Cristiano Ronaldo (I stay)

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RacingClub said:
So what's happened in the past few pages is that someone stated that Ronaldo was a contributing factor to some attacking players poor season.

A poster said

"Ronaldo is the first and only player I’ll ever see being held accountable for other grown players’ performances. I’ve never seen it before and will probably never see it again"

Which is obvious bollox and was countered with examples of Maguire and DeGea who frequently get blamed for the defensive issues.

This turns into people claiming that Ronaldo is being made a scapegoat for Maguires defensive frailties (which didn't happen) to deflect away from legitimate criticisms of Ronaldo's effect on the attacking dynamic :lol:


It's like a (much less serious and frankly hilarious) QANON cult.
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Maguire and De Gea are often blamed for the defence losing poor goals, but I don't think I've ever seen either of them actually blamed for other players' poor performances as such.

There's people that genuinely believe Ronaldo is why players as far apart in the team as Rashford, Shaw and Maguire had such stink bomb seasons last year.
Even though there are loads more valid reasons, such as A massive England tournament hang over, and Rashford actually being poor for 6months before hand too.
Even the lack of a "proper" defensive midfielder meaning Maguire is often facing runners coming from central too.
 
RedRonaldo said:
Err... I don't know how long have you been here, but this is actually the biggest argument made against Ronaldo last season, on his lack of pressing.
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I added Maguires* (so referencing "Maguires defensive frailties") to the part you bolded while you were replying because I realised that I wasn't specific enough originally.

I'm aware of that happening in general (and believe there is a validity if the tactic is a high press) but it wasn't what prompted the discussion today.

What prompted the discussion today was specifically Ronaldo's effect on the forward line.

That argument was twisted to include the defence (IMO) because it's a much easier criticism to dismiss.

And the original "I've never seen a player blamed for others performances" post is obviously ridiculous (Unless you want me to use your "Errr ..I don't know how long you've been here" line in reply)

I don't see much point in engaging in the debate because people are entrenched in their viewpoints and spout absolute nonsense in defense of their view but it's funny to watch from the sidelines.
 
Sandikan said:
Maguire and De Gea are often blamed for the defence losing poor goals, but I don't think I've ever seen either of them actually blamed for other players' poor performances as such.
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Maybe I'm imagining things but I think I've read a lot of posts which have referenced that De Gea makes the CBs look bad because he doesn't show for passes/ have any aerial presence/ isn't vocal enough and that Maguire makes his CB partner look worse because he's so unsure of what Maguire will do next?

Or even that Maguire or the other CBs look poor because of how badly McTominay or Fred play in the CDM position?

From my limited time on here (and in football in general) I thought it's quite common to hear how a player makes those around him look worse? Especially in the central positions.
 
RacingClub said:
Maybe I'm imagining things but I think I've read a lot of posts which have referenced that De Gea makes the CBs look bad because he doesn't show for passes/ have any aerial presence/ isn't vocal enough and that Maguire makes his CB partner look worse because he's so unsure of what Maguire will do next?

Or even that Maguire or the other CBs look poor because of how badly McTominay or Fred play in the CDM position?

From my limited time on here (and in football in general) I thought it's quite common to hear how a player makes those around him look worse? Especially in the central positions.
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There's players working better in certain systems, or with certain players, that's standard day to day stuff. Van Nistelrooy not working as well as Saha at that point in time, despite being an infinitely better striker when comparing top levels.

But Ronaldo is a player that inspires such extremes of opinion, people seem to be going to the level that he's responsible for players' crap form. Even when that form involves players like Maguire having a long lowlights video of not doing the basics right.
Or Rashford having clearly stopped bothering to even pretend to put effort in last season.
 
Sandikan said:
There's players working better in certain systems, or with certain players, that's standard day to day stuff. Van Nistelrooy not working as well as Saha at that point in time, despite being an infinitely better striker when comparing top levels.

But Ronaldo is a player that inspires such extremes of opinion, people seem to be going to the level that he's responsible for players' crap form. Even when that form involves players like Maguire having a long lowlights video of not doing the basics right.
Or Rashford having clearly stopped bothering to even pretend to put effort in last season.
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But yeah, it cuts both ways because the other extreme of opinion is that Ronaldo gets goals, expressed to such a degree that you'd think that is solely responsible for this and never receives a pass from another player, or never has space made by another player making a run, or that no one else ever won back possession to start a move.

You're right, the discussion is hyperbolic, but that's because there are just these deeply entrenched views that, as is the way these days, people are unwilling to let go of or consider an alternative point of view over. The nuances of a team sport where players are dependent on each other performing well and performing their duties gets lost.
 
Sandikan said:
But Ronaldo is a player that inspires such extremes of opinion, people seem to be going to the level that he's responsible for players' crap form.
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But when Ronaldo was in poor form it was blamed on the fullbacks not creating enough from crosses etc people saying that he's feeding off scraps and it was the teams fault for not giving him the ammunition etc so Ronaldo's defenders are as quick to blame his team mates for his poor form as his detractors are to blame him for his team mates performance.
 
We are two weeks away from start of the season and he still hasn't returned back to the club, chilling out in Portugal.

How gullible are people still believing his family issues? I mean if they are really genuine why are there no concrete reports already about it? And what family issue takes almost 4 weeks to resolve. This is getting embarrassing by him.
 
DavelinaJolie said:
But yeah, it cuts both ways because the other extreme of opinion is that Ronaldo gets goals, expressed to such a degree that you'd think that is solely responsible for this and never receives a pass from another player, or never has space made by another player making a run, or that no one else ever won back possession to start a move.

You're right, the discussion is hyperbolic, but that's because there are just these deeply entrenched views that, as is the way these days, people are unwilling to let go of or consider an alternative point of view over. The nuances of a team sport where players are dependent on each other performing well and performing their duties gets lost.
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Yep you're right.
While I go along with the 3rd top scorer, 24 goals etc, I can accept that it wouldn't be 24 goals fewer if he left, there'd be contributions from elsewhere :)

The only thing that really matters is the team's output and progression going forward.
That's why for this season I'm still hoping all this leaving talk ends, he gets his head down and Ten Hag can work a system out with him.

While Martial is looking promising so far, we only have to remember his last 18 months with us pre loan to know he can turn downwards.
Rashford we all know hasn't been great for 18 months either, so the idea of them being 2 key starters is worrying.

So Ronaldo staying, buys us one more year to find that ideal striker for the long term, having lashed the money elsewhere this summer (assuming De Jong eventually comes).
 
He must be banking on a move away.

It's all well and good training in the gym but he is yet to train with ETH, he's not aware of his training methods plus what the boss wants. This sets him back a month if he actually returns.
 
Sandikan said:
Yep you're right.
While I go along with the 3rd top scorer, 24 goals etc, I can accept that it wouldn't be 24 goals fewer if he left, there'd be contributions from elsewhere :)

The only thing that really matters is the team's output and progression going forward.
That's why for this season I'm still hoping all this leaving talk ends, he gets his head down and Ten Hag can work a system out with him.

While Martial is looking promising so far, we only have to remember his last 18 months with us pre loan to know he can turn downwards.
Rashford we all know hasn't been great for 18 months either, so the idea of them being 2 key starters is worrying.

So Ronaldo staying, buys us one more year to find that ideal striker for the long term, having lashed the money elsewhere this summer (assuming De Jong eventually comes).
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In theory yes but he will decline further, for one thing. I read a suggestion he might go back to Portugal, in the absence of offers from top clubs in the ECL, and that wouldn’t surprise me at all. I don’t think we will be much worse off without him.
 
saik said:
We are two weeks away from start of the season and he still hasn't returned back to the club, chilling out in Portugal.

How gullible are people still believing his family issues? I mean if they are really genuine why are there no concrete reports already about it? And what family issue takes almost 4 weeks to resolve. This is getting embarrassing by him.
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The issue is the Ronaldo family does not want to get back to Manchester.
 
genardk said:
as if United that had 3 top 3 finishes in the PL & an FA Cup final & SF in 4 years prior to Ronaldo's arrival was struggling to score. Let's all forget Bruno scored the same number of goals despite playing as a playmaker a season before where United finished PL 2nd.
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By that logic, before Vlahovic/Locatelli/Zakaria joined Juve, the team was winning trophies. They must all be terrible transfers. Before Varane/Sancho joined United, they conceded less and created more. They must also be terrible transfers.
 
phelans shorts said:
Even as somebody who’s very much not keen on the player, yes they are. Even just what we the public know it’s reasonable for them to be on compassionate leave.
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This is why I'm finding it hard to really criticise him for it yet people post stuff about him like he's had nothing to deal with. It's hardly an old event either.

I still don't understand why he initially backed ten Hag and seemed keen on staying right at the end of the season, only to change his mind later.

Maybe he's using the family stuff as an excuse but based on what's known to the public there is a good possibility it's genuine
 
horsechoker said:
This is why I'm finding it hard to really criticise him for it yet people post stuff about him like he's had nothing to deal with. It's hardly an old event either.

I still don't understand why he initially backed ten Hag and seemed keen on staying right at the end of the season, only to change his mind later.

Maybe he's using the family stuff as an excuse but based on what's known to the public there is a good possibility it's genuine
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It's a shame we'll never out the real truth about what's gone on. You can be sure most of these links are pure fabrication.
But he must have got some sort of inkling that a team were ready to go big to bring him in, or it was an incredible overplaying of his hand.
 
horsechoker said:
This is why I'm finding it hard to really criticise him for it yet people post stuff about him like he's had nothing to deal with. It's hardly an old event either.

I still don't understand why he initially backed ten Hag and seemed keen on staying right at the end of the season, only to change his mind later.

Maybe he's using the family stuff as an excuse but based on what's known to the public there is a good possibility it's genuine
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Yeah, there’s enough legitimate sticks to beat him with that there is absolutely no need to stoop as low as that.

If 3 months after a massively traumatic incident somebody just suddenly gets hit with the reality of what they’ve endured, they wouldn’t be the first person. It’s entirely natural for something like that to just not sink in initially.
 
horsechoker said:
Are people being a bit insensitive about the family stuff considering his son died a couple a months ago?
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Yes a lot of comments on the thread are really shameful but we do have some toxic fans sadly.

Its perfectly understandable he is having problems considering what he and his family went through and we have no idea what extent the issues are.

Hopefully Ten Hag is aware
 
Let his arse get intimately involved with the bench this season.
 
Frosty said:
Yeah I am not sure I would be anywhere near ready to return to work after three months.
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True. If he is still grieving or otherwise in a bad way due to the death of his son - and we don’t know that for sure, because it hasn’t been confirmed - then it’s an appalling weight to bear. I hope I never have to.

But to play devil’s advocate somewhat, if that has rendered him incapable of working, then I think he should perhaps have considered the optics whereby, at almost exactly the same time, it was being put about that he wanted to leave the club and his agent, one of the closet people to him in his life, was aggressively offering him out to other clubs and reportedly continues to do so.
 
horsechoker said:
Are people being a bit insensitive about the family stuff considering his son died a couple a months ago?
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The family excuse might be easier to believe if he wasn't desperately whoring himself around Europe's top clubs to escape United
 
horsechoker said:
Are people being a bit insensitive about the family stuff considering his son died a couple a months ago?
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Has Ronaldo ever seemed like one to let a family issue get in the way of his football ?
 
It’s pretty obvious that the reason he’s not back is because he wants out. If Ronaldo was invested in the success of Man Utd and given what we know of his work ethic he would have been the first one through the door. I thought we needed him for one more season but I have a feeling he’ll stink up the place.
 
RedRonaldo said:
Sure, PL itself is a joke for recognising Ronaldo last season as PL best 11. The club is a joke for recognising him as our player of the season too. You are the only one who isn't a joke.
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Say what you want but Ronaldo did not deserve to be in PL best 11, Son did and for many was a candidate for player of the season including his Gary Neville who is a fanboy of Cristiano.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.hi...neville-son-heung-min-player-of-the-year/?amp
Clearly reputation played a big part.

Ronaldo may have scored 18 goals but he was poor for lage stretches of the season.
 
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SungSam7 said:
Think he has basically burned the bridges now, where does he go?

The players are performing well without him, the board will see this, ETH wont feel pressured into playing him considering he basically has said he wants out and we arent good enough for him.

I enjoyed CR7, I was looking forward to this season with him, no hes done it seems unless he changes his attitude and style for the team.
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I very much doubt it, the club knows more about the personal situation than we do. He’ll be back & it won’t be any different.

saik said:
We are two weeks away from start of the season and he still hasn't returned back to the club, chilling out in Portugal.

How gullible are people still believing his family issues? I mean if they are really genuine why are there no concrete reports already about it? And what family issue takes almost 4 weeks to resolve. This is getting embarrassing by him.
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The way that he is seemingly treating the club isn’t ideal nor is it of someone who wants to stay. But, he is far from chilling in portugal. He’s on the training field, training by himself and is in the gym daily. He’s a model professional but he only cares about himself.
 
UnitedSofa said:
I very much doubt it, the club knows more about the personal situation than we do. He’ll be back & it won’t be any different.


The way that he is seemingly treating the club isn’t ideal nor is it of someone who wants to stay. But, he is far from chilling in portugal. He’s on the training field, training by himself and is in the gym daily. He’s a model professional but he only cares about himself.
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Read that back and think about what you've just said
 
RacingClub said:
Yeah but how many POTM awards did Son get?
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Son had a strong case for player of the season awards.
https://www.planetfootball.com/in-d...-of-the-year-golden-boot-stats-goals-assists/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.hi...neville-son-heung-min-player-of-the-year/?amp

Ronaldo's name and the sentiments around his return played a big part in the POTM awards and his inclusion in premier league team of the season. Otherwise he was nowhere near any individual awards.
 
horsechoker said:
This is why I'm finding it hard to really criticise him for it yet people post stuff about him like he's had nothing to deal with. It's hardly an old event either.

I still don't understand why he initially backed ten Hag and seemed keen on staying right at the end of the season, only to change his mind later.

Maybe he's using the family stuff as an excuse but based on what's known to the public there is a good possibility it's genuine
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Bro the guy has his legs open to every top Club Europe whilst on compassionate leave. If he can do that he came come pre season.
 
Brophs said:
True. If he is still grieving or otherwise in a bad way due to the death of his son - and we don’t know that for sure, because it hasn’t been confirmed - then it’s an appalling weight to bear. I hope I never have to.

But to play devil’s advocate somewhat, if that has rendered him incapable of working, then I think he should perhaps have considered the optics whereby, at almost exactly the same time, it was being put about that he wanted to leave the club and his agent, one of the closet people to him in his life, was aggressively offering him out to other clubs and reportedly continues to do so.
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However, devils advocate in return, imagine how much it will effect both parents coming back to Manchester where they went through such a horrible life event.

Nothing can really be ruled out with trauma response like this. The optics are no doubt not good, but there’s also a lot of stigma that comes into a subject like this that makes it impossible to really judge.
 
AndySmith1990 said:
Read that back and think about what you've just said
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It makes total sense.

He'll train his ass off to be ready for the season, being disciplined, getting himself ready for the season (a professional) but he ain't doing it for the benefit of the club, he's doing it for the benefit of himself.....for whatever club that he's at.
 
He did return to playing quite soon after his child loss and finished the season off well. It was the middle period where his touch control and scoring dropped way off. The loss can hit you hard afterwards but from the reports it seems more a Champions League emergency but we don't know for sure. I'm ready to let him go if the reports of looking at every CL club are true.

It can be smoothed over if the PR have something to go on if he stays and does well early on.
 
UnitedSofa said:
It makes total sense.

He'll train his ass off to be ready for the season, being disciplined, getting himself ready for the season (a professional) but he ain't doing it for the benefit of the club, he's doing it for the benefit of himself.....for whatever club that he's at.
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Someone who only cares about themselves in an environment which relies on team work to achieve its goals, cannot be called a model professional. Whether thats football or working in an office. Not to mention he's not even currently at the club doing his job and is instead trying to force a way out. Again, not professional
 
UnitedSofa said:
It makes total sense.

He'll train his ass off to be ready for the season, being disciplined, getting himself ready for the season (a professional) but he ain't doing it for the benefit of the club, he's doing it for the benefit of himself.....for whatever club that he's at.
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Being a professional in this game means preparing and getting ready for the season with your team. This isn't tennis. We've got a new manager trying to implement a whole new way of thinking and playing. We need everyone there pulling in the same direction. Ronaldo is the most highly paid player at the club and is a huge name. He's acting like an unprofessional cock.
 
phelans shorts said:
However, devils advocate in return, imagine how much it will effect both parents coming back to Manchester where they went through such a horrible life event.

Nothing can really be ruled out with trauma response like this. The optics are no doubt not good, but there’s also a lot of stigma that comes into a subject like this that makes it impossible to really judge.
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Can’t really disagree with that. Particularly the returning to where they suffered the loss aspect.
 
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