I was joking
Cristiano Ronaldo : The Juventus Chapter | Fin
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I was joking
Didn't get the drift
Who on earth is, then? In terms of star status and brand stemming from sporting career Michael Jordan is on another planet.
Didn't get the drift
A more interesting dicussion would be Iniesta vs Lampard. Iniesta only has 57 goals in 674 matches for Barcelona vs Lampard with 211 goals in 648 goals for Chelsea. It looks stupid when you just look at the stats, but when you've seen both play throughout their careers most non-Chelsea fans would give it Iniesta. No discredit to Lampard really who's probably some what underrated. With Messi and Ronaldo they have very similar stats(with goals anyway), but very different roles, qualities and styles of play.
Winning the league at Juventus is akin to bragging you got a toy in your happy meal. I wouldn't say he challenged himself at all playing in Serie A with Juventus. People want to use Cristiano's Euro 2016 win as some kind of coronation of him having 'done it' at the international level when he was pretty much ordinary throughout the tournament with a Portugal side that never should have gotten out of the group stages (and wouldn't have been able to if the rules from previous Euros weren't changed). He didn't even play the final and the Golden Ball went to Griezmann.
Both him and Messi, for as extraordinary as they've been throughout their careers, are seriously lacking on the international side, not even one knock-out goal in a WC in all of their careers and being penalty takers is pretty astounding.
Ronaldo joined Man United in 2003 when United had just won the PL the season before and were still the 2nd/3rd best team in England after that and were no slouches, managed by the GOAT and spending big in the transfer windows still.
Real Madrid were the biggest and most successful club in the world before Ronaldo joined and won La Liga 2 seasons in a row when Ronaldo joined while also spending a lot of money the season he joined and all the seasons there after.
Juventus had won Serie A 7 seasons in a row before they signed Ronaldo.
Please tell me how it was a challenge and that he proved himself? Choosing to join the league champions in their country for every transfer is not exactly a difficult challenge when the team is already the best in the league.
Guess you're from the US, correct?
Basketball is hardly even relevant in most of the world. I don't even know a German basketball player apart from Nowitzki and the one reason I knew Jordan as a kid is called Space Jam. How can an athelete of a sport only the US really cares about be the biggest sports star in history?
Jordan is the biggest brand, that's true, but that has more to do with the US market and it's affinity towards testimonials and advertising than his popularity among the world. I'm relatively sure that more Europeans and South Americans would recognize the face of Maradona or Pele than his.
I get the point but at least he has made those moves. Pep is a good comparison here - he's moved to 'easy' jobs because he's seen as the best manager so you'd hardly expect him to move to Arsenal or Valencia, he will always go to rich teams with a very good chance of winning the league. The criticisms Guardiola faces is that his best team was his Barca team and he's never got close to that in the many years since, he;s hardly been unsuccessful but, especially in Europe, he's under performed in many people's eyes. Extrapolate that to your point on Ronaldo, moving to some of the best teams in the league and you see the difference, take a look at his trophy cabinet - he's absolutely cleaned up.
Criticise him for going to big clubs if he then doesn't win things but he has won literally everything bar a WC. I get he's not very likeable but don't knock him for making sensible transfers if he's still smashing records after making them.
I'm from the U.K.! So that doesn't standup. MJ's cultural impact and reach isn't just a US thing. I just don't see how you can argue Maradona is a bigger cultural icon than Michael Jordan. Pele I'd agree with as being interchangeable in terms of being the bigger sporting 'star', along with Muhammad Ali.
Perhaps you’re right, but the strength of the league in this comparison is subsidised by Ronaldo’s age. Therefore, although those guys played in a stronger Serie A; they at least played in it during their physical prime while Ronaldo has come well into his 30s.
I have very little doubt that a prime CR7 would score more than 25 Serie A goals during the time Del Piero, Baggio, Ibra, etc played in the league. In fact, prime Cristiano would most likely break the all-time Serie A record for a single season not just Juve’s.
Yeah but I think Juve are historically a low scoring team. It’s almost in their DNA to prioritise defensive solidity over attacking fluidity.
Actually when he joined United, they had just won the league but were third best team in the following 2 seasons. Abromavich had just bought Chelsea and was seemingly establishing a dynasty. Chelsea were completely dominant in the following two years after CR’s acquisition and United were almost seen as being in a transitional period. United reclaiming the throne as the best in England coincided with CR’s meteoritic rise to being the best in the world after the 2006 WC. Once Ronaldo arrived at that level, it was no coincidence United went on to win almost everything in the succeeding 3 years.
When he joined Real Madrid he took a step down as they were in a rebuilding phase and competing against the best Barca side of all-time. So it was essentially a challenge as they were inferior to United as of when he moved.
He’s done the same again with Juve despite their previous domestic success. He took a step down from a high flying Madrid side that had just done the European 3-peat to a team that is clearly inferior in quality and in semi-transition (old squad) and one with far less attacking impetus to what he became acclimated to in Spain.
So his last 2 moves have been challenges and a push from his comfort zone.
So ultimately every time Ronaldo has transferred in his career, he’s moved to a worse team EXCEPT for when he transferred from Sporting to United.
In terms of celebrity and wealth, sure. In terms of actual sport it's Gretzky by a massive margin.
Great response.
Ronaldo’s impact for both club and country has been greater then Messi’s
For all of Messi greatness there is just a “what if” because he played in his prime for the greatest team in the history of the sport. A team where he has played in same system same everything since he was a fetus.
The only time we have seen him out of Barca is in Argentina and although he is still world class they are VERY different players. He can’t lift Argentina the same way Ronaldo has lifted Portugal and made them constant qualifiers and contenders all because of his impact.
Literally you can’t even debate international careers because Ronaldo’s is much superior.
At the club level Ronaldo has won it all for multiple clubs not just once. How can something like that even be challenged?
Also Let’s say he hypnotically wins the CL with Juve as well at that point there will be no way in hell Messi can ever catch Ronaldo as the greatest player.
The debate for me peaked all the way over to Ronaldo’s side once he won a major international trophy for his country.
They were equals at club level for years and the analysts of the world always said the tie breaker would be who wins an international trophy. Yet Messi fans hung on to everything to keep the debate alive. Also the same time he won the Euro he was in the midst of a CL 3 peat.
Ronaldo has done that. He has won it all in both club and country.
1 more CL for Ronaldo and the chapter of “Messi Vs Ronaldo” officially comes to a close.
Because we ALL know if Messi has Ronaldo’s resume this debate would not even be going on.
He moved from United to Madrid when United were better than Madrid and moved from Madrid to Juve when Madrid were a better team than Juve. How is it a challenge? How is it not? He had it tougher both times he moved and would have had it easier if he had stayed both times.
Juve didn't buy him to just win the league more. To move at 33 to continue internal dominance in Italy at a time where the competition is increasing (Juve needed a miracle to win the league the season before he arrived) and try to win in Europe with all the pressure on his shoulders when they haven't done so for 25 years... he's playing CL quarterfinals with the likes of Moise Kean, Emre Can, Bernardeschi and Rugani but it's no harder than to do it with the Madrid team that had a much better squad??
Winning the CL at Juve would be the biggest accomplishment of his club career and he's gone there to try to do it well into his thirties. How can anyone believe that's not a challenge?
Barca had won the treble when Ronaldo went to Madrid... Saying that he moved to the best team in the league when he went from United to Madrid is so wrong, I'm going to assume you got your years wrong.
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They don't like it when you speak with common sense.
They are so bitter to accept the fact that Ronaldo passed Messi years ago.
At one point it seemed like Messi would not be caught but Ronaldo is a different animal to what we have seen in football before.
This is rubbish. Moving to the best/2nd best team in the league is not a challenge.
Man United also had Rooney, Evra, Vidic, Ferdinand, Carrick all in their prime. It coincided with Ronaldo peaking. It’s no coincidence that the same team with Valencia instead of Ronaldo still won league titles and got to 2 more CL finals. Regarding the CL win with CR we were also lucky that we played Chelsea, and not the prime Barca that whooped us twice in finals.
You say Real Madrid bought Ronaldo to beat the mighty Barca to the title yet they literally won 2 league titles in 9 years so you could argue he failed in the main task he was bought for. Yes he went on to win multiple CL’s with them but thats not what you said they originally bought him for. The fact is in 9 years Real Madrid failed domestically regardless of all of Ronaldo’s achievements.
We don’t even need to talk about Juve.
It’s ok you keep deluding yourself.
The irony hear is funny.
If that's not a challenge then what in the hell has Messi ever done in his career thats a challenge? Is playing with the core of the most dominant national team in history a challenge? Or is choking and then quitting on your national team a challenge as well?
- Before Ronaldo United were not as dominant and managed to win a CL again because of him
- Madrid had not made it past the R16 before Ronaldo and went on to win 4 more with him along with a 3 peat
- Before Ronaldo Portugal 1). Barely qualified for major tournaments and 2.) never won a major trophy. With him 3 Finals 2 wins 1 loss and 3 semi final appearances.
- Moves to Juve at 34 when he could of played it easy and stayed in Madrid but instead moves to a worse team to seek a new challenge and is breaking records left right and center
From 88-04 Serie A had 18 teams, but it has been a long time coming
Yeah, you two seem like the epitome of common sense when it comes to CR7. It's just weird most neutrals don't seem to agree with you. I guess we're all bitter.
What ? United werent as dominant before him ? You wanna check untieds trophy haul from 1990 - 2003 if thats not dominant i dont know what is.
He went to madrid at 2009 they didnt win a cl until 5 years later. 5 years. That doesnt paint the picture you are making where he went in and they suddenly won the cl. Even after he signed it took years and hundreds of millions to win it again.
You are making it sound like wining the league title is everything while winning multiple CL trophies are just Mickey cup no one cares...
That should then indicate to you that he transferred to a team significantly inferior to the United side he had just left.
In his final two seasons in England he played in back-to-back CL finals - winning one.
In Spain, he never sniffed another final for 5 years.
He was almost basically starting from scratch with that Madrid side as they were being eliminated in the RO16 of the CL for several consecutive seasons before he joined and were even eliminated at the same stage by Lyon in his first season.
Remaining at United would have been considerably more secure as they were by far the #1 team in England and would have kept on being so with a peak Cristiano Ronaldo within their ranks. He probably helps them past Bayern and possibly a CL final in 2010 & then helps them further in 2011 when they made the final yet again.
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Just to correct you, they did not win the league when he joined, in fact, they finished 9 points below Barca (and lost 2-6 against them). They also got eliminated in 1/4th of the final in every season since 2003-2004. They got eliminated from Liverpool with a result of 5-0.
They were a total mess.
1/16th*
Basically lost in the first knockout round every single time, think Lyon eliminated them thrice including that first season in 09/10.
It’s so frustrating how these threads go, either trying to diminish the importance of a landmark or record or bringing up another player to compare said achievement too.
Its not about how much stronger Série A might have been beforehand, and I don’t care that Messi never left Barcelona. To do what he has done at 35 years old is remarkable, it really is.
We have just got so used to this kind of thing that it doesn’t have any real impact anymore, but it’s phenomenal.
So many players in their prime have jumped leagues and, for any number of reasons, their performances have tanked. It’s not an easy transition and can derail careers.
To do what he has done is amazing at his age. It really is. He is a really special player and an incredible competitor.
Messi is too, but that’s got nothing to do with this thread.
Its not about how much stronger Série A might have been beforehand, and I don’t care that Messi never left Barcelona. To do what he has done at 35 years old is remarkable, it really is.
We have just got so used to this kind of thing that it doesn’t have any real impact anymore, but it’s phenomenal.
So many players in their prime have jumped leagues and, for any number of reasons, their performances have tanked. It’s not an easy transition and can derail careers.
To do what he has done is amazing at his age. It really is. He is a really special player and an incredible competitor.
Messi is too, but that’s got nothing to do with this thread.
Actually, it was on 1/8th. We met in the middle.
Yep, they lost that year he went there. Since then, I believe they won it 4 times, and reached semis in every other season.
Since Madrid sacked De Bosque (symbolic end of the Galactico 1 era) their UCL results were:
2003-2004: eliminated from Monaco in away goals (quarter finals)
2004-2005: eliminated from Juventus 1-2 (1/8th of finals)
2005-2006: eliminated from Arsenal 1-0 (1/8th of finals)
2006-2007: eliminated from Bayern in away goals (1/8th of finals)
2007-2008: eliminated from Roma 4-2 (1/8th of finals)
2008-2009: eliminated from Liverpool 5-0 (1/8th of finals) -> probably their lowest point in many decades
Ronaldo signs
2009-2010: eliminated from Lyon 2-1 (1/8th of finals)
2010-2011: eliminated from Barcelona 3-1 (semi-final) yipes, they finally won a KO tie
2011-2012: eliminated from Bayern in penalties (semi-final)
2012-2013: eliminated from Dortmund 4-3 (semi-final, Ronaldo is top scorer in the tournament)
2013-2014: WON, Ronaldo is top scorer
2014-2015: Eliminated from Juventus 3-2 (semi final, Ronaldo is joined top scorer)
2015-2016: WON, Ronaldo is top scorer with all-time record
2016-2017: WON, Ronaldo is top scorer
2017-2018: WON, Ronaldo is top scorer
Ronaldo leaves
2018-2019: Eliminated from Ajax 5-3 (1/8th of final)
2019-2020: Lost the first tie at home 1-2 from Man City (1/8th of finals)
Obviously, Ronaldo was not the only factor there, after all it is a home game, but the record with Ronaldo and without Ronaldo (both before and after) is arguably the most different it has ever been in the history of a club/player. It is absurd how good and consistent they were when he was there, how bad they were before, and how bad they became after.
Saying that him putting Madrid to the top was not a challenge cause Madrid were always great, is plain lie. It isn't even not telling the entire truth, it is just lying for the sake of propagating whatever agenda is there.
Yes I got the year wrong, however they did win 2 out of 3 league titles in the 3 years prior to him joining, so it wasn’t like they were struggling in the league.
Please could you stop talking about Messi in the Ronaldo thread. I haven’t once said anything about Ronaldo compared to Messi, I am talking about this myth that Ronaldo has challenged himself.
No I never said that, winning the CL multiple times is a fantastic achievement and probably the best tournament in the world, (some would argue the WC), but many teams have won it while not even being the best team in their league.
Ronaldo was brought in to help topple Barcelona domestically and only managed it twice. It took him a while to help Real win the CL and it coincided with the rest of the team peaking. Juve won’t win the CL with Ronaldo and Real are about to win the league without him so you can see it’s not always about Ronaldo bringing the success.
Big goals in the CL latter stages from Ramos and Bale and massive team performances were also a factor in the CL wins. Yes Ronaldo was a huge part of this success but he wasn’t the only player to put up big game winning performances.
This is what always happens in this thread, extreme Messi fans have to come in and try to belittle Ronaldo. They should be threadbanned as there's already a Ronaldo vs Messi thread.
It's an inferiority complex. They know that Messi will never be as sumptuously aqualine and hardonly oiled as our definitely not bisexual win machine.
I’m sick of the endless ronaldo v Messi debate. Can we not enjoy the twilight of their careers now and debate it when all is done?
If those Madrid teams that won the league in 2007 and 2008 played against the Barcelona teams Ronaldo played against they wouldn't have won anything so why is that relevant?
Barcelona points total in the 3 seasons before Ronaldo went to Madrid: 76, 67, 87
Barcelona points total in the 9 seasons Ronaldo was at Madrid: 99, 96, 91, 100, 87, 94, 91, 90, 93
Barcelona points total in the 2 seasons since Ronaldo left Madrid (if they win all their remaining games this year): 87, 85
Your point makes sense only if you're not aware of any context.
For an 18 year old to come to Manutd and do what he done is a challenge. Can you name me the last time a Manutd player won the Ballon D'or? Can you remind me before and after how well Manutd done in the CL?
He went to Madrid during a rebuild and broke all records, fighting against one of the best ever footballing teams in Barcelona and going toe to toe against one of the greatest footballers (Messi) ever.
For Ronaldo just to do what he done, to challenge Messi for so many years shows what he has actually achieved.
Going to Juventus was to win the CL.
My point was that he still joint a good team, they were 2nd best in LL when he joined and remained 2nd best throughout his stint.But he didn’t exactly join a mid table team did he.They were still a top team.
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