go in and grab money out of pension funds

29. The Government tried to quell fears for the economy and quality of life when the EU expanded Eastward by claiming only 14,000 would enter the country due to enlargement, the Goverment claim to have no idea how many have entered but most qualified estimates put the number on the wrong side of 1 million.

They shouldn't have lied about the figures but the immigrants have had no negative impact, not a feck up

30. The Government cannot get over congratulating themselves regarding the size of the labour force in this country and the low unemployment rate, they are not publicising this has been achieved through uncontrolled immigration and for giving ridiculous generous benefits to 5 million people and thus taking them off the unemployment list.

Benefits are far from generous, who'd want to live on £60 quid a week?

31. Despite a huge injection of money into the health service, most still cannot find an NHS dentist.

Started under the Tories I believe, should do better but not their feck up

32. Due to Labour's utopian (or perhaps dystopian) beliefs, British history and British culture have been relegated to second-class status in the name of multiculturalism and the fact that we must never 'offend' other peoples.

Dunno about British history, I'm sure it's taught as it ever was in schools, as for culture, don't remember any lessons on that and that was under the tories.

33. The proportion of GDP in the hands of the this Goverment has grown from 37% in 1997 to 44% in 2005.

Given the state of public services the government inherited I don't have a problem with that since it's been spent quite heavily on schools and NHS

34. In the longest sustained growth in the British economy in living memory the Government managed to run up national debt to their highest levels since the Second World War, thus meaning that at a time when the future for our economy is less than certain, when inflation is rampant, and when personal debt is the highest in the world the Govermnent are in no position to elleviate the situation.

I'm yet to see the problem the borrowing has caused, things could go wrong in the same way it could with the Glazers, until it does it's not a feck up. How would they alleviate the situation by the way? Tax cuts would drive inflation given that people would spend cash in pocket. Personal debt is just that, how can it be the governments fault?

35. For personal political gains, Labour developed the concept of devolution- this has made English residents less equal than others, they believe the same treatment to England will threaten the integrity of the Union even though it already is- Scottish MPs in London are why the Government was able to pass on a £3000 bill for university students in England per year.

I'm indifferent about this, we English are the most powerful group within Westminster and most law in made there, I don't see the great problem in the Celts having power over a few affairs as well as in Parliament.

 

[iguanamanc]

Is it me or are there some selfish, naive and/or deluded feckers on here?

 

[Redlambs]

Is it me or are there some selfish, naive and/or deluded feckers on here?

Dunno about here, but the government is riddled with them.




That's why they are on their way out.

 

[Drifter]

Is it me or are there some selfish, naive and/or deluded feckers on here?

Yep.They're called Daily Mail readers.Like the tories will do any better.It's easier from the outside looking in.

 

[Member 5225]

in an article about football the writer talks about

'the prime minister's economic meltdown'

and the obsurd 'it may not be too extreme to suggest that we are approaching the collapse of our civilisation'

is summing it up well?



boris and david

it's a holistic view...the paper stands for issues, but it feels as if everything is linked rather than individual stories...

 

[iguanamanc]

Yep.They're called Daily Mail readers.Like the tories will do any better.It's easier from the outside looking in.

You're probably right - the problem is that New Labour and New Tory are becoming interchangeable. As for the Lib Dems and the other fringe parties - forget it.

I can't imagine voting Tory either next time. Gone are the days when you would be Tory, Labour or Liberal for life.

You now have to vote on the issues and manifestos, and even there you're fecked because they never keep their promises as Team Brian GB has pointed out. No wonder the electorate is apathetic.

I wouldn't be surprised if an ultra-party did well at the next election.