Yet they weren't that good last year. Had some diabolical matches against Lazio, Atalanta, Samp in the league, exited the cups early as well.
Cristiano Ronaldo : The Juventus Chapter | Fin
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Yet they weren't that good last year. Had some diabolical matches against Lazio, Atalanta, Samp in the league, exited the cups early as well.
He wasn't deprived of quality service... they didn't even get to the stages where getting service was a possibility. They literally went past the half way line about 4 or 5 times all game. I'd love to watch Neymar or Messi in the same circumstances... but it never happens.
Him and Higuain have been great together too, just as they were in Madrid. That partnership will last.
Eased to the double?
The title was completely gone after 87 minutes away to Inter when they scored 2 goals in the last minutes to take it in a very polemic and lucky game. It was one of the most tight title races I've ever seen. Eased to the double? How did you get to that conclusion?
And it's not the same team btw. 2017/18 they had Douglas Costa fit for long periods of time which changes everything. Ronaldo, Costa and Chiellini are 3 of the 4 best players in the team along with Pjanic. Costa and Chiellini are injured for months. Without them they go down a level. If Ramos and Modric were always injured and they always had to play Nacho and Kovacic instead, Ronaldo wouldn't have won what he did in Madrid either.
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This is ridiculous, Juventus were not good last year relatively speaking, despite winning the title.
First of all, the team did not play well. They got results, but they were dominated especially in midfield by lesser teams. Look at the games against Lazio, Atalanta, Genoa, SPAL etc. These were teams than Juve should have totally dominated with their B-team, but couldn't and didn't. So that's why fans were not happy with Allegri despite an 8th consecutive title, and that's why not many are crying over his departure.
Secondly, they lacked ideas upfront. Allegri tried to shoehorn Ronaldo and Dybala and when that didn't work, he benched Dybala and went for Mandzukic + Ronaldo. And then you have a bunch of bruisers in midfield like Emre Can, Sami Khedira, Matuidi, your creative input is limited to Pjanic, Bernadeschi and Douglas Costa who was more injured than healthy. Yes, you can rely on Ronaldo to bail you out 7-8 times out 10, but when you play good organized teams that play total football like Ajax (or Atalanta) they were shown up. I believe they wouldn't be able to live with Barca or Liverpool either if they had progressed to the semis.
And then finally, this year's scudetto is not a foregone conclusion by any means. Yes, they'll better Napoli who didn't seem to strengthen much this summer, but Inter looks good. Stefano Sensi, Lukaku, Nicolò Barella, Diego Godin, Alexis Sanchez they are players that can massively contribute towards their season in a Conte team.
Yes, i'm sure they were just sooo damn lucky to go 24 wins 3 draws in their first 27 league games
That is relative. They still won almost every game they played, so clearly, they weren't doing too bad
A game they won, italian cup, then two games that came after their season was effectively over. How about that
And yet it worked just fine. They wiped the floor with Valencia away down to 10 men, embarassed united home and away(even in a game they somehow ended up losing!) Pulled off the comeback against atletico madrid...
They collpased in the second half at home against ajax. But i've already covered that, that was Allegri's fault.
So basically, Conte. Allright, we'll see
You seem to live in this alternate universe where Ronaldo has overtaken Messi. To most football people (as in more often than not), be it neutral football fans, football managers/ coaches, bona fide legends of the game, Messi is seen as the superior of the two. You may disagree, as is your right, but failing to acknowledge the reality i've just laid out doesn't cut it.
Messi is genuinely see as the greatest of all time by many non Barcelona/ Argentina related people. Cristiano is not seen as the greatest by many non Real Madrid/ Man Utd/ Portugal related people. A sad reality for Cristiano fanboys to accept.
Yes, i'm sure they were just sooo damn lucky to go 24 wins 3 draws in their first 27 league games
That is relative. They still won almost every game they played, so clearly, they weren't doing too bad
A game they won, italian cup, then two games that came after their season was effectively over. How about that
And yet it worked just fine. They wiped the floor with Valencia away down to 10 men, embarassed united home and away(even in a game they somehow ended up losing!) Pulled off the comeback against atletico madrid...
They collpased in the second half at home against ajax. But i've already covered that, that was Allegri's fault.
So basically, Conte. Allright, we'll see
You can't have it both ways dude on the bolded games.
Yes Juve can win games in Serie A by just showing up - breaking records like PSG does in France does not fecking matter much in the grand scheme of things. The team was unprepared when the goings got tough - Juve never got going.
Atletico wasn't a one off- they lost to the Young Boys, they lost to us, they lost to Atletico, they lost to Ajax. With Ajax, they were outplayed in Amsterdam and Turin. That's not acceptable for a supposedly top 5 team in Europe. One game is acceptable 4 or 5 are too much.
It's not just Conte, we'll see.
Name 5 teams that have been better and achieved more than Juventus in the last 3 years to be considered a top 5 team in Europe?
To be honest this is a lie, I don't know why you guys are just deliberately lying on here, I'm from Africa and a lot of people consider Ronaldo the greatest here, its no foregone conclusion at all. And why would it be, Ronaldo has won more, scored more, shown up in big matches more...
I'd consider the following 5 better than Juve over the past 3 years: Real, Barca, Bayern, Liverpool, City
Barca are probably the better team by virtue of winning the tougher La Liga on the bounce. Real Madrid won 3 of the last 4 CL. Bayern have won as much in Germany as Juve in Italy, so their achievements are probably par. Liverpool have won the CL. City have won the PL twice over which is arguably tougher than the Serie A.
Messi's legacy will grow smaller and smaller as the years go by. Ronaldo's will grow bigger and bigger. That's the nature of having the big stage achievements Ronaldo's had without ever playing in a team half as good as the one Messi got all his biggest titles with.
I think if anything it's Messi fanboys who are having troubles accepting reality, they get more and more bitter after every international tournament that goes by. Just look at this thread... it's a thread about Ronaldo and there are more Messi fanboys here than Ronaldo fanboys.
Speaking of attention seeking.
Not sure about that, they will go down as the two that dominated an era, with slightly more preferring Messi's style over Ronaldo's.
One game they played like crap and still won because of their overwhelming talent. The other was a game were they were fecking great and lost to a fluke and poor finishing
No, they got worse is what happened. Between injuries and fitness they got worse, and Allegri's coaching style just didn't get the best out of that team
Hence Allegri's gone
This inter team coached by Spalletti would be no better than last season
Umm no what I will agree on and as do most as you pointed out is Messi is the more talented of the two. Anyone can see that and I am not disputing that but Ronaldo is the better player and if you compare there Careers left right and center it tells you that.
If my life was on the line and I have to pick Ronaldo or Messi to lead my team I am picking Ronaldo every single day of the week and twice on Sunday. The same reason many will pick MJ over Lebrun even though it is very arguable that LeBron is the more talented player.
Ronaldo will still be relevant at 36 and 37 playing high level competitive football. By 35 I don’t think we can say the same about Messi.
Okay lads, you’ve had your fun. Take it to the Ronaldo v Messi thread.
I watched most Juve games last year because of Ronaldo but it was always a chore watching them with that lacklustre midfield. Costa and Bernadeschi were the only ones creating chances but even the later is not very strong in decision making.
I was surprised Ronaldo scored more than 20 goals actually. Juve had difficulties creating many chances, at least compared to the Spanish giants, Bayern, Liverpool and City.
I was surprised Ronaldo scored more than 20 goals actually. Juve had difficulties creating many chances, at least compared to the Spanish giants, Bayern, Liverpool and City.
@SportingCP96 I know you love your basketball analogies and all (they work most of the time to be fair), but in what world is LeBron more talented than Jordan?
Yes I do
in fairness it is my second favorite sport after futebol.I never said he was I said it could be argued he is. He is a forward who can also play the point is a fantastic passer and willing scorer, physically he is also the prototype basketball player made straight from the lab. Like I said I can see why it could be argued. Undoubtedly MJ is better though.
Too many bitter people in here.
Yes, fair assessment. They had a fairly mediocre midfield, and were outplayed by many teams in Europe and Italy.
What does being able to play till 35 (admirable though it is) prove? Leo's longevity at the very highest level is already legendary. The other GOATS, Pele, Diego and Cruyff, how many of them were the best player in the world at Leo's current age of 32? What did Diego do after 30? What did Pele do after 30?
What is it exactly you disagree on? That the majority of the football world considers Leo greater? You can't be that deluded to not see that.
You can't name me 5 non Real/ Man Utd/ Portugal affiliated people that would claim Cristiano as the greatest (not greater than Leo but the best in history). There are many that would claim Leo is so. It's obvious to most on here even, on a Man Utd forum, that Leo is considered greater.
I know he is United affiliated but nonetheless the greatest coach of all time also thinks Ronaldo is the greatest and what Ronaldo has done is always played down though he has achieved and done much more. As the saying goes you don't know what you have until its gone.
I admire both and unlike many Messi fans who have this weird hate for CR7 I actually admire and respect Messi and am privileged to see him play but undoubtedly Ronaldo is the greatest player I have ever seen its just remarkable what he does. You get lost for words.
Fergie?
“The Messi I saw 10 years ago was on verge of being the best, the Messi I saw today is already the greatest ever" - Sir Alex Ferguson on Lionel Messi
Ronaldo is undoubtedly great.
But if, as you seem to claim, Ronaldo is the greatest player who ever lived, what does that say about football relative to other sports?
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I can see both sides really. I'm in the CR camp because imho he is more important to the exposure of footie around the world, and how can you not have a soft spot for someone who relies on always working harder than anyone else vs someone with probably more natural talents like Messi. In that respect CR also wins the role model contest. Overall though - Messi is undoubtedly a better role model for footie as a team sport, sportsmanship and respect on the pitch. A CR team revolves around CR.. And yes he s a bit of a cnut. Barça never allowed one player to be larger than the collective. Again.. Imho.
How? Because I am a Sporting fan and Portuguese? Feck Portuguese feck Argentinian, Ronaldo could have been Korean and my opinion would still be the same.And dead biased.
Yes Fergie if I am not mistaken (I will look for the quote when I get home) he said something along the lines of "Messi is a system based player where as you can stick Ronaldo in the third division and he will produce the same amount of numbers.
Something like that. I gotta find the quote.
I don't understand the last part "what does that say about football relative to other sports" what are you insinuating by that?
Also when it comes to the mount Rushmore (Maradona,Messi,CR7,Pele) its all subjective and I can see why anyone would pick either one of them.
No one will ever do what Ronaldo and Messi have done ever again.
@Shamana
“It’s interesting to me that we hear so much about two players these days: Ronaldo and Messi,” Ferguson said in an impromptu appearance at the K Club in Kildare, scene of the upcoming Irish Open. “Now don’t get me wrong, Messi is a fantastic player, it’s like he’s wearing slippers when he controls the ball. But here, for me, is the difference. Messi is a Barcelona player.
“But Ronaldo could play for Stockport County and score a hat-trick. He has everything. He can shoot with both feet, head the ball, he’s as brave as a lion, and here’s something else people overlook.
"He also suggested the Argentine may be best suited to Barcelona's very particular style of play, rather than having the Portuguese marvel's ability to play for anyone."
“It’s interesting to me that we hear so much about two players these days: Ronaldo and Messi,” Ferguson said in an impromptu appearance at the K Club in Kildare, scene of the upcoming Irish Open. “Now don’t get me wrong, Messi is a fantastic player, it’s like he’s wearing slippers when he controls the ball. But here, for me, is the difference. Messi is a Barcelona player.
“But Ronaldo could play for Stockport County and score a hat-trick. He has everything. He can shoot with both feet, head the ball, he’s as brave as a lion, and here’s something else people overlook.
"He also suggested the Argentine may be best suited to Barcelona's very particular style of play, rather than having the Portuguese marvel's ability to play for anyone."
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Ronaldo could play for anyone - Millwall, QPR, Doncaster Rovers - and score a hat-trick in a game. I'm not sure Messi could do it," said the legendary manager.
This is something I have said many times. Messi is a system player and he has stayed in the safe environment of Barcelona throughout his career Ronaldo has proven himself in more leagues and more teams and most importantly his country who unlike Argentina is never a favorite.
The truth is for many years I have even heard people say Messi is better because he is a nice guy and Ronaldo is a Cnut. Like huh? what does that have to do with anything?
I also hate that because I am a Sporting fan and Portuguese I am "biased". I know Portuguese people who likes Messi more. Hell even my pops likes Messi more. His reasoning? Ronaldo is a cocky little shit. Which may be true but the man is absolutely brilliant.
This is something I have said many times. Messi is a system player and he has stayed in the safe environment of Barcelona throughout his career Ronaldo has proven himself in more leagues and more teams and most importantly his country who unlike Argentina is never a favorite.
The truth is for many years I have even heard people say Messi is better because he is a nice guy and Ronaldo is a Cnut. Like huh? what does that have to do with anything?
I also hate that because I am a Sporting fan and Portuguese I am "biased". I know Portuguese people who likes Messi more. Hell even my pops likes Messi more. His reasoning? Ronaldo is a cocky little shit. Which may be true but the man is absolutely brilliant.
You sure about that ? Look at how toothless he becomes when there's no support. Last match vs Fiorentina as an example. If he played for some shitty team who has to constantly defend i very much doubt it he'd score a ton of goals
If Ronaldo is football's greatest ever exponent then the sport itself would come up short relative to others imo.
It's still a trio for me, but I can see the case for Ronaldo's inclusion to make it a foursome.
Someone will. In fact, I'd the chances of it are higher now given the way the club game has evolved in Europe.
I disagree for one he is also very dynamic because he has changed his style of play 3x in his career and lastly he has played in 3 different tea (I am not counting Sporting because he was a baby) plus Portugal where those players only play with each other a handful of times a year and has produced the goods. Juve is a very defensive team and poor at creating chances and he still got a near 30 goals last season and I would bet he gets to 40 this season. So there is proof in that statement.
Messi? Has been a product of a very ball dominant system at Barca and during the prime of his career arguably the best team of all time. The only time we see him out of Barca is in Argentina and although he is obviously still world class he just simply is not the same player he is a level or 2 below his Barca form. Coincidence? not a chance, If he played for Chelsea, United, Arsenal, Juve, inter we would have a different Messi and sadly we will never be able to see that because he never tested himself elsewhere after he had and has nothing less to prove in Barca.
1 league goal so far, same as Danilo and Chiellini.
6 time european champion... 1 more than FC Barcelona
We need a graph that measures the correlation between Barcelona’s Champions League humiliations and Argentina’s international tournament disappointments with the amount of Messi fanboys in this thread. Has to be some sort of record this
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1. The first part is subjective and your opinion (which you stated) Ronaldo and Messi both have a case for 1 and 2 in what ever order you choose for the greatest two players the Sport has ever seen and we saw them at the same time.
2. Ronaldo and Messi have been compared to each other there whole careers and we are currently debating who is better so by default if one is on the Mount Rushmore then so is the other.
3. They might as nothing in certain in life but it will be a looonnng time before we see someone do what they have done with the consistency they have achieved along with all their records and accomplishments. Another reason I believe it might not happen again is because the only reason we have witnessed it in the first place is because by the pure grace of god we were given both of these players in the same era and they pushed each other to new heights and forms. If it was only one I think their level would not be as high.
Well in the end everything's subjective I suppose, but Ronaldo just isn't on the same ability level as a number of the greatest in his own sport, never mind other sports.
Pele and Maradona have strong cases for being 1 and 2 as well.
I don't think there's much debate as to who is better. Rather it's around who is greater.
I agree with your point about how they've pushed each other to new heights, but the consolidation of the game in Europe around a group of super-clubs provides significant underpinning for the statistical feats both have achieved. And they don't get more super than Barcelona and Real Madrid.
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Where does he say Ronaldo is the better player?
I don't know how to do the quote thing you do so that's why I number it
anyways.1. Tom Brady is the GOAT in his respective sport but there many many more talented quarterbacks but that does not change anyones answer. Ronaldo is better at his respective sport than Brady is in his. Does that make sense? it made sense in my head
2. They do for what they mean to the game as they both impacted it in their own way. But Messi and Ronaldo have just as strong cases.
3. I agree with your point to an extent but its not a wrong "answer or opinion" (REGARDING my point #3).
I don't get this. We keep hearing that the reason he's not doing that well at Juve is because the Juve team is poor and doesn't create enough chances and that's why he wasn't even in the Top 3 scorers in Italy last year. So how exactly, would Ronaldo, score hat tricks in every game for teams like Millwall, QPR etc when they are infinitely worse teams than Juventus? It seems a bit contradictory, no?
Why is that the case? The seasons before Ronaldo came in :
Now, the team has been more or less the same in 2016-17 and 2017-18 and then they went and added Ronaldo to that squad. Why is it surprising that Ronaldo got 20 goals in that league in that team when it's happened for their strikers in both the previous seasons? Its a league in which Quaglieriella got some 26 goals last season in a far inferior team so, given how good Ronaldo still is, there really isn't anything surprising at all about Ronaldo getting to 20 goals.
I don't rate Allegri as a great coach either but to blame this on Juve being poor or not creative isn't right when the season before Ronaldo came in, they scored 16 more goals in the League than they did with him. The failure to integrate Dybala into the team instead of crossing to Ronaldo and hoping for the best obviously hasn't helped either but this was a Juve team that was scoring at a decent level and had goals spread out.
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