Current Squad vs 2004/05

[LawCharltonBest]

Having Ronaldo and Januzaj equal made it stupid. I love Januzaj, but Ronaldo even from his first match was always going to be the best player in the World.

The 04/05 team isn't much better on paper, but it had a young Ronaldo and a young Rooney both set for greatness and Sir Alex Ferguson at the helm.

We need another teen sensation or 2 here as well as Januzaj to give us more stability and assurance over the future talent of Manchester United. Back then I remeber being 100% certain that it was just transition and United would become the best team in the World. Now I'm not so sure. With no fresh signings going forward, it's too reliant on Januzaj.

 

[KingEric7]

Having Ronaldo and Januzaj equal made it stupid. I love Januzaj, but Ronaldo even from his first match was always going to be the best player in the World.

The 04/05 team isn't much better on paper, but it had a young Ronaldo and a young Rooney both set for greatness and Sir Alex Ferguson at the helm.




We need another teen sensation or 2 here as well as Januzaj to give us more stability and assurance over the future talent of Manchester United.

There were so many doubts about Ronaldo amidst the exciting parts. This Januzaj looks a surer bet to me than Ronaldo did before 2006 when you look at how much more developed he is in some ways already.

*Not that I think there's a good chance of him becoming as good or better. Ronaldo's development was freakish. It's just that back then it was a case of it not being clear, where as with Januzaj I think it'd actually be really surprising if he didn't become top class.

Much prefer the Rooney of old, even if he was so young at that time he was more exciting to watch and looked more of a special impact player. He gets rave reviews lately but he does so much to frustrate as well, sloppy passing, never shoots, always looking for others when he should be shooting or charging at goal. He looks good at times because our midfield is weak but There were several years I reckon he was better than the 28 year old Rooney we have now.

As per the OP, the squad is better now, has to be but then so is everyone else's in the main, more money. Doesn't matter if you have Ronaldo or Rooney or Van Nistelrooy, the other squad players like Smith, O'shea, Kleberson were dodgy and highlight the past strength of the lineup to now. Trouble is, we have Moyes now not SAF!!

That 2005/06 Rooney was actually amazing. I'd take him over the one we've got now without much thought. As good as the one we have now is, you'd never draw the comparison with Fat Ronaldo like people were doing back then. He doesn't have the same presence or threat in possession.

 

[Sonny1972]

Massive apologies if this has been done before, but the question came up in another thread of how our current squad, well known to be heavily lacking in several areas, compares to the famously bad 2004/05 squad.

So I've had a run through player vs player. I've tried to match up players as well as possible by position and the amount they play, though it's not always possible. That 2004 team was just full of dodgy midfielders and utility players. Obviously you could rig the result by who you pair up, so I've tried my best to pair as honestly as possible.

Anyway, I make it a 7-3 victory to Moyes' Boys. I've tried to explain the confused workings of my mind for each one... All opinions welcome!


Howard < David de Gea
No Brainer.

Carroll = Anders Lindegaard
Irrelevant, don't care.

G Neville = Rafael
Neville was the greater player over his career, but he's 30 at this point, whereas Rafael is 23, and I'd expect him to go on to become the better player.

P Neville < Phil Jones
People called Phil clearly rock, but they don't know their best position. But only one of them has three major religions devoted to him.

Heinze = Patrice Evra
Would love to give this to the better player, and better man, but the fact that his time is pretty much up, whereas cnut was about 25 at the time and looked set for greatness.

Silvestre < Chris Smalling
Full-back or centre-back? Who knows… but I reckon Smalling looks the better player.

Ferdinand > Nemanja Vidić
Rio was coming into his prime here, today's Vidic can't compete.

Brown = Jonny Evans
I'd say I hold Jonny in very similar regard to how I thought of Brown at this point.

Smith < Marouane Fellaini
Take a very succesful bruiser of a forward, and try and make him the new Roy Keane. What could possibly go wrong? I'll give Fellaini the benefit of the doubt - I'd still take him given the choice.

Kleberson < Anderson
There's a song to tell us the answer to this… and it's still true, just about.

Fletcher = Darren Fletcher
Young, unconcing Flecther vs legendary but unknown fitness Fletcher? Let's call it a draw.

Keane = Michael Carrick
A year or two earlier and it's no contest, but this was Keane right at the end of his time.
Carrick's no spring chicken, but we should get a couple more years out of him.

Giggs > Antonio Valencia
Another easy one.

Scholes > Tom Cleverley
Yawn.

Ronaldo = Adnan Januzaj
If anything, Adnan is showing more end product at an earlier age. But Ronaldo was turning 20 and starting to look the real deal.

Rooney = Wayne Rooney
A bit like the Fletch one this - Youthful phenomenon vs one-man-team. Maybe should go to the 2004 one, given the future and potential, but that would seem odd given how good he is now.

Saha = Danny Welbeck
Tempted to give this to Danny, but Saha was also quite a player and we had very high hopes for him at this point.

van Nistelrooy = Robin van Persie
Two ageing Dutch goalscoring legends… call it a draw.

Solskjaer = Javier Hernández
The little pea very nearly gets this on age… but he's nowhere near the legend Ole is, and it's far from certain he'll stay with us anyway.

Forlan < Shinji Kagawa
Different styles, but similar standing - fan's favourites, had a season or two without ever quite producing. But Diego's time was about up by this point, whereas Shinki will probably get a bit longer.

Djemba x2 < Nani
Total mis-match of positions, but they were kind of left over. No doubt who is better.

O'Shea = Ryan Giggs
Hardly like-for-like, but they probably contribute a similar amount as bit-part players.

Fortune = Ashley Young
Again, not the same role, but we just seemed to stock up on utility players instead of proper wingers in 2004. Young isn't a proper winger, mind, so I can't give it to him.

In 2004 Van Nistelrooy was 28 , if you call that aging !!!

 

[MrMarcello]

Biggest problem from 04/05 I recall, outside Mourinho and Chelsea's dominance, was the likes of Ruud and Saha being injured for much of the season, thus placing the burden on Rooney and Smith to carry the attack. Plus a young and raw, but improving and at times frustrating, Ronaldo on the flank with the ageless Giggs. The side had plenty of quality on display. The 04/05 back four for all its faults gave me far more confidence than the current back four, and that's with Silvestre in central defense!

 

[Claymore]

That 2005/06 Rooney was actually amazing. I'd take him over the one we've got now without much thought. As good as the one we have now is, you'd never draw the comparison with Fat Ronaldo like people were doing back then. He doesn't have the same presence or threat in possession.

Yeah you say it better than me. Totally agree. Some people will think I'm mad when he scored that rocket the other week or helped us wins some points with his Scholes Jr. type play from midfield but when his name is on in the lineup he doesn't have that threat that you'd expect him too. To be fair to him the meddling from SAF, Moyes, has not helped him.

Biggest problem from 04/05 I recall, outside Mourinho and Chelsea's dominance, was the likes of Ruud and Saha being injured for much of the season, thus placing the burden on Rooney and Smith to carry the attack. Plus a young and raw, but improving and at times frustrating, Ronaldo on the flank with the ageless Giggs. The side had plenty of quality on display. The 04/05 back four for all its faults gave me far more confidence than the current back four, and that's with Silvestre in central defense!

That game at Old Trafford where we had to fight and scramble just to beat Mourinho's Chelsea 1-0 was amazing. Alan Smith actually made Makele, Lampard and Essien his bitch that night which is probably what made me delusional about him taking over from Keane, maybe it was a bit of desperate too, with us needing someone vocal like that in the team. Regarding the new back 4 though, I'd take what we have not easily, they just need proper time together, well Smalling and Jokes do. Smalling is still being moved out to RB which ain't going to help.

 

[Cling Bak]

I feel the comparisons are flawed for many reasons, the first being that this should be done at the end of the season to see what this lot achieve or don't. Right now it's very easy to make judgements, in the same way that hindsight changes things that you might have said in 2005, like how long a player had left that you wouldn't have known at the time.

Still, a bit of fun, and here's my take on several comparisons:

Carroll = Anders Lindegaard
Irrelevant, don't care.

Carroll was terrible, never looked PL class. I'm not unhappy if Lindegaard is in goal, he's a good keeper.

G Neville = Rafael

Neville was the greater player over his career, but he's 30 at this point, whereas Rafael is 23, and I'd expect him to go on to become the better player.

Neville, easily. Club's best RB, England's best RB, was still doing it with his eyes shut at this point in his career.

Heinze = Patrice Evra

Would love to give this to the better player, and better man, but the fact that his time is pretty much up, whereas cnut was about 25 at the time and looked set for greatness.

Evra's still got it, but Heinze was our player of the season, the silly c***. Got to be the Argentine, sadly.

Ferdinand > Nemanja Vidić

Rio was coming into his prime here, today's Vidic can't compete.

Why is Rio up against Vidic? Not similar in defensive styles at all. Buttner is missed off so there is scope to shift this around given you haven't done the Rio vs. Rio comparison. Which is close, given 04/05 Rio was a mixed bag.

Smith < Marouane Fellaini

Take a very succesful bruiser of a forward, and try and make him the new Roy Keane. What could possibly go wrong? I'll give Fellaini the benefit of the doubt - I'd still take him given the choice.

Smith was a forward in 04/05, but I take your point. This comparison is not even remotely close though.

Keane = Michael Carrick

A year or two earlier and it's no contest, but this was Keane right at the end of his time.
Carrick's no spring chicken, but we should get a couple more years out of him.

Carrick.

Rooney = Wayne Rooney

A bit like the Fletch one this - Youthful phenomenon vs one-man-team. Maybe should go to the 2004 one, given the future and potential, but that would seem odd given how good he is now.

He's been our best player this season and is a much more reliable goalscorer over the course of a season and in big games. He's better now.

Forlan < Shinji Kagawa

Different styles, but similar standing - fan's favourites, had a season or two without ever quite producing. But Diego's time was about up by this point, whereas Shinki will probably get a bit longer.

Forlan left in August 2004, but ok.

Fortune = Ashley Young

Again, not the same role, but we just seemed to stock up on utility players instead of proper wingers in 2004. Young isn't a proper winger, mind, so I can't give it to him.

Regardless of opinion here, how is Young not a proper winger? Do you mean this in a stylistic sense? Surely out wide is his best position?

 

[Sir A1ex]

Good feedback, CB - it's lunch time, so I'll work my way through it!

I feel the comparisons are flawed for many reasons, the first being that this should be done at the end of the season to see what this lot achieve or don't. Right now it's very easy to make judgements, in the same way that hindsight changes things that you might have said in 2005, like how long a player had left that you wouldn't have known at the time.

I still think the biggest flaw is trying to define if it is the best players to play right now, or the best to have signed up for the medium and long term.

Carroll was terrible, never looked PL class. I'm not unhappy if Lindegaard is in goal, he's a good keeper.

Conceded - I just couldn't be arsed even thinking about it.

Neville, easily. Club's best RB, England's best RB, was still doing it with his eyes shut at this point in his career.

Comes back to the short v long term. Would you swap the current Rafael for a 30 year-old Neville?

Evra's still got it, but Heinze was our player of the season, the silly c***. Got to be the Argentine, sadly.

I guess, yes. I just really didn't want to.

Why is Rio up against Vidic? Not similar in defensive styles at all. Buttner is missed off so there is scope to shift this around given you haven't done the Rio vs. Rio comparison. Which is close, given 04/05 Rio was a mixed bag.

I guess I was going for the most experienced, highly rated CB. You could argue that is now Evans, but he seemed a better fit to go head to head with Brown, and who would today's Vidic then go up against? Rio of today didn't make it all simply because in my view he is, or shold be, our 5th choice CB.

Smith was a forward in 04/05, but I take your point. This comparison is not even remotely close though.

Good point, actually. Guess he'll have to go up against Kagawa, which isn't as clear cut as it really should be - we did have great hopes for Smith (as a forward) at this point.
That leaves Fellaini to take an easy win against Jim Pakistan... not sure who Nani takes on

Carrick.

Possibly - it certainly wasn't Keane in his prime, but I don't remember him having tailed off badly by this point. I struggle to remember exactly how well he was playing that season, but he played plenty of matches... and there's been enough matches this season during which I'd have killed for Roy Keane to be on the pitch. I'm sticking with the draw.

He's been our best player this season and is a much more reliable goalscorer over the course of a season and in big games. He's better now.

Not sure about much more reliable goalscorer - a bit more maybe, but he was already very good back then - 17 goals that season, which is more than he got in 10-11 or 12-13.
Again short v long term. Hottest young British property around, with years of glory stretching out, or annoying 28 year-old who speds half his time trying to engineer a way out?

Forlan left in August 2004, but ok.

Good point - blame whoever's list I copied the squad from in the Moyes thread! Smith goes up against Shinji instead... and I have to think Shinki is the better player, depsite the high esteam Smith was held in at the time.

Regardless of opinion here, how is Young not a proper winger? Do you mean this in a stylistic sense? Surely out wide is his best position?

No, I just mean he's not a proper footballer.
In reality this should be a win to Young. Or Nani, if he's free now.

 

[MrMarcello]

Fortune played much more at LB and CM than LW from 2003 forward.

 

[Cling Bak]

Comes back to the short v long term. Would you swap the current Rafael for a 30 year-old Neville?

Possibly - it certainly wasn't Keane in his prime, but I don't remember him having tailed off badly by this point. I struggle to remember exactly how well he was playing that season, but he played plenty of matches... and there's been enough matches this season during which I'd have killed for Roy Keane to be on the pitch. I'm sticking with the draw.

Not sure about much more reliable goalscorer - a bit more maybe, but he was already very good back then - 17 goals that season, which is more than he got in 10-11 or 12-13.
Again short v long term. Hottest young British property around, with years of glory stretching out, or annoying 28 year-old who speds half his time trying to engineer a way out?

On these three points, I'd take Neville because of his reliability, quality and the potential years still ahead. 30 for a top defender is fine. Rafael is still based on potential, he's very wreckless. This comparison is only a problem because in 2007 Neville got his bad injury. Before that he was rarely out. Given that wasn't predicted, I'd have Neville.

It's not that Keane was tailing off too badly, he did well in 04/05, but that Carrick is just at a higher level now with more years ahead. Carrick was in the team of the year in 12/13.

10/11 Rooney was injured a lot and 12/13 he was playing behind Van Persie and did very well at it. Regardless of numbers, he's improved as an all round player and where I think he struggled in the big one's or finals back then, he doesn't now. He hit that brilliant CL away games run in 10/11 as well where he scored in so many consecutive matches, big matches, up to and including the final. He wasn't capable of that in 04/05 or a few years thereafter. OK, when comparing the same player you'd always basically say 'turn back the clock and we'll have him again now at age 19' because you're taking into account potential and the years he'd have ahead of him, but comparing the two primarily in those seasons, Rooney now is much better.

 

[MrMarcello]

Seems some have forgotten Neville was easily in the top 5 RBs in the world from 2004-2007. Rafael is nowhere near that level yet.