Cristiano Ronaldo

[SportingCP96]

There was actually quite a fair few posts saying they don't remember Messi or Ronaldo being this good, some even said that no one had been as good at 18 (apparently they hadn't heard of Pele).[/QUOTE]
that is what i am talking about people are overhyping the lad he is a fantastic talent but some people take it too far

 

[The Mitcher]

Watch that FA Cup final. Ronaldo was our best player and the player we looked too to make everything happen creatively and that's in an FA Cup final with everyone fit. Yeah, Januzaj's been excellent and our most creative player against lower end teams, but when everyone is fit he's not even a first XI player at this point and that's in a failed team finishing 7th, not a team who finished 3rd and won the FA Cup.

As for footballing brain, one of Januzaj's biggest weaknesses right now is his decision making on the field. He's got loads of talent and ability but very frequently his decision making gives his age and inexperience away.

Someone like Fabregas is a player who had a brilliant footballing brain in his teens.



There was actually quite a fair few posts saying they don't remember Messi or Ronaldo being this good, some even said that no one had been as good at 18 (apparently they hadn't heard of Pele).

Don't forget Duncan Edwards was full England international at 17.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Ronaldo has barely had any end-products during his younger years, he was exciting and frustrating to watch at times, all flashy skills and steps-over and tons of potential, that's about it. So comparison with Januzaj at around 18 years of age isn't too way off, although he was way more electrifying back then and you knew the talent was huge even then.

 

[Nighteyes]

Watch that FA Cup final. Ronaldo was our best player and the player we looked too to make everything happen creatively and that's in an FA Cup final with everyone fit. Yeah, Januzaj's been excellent and our most creative player against lower end teams, but when everyone is fit he's not even a first XI player at this point and that's in a failed team finishing 7th, not a team who finished 3rd and won the FA Cup.

As for footballing brain, one of Januzaj's biggest weaknesses right now is his decision making on the field. He's got loads of talent and ability but very frequently his decision making gives his age and inexperience away.

Someone like Fabregas is a player who had a brilliant footballing brain in his teens.

You say Januzaj does well against lower end teams and then bring up the FA cup final against a league 1 team. On ability alone Januzaj is quite comfortably in our first team this season. Moyes didn't want to keep playing him. Ronaldo was playing in a better and yet managed to be infuriating many times whereas Januzaj has played in a team completely bereft of any kind of confidence for most of the season. His passing, composure, influence, football brain have all been at par with Ronaldo at the same age.

There was actually quite a fair few posts saying they don't remember Messi or Ronaldo being this good, some even said that no one had been as good at 18 (apparently they hadn't heard of Pele).

Messi was light years ahead of anyone at 18 and that includes Ronaldo.

 

[Blasphemy]

Don't forget Duncan Edwards was full England international at 17.

There's probably been loads of guys who were full internationals at good nations at that age.

Pele stands alone though. 6 goals in 4 games in a World Cup, leading his country to victory at only 18 years old having become a full international for Brazil at 16 and already a goal a game level player domestically in the state league.

 

[Blasphemy]

You say Januzaj does well against lower end teams and then bring up the FA cup final against a league 1 team. On ability alone Januzaj is quite comfortably in our first team this season. Moyes didn't want to keep playing him. Ronaldo was playing in a better and yet managed to be infuriating many times whereas Januzaj has played in a team completely bereft of any kind of confidence for most of the season. His passing, composure, influence, football brain have all been at par with Ronaldo at the same age.

I didn't see many people wanting Januzaj to start for us against Bayern and clearly Moyes didn't either and that's with Mata cup tied. I don't think he's a nailed on starter yet, Kagawa, Rooney, Mata, Welbeck all have a case ahead of him and so does Valencia in certain games.

Messi was light years ahead of anyone at 18 and that includes Ronaldo.

He wasn't better than Pele.

 

[JazzG]

Ok, monster is a little too much for the 18 year old.
But Januzaj is 19. Ronaldo led Portugal to a euro final with 19. I had that final with a 18 year old Ronaldo in my head. Sorry.

It was clear Ronaldo had a lot of talent but I remember seeing him then and he didn't stand out like he was going to be the best player in the world. I was here as well during that time and I remember many here feeling the same. 05-06 you could see a big improvement but that summer of 2006 is when things really changed. I don't know what this guy did but he came back looking like a fecking tank and never looked back. Cut all the bullshit out of his game and was just focused on scoring and setting up goals. I think Suarez had a similar transformation last season, before you could see the talent but so much drama and other shit, he cut that out and focussed all his attention on actually scoring and has pushed on.

 

[Nighteyes]

I didn't see many people wanting Januzaj to start for us against Bayern and clearly Moyes didn't either and that's with Mata cup tied. I don't think he's a nailed on starter yet, Kagawa, Rooney, Mata, Welbeck all have a case ahead of him and so does Valencia in certain games.

He wasn't better than Pele.

Januzaj has been better than all of our attacking options this season bar Rooney and perhaps RVP. Ronaldo was good at 18 but no one could have predicted he would become this good. People are letting the current Ronaldo alter their perception as to how good he was when he initially signed for us.

Never saw Pele so don't care.

 

[mancan92]

I know, it was mancan who said that.

I didnt say that at all. I said he was clearly the main driving force. Of which he was. As I said no team is a one man team but one man can be the driving force for the entire team and thats what Ronaldo was.

 

[anchan1989]

Januzaj has been better than all of our attacking options this season bar Rooney and perhaps RVP. Ronaldo was good at 18 but no one could have predicted he would become this good. People are letting the current Ronaldo alter their perception as to how good he was when he initially signed for us.

Never saw Pele so don't care.

How can you say that? He was good in a few matches this season, but had many poor and weaker showings too. Becauce of his age and no other good United story he was blown up by the media. He is not the first and wont be the last.
He could become great but atm he is just one of many great talents around the world with an ok season.

Back to Ronaldo: can anyone see him winning the world cup? How good is the form of Portugal?

 

[SportingCP96]

How can you say that? He was good in a few matches this season, but had many poor and weaker showings too. Becauce of his age and no other good United story he was blown up by the media. He is not the first and wont be the last.
He could become great but atm he is just one of many great talents around the world with an ok season.

Back to Ronaldo: can anyone see him winning the world cup? How good is the form of Portugal?

i dont see Portugal winning it i think we will reach QF that is my prediction we have a good midfield in Joao Moutinho Miguel Veloso and William Carvalho and a strong defense as well as a good keeper in attack Nani ( hopefully he will hit form ) and of course Ronaldo is a good team Portugal tend to perform in international tournaments so as i said i feel we will get QF but if we get to the Semis at that point anything can happen im already in World Cup mode

 

[MJJ]

Messi has been the best 18 year old I have ever watched, ronaldo is close though and janujaz is quite far from that level.

 

[Sly]

Even a Brian McBride level striker would be.

Im laughing but you are right

 

[Sly]

Back to Ronaldo: can anyone see him winning the world cup? How good is the form of Portugal?

Nope. In my opinion we will pass group stage. Everything else is a bonus. We only hit form against Sweden. Our qualifying round was very poor. Like i said multiple times, we really need a class striker to have any chance. The best prospect i see in the youth ranks is actually from Porto Academy. It´s the son of former Porto and Portugal internacional Domingos. Gonçalo Paciença is a very interesting striker with decent ability and strong physical attributes. He is currently playing in the Porto B team but i think he will have a chance at their main team soon. Porto has just appointed former Spain U19 and 21 National team coach Lopetegui and besides some spanish purchases i expect him to give a chance to some youth, since Porto will be rebuiliding their side next year. This Gonçalo Paciência dribble was very good:

 

[kouroux]

There was actually quite a fair few posts saying they don't remember Messi or Ronaldo being this good, some even said that no one had been as good at 18 (apparently they hadn't heard of Pele).

I don't remember reading those posts but they were/are IMHO a ridiculous exaggeration.

 

[Mockney]

I don't really know what this "football brain" shit means. It's a pretty subjective term to imply a vague level of unquantifiable "betterness"...Whatever people's memories of Ronaldo, he was pipped for the top from his debut. Best was raving about him being the real thing from the get go and he ran an FA Cup Final and won the Matt Busby Player of the Year in his first season. His next two years were a bit of a learning curve, but he was always earmarked for greatness.

Their stats are pretty similar though. Ronaldo played 40 games & scored 6 at 18, Januzaj has played 34 and scored 4. Not sure of assists, but I'd peg Ronaldo for more. Eitherway it's complete conjecture how similar their careers will be. But Januzaj has certainly not made more of a splash.

 

[MrMarcello]

Fat Ronaldo was ace at 18 from what I've read and heard.

 

[adexkola]

Watch that FA Cup final. Ronaldo was our best player and the player we looked too to make everything happen creatively and that's in an FA Cup final with everyone fit. Yeah, Januzaj's been excellent and our most creative player against lower end teams, but when everyone is fit he's not even a first XI player at this point and that's in a failed team finishing 7th, not a team who finished 3rd and won the FA Cup.

As for footballing brain, one of Januzaj's biggest weaknesses right now is his decision making on the field. He's got loads of talent and ability but very frequently his decision making gives his age and inexperience away.

Someone like Fabregas is a player who had a brilliant footballing brain in his teens.



There was actually quite a fair few posts saying they don't remember Messi or Ronaldo being this good, some even said that no one had been as good at 18 (apparently they hadn't heard of Pele).

Against Arsenal? Rooney and Scholes ran riot as well if I recall correctly. But yes, Ronaldo tore Lauren a new asshole that day.

 

[MrMarcello]

Against Arsenal? Rooney and Scholes ran riot as well if I recall correctly. But yes, Ronaldo tore Lauren a new asshole that day.

I think the poster is referring to Milwall match, and Ronaldo was sublime that day, but the entire side dominated a weak opponent. Keane and Scholes were amazing too. But so was Alberto in the CL Final that year against a much stronger side than Milwall.

 

[Mockney]

It's also important to take into account that Ronaldo was one of the first prodigy's of the "we watched everything they did" era. He broke through a couple of years before Messi, and he was being given less leeway than Januzaj is now for poor performances. You forget how we've acclimatised to that now. Ronaldo was given unfair stick that I don't think Januzaj would get now for being a 'showpony'. For example the idea he had less end product than Adnan is not remotely born out by the facts. But possibly by the less forgiving, more competitive 'deep end' judgement of 2004.

 

[SportingCP96]

Nope. In my opinion we will pass group stage. Everything else is a bonus. We only hit form against Sweden. Our qualifying round was very poor. Like i said multiple times, we really need a class striker to have any chance. The best prospect i see in the youth ranks is actually from Porto Academy. It´s the son of former Porto and Portugal internacional Domingos. Gonçalo Paciença is a very interesting striker with decent ability and strong physical attributes. He is currently playing in the Porto B team but i think he will have a chance at their main team soon. Porto has just appointed former Spain U19 and 21 National team coach Lopetegui and besides some spanish purchases i expect him to give a chance to some youth, since Porto will be rebuiliding their side next year. This Gonçalo Paciência dribble was very good:

fantastic skill but his scoring record for the B team is not that good last time i checked he looks like a guy that plays better behind the striker in a 2 striker formation

 

[Mockney]

Fat Ronaldo was ace at 18 from what I've read and heard.

Fat Ronaldo was the first real prodigy of the modern era. He was on a Messi trajectory. Without injuries I've no doubt he'd have been racking up similar numbers. He was on a goal per game rate until the first big injury at 22.

The fact his career is seen as a partial "what if" with the numbers he managed (which are still stellar for any striker + all time highest WC scorer) is testament to how good he could've been.

In his last year at his natural fitness he scored 25 in 30 in peak era Seria A

 

[adexkola]

I think the poster is referring to Milwall match, and Ronaldo was sublime that day, but the entire side dominated a weak opponent. Keane and Scholes were amazing too. But so was Alberto in the CL Final that year against a much stronger side than Milwall.

Ah. Fair enough. The final the following year sticks in the memory more. And I remember Ronaldo running riot against a still strong Arsenal.

 

[Sly]

fantastic skill but his scoring record for the B team is not that good last time i checked he looks like a guy that plays better behind the striker in a 2 striker formation

It´s his first year since moving from the youth ranks. He had very interesting numbers in the youth ranks. My Porto friends keep raving about him. I´m basing my opinion on their judgement.

 

[MrMarcello]

Fat Ronaldo was the first real prodigy of the modern era. He was on a Messi trajectory. Without injuries I've no doubt he'd have been racking up similar numbers. He was on a goal per game rate until the first big injury at 22.

The fact his career is seen as a partial "what if" with the numbers he managed (which are still stellar for any striker + all time highest WC scorer) is testament to how good he could've been.

Would have been the greatest ever probably. He dominated Serie A defenders when it was the best league in the world. Had he remained at Barca and injury free, he'd have topped 40 league goals annually. Damn shame.

 

[SportingCP96]

It´s his first year since moving from the youth ranks. He had very interesting numbers in the youth ranks. My Porto friends keep raving about him. I´m basing my opinion on their judgement.

because our own Betinho also had a very good youth rank scoring record and decent scoring in the B team 9 goals this year before being loaned out im hoping he gets more appearances for Setubel next year...now one player i think we can both agree i cant wait to see in our first team is Iur Medeiros what a year he had for the B team such a talented player

 

[Sly]

because our own Betinho also had a very good youth rank scoring record and decent scoring in the B team 9 goals this year before being loaned out im hoping he gets more appearances for Setubel next year...now one player i think we can both agree i cant wait to see in our first team is Iur Medeiros what a year he had for the B team such a talented player

To end the off topic since this is the Ronaldo thread, i don´t think Betinho will make it. I had my reservations about João Mario (Mental terms not technical) but i have to say you were right. Great loan spell at Setúbal and he is on Paulo Bento first World Cup list. About Iuri Medeiros, i´m sure that somewhere in the near future there will be a thread about him in this forum. Kid is that good.

 

[Mockney]

Would have been the greatest ever probably. He dominated Serie A defenders when it was the best league in the world. Had he remained at Barca and injury free, he'd have topped 40 league goals annually. Damn shame.

Completely, you just got me before the edit which made that point.

He's a really odd case. We talk about him like he was a failure, and yet if he was anyone else we'd be talking about him as a revered legendary Don. This is the guy who scored both goals in a winning WC final (in a tournament where he scored 8!) an achievement that should enshrine you in greatness, and yet the lingering memory is what could've been in 98. A guy who scored over 100 goals for Madrid in an injury blighted stint, won the Ballon d'or twice, in different countries, the FIFA WPY 3 times, is the highest scorer in World Cup history and who's career record is still a staggering near 400 goals in just over 500 games and we chat about him like he's a semi-mythical lost cause. It's weird.

He's probably the first victim of modern football hype. He had an amazing career, but we somehow castigate him for not having a better one.

It probably doesn't help that a player with the same name has overlapped him in prominence. But even so, as great as Cristiano is, there are still a few ways to argue that an imperfect, crippled Fat Ronnie had the better career.

 

[MrMarcello]

The two goals in the final are awesome yet Rivaldo ran that show. Ronaldo was nowhere near TBPITW in 2002 or 2003. More a product of fame and recognition. Great striker nonetheless but by 2002 he was half the player he was in 1998, which is still better than all but maybe five or ten players at the time, and goes to show just how great he was pre-injury.

 

[SportingCP96]

To end the off topic since this is the Ronaldo thread, i don´t think Betinho will make it. I had my reservations about João Mario (Mental terms not technical) but i have to say you were right. Great loan spell at Setúbal and he is on Paulo Bento first World Cup list. About Iuri Medeiros, i´m sure that somewhere in the near future there will be a thread about him in this forum. Kid is that good.

i completely agree with you ...i really hope betinho makes it tho ....ok thats the end of the off topic

 

[adexkola]

Completely, you just got me before the edit which made that point.

He's a really odd case. We talk about him like he was a failure, and yet if he was anyone else we'd be talking about him as a revered legendary Don. This is the guy who scored both goals in a winning WC final (in a tournament where he scored 8!) an achievement that should enshrine you in greatness, and yet the lingering memory is what could've been in 98. A guy who scored over 100 goals for Madrid in an injury blighted stint, won the Ballon d'or twice, in different countries, the FIFA WPY 3 times, is the highest scorer in World Cup history and who's career record is still a staggering near 400 goals in just over 500 games and we chat about him like he's a semi-mythical lost cause. It's weird.

He's probably the first victim of modern football hype. He had an amazing career, but we somehow castigate him for not having a better one.

It probably doesn't help that a player with the same name has overlapped him in prominence. But even so, as great as Cristiano is, there are still a few ways to argue that an imperfect, crippled Fat Ronnie had the better career.

Maybe on the international stage, but overall I think slim Ronaldo takes it by a fair margin.

You wrote a nice piece on Ronaldo when he left for Madrid, I can't find it anywhere. Do you remember?

 

[SportingCP96]

Completely, you just got me before the edit which made that point.

He's a really odd case. We talk about him like he was a failure, and yet if he was anyone else we'd be talking about him as a revered legendary Don. This is the guy who scored both goals in a winning WC final (in a tournament where he scored 8!) an achievement that should enshrine you in greatness, and yet the lingering memory is what could've been in 98. A guy who scored over 100 goals for Madrid in an injury blighted stint, won the Ballon d'or twice, in different countries, the FIFA WPY 3 times, is the highest scorer in World Cup history and who's career record is still a staggering near 400 goals in just over 500 games and we chat about him like he's a semi-mythical lost cause. It's weird.

He's probably the first victim of modern football hype. He had an amazing career, but we somehow castigate him for not having a better one.

It probably doesn't help that a player with the same name has overlapped him in prominence. But even so, as great as Cristiano is, there are still a few ways to argue that an imperfect, crippled Fat Ronnie had the better career.

do you think Ronaldo did that good for Brazil because he also had such an amazing team around him ? just wondering also how do you think Cristiano would fair in that Brazil team ?

 

[Raul Madrid]

do you think Ronaldo did that good for Brazil because he also had such an amazing team around him ? just wondering also how do you think Cristiano would fair in that Brazil team ?

Very well. Even torres managed to win the top scorer award at euro 2012 for spain and he didn't start all the matches and didn't even play in some games

 

[Mockney]

The two goals in the final are awesome yet Rivaldo ran that show. Ronaldo was nowhere near TBPITW in 2002 or 2003. More a product of fame and recognition. Great striker nonetheless but by 2002 he was half the player he was in 1998, which is still better than all but maybe five or ten players at the time, and goes to show just how great he was pre-injury.

Well that's the point innit. He still achieved what would be most people's career peak well after he'd been made half the player by injury. We judge him by his own imagined standard.

do you think Ronaldo did that good for Brazil because he also had such an amazing team around him ? just wondering also how do you think Cristiano would fair in that Brazil team ?

It depends what Ronaldo. Pre-99 Ronaldo, without a doubt. Post 99 Ronaldo, who knows. But that team wasn't exactly '70 pedigree itself. It was top heavy. It had Kleberson & Gilberto Silva in CM FFS! He still scored 8 goals, more than any other WC striker since Muller in (ironically) '70

 

[SportingCP96]

Very well. Even torres managed to win the top scorer award at euro 2012 for spain and he didn't start all the matches and didn't even play in some games

thats why as good as Ronaldo was i still wonder who in fact the "Real Ronaldo " is international career Ronaldo had the privilege of playing in a amazing Brazil team ..Cristiano does not have that privilege as for club football its different ...i would like to here a lot of you guys opinions who is better Cristiano Ronaldo or Brzilian Ronaldo ? or do you think Cristiano will only be better then him by the time he retires or is he already ?

 

[Raul Madrid]

thats why as good as Ronaldo was i still wonder who in fact the "Real Ronaldo " is international career Ronaldo had the privilege of playing in a amazing Brazil team ..Cristiano does not have that privilege as for club football its different ...i would like to here a lot of you guys opinions who is better Cristiano Ronaldo or Brzilian Ronaldo ? or do you think Cristiano will only be better then him by the time he retires or is he already ?

Imo there is no "real" Ronaldo, they are both legends. Brazilian Ronaldo was probably more naturally talented, but was hindered by injury but still had an amazing career. Cristiano will probably surpass him or maybe already has surpassed him through sheer consistency that only messi has matched. Some people will consider the Brazilian to be a bigger legend because he won the world cup but if Ronaldo helps Madrid win la decima and becomes madrids all-time top goal scorer surpassing raul and di Stefano in less games then there is a big chance he will be seen as madrids best ever player. That is probably the most any current Madrid player can achieve as di Stefano will always be seen as the most important player in the clubs history and the clubs biggest legend the same way cruyff is at barca and Bobby Charlton at united.

 

[SportingCP96]

Imo there is no "real" Ronaldo, they are both legends. Brazilian Ronaldo was probably more naturally talented, but was hindered by injury but still had an amazing career. Cristiano will probably surpass him or maybe already has surpassed him through sheer consistency that only messi has matched. Some people will consider the Brazilian to be a bigger legend because he won the world cup but if Ronaldo helps Madrid win la decima and becomes madrids all-time top goal scorer surpassing raul and di Stefano in less games then there is a big chance he will be seen as madrids best ever player. That is probably the most any current Madrid player can achieve as di Stefano will always be seen as the most important player in the clubs history and the clubs biggest legend the same way cruyff is at barca and Bobby Charlton at united.

If Ronaldo stays at Madrid for the rest of his career I think their is no doubt he will be the top scorer in the clubs history and in such a short time is incredible also if he wins la decima would be quite a achievement will Real Madrid fans ever consider CR7 as the best ever to wear Madrid colors tho ?

 

[Raul Madrid]

If Ronaldo stays at Madrid for the rest of his career I think their is no doubt he will be the top scorer in the clubs history and in such a short time is incredible also if he wins la decima would be quite a achievement will Real Madrid fans ever consider CR7 as the best ever to wear Madrid colors tho ?

Like I said, if he becomes the all-time top scorer and helps the team to win la decima he probably will be seen by many fans as the clubs best ever player. I think the title of most important player and biggest club legend will always belong to di Stefano though as he helped transform the club and was the main man in a team that won 5 European cups in a row which was arguably the most important and defining moments in madrids history. Without those 5 European cups who knows how big a club Madrid would be now, but it is hard to imagine Madrid being viewed with the same prestige that they are viewed with now without them.

 

[#07]

Completely, you just got me before the edit which made that point.

He's a really odd case. We talk about him like he was a failure, and yet if he was anyone else we'd be talking about him as a revered legendary Don. This is the guy who scored both goals in a winning WC final (in a tournament where he scored 8!) an achievement that should enshrine you in greatness, and yet the lingering memory is what could've been in 98. A guy who scored over 100 goals for Madrid in an injury blighted stint, won the Ballon d'or twice, in different countries, the FIFA WPY 3 times, is the highest scorer in World Cup history and who's career record is still a staggering near 400 goals in just over 500 games and we chat about him like he's a semi-mythical lost cause. It's weird.

He's probably the first victim of modern football hype. He had an amazing career, but we somehow castigate him for not having a better one.

It probably doesn't help that a player with the same name has overlapped him in prominence. But even so, as great as Cristiano is, there are still a few ways to argue that an imperfect, crippled Fat Ronnie had the better career.

That's mostly because people remember 'The Phenomeon' at his peak and recognise, as good as he was post-knee injuries, he was less than he might have been. It sounds stupid when you consider moments like his hat trick at Old Trafford came after the period thought of as his best days. However, its clear than Luiz Ronaldo lost a lot of his exposive pace after that injury at Inter.

The later Luiz Ronaldo didn't quite have the ability to leave defenders in his wake. He was, at the start anyway, still quite quick but not as fast as he was before his knee went. At his best Luiz Ronaldo could run with the ball in a way that would make anything the likes of Henry could do look inferior. The speed at which he could attack defenders with the ball tied to his bootlaces was frightening. Plus, he had real physical power which allowed him to brush off defenders effortlessly. Kinda like putting the close control of Andres Iniesta in Gareth Bale's body or something.

Luiz Ronaldo was the greatest striker I ever saw. The player who ultimately woddled his way to the record goal total at World Cups bore no resemblance to Luiz Ronaldo at his very best. That is why people talk about what might have been rather than what was with him.



As opposed to this Cristiano Ronaldo is a machine. Instead of slow down with age he's only gotten stronger. Every season Cristiano breaks a new record. Every year he reaches a new height. Its a privellege just to see what the artist formerly known as CR7 will do next. Mostly thanks to Barcelona he hasn't had the record of winning he should have had at Real Madrid. However, its written in the stars that he will lift the European Cup in his own country in a few weeks time right? If Cristiano follows that up with something very special in Brazil then, it won't be a question of is he the best player in the world today, it will be a question of where he ranks among the greats of the game.

 

[SportingCP96]

Like I said, if he becomes the all-time top scorer and helps the team to win la decima he probably will be seen by many fans as the clubs best ever player. I think the title of most important player and biggest club legend will always belong to di Stefano though as he helped transform the club and was the main man in a team that won 5 European cups in a row which was arguably the most important and defining moments in madrids history. Without those 5 European cups who knows how big a club Madrid would be now, but it is hard to imagine Madrid being viewed with the same prestige that they are viewed with now without them.

Cheers thanks for the opinion