Out of those scores you had mentioned how many had end up in winning cause?
Cricket World Cup/ICC Champions Trophy Draft - R1 Mani/anant vs Skills/Ijazz17
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Out of those scores you had mentioned how many had end up in winning cause?
You are still missing my point Mani. Like I mentioned in the last sentence in my previous post, if it is not mentioned anywhere in the OP or in the original draft thread, what sort of condition the pitch is going to be in, what is the point of bringing it up ?As far as I am concerned, it appears out of the scope of the discussion of the match since it has not been defined anywhere. That level of hypothetical's can be done to any extent either to favour some of our players or to dismiss some of yours. That's why I am deliberately avoiding discussions which concern it.
Anyways, Skills should be online to continue with the discussions and I don't want to double team.
Unlike other drafts conditions weren't prominent in drafting otherwise some of us might have not put together the eleven we did.
Someone who can perform in all conditions is more valuable player to have though. The strengths or weaknesses of players in specific conditions is fair game for any argument even if they never played in an ICC tournament in similar conditions.
Using that level of logic, players who have had outstanding careers but not so great World Cups or ICC sanctioned tournaments should have been considered during the drafting stage then. Someone like Allan Border has not even been picked by a team. I agree with your first point however. But considering the relatively small sample size on offer, it's not much of a valid data point. Unless you are a Miandad or a Tendulkar, you are obviously only going to see players tested in a few conditions in these tournaments.
People seem to be forgetting what exactly is being given weight-age to in these drafts. I don't understand why that is so hard to understand, especially when it is so easily accepted and followed in the football drafts.
I don't think your comparison is valid. ICC stats/performances are of course the number 1 criteria. But let's say Sachin had only performed in home world cups in 1996 and 2011, and flopped in 1999 and 2003 then it is a negative against him and should be pointed out. Then there are some players who have only played in 1-2 tournaments and that too at similar kind of conditions that did not expose their weaknesses. Are we then to assumer that they are top tier players in this criteria? No. Cricket is not similar to football, context does come into play much more. Players who across multiple ICC tournaments played well in different continents would be top tier players here, followed by traditionally strong players who did exceptionally well in even a single tournament. Players who generally belong in second or third tier or even lower but over performed in a single tournament in specific circumstances are going to be seen in that context only. I mean just look at Trott's numbers that Raees posted. Should we consider him a top middle order pick for this draft on that basis?
Yes, bad draw. I see some other match ups n both teams here could have beaten those teams.
I absolutely agree with your Sachin comment and that is exactly why he is in the top tier of players. Players that have had the longevity in these tournaments and performed across various conditions will always remain top tier. But when it comes to players who have played only 1-2 tournaments, especially in similar conditions, there is no absolute way of telling how they would do in other situations. So, just like you cannot assume they belong in the top tier of players, you cannot dismiss them altogether. Afterall, a player can only perform with what is presented in front of them Crappy. In that context, I don't think it is wise to bring up how the player performed in unfavourable conditions outside these ICC tournaments. Maybe it is indeed a weakness that Player X might have, but like you said, Context matters and the context here has to be respected. My memory is poor but I am sure there are players who have over achieved even in unfavourable conditions in ICC tourneys. How do you judge them then ? It just makes more sense to me to discuss based on what is available and respecting the rules of the drafts. That's my opinion anyways.
I obviously understand that players who performed well in 1-2 tournaments will be treated in tier 2 or tier 3 and to be honest, a huge chunk of the player pool are going to belong here anyways. The obvious differentiator between say a Trott and a De Silva is as you say key performances. Number Padding and stats can easily be exposed if the opposition is arsed enough.
Hard luck Mani and @anant. You genuinely had a very good team and as cliched as it may sound, it is unfortunate that we had to face each other very early on.