Cristiano Ronaldo - Much Ado About Al Nassr

[cafecillos]

Not if you're Portugal. In those three matches combined their goalkeeper had to make one save total. Goal difference 36-2, 9 clean sheets, 0 goals conceded away from home tells a story of a Q-group that was the opposite of hard. Probably one of the easiest Q-groups ever. The one game Ronaldo didn't play they won 9-0 against 3rd placed Luxembourg...

FIFA rankings and squad values ():
Portugal 6 (EUR 921M) - 15 players worth 40M or more, 23 players from the top 5 leagues, 14 players from giant clubs: City (3), Bayern (1), Barca (2), PSG (4), Liverpool (1), Man United (2) or Milan (1)... )
Slovakia 50 (EUR 167M) - 2 players worth 40M or more - 5 players playing in the top 5 leagues (including 2 backup keepers for Fulham and Newcastle) and only 2 starting players, 2 players from giant clubs: Napoli (1) and PSG (1).
Bosnia 63 (EUR 86M) - 4 player playing in the top 5 leagues, 1 player from big club: Milan (1)
Iceland 67 (EUR 40M) - 3 players playing in top 5 leagues, 0 players from big clubs.
Luxembourg 87 (EUR 30M) - 2 players playing in the top 5 leagues, 0 from big clubs.
Liechtenstein 200 (EUR 1M) - 0 players from top 5 leagues...

Job well done, but also expected.

Can't really do much else than applaud that.

 

[Mike Smalling]

Why would anyone want to downplay Ronaldo's achievements for the national team? +200 caps and +125 goals is an insane achievement in itself, and he has a European Championship and Nations League on top of that. Portugal isn't Germany, France, Spain, Brazil or Argentina, they are a tier below, so getting these tournaments wins is not a given at all.

 

[Gehrman]

Won't be remembered outside of Portugal as an international footballer of any legendary note, possibly not even the sublime note, or the excellent note, maybe in the very very good note and waved his hands around in the Euro 2016 final note.

He was a key player in their euro win though. Can't hold it against him that he got injured in the final. Still he hasn't had a iconic euros or wc though where he was clearly the best performer despite playing in so many editions far more than many great players. Essentially in more recent memory Griezmann, Forlan, Modric, James, Mpabbe, Robben and Modric have had greater tournaments. Nevermind Platini's one iconic Euro.

 

[JogaBonitoRooney]

every big striker for every big nation just bucketing goals, Lukaku, Kane later on, Ronaldo and Messi themselves, Lewandowski, Mbappe now, Suarez, Cavani etc etc etc

Huh? They're simply playing more games compared to previous generations.

You could add David Villa, RVP, Neymar and Giroud to that list too. All top scorers for their country.

All these players have good goals to games ratio but nothing crazy. There's just more international games now.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Won't be remembered outside of Portugal as an international footballer of any legendary note, possibly not even the sublime note, or the excellent note, maybe in the very very good note and waved his hands around in the Euro 2016 final note.

Yes, but don't forget what he's done in South Armenia. He'll be remembered there, and rightly so.

 

[Remember the geese]

that's why ratios matter.

Hardly. The players you compare him to were all natural born centre forwards. Not a skinny, tricky winger.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

He was a key player in their euro win though. Can't hold it against him that he got injured in the final. Still he hasn't had a iconic euros or wc though where he was clearly the best performer despite playing in so many editions far more than many great players. Essentially in more recent memory Griezmann, Forlan, Modric, James, Mpabbe, Robben and Modric have had greater tournaments.

They have. But they probably won't be remembered for them.

 

[Baneofthegame]

Are you saying that playing for United 03-09 (PL champions 3 times and CL champion 1 time (finalist 2 times) and had won the PL 8 out of the last 11 years before he arrived), Real Madrid 09-18 (the Galacticos, champions every 2nd year, scoring 100+ goals in LaLiga every season he was there, no club has more european trophies etc.) and Juventus 18-21 (won 7 straight scudettos before he arrived) is comparable to playing for Chelsea 21-22 (He had 0 starts for Chelsea in 11-12) comming off a 67 point season (scoring 58 goals total) in the PL and a fluky CL win, Inter (hadn't won a trophy in 10 years when he arrived) and us 17-19 (we haven't been even romotely close to dominate anything the last 10 years) ?
Lukaku scored 17 and assisted 7 in 2002 minutes in the PL for West Brom as a teenager, he scored 87 and assisted 29 in 4 seasons at Everton.

Ronaldo's numbers would look very different had he followed Lukaku's club path......How many goals would Ronaldo get in that West Brom team?
As great as he is, he's had the privilege of playing in some of the best and most dominating teams and squads in football history. That cannot be said for the clubs Lukaku's played for.

Lukaku is underrated, but I don't think he's anywhere near Ronaldo of course. Comparing their club careers and numbers is still silly though, because Lukaku's working conditions has been a lot tougher throughout his career. It is a bit funny that his numbers (goals/90 ratio) with the National team is so much better than Ronaldo's though.

Would be cool to see what Lukaku or Kane's numbers and legacies would look like if they were the main man at RM from 09-18....

Pretty disingenuous post, most of the best players of all time play for dominating squads.

Lukaku himself has hardly been playing for West Brom his whole career and has been the main man at whichever team he has been at since.

Maybe we should discount the years Ronaldo played off the wing?

Perhaps we should wonder if Messi would have had the same sort of stats had he played for Stoke his whole career?

What if Kane got to play for prime Barcelona?

 

[Pronewbie]

Kane, Haaland, Lukaku have better per game ratios with the national team than Ronaldo (0.6 per game).
Lukaku scored more goals for Belgium than Pele, R9, Romario for Brazil, Batistuta for Argentina, the magic of Euro qualifiers.

Gerd Muller scored 68 goals in 62 games when there were no Andorra, Faroe, Gibraltar, Azerbaijan, San Marino, Liechtenstein, former USSR teams and many other minnows.

Ronnie played LW/RW till his early - mid 20s. Additionally, this was not an era where top wingers are expected to bag you 20+ goals a season.

 

[Gehrman]

They have. But they probably won't be remembered for them.

Maybe not in the Pelé, Maradona, Platini, Cryuff, Müller and yes i will just throw him in, Messi sense. But i certaintly remember them but of course not as legends of international tournaments.

 

[Donaldo]

Yes, but don't forget what he's done in South Armenia. He'll be remembered there, and rightly so.

I think his work in Lawrence of Arabia was particularly excellent.

 

[DJ Jeff]

Ronnie played LW/RW till his early - mid 20s. Additionally, this was not an era where top wingers are expected to bag you 20+ goals a season.

Ronaldo single handedly started that as a thing. Before him there were no Salahs, no Mbappes, no Griezmanns. I actually wonder if a wide forward ever scored 35 in a season before Ronaldo did it.

 

[Gehrman]

Ronaldo single handedly started that as a thing. Before him there were no Salahs, no Mbappes, no Griezmanns. I actually wonder if a wide forward ever scored 35 in a season before Ronaldo did it.

Well George Best scored 32. So close. I can remember Best in an interview explaining his role and it was precisely the same as Ronnie in 2007/2008.

 

[Pronewbie]

Well George Best scored 32. So close. I can remember Best in an interview explaining his role and it was precisely the same as Ronnie in 2007/2008.

Just like how Best scintilated and defied expectations in his era, Ronaldo did the same (and more). I just find it funny how people (especially United fans) forget what an amazing winger Ronnie was for a large part of his career.

 

[Rojow]

Why would anyone want to downplay Ronaldo's achievements for the national team? +200 caps and +125 goals is an insane achievement in itself, and he has a European Championship and Nations League on top of that. Portugal isn't Germany, France, Spain, Brazil or Argentina, they are a tier below, so getting these tournaments wins is not a given at all.

It is now. It was much difficult in the past. Now it's not and Portugal is one of the most skilled nations in football at least with the current team. They will keep getting into big tournaments when Ronaldo retires, because there are more places.

And it's true we have a lot more matches today. If someone like Eusebio or Gerd Muller played in todays calendar, they would have lots of more goals.

 

[DJ Jeff]

Well George Best scored 32. So close. I can remember Best in an interview explaining his role and it was precisely the same as Ronnie in 2007/2008.

That's true. Now that has me wondering if any other winger in Best's era (or the decade or two after) ever hit 30, cause I can't think of any who did.

 

[Gehrman]

Just like how Best scintilated and defied expectations in his era, Ronaldo did the same (and more). I just find it funny how people (especially United fans) forget what an amazing winger Ronnie was for a large part of his career.

I certainty havnt forgotten.

 

[Gehrman]

That's true. Now that has me wondering if any other winger in Best's era (or the decade or two after) ever hit 30, cause I can't think of any who did.

Probably not tbh. No one comes to mind.

 

[Red the Bear]

Reading this thread you'd think Lukaku was better than Ronaldo.

Getting Hilarious to be honest, it's bizarre.

 

[Acrobat7]

Getting Hilarious to be honest, it's bizarre.

I think it was mainly about contextualising his achievements with the national team. At national team level, his longevity is his almost his biggest asset. It's nearly a USP. Others have played (significantly) better tournaments, many score comparable or better. But he has played the most games and, like other current players, has the great advantage of often being able to keep his stats up against cannon fodder. This does not diminish his ability as a footballer. He is obviously one of the best strikers.

 

[Joel Miller]

It’s a curious thing observing the anger and frustration that’s vented any time anyone contextualises his international record or dares to mention that he’s played a massive number of games more than the average attacker (and is still doing so almost exclusively for the sake of his own tally; which will come back to bite his side when the real show starts, because let’s be honest, the stronger sides will take care of Ronaldo without too much problem).

Curiously enough I never see anyone waxing lyrical about Lukaku’s record for Belgium. If someone did that then the same sorts of people angry at others for contextualising Ronaldo’s record would no doubt suddenly want to note the strength of sides the Belgian had scored against, or how many games he’s played and all that jazz.

 

[troylocker]

WC is really a small size sample for making such claim. Its like taking less than 0.1% of the total goals/games played back in those time, which makes it really negligible when we are comparing general stats of the games across eras.

Well obviously its difficult to compare how big the difference was between those past eras and now. But I have seen more strikers getting ridiculous high goal ratio back then as compared to modern times. I think this says something.

Do you think it's a far stretch to claim Muller has been better at WC's and EURO's than Ronaldo?

Muller:
WC: 14 goals (1 penalty) and 6 assists in 13 games - 1 gold and 1 bronze in 2 championships
EURO: 4 goals in 2 games - 1 gold (strange 4 team format) in one championship.
West Germany scored 35 goals in those 15 games (2,33 goals/game) and Muller was directly involved in 24 out of their 35 goals (69%)
He also scored or assisted in every KO game he played for West Germany.

CR7:
WC: 8 goals (3 penalties) and 2 assists in 22 games - best finish 4th place - 0 goals or assists in 8 KO games in 5 WCs
EURO: 14 goals (3 penalties) and 9 assists in 24 games - 1 gold and 1 silver - in 5 EUROs
Portugal scored 71 goals in those 46 games (1,54 goals/game) and Ronaldo was directly involved in 33 out of their 71 goals (46%)

Muller scored more non penalty goals in WC and EURO in 15 games (17) than Ronaldo has done in 46 games (16).

You are right that West Germany scored more goals per game in the big championships in the early 70's than Portugal has in 21st century though.
There weren't many others than Muller putting up rediculous numbers in the late 60s and early 70s though. The 20's, 30's, 40's, 50's and early 60's was different, but it was also different form country to country though. Pele (Santos scored on avg. between 3,5-4,5 goals in the Paulista in the late 50s and early 60s and had double digit hauls on multiple occasions in the league in that period) and many others had great working conditions in semi professional leagues. Peyroteo scored 332 goals in 197 games in the Portoguese top flight and 544 goals in 334 games in all comps between 1937-1950....(an average game in the Primeira back then had 5+ goals)

Playing for dominant, high scoring teams is also a very important factor for putting up huge numbers though.
Barcelona and Real Madrid between 2008-2018, Bayern 2017-2023, City 2017-2023 and PSG 2015-2023 has provided the best working conditions a goalscorer could have in the last 60 years. Real Madrid and Barca has both had seasons above 3 goals per game, while the others between 2,5-3 goals per game. Bayern has scored 3,82 goals per game so far this season so be prepared for a potential record season from them and or Kane.

 

[cyberman]

Are you saying that playing for United 03-09 (PL champions 3 times and CL champion 1 time (finalist 2 times) and had won the PL 8 out of the last 11 years before he arrived), Real Madrid 09-18 (the Galacticos, champions every 2nd year, scoring 100+ goals in LaLiga every season he was there, no club has more european trophies etc.) and Juventus 18-21 (won 7 straight scudettos before he arrived) is comparable to playing for Chelsea 21-22 (He had 0 starts for Chelsea in 11-12) comming off a 67 point season (scoring 58 goals total) in the PL and a fluky CL win, Inter (hadn't won a trophy in 10 years when he arrived) and us 17-19 (we haven't been even romotely close to dominate anything the last 10 years) ?
Lukaku scored 17 and assisted 7 in 2002 minutes in the PL for West Brom as a teenager, he scored 87 and assisted 29 in 4 seasons at Everton.

Ronaldo's numbers would look very different had he followed Lukaku's club path......How many goals would Ronaldo get in that West Brom team?
As great as he is, he's had the privilege of playing in some of the best and most dominating teams and squads in football history. That cannot be said for the clubs Lukaku's played for.

Lukaku is underrated, but I don't think he's anywhere near Ronaldo of course. Comparing their club careers and numbers is still silly though, because Lukaku's working conditions has been a lot tougher throughout his career. It is a bit funny that his numbers (goals/90 ratio) with the National team is so much better than Ronaldo's though.

Would be cool to see what Lukaku or Kane's numbers and legacies would look like if they were the main man at RM from 09-18....

Yea, I’m saying those great sides were, in large part, great because Ronaldo played for them. Meanwhile Lukaku is turfed out of every club he joins because he simply isn’t good enough.
It’s a bad habit that people have in thinking you have to be in a top team to get a lot of chances, that’s simply not true
The fact Lukaku is even brought into this shows a lot if you are lost in the weeds. The sheer number of goals and achievements means you have to somehow disqualify 2/3 of his goals to make approaching 900 seem somewhat normal

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

It’s a curious thing observing the anger and frustration that’s vented any time anyone contextualises his international record or dares to mention that he’s played a massive number of games more than the average attacker (and is still doing so almost exclusively for the sake of his own tally; which will come back to bite his side when the real show starts, because let’s be honest, the stronger sides will take care of Ronaldo without too much problem).

It's because the context is often misleading and/or incomplete.

 

[troylocker]

Yea, I’m saying those great sides were, in large part, great because Ronaldo played for them. Meanwhile Lukaku is turfed out of every club he joins because he simply isn’t good enough.
It’s a bad habit that people have in thinking you have to be in a top team to get a lot of chances, that’s simply not true
The fact Lukaku is even brought into this shows a lot if you are lost in the weeds. The sheer number of goals and achievements means you have to somehow disqualify 2/3 of his goals to make approaching 900 seem somewhat normal

Are you saying Real Madrid 09-18 wouldn't be a great team without Ronaldo? ....or Man united 03-09 or Juve 18-21? They were all winners when he arrived and he had WC players around him in every position.

Casillas/Navas
Carvajal - Ramos - Varane/Pepe - Marcelo
Kroos - Casemiro - Modric
Bale - Benzema - ?

That was his main support crew at RM. They won 2 LaLiga's with him in 9 seasons. They've won 2 laLigas and the CL without replacing him or his goals with a new main man since he left.
Here we won 2 out of the next 4 PL titles and played a CL final the very next season after he left and we won everything before he came. Juve had won 7 straight Scudettos and reached 2 CL finals in the the last 4 seasons before he came. That run ended with him at the club. His last stay here was a total dissaster for us.

He's had a unique career and he was a fantastic player and goalscorer, but he was like most other greats, dependent on a world class support crew. He's allways had a better support crew than let's say Lukaku. That's not up for debate.
Lukaku made it hard for himself by being a controversial character and not allways the best professional. I don't think he's close to as good as Ronaldo despite being very underrated, and I didn't bring him up.

I do think any world class forward being the main man at RM from 2009 to 2018 would put up ridiculous numbers though. Same at Barca (Suarez scoring 40, Messi scoring 50), same at Bayern (Lewa scoring 41 in 29 games, Kane with 17 in his first 11), same at PSG (Zlatan 38 goals, Cavani 35 goals, Mbappe 33) and same at City (Haaland 36) with extremely dominant squads providing more chances for their forwards than every other team in their leagues.

Scoring almost 900 career goals is a ridiculous achievement and proves that he's been able to consistantly deliver from the top shelf over a longer period than almost anyone who's ever played the game. That is legendary stuff and he will be rembered a long time for that.

It's a big shame he went the sportswashing way and became a totalitarian regime's toy.

 

[Joel Miller]

It's because the context is often misleading and/or incomplete.

That’s a fair point really. But is it misleading in this context? I think the constant talk of his international goalscoring exploits is slightly misleading. It definitely doesn’t give you an image of a man who’s played around 100 games more than the average attacker, who’s really weighed in heavily against sides that are cannon fodder (to be polite about it), particularly in this late stage, or that he’s never really had any standout international tournament in his entire career which his lack of having won a player of the tournament award will attest to. These are important details but his most diehard fans just don’t ever want them to be mentioned or discussed.

The fact that guys like Lukaku have a better ratio just won’t sit right with people because they don’t idolise Lukaku (in fact he’s a villain on here) and a player with less talent having a ratio like that doesn’t fit well with the image people want to create as Ronaldo being this monster on the international scene. Similarly any mention of his shocking lack of knockout goals in this tournaments is also met with anger and frustration. I think he’s got the most extreme set of fans football had seen, we’ve got a guy who bumps the thread any time he scores against some unknown side in a dire league nobody watches!

 

[cyberman]

Are you saying Real Madrid 09-18 wouldn't be a great team without Ronaldo? ....or Man united 03-09 or Juve 18-21? They were all winners when he arrived and he had WC players around him in every position.

Casillas/Navas
Carvajal - Ramos - Varane/Pepe - Marcelo
Kroos - Casemiro - Modric
Bale - Benzema - ?

That was his main support crew at RM. They won 2 LaLiga's with him in 9 seasons. They've won 2 laLigas and the CL without replacing him or his goals with a new main man since he left.
Here we won 2 out of the next 4 PL titles and played a CL final the very next season after he left and we won everything before he came. Juve had won 7 straight Scudettos and reached 2 CL finals in the the last 4 seasons before he came. That run ended with him at the club. His last stay here was a total dissaster for us.

He's had a unique career and he was a fantastic player and goalscorer, but he was like most other greats, dependent on a world class support crew. He's allways had a better support crew than let's say Lukaku. That's not up for debate.
Lukaku made it hard for himself by being a controversial character and not allways the best professional. I don't think he's close to as good as Ronaldo despite being very underrated, and I didn't bring him up.

I do think any world class forward being the main man at RM from 2009 to 2018 would put up ridiculous numbers though. Same at Barca (Suarez scoring 40, Messi scoring 50), same at Bayern (Lewa scoring 41 in 29 games, Kane with 17 in his first 11), same at PSG (Zlatan 38 goals, Cavani 35 goals, Mbappe 33) and same at City (Haaland 36) with extremely dominant squads providing more chances for their forwards than every other team in their leagues.

Scoring almost 900 career goals is a ridiculous achievement and proves that he's been able to consistantly deliver from the top shelf over a longer period than almost anyone who's ever played the game. That is legendary stuff and he will be rembered a long time for that.

It's a big shame he went the sportswashing way and became a totalitarian regime's toy.

look at Madrid before he arrived and after he left. Look at those lack of goals from midfield, the fact he burdened himself with scoring 3/4 players worth of goals to cover an awful lot of flaws. Sure United and Madrid had someone step up for one great season after but that’s all they were.
It’s ridiculous that this is even an argument. Ronaldo has almost matched Lukakus international record from 30 years old onwards alone. I dont give a shit what ratio stat says otherwise, these records aren’t normal to compare
It’s Morata is one of the most clinical strikers in the premier league if you analyse minutes per game level bullshit that we had to suffer though a few seasons ago
Benzema was at Madrid during that period, what was his numbers at the time?
There was a stat one time (I’m paraphrasing) that when Ronaldo reached 300 odd goals for Madrid he could have went another 300 not scoring and still have a better goals to game ratio than Raul.
It’s madness that this is even being discussed. This player had had one season with x amount of goals, this other player had one season with c amount of goals.. with Ronaldo you’re talking 13/14 mate.
If picking out random goalposts or dismissing someone being able to be a machine post 30, why not simply choose Ronaldos almost 10 years at Madrid alone and solve all argument? Not a large enough sample sizes of 451 goals in 438 games?(!!!!!!!)

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

That’s a fair point really. But is it misleading in this context? I think the constant talk of his international goalscoring exploits is slightly misleading. It definitely doesn’t give you an image of a man who’s played around 100 games more than the average attacker, who’s really weighed in heavily against sides that are cannon fodder (to be polite about it), particularly in this late stage, or that he’s never really had any standout international tournament in his entire career which his lack of having won a player of the tournament award will attest to. These are important details but his most diehard fans just don’t ever want them to be mentioned or discussed.

The fact that guys like Lukaku have a better ratio just won’t sit right with people because they don’t idolise Lukaku (in fact he’s a villain on here) and a player with less talent having a ratio like that doesn’t fit well with the image people want to create as Ronaldo being this monster on the international scene. Similarly any mention of his shocking lack of knockout goals in this tournaments is also met with anger and frustration. I think he’s got the most extreme set of fans football had seen, we’ve got a guy who bumps the thread any time he scores against some unknown side in a dire league nobody watches!

The issue with 'context' is that it be used as a way to try to pass off value judgments as pure facts. This discussion about ratios is a good example. Ratios can be useful to correct for random differences in games played. But Ronaldo hasn't played 100 more games than the average attacker for random reasons. He's played 100 more games because he's better than the average attacker, and therefore gets selected more. The context you are giving me is asking me to accept premises that I don't agree with.

The comment about 'being weighted heavily against sides that are cannon fodder'... why would it be any other way? You don't play the same teams that often and there aren't that many good teams. You will logically score more against worse teams than better teams (that's what makes them worse), so your goalscoring will be tilted heavily toward 'worse' teams. The only way this can be different is if you're in a confederation like CONMEBOL where you'll play the same teams over and over again, so you'll have lots of chances to face Brazil, Uruguay, et al.

 

[Joel Miller]

The issue with 'context' is that it be used as a way to try to pass off value judgments as pure facts. This discussion about ratios is a good example. Ratios can be useful to correct for random differences in games played. But Ronaldo hasn't played 100 more games than the average attacker for random reasons. He's played 100 more games because he's better than the average attacker, and therefore gets selected more. The context you are giving me is asking me to accept premises that I don't agree with.

The comment about 'being weighted heavily against sides that are cannon fodder'... why would it be any other way? You don't play the same teams that often and there aren't that many good teams. You will logically score more against worse teams than better teams (that's what makes them worse), so your goalscoring will be tilted heavily toward 'worse' teams. The only way this can be different is if you're in a confederation like CONMEBOL where you'll play the same teams over and over again, so you'll have lots of chances to face Brazil, Uruguay, et al.

Regarding the first part, there are more reasons than that. For example he’s being selected right now for the purpose of extending his own goal tally and for his own legacy. Not attempting to bed in another attacker and succumbing to his ego may well come back to bite them when it gets to the real thing and they’re not facing the types of sides that they found in their group. But anyone who thinks a player of equal ability would still be the focal point were their name not Ronaldo, is kidding themselves. Equally any player not named Ronaldo would be bombed out completely after having a completely toxic effect on their World Cup campaign.

Regarding the second point, yes most players will score more goals against cannon fodder, of course that’s true. But I think it’s brought up more because of the sheer percentage of them coupled with his really poor record in knockout games. It’s also brought up when people do these “greatest goalscorers of all time” debates because of course players like Gerd Muller never had the luxury of battering sides like the Faroes, Andorra and Leichtenstein each year, and players like him also didn’t play in an era of so many games. So I think context surrounding his tally is important, because without it, it almost implies he’s one of the greatest international players of all time.

 

[Pronewbie]

Regarding the first part, there are more reasons than that. For example he’s being selected right now for the purpose of extending his own goal tally and for his own legacy. Not attempting to bed in another attacker and succumbing to his ego may well come back to bite them when it gets to the real thing and they’re not facing the types of sides that they found in their group. But anyone who thinks a player of equal ability would still be the focal point were their name not Ronaldo, is kidding themselves. Equally any player not named Ronaldo would be bombed out completely after having a completely toxic effect on their World Cup campaign.

Regarding the second point, yes most players will score more goals against cannon fodder, of course that’s true. But I think it’s brought up more because of the sheer percentage of them coupled with his really poor record in knockout games. It’s also brought up when people do these “greatest goalscorers of all time” debates because of course players like Gerd Muller never had the luxury of battering sides like the Faroes, Andorra and Leichtenstein each year, and players like him also didn’t play in an era of so many games. So I think context surrounding his tally is important, because without it, it almost implies he’s one of the greatest international players of all time.

Oxymoronic concoction of recency bias and rosy retrospection. Football lovers of your ilk only serve to solidify my opinion that Ronaldo and Messi aren't actually respected or cherished as much as they will be in a decade or 2.

 

[MrEleson]

Another golazo tonight.

https://x.com/totalcristiano/status/1728136587245166689?s=46&t=I7L2X1jXcIgzcvdIlQLXIw

I’m now more than corroborated in the belief that he would still be getting his Madrid numbers till this day if he had joined City in 2021 when he was close or if he had just stayed at Madrid in the 1st place.

His career decisions post 2018 have been nothing short of suicidal. Self-sabotage.

 

[SirAF]

867

 

[AshTheBash]

If Messi scored that goal tonight this forum, social media and the press wouldn't shut up about it he would break the internet.. Why doesn't Ronaldo command/demand the same respect? It's sad.. that was GENIUS... so instinctive.. he deserves the plaudits.. his career is coming to an end within the next few years.. people need to enjoy him while you can.. one injury and his career is over... that's all it takes.. so enjoy moments like that.. to still be doing that at 38 is a testament to the man himself and the sacrifices he's made in a world full of temptations his dedication to football hasn't changed no matter how much money he's made etc a lesson and case study to all young footballers

you'd think United fans would have more love for Ronaldo than Messi...a player who has never challenged himself in the Premier League over a player who won us so many trophies.

 

[Zehner]

Another golazo tonight.

https://x.com/totalcristiano/status/1728136587245166689?s=46&t=I7L2X1jXcIgzcvdIlQLXIw

I’m now more than corroborated in the belief that he would still be getting his Madrid numbers till this day if he had joined City in 2021 when he was close or if he had just stayed at Madrid in the 1st place.

His career decisions post 2018 have been nothing short of suicidal. Self-sabotage.

That's a very nice goal.

Anyway, I really don't want to be that guy but suggesting that he'd post his more or less unparalleled Madrid numbers in the EPL of all leagues.. the team he played against has an estimated market value of €17m. It is the ultimate stat padding competition. I don't want to belittle his performances there and I get that some just want to enjoy the last years of their favorite player without others pointing out how shit his league is all the time but when you suggest stuff like this, you ask for counter arguments.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Do you think it's a far stretch to claim Muller has been better at WC's and EURO's than Ronaldo?

Muller:
WC: 14 goals (1 penalty) and 6 assists in 13 games - 1 gold and 1 bronze in 2 championships
EURO: 4 goals in 2 games - 1 gold (strange 4 team format) in one championship.
West Germany scored 35 goals in those 15 games (2,33 goals/game) and Muller was directly involved in 24 out of their 35 goals (69%)
He also scored or assisted in every KO game he played for West Germany.

CR7:
WC: 8 goals (3 penalties) and 2 assists in 22 games - best finish 4th place - 0 goals or assists in 8 KO games in 5 WCs
EURO: 14 goals (3 penalties) and 9 assists in 24 games - 1 gold and 1 silver - in 5 EUROs
Portugal scored 71 goals in those 46 games (1,54 goals/game) and Ronaldo was directly involved in 33 out of their 71 goals (46%)

Muller scored more non penalty goals in WC and EURO in 15 games (17) than Ronaldo has done in 46 games (16).

You are right that West Germany scored more goals per game in the big championships in the early 70's than Portugal has in 21st century though.
There weren't many others than Muller putting up rediculous numbers in the late 60s and early 70s though. The 20's, 30's, 40's, 50's and early 60's was different, but it was also different form country to country though. Pele (Santos scored on avg. between 3,5-4,5 goals in the Paulista in the late 50s and early 60s and had double digit hauls on multiple occasions in the league in that period) and many others had great working conditions in semi professional leagues. Peyroteo scored 332 goals in 197 games in the Portoguese top flight and 544 goals in 334 games in all comps between 1937-1950....(an average game in the Primeira back then had 5+ goals)

Playing for dominant, high scoring teams is also a very important factor for putting up huge numbers though.
Barcelona and Real Madrid between 2008-2018, Bayern 2017-2023, City 2017-2023 and PSG 2015-2023 has provided the best working conditions a goalscorer could have in the last 60 years. Real Madrid and Barca has both had seasons above 3 goals per game, while the others between 2,5-3 goals per game. Bayern has scored 3,82 goals per game so far this season so be prepared for a potential record season from them and or Kane.

Apparently Muller is one of greatest striker of all time so all credits to him, but I am just referring to scoring rate in general among elites strikers back in 50s/60s/70s vs modern era (00s/10s/20s). The defensive awareness/tactics/intensity just isn't on the same level so we will never have apple to apple comparison there.

I mean we have Fontaine who scored 13 goals in 6 games back then in WC (2.17 goals/game), Kocsis scoring 11 goals in 5 games (2.2 goals/games), and Eusebio who scored 9 goals in 6 games (1.5 goals/games). All great goalscorers but this kind of rate just isn't possible in modern era no matter how good you are.

And also, playing at stronger dominated national side will definitely have influence on the numbers/scoring ratio too (ie Klose is all time WC top goalscorer). The sample size is just way too small (few games every 4 years) and just isn't very accurate. Fontaine has highest goal rate while Klose has highest no. of goals in WC, yet both wasn't really even considered among elite strikers in their respective eras.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Another golazo tonight.

https://x.com/totalcristiano/status/1728136587245166689?s=46&t=I7L2X1jXcIgzcvdIlQLXIw

I’m now more than corroborated in the belief that he would still be getting his Madrid numbers till this day if he had joined City in 2021 when he was close or if he had just stayed at Madrid in the 1st place.

His career decisions post 2018 have been nothing short of suicidal. Self-sabotage.

2023 has definitely been good year for him, despite playing at lower level. 48 goals 13 assists in 52 games is crazy numbers for a guy who is already 38 years old. He has been scoring goals everywhere, and quality goals too.

Not sure if he could still get those Madrid numbers in European top league today as it sounds unlikely, but what we do know is that those other top star players who shined in PL/LL/Europe last season aren't getting near to that kind of numbers he is having over there.

 

[Gehrman]

If Messi scored that goal tonight this forum, social media and the press wouldn't shut up about it he would break the internet.. Why doesn't Ronaldo command/demand the same respect? It's sad.. that was GENIUS... so instinctive.. he deserves the plaudits.. his career is coming to an end within the next few years.. people need to enjoy him while you can.. one injury and his career is over... that's all it takes.. so enjoy moments like that.. to still be doing that at 38 is a testament to the man himself and the sacrifices he's made in a world full of temptations his dedication to football hasn't changed no matter how much money he's made etc a lesson and case study to all young footballers

you'd think United fans would have more love for Ronaldo than Messi...a player who has never challenged himself in the Premier League over a player who won us so many trophies.

Ronaldo literally trends on twitter and redcafe everytime he scores a goal. And social media in general. I dont know what you're on about.

 

[Jackal]

That's a very nice goal.

Anyway, I really don't want to be that guy but suggesting that he'd post his more or less unparalleled Madrid numbers in the EPL of all leagues.. the team he played against has an estimated market value of €17m. It is the ultimate stat padding competition. I don't want to belittle his performances there and I get that some just want to enjoy the last years of their favorite player without others pointing out how shit his league is all the time but when you suggest stuff like this, you ask for counter arguments.

Mane, Firminho, Benzema and Neymar are also playing against these teams with €17m estimated value, how come the aforementioned players aren’t topping the scorer’s chart in Saudi?

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

Mane, Firminho, Benzema and Neymar are also playing against these teams with €17m estimated value, how come the aforementioned players aren’t topping the scorer’s chart in Saudi?

They aren’t sad enough to take playing in a Mickey Mouse league seriously.

 

[brunoag4]

Mane, Firminho, Benzema and Neymar are also playing against these teams with €17m estimated value, how come the aforementioned players aren’t topping the scorer’s chart in Saudi?

Because nobody takes the 67th ranked league in the world seriously other than Ronaldo and some of his followers.