The score might be level now but I'll consider this game lost with anto batting for the other side. 
Criteria Draft Round 1 - Aldo vs FromTheBench/Theon
- Thread starter RoadTrip
- Start date
@Aldo change in formation. Apologies I was asleep by the time you messaged me!
Gerrard isn't playing as DM here though. Makelele is. And when Totti played Trequarista he did a decent job in marking the DM which would be Mascherano in possession here. Simeone would have to drop deep to collect the ball from deep just like Gerrard would from Makelele. Except the different being Gerrard has the passing range from deep to spread play and connect with Totti/Cantona or drive the ball forward while Simeone didn't and was never in the same class even comparing their respective peaks.
Its' tough to argue for Gerrard on here obviously, but his best years came playing with someone like Hamann as DM where he just bossed games at times and his positional discipline playing as the 8 was more than adequate and even above average considering the attacking output he gave at the other end just with his drive. His positional play only became a problem when he was asked to operate as 6, a role which he did well too but not as well as his peak in which for 3/4 years he was immense. Especially 2 of them were probably above all of his contemporaries as a complete midfielder.
I'd actually say Makelele is a pretty perfect partner for him. The most underrated and probably amongst the most crucial galacticos as Florentino Perez found out to Chelsea's benefit. His screening abilities made a midfield 2 with Zidane of all people work in a CL final.
Blanc playing as sweeper from in behind adds a extra man and his excellent distribution abilities from the back as well which Desailly/Blanc don't match as great natural defenders they were.
If Hagi is marked and taken out where will be the passing come from is the question. The back 2 and the 2 in front are all limited passers. And Rivaldo, Hassler and RVP are exactly the kind of players that need feeding up front. They cannot drop deep and carry the ball over across the field alone even on the counter.
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I don't think Mascherano and Simeone will be able to stop Totti and Cantona, who were both just better players and not someone you could keep quiet by man marking them. It's never that easy.
But anyway, surely the same applies to Makelele marking Hagi?
Makelele is better defensively than either of Aldo's DM's and I think he has a much better chance of tracking Hagi than Mascherano does Totti.
If that happens and Makelele manages to keep Hagi quiet - Aldo has literally no transition whatsoever, there is no real passing ability up to Rivaldo/RVP.
There is no Laurent Blanc at the back and Gerrard is a far better passer than Mascherano or Simeone.
But anyway, surely the same applies to Makelele marking Hagi?
Makelele is better defensively than either of Aldo's DM's and I think he has a much better chance of tracking Hagi than Mascherano does Totti.
If that happens and Makelele manages to keep Hagi quiet - Aldo has literally no transition whatsoever, there is no real passing ability up to Rivaldo/RVP.
There is no Laurent Blanc at the back and Gerrard is a far better passer than Mascherano or Simeone.
The biggest mismatch on the pitch is Rivaldo on Panucci IMO. Solid player but not up there to contain Rivaldo for 90s minutes and should swing the game in my favour.
Panucci at his best was a very good player actually and underrated in all time stakes of Italian defenders and this role is suited to him totally and something he played pretty well in his career. Rivaldo would have to beat him on the inside where he comes up against Makelele and Blanc again.
On the outside there would be support from a very defensively solid Sagnol. If required in this formation Sagnol could tuck in and support Pannuci just like way lesser players Kuyt/Blind did a job on Sanchez. And when in possession burst forward and take adavantage of Ian Harte's weakness' whose the weakest player by a distance in both teams. I don't get the hypothesis that Sagnol would just stand there doing nothing either end. He was one of the best and most complete fullbacks/Wingbacks of his generation and a very good crosser.
Anyway, in a rigid tactical match where chances are less and weakness' being exploited, Romario is likely to be the difference most times over RVP especially if there is enough creativity and options to supply him in a totally fluid team.
On the outside there would be support from a very defensively solid Sagnol. If required in this formation Sagnol could tuck in and support Pannuci just like way lesser players Kuyt/Blind did a job on Sanchez. And when in possession burst forward and take adavantage of Ian Harte's weakness' whose the weakest player by a distance in both teams. I don't get the hypothesis that Sagnol would just stand there doing nothing either end. He was one of the best and most complete fullbacks/Wingbacks of his generation and a very good crosser.
Anyway, in a rigid tactical match where chances are less and weakness' being exploited, Romario is likely to be the difference most times over RVP especially if there is enough creativity and options to supply him in a totally fluid team.
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It's a bit unfair to say that Mascherano and Simeone can't stop Totti, Desailly and Stam cannot do a thing against Romario but Pannuci won't be troubled by Rivaldo. Doesn't really put across the true picture of the game and I am sure a few would agree with me on this.
That's bit of a oversimplification.
Totti and Cantona vs Simeone and Mascherano was the point by Theon, and as you said in your tactics Simeone isn't playing as a limited destroyer anyway in terms of what you expect him to do, though i think that is the role where he will eventually end up at in a game controlled by the other team.
Rivaldo on his day can trouble anybody and yes he can trouble Panucci as well despite him being a very good defender just as Romario can trouble Desailly/Stam with his lethal striker instincts and pace, but he needs service and passing in good areas from deep which that team lacks a bit beyond Hagi who has to deal with Makelele and can be curtailed and brought out of his comfort zone when dropping deep to collect balls from Mascherano and Simeone.
Also, the main point being missed is that Rivaldo isn't dealing with Panucci alone. He is dealing with Panucci + Sagnol on that side. Or Sagnol is free to go and take on Ian Harte completely along with other attackers drifting. Sagnol will contribute both defensively and Attacking wise and in terms of stretching play a lot in this formation.
And quite possibly Burn Harte who is the weakest player by a distance like Ashley Young burned Glenn Johson in the morning, in his own way without any support from Rivaldo tracking back. Harte is basically a pretty ordinary player in this company, and he was as a fullback as well though hyped up due to his set piece skills somewhat.
Just needs to play couple of quick one two's with Totti/Gerrard/Cantona and can catch out Harte positionally.
Totti and Cantona vs Simeone and Mascherano was the point by Theon, and as you said in your tactics Simeone isn't playing as a limited destroyer anyway in terms of what you expect him to do, though i think that is the role where he will eventually end up at in a game controlled by the other team.
Rivaldo on his day can trouble anybody and yes he can trouble Panucci as well despite him being a very good defender just as Romario can trouble Desailly/Stam with his lethal striker instincts and pace, but he needs service and passing in good areas from deep which that team lacks a bit beyond Hagi who has to deal with Makelele and can be curtailed and brought out of his comfort zone when dropping deep to collect balls from Mascherano and Simeone.
Also, the main point being missed is that Rivaldo isn't dealing with Panucci alone. He is dealing with Panucci + Sagnol on that side. Or Sagnol is free to go and take on Ian Harte completely along with other attackers drifting. Sagnol will contribute both defensively and Attacking wise and in terms of stretching play a lot in this formation.
And quite possibly Burn Harte who is the weakest player by a distance like Ashley Young burned Glenn Johson in the morning
, in his own way without any support from Rivaldo tracking back. Harte is basically a pretty ordinary player in this company, and he was as a fullback as well though hyped up due to his set piece skills somewhat. Just needs to play couple of quick one two's with Totti/Gerrard/Cantona and can catch out Harte positionally.
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Dang, this game is tight!
That's bit of a oversimplification.
Totti and Cantona vs Simeone and Mascherano was the point by Theon, and as you said in your tactics Simeone isn't playing as a limited destroyer anyway in terms of what you expect him to do, though i think that is the role where he will eventually end up at in a game controlled by the other team.
Rivaldo on his day can trouble anybody and yes he can trouble Panucci as well despite him being a very good defender just as Romario can trouble Desailly/Stam with his lethal striker instincts and pace, but he needs service and passing in good areas from deep which that team lacks a bit beyond Hagi who has to deal with Makelele and can be curtailed and brought out of his comfort zone when dropping deep to collect balls from Mascherano and Simeone.
Also, the main point being missed is that Rivaldo isn't dealing with Panucci alone. He is dealing with Panucci + Sagnol on that side. Or Sagnol is free to go and take on Ian Harte completely along with other attackers drifting. Sagnol will contribute both defensively and Attacking wise and in terms of stretching play a lot in this formation.
And quite possibly Burn Harte who is the weakest player by a distance like Ashley Young burned Glenn Johson in the morning
Just needs to play couple of quick one two's with Totti/Gerrard/Cantona and can catch out Harte positionally.
There's a lot of this I don't quite agree with here - to me, it seems like it only is showing 1 half of the picture. You cannot say that Panucci and Sagnol can stifle Rivaldo but then not acknowledge that Desailly and Stam vs Romario is even more of a mismatch. Simeone and Mascherano are energetic enough to really trouble Cantona and Totti. If only you didn't have Cantona, but had that 1 player to stretch the game on that side. I'd have definitely preferred that.
The points i was making is Romario and Totti/Cantona are being fed better service from deeper than Rivaldo/Hagi are being who will have to drop deeper and outside their comfort zone to collect the ball.
2ndly i was responding to the point Aldo made that Rivaldo can somehow isolate and trouble Panucci which he can on occasions with literally anyone, by saying that he will have to face both Panucci and Sagnol in a defensive sense on that side not Panucci alone.
You cannot create a hypothesis where Sagnol is not covering the lone man in attack on that side in defense to help out Panucci and also not troubling clearly the weakest player in either team Ian Harte in attack as Rivaldo won't track back.
If Sagnol pushes forward that side then Mascherano / Simeone have to drift out wide left to cover for him. That automatically creates space for Totti/Cantona and gerrard pushing on to create chances for Romario and if Mascherano/Simeone don't cover then he can play quick one two's and atleast catch out Harte once or twice in behind along with another couple of crossing oppurtunities to create chances for Romario and Cantona.
Which is why this Man to man cancelling out thing is too simplistic to begin with and even if it that's the case then it should work both ways and in such a game then the weak link will be exploited more.
If Simeone and Mascherano are occupied doing a man to man job then that leaves Gerrard free basically to boss the game. Who is picking him up otherwise?
And without Rivaldo tracking back it also leaves Sagnol free vs Harte in possession. I can see only 1 winner in that battle especially if our team has midfield control and possession.
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Harte's got a wonderful left peg and, facing a 3-5-2, he'll be able to move forward unchecked. Aldo is a bit workmanlike in the centre but Simeone will offer some 'transition' through his box-to-box engine. Fundamentally though I think for Aldo it's a case of winning the ball in the centre of the park, then feeding the simple ball out wide, enabling either full-back to move forward and bring Rivaldo and Basler into the game.
But the game is so much fluid than that - you can't say Sagnol will always be covering with Panucci but also say Sagnol is pushing forward up the field constantly to get at Harte and cause Aldo's DM's to drift out wide. What happens if Sagnol gets caught up field? Then you're in the shitter, really. You can't have it both ways - you can't say Sagnol is murking Harte, but Sagnol is also covering Rivaldo with Panucci.
For this reason, I think Sagnol will have to play more defensive. Leaving Panucci on Rivaldo is a disaster waiting to happen. And this allows Harte to get into the game, and I believe that is a key thing because it will allow Basler on the other flank to get some more space, and Harte has great delivery.
You've a really solid team, more balanced too. But I just think your best strengths are unfortunately negated so well by Aldo's team. Highly unfortunate.
A WB in a 3-5-2 works both ways. Yeah, there will be occasions Sagnol will get caught upfield and Panucci is more than capable of dealing with Rivaldo on those odd occasion. He was a very good defender and in Roma's 15 ever most important players. Hardly someone who will just get skinned by Rivaldo on every occasion they are one on one. And way better as a supposed weak link than Harte.
But you are missing the main point, i don't see how Aldo's team is going to dominate possession for any sustained period against our midfield options and also Blanc as sweeper along with 3 at the back and if that's the case there's more room for Sagnol to attack Harte as his team is in control of the ball.
And if Aldo's team is playing on the counter with Hagi blocked by Makelele on transition who gets the ball to Rivaldo or Bassler quickly anyway? Desailly, Stam, Mascherano and Simeone all can pull simple functional passes and that will slow down the play and allow the other the other team to recover anyway or they will have to go out wide and hit the long balls vis a vis the fullbacks almost There's no ball carrier from deep either. Or they just pass it out wide taking time of 1 or 2 passes and hit long balls.
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These are fair points. Aldo has stated he is playing on the counter just so you know.
While I agree with a lot of this, I don't think it's as simple to say "Makelele will block out Hagi". Your team will dominate possession, and I think i certainly agree with that. My issue is, even if you're bouldering men forward, I still feel like Aldo has more chance of scoring on the break than you do throwing men up. It's a tight game, a boring game, but there will be a few times in the game where Sagnol and Gerrard are caught up field, and there will be a lot of space for Hagi and Rivaldo and Basler to operate in. That is where I think the goal will come.
As I said, if you'd have had someone other then Cantona, you'd have my vote.
@rpitroda
Hmm... i can see your point and it's a fascinating contest, but still i don't get how the ball is reaching Rivaldo, Basler, RVP quickly enough on transition anyway to hurt the 3 man backline + one Wingback that will be deeper at one time + Makelele even in this scenario if it occurs on the odd occasion. None of those players are players you punt a long ball too and expect them to chase and create something or carry the ball over distances.
Plus in a tight game i'd back Romario to put away whatever chances created more than RVP and with control in possesion and abundance of creative players and a clear weak link in Harte vs a very good player on his side chances will surely be created here too.
Makelele blocking out Hagi or Hagi dropping deeper to track a free marauding Gerrard are as simplistic and likely as Mascherano / Simeone blocking everything out in midfield. Infact Makelele was on a different level at this sort of transitional blocking and Interception game.
Also, Hagi having to drop deeper to collect the ball is even more likely. Which limits his influence.
Hmm... i can see your point and it's a fascinating contest, but still i don't get how the ball is reaching Rivaldo, Basler, RVP quickly enough on transition anyway to hurt the 3 man backline + one Wingback that will be deeper at one time + Makelele even in this scenario if it occurs on the odd occasion. None of those players are players you punt a long ball too and expect them to chase and create something or carry the ball over distances.
Plus in a tight game i'd back Romario to put away whatever chances created more than RVP and with control in possesion and abundance of creative players and a clear weak link in Harte vs a very good player on his side chances will surely be created here too.
Makelele blocking out Hagi or Hagi dropping deeper to track a free marauding Gerrard are as simplistic and likely as Mascherano / Simeone blocking everything out in midfield. Infact Makelele was on a different level at this sort of transitional blocking and Interception game.
Also, Hagi having to drop deeper to collect the ball is even more likely. Which limits his influence.
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Fair enough. I did say I'm not at all sold on Panucci at RCB, but I do rate the two players either side of him so can see him do a decent enough job and the others picking up the pieces when it isn't good enough. But then there's Hagi...Hagi is often underrated in these drafts, though, and it was the reason I went for him thinking I'd build a team around him doing some justice to him. It's not easy though and I cannot pin point why. He's often well liked but when it comes to the business he's not really treated among the best in his position of his time which he well was. If he was as easy to shut down as FTB is suggesting here he won't be the player he is. Anyone who has not watched the Romania 3-2 Argentina from the 94 WC should watch it, it is a fantastic match and Hagi absolutely ran the show against none other than Fernando Redondo!
Yet here I am having to hear there's no link up between the defense and attack when that's precisely the job that has been given to Hagi and one he was outstanding in. I'm honestly puzzled.
Yet here I am having to hear there's no link up between the defense and attack when that's precisely the job that has been given to Hagi and one he was outstanding in. I'm honestly puzzled.
Not as underrated or hated as Gerrard on here.
Anyway, Makelele was probably the best ever at reading the game and blocking people on transition or cutting out attacks. He was totally unrivalled at that.
To quote myself again.
3 central Defenders is a good shield even Rivaldo and RvP. Makelele keeping a eye on Hagi will make it even more difficult for Aldo to score.
On the other hand I'm undecided on Cantona / Totti and Makelele / Gerrard partnerships.
Overall I'm leaning towards FTB..... Slightly.
On the other hand I'm undecided on Cantona / Totti and Makelele / Gerrard partnerships.
Overall I'm leaning towards FTB..... Slightly.
10 minutes to go....
Can't say I agree with any of those points mate. Hagi's not a one dimensional player who is only going to play hollywood balls, his close control and explosiveness was as much a part of his game as threading the needle and opening up a defense. Add to that, he was highly mobile, often shifting wide to bypass players (that is Makelele's kryptonite). We can go back to the game I just talked about and see how he bypasses the complete Argentine midfield by receiving the ball slightly wide of where a number 10 is expected to be found and accelerating from there, ending up giving a simple assist. And to quote myself again, throughout his career he was likened to Maradona, again not in terms of peak or achievement but playing style, and that is a type of player Makelele will struggle against.
But all that, is really conjecture. Players like Rivaldo, Hagi, Totti, Cantona, they are top players, and assuming they will not have an influence on the game because there are certain individuals are instructed to stop them is not what reality of their careers suggest. What that is suggesting is that the defensive players will have a great game while the attacking ones will have a stinker, without any basis. Theon talked about "if" Hagi is marked, I will struggle with getting the ball forward. Let's say I agree to that which would be ignoring Basler's creative input, but what "if" Makelele has a bad game as he is suggesting for Hagi, and there is no one else in the team who can do the job Makelele is supposed to be doing? It's simply, for a lack of a better word which I would apologize for, favouritism and doesn't lead to a) a constructive discussion and b) an accurate description of the game. Unless there is a proper mismatch in terms of the ability of the players involves, there's no way one can say with certainty how an individual battle will go one way or the other.
But this is a game of fine margins and we are forced to be certain otherwise there will never be an outcome to the voting, and there for me, Panucci leaking a goal with Rivaldo isolating him is really a lot more likely than Desailly or Stam doing the same against Romario. I don't understand how Sagnol's help makes a big difference, Rivaldo is not playing out wide, he is operating exactly in the area Panucci will be, there's no simplifying there. Would you call a winger isolating a fullback simplifying? I bet had I faced rpitroda I'd be losing by twice the votes because Overmars would have isolated Harte and taken advantage. There are times when we do over simplify these battles but this is not one of those cases, because it is really obvious, to me at least, that Rivaldo will spend most of the game isolating Panucci and taking advantage of that part of the pitch about which Sagnol's tucking in can do very little about. And it's simply more likely to produce a goal than Stam or Desailly would. Romario will score, I agree and I am aiming to keep your team's score down to 1, if I can do that, I would have a chance of getting the result, that is the best I can say without trying to undermine of the players.
But all that, is really conjecture. Players like Rivaldo, Hagi, Totti, Cantona, they are top players, and assuming they will not have an influence on the game because there are certain individuals are instructed to stop them is not what reality of their careers suggest. What that is suggesting is that the defensive players will have a great game while the attacking ones will have a stinker, without any basis. Theon talked about "if" Hagi is marked, I will struggle with getting the ball forward. Let's say I agree to that which would be ignoring Basler's creative input, but what "if" Makelele has a bad game as he is suggesting for Hagi, and there is no one else in the team who can do the job Makelele is supposed to be doing? It's simply, for a lack of a better word which I would apologize for, favouritism and doesn't lead to a) a constructive discussion and b) an accurate description of the game. Unless there is a proper mismatch in terms of the ability of the players involves, there's no way one can say with certainty how an individual battle will go one way or the other.
But this is a game of fine margins and we are forced to be certain otherwise there will never be an outcome to the voting, and there for me, Panucci leaking a goal with Rivaldo isolating him is really a lot more likely than Desailly or Stam doing the same against Romario. I don't understand how Sagnol's help makes a big difference, Rivaldo is not playing out wide, he is operating exactly in the area Panucci will be, there's no simplifying there. Would you call a winger isolating a fullback simplifying? I bet had I faced rpitroda I'd be losing by twice the votes because Overmars would have isolated Harte and taken advantage. There are times when we do over simplify these battles but this is not one of those cases, because it is really obvious, to me at least, that Rivaldo will spend most of the game isolating Panucci and taking advantage of that part of the pitch about which Sagnol's tucking in can do very little about. And it's simply more likely to produce a goal than Stam or Desailly would. Romario will score, I agree and I am aiming to keep your team's score down to 1, if I can do that, I would have a chance of getting the result, that is the best I can say without trying to undermine of the players.
Panucci was a excellent defender and was a top fullback for a period who could play CB and played for successful and elite clubs at the time. Hardly some donkey even in this company. You are terribly underrating him there and Sagnol will tuck in occasions when Rivaldo goes on the outside and help out.
And if you are saying that Rivaldo is totally tucking in then it's Sagnol vs Harte and there's one winner on that wing with his team controlling possesion. It won't be tough for Sagnol to cross away all day on that wing.
And if you are saying that Rivaldo is totally tucking in then it's Sagnol vs Harte and there's one winner on that wing with his team controlling possesion. It won't be tough for Sagnol to cross away all day on that wing.
Well the game is over, but I hope I wasn't unfair to anyone here. It was a very good game, FTB, as I said when I started my first post, really like your setup and the way you utilized the players. As the voting suggests it was very close and could have gone either way, which is honestly a fair refection of the game given both the sides involved.
Really good game, feel a tad sorry for FTB - great write up and great discussion, just really unlucky in his opponent.
I don't think I implied Panucci was a donkey here, apologies if I did, all I was asking was a bit of consistency in opinions. There are people who go with defense over attack and then there are who go with attack over defense, in closely contested battles. I personally go with attack over defense, but whatever of the two it is, one has to be consistent with it. If you want to contest that Panucci would do a fine job on Rivaldo with both of them being in close quarters the whole game, it is fine by me, but when at the same time you also suggest that Desailly and Stam would not be able to cope with Romario, that is where things don't look as objective as one might hope them to be, with both of them, clearly, at least to my eyes, having an ability more reliable against a top quality player such as Rivaldo or Romario.
As for the tucking in point, the game this morning can be taken as an example to differentiate between the working of a wingback and a lateral CB. We can compare the way Sterling was operating to the way Rivaldo would, and throughout the first half he was always taking on whoever was the right CB. Smalling saw him off once, then it was Jones who gave away the peno. I don't remember Young being there at the edge of the box tracking him, which is logical really. As a wingback in this formation, you have to provide width which is far more important than helping out your CB, which is clearly the risk this formation carries, that you need the CBs to not let much past them or there's trouble.
Anyway, these are just my thoughts, would be happy to hear yours and be corrected wherever I might have not made a lot of sense.
As for the tucking in point, the game this morning can be taken as an example to differentiate between the working of a wingback and a lateral CB. We can compare the way Sterling was operating to the way Rivaldo would, and throughout the first half he was always taking on whoever was the right CB. Smalling saw him off once, then it was Jones who gave away the peno. I don't remember Young being there at the edge of the box tracking him, which is logical really. As a wingback in this formation, you have to provide width which is far more important than helping out your CB, which is clearly the risk this formation carries, that you need the CBs to not let much past them or there's trouble.
Anyway, these are just my thoughts, would be happy to hear yours and be corrected wherever I might have not made a lot of sense.
Who was FTB/Theon's 12th man?
Was great having you, hopefully you'll play again in the next one too!
I actually responded to this exact point you made earlier in detail here and here -
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/cri...romthebench-theon.394303/page-2#post-16194346
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/cri...romthebench-theon.394303/page-2#post-16194384
And in the subsequent discussion. It's never as simplistic as being Romario vs Blanc and Desailly. It depends totally on what's behind them and what's in support and who has control in the game. Same is the case with Rivaldo vs Panucci and Sagnol.
Sterling is a bit different player to Rivaldo with his pace and dribbling being his main strengths. Anyway, if you see the game starting Valencia went up against Sterling in the first few minutes and then i remember Sterling and Young having a duel many times. See 2nd half where Sterling skinned Young a couple of times.
Even for the penalty incident it was Young was caught out positionally leading to the Space which sterling got into. I remember posting about it first in the match thread and then in the Young thread as well. Here -
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/ashley-young.387010/page-28#post-16192900
And taking today's game as example whenever we had control Ashley Young totally burned Glen Johnson in a way i can see there being a decent chance Sagnol doing to Harte with crossing opportunities. Especially when you consider which team will have possession.
Thanks, man. You have done a very nice job conceptualizing and organizing this.
Will try and partcipate if i have time assuming it's a interesting concept.
Looking forward to being the audience and not as invested in the remaining battles.
Thanks, man. You have done a very nice job conceptualizing and organizing this.
Will try and partcipate if i have time assuming it's a interesting concept.
Looking forward to being the audience and not as invested in the remaining battles.
Join the club :P
Thing is that was a very open game with both sides trading punches, there's nothing that suggests to me FTB's setup is particularly suicidal or bound to be left exposed that badly that he can't deal with your counter. I'm not seeing you quickly committing enough men forward to make things precarious. It's not really Hagi but Basler that strikes me as the one that isn't quite making the impact he should. I have to keep reminding myself he is there for some reason.
@FromTheBench Great team. I thought you would have it easy with those players! Hard luck mate!
I don't think it would be absolutely tight game, tbh. Not the one where you have I score 5, you score 6 but there are definitely elements I see which will open up the game. We can simply start with Gerrard being in a 2 man midfield. From my time watching him and interacting with Liverpool fans, his peak is usually considered either the one where he played behind Torres as the number 10 or the one where he played a right-ish AM role. CM would be his third favoured position by a comfortable margin and even less so in a 2 man midfield. So you have him often charging forward as long as you want him in the form of mid 00s, which then leaves Makelele to handle Hagi, with a Simeone breaking forward when I get the ball. Basler with Neville overlapping means Samuel and Luis have to occupied on that side, and clearly you need Blanc to mind RvP. I didn't want to get into these "X will handle Y" discussions that make the game appear extremely static like I have just done, but I am just trying to simplify some of it to say it would be an open affair in a fair way. Even if you ignore the player battles I have laid out, I think you can see how my players in attack drag the shape of his defense in a way that would suit my midfield runners, both Hagi and Simeone. Those are not small spaces but actually pretty much more than enough that you would want for someone like Hagi or Rivaldo to make a difference in the game. All this is without going into "I will win these many battles". It's just seems to me that it would actually an entertaining game despite the formations looking defensive minded, thanks to such movement and opening up of spaces all over the park as well as the players, on both sides, having some absolute entertainers who love putting on a show.
Agreed the point about Basler, I was too occupied by finding a partner for Neville who somewhat makes a similar partnership that Beckham did and there is little doubt in my mind that Basler would do that, and get in the delivery from out wide which is the variety you need, not another AM-cum-wide attacking midfielder whose strengths are the same as Hagi's or Rivaldo's to an extent. If I had some other fullback, I would not have bothered but I think it is important to take care of the wide player when you have a fullback such as Neville, specially when you have found someone who resembles his partner in crime so much.
Completely disagree with this. Dunno, who you are speaking too but his best days came as a 8 with a defensive player behind him everytime in the sort of role Scholes played for United in his earlier days in a slightly different way. Maybe some just see his goal/assists output increased in the season or 2 he played behind torres and assuming he was better just like People do with Scholes for a season where he played behind Van Nistelrooy.
Infact Makelele is a pretty ideal partner for him, Upgrage on Hamann and Simeone breaking forward is hardly a big threat given the type of player he was. Not even in the same league as Gerrard breaking forward and Gerrard as a 8 had tremendous energy to track back and put in Tackles rapidly at his peak. Don't get where this bizarre notion of him being absolutely naive and positionally clueless etc.. comes from. If he was, then so was Scholes in his earlier days playing with Keane and almost all number 8's unless a team is playing with 2 6's like Mascherano and Simeone or different kind of DM and DLP combinations like Pirlo/Gattuso, Older Scholes/Carrick etc..
Actually thinking about i do get where it comes from, but it's wrong. He was tactically naive and indisciplined playing as a 6 and has been through his career whenever he has played there but he was excellent both ways as a 8 when he had enough protection.
And Wide Midfield though he actually did well there too shouldn't even come into the debate for his best position. Team performing best under Rafa =/= Gerrard performing best necessarily. That's slightly less bad then Saying Scholes best position for England was wide left given England looked more competent than other tournaments with that setup.
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