Cricket Draft - Interval_Level vs MJJ

[crappycraperson]

Hello and welcome to inaugural match of test cricket draft.

Please keep in mind that The voters are being asked to choose a team that will prevail over a three match series on these respective grounds.

• Eden Gardens, Kolkatta
• Lords, London
• SCG, Sydney

Others Rules

Spoiler

1) The voters would be asked to choose a team that will prevail over a three match series on these respective grounds.

• Eden Gardens, Kolkatta
• Lords, London
• SCG, Sydney

The managers in their tactics can specify as to which player will be dropped for which match.
2) Once the round robins are over, the winner of the group can pick two players from the losing teams in his group to replace two in his team. The winner of semi final can win pick one from his opponent's team.

3) The "NRR" in the group will be decided on the basis of vote differential in the following manner. Suppose total votes cast are 20 and the difference in votes is 4. Then vote differential is 4/20 i.e 0.2. NRR will be used to decide the winner of the group in case of multiple teams having same points. If NRR is also the same, then head to head record will be used. If even that is same then half a day voting will take place over the weekend for an ODI match between the two sides.

4) Voting will be open for 24 hours. KM will be charged with task of making polls.

5) More rules may be added when needed :P

Why I’ll win –
Handle bar moutache

My batting kicks ASS. Averages 35+ all the way till number EIGHT
SIR Viv Richards
Donald and Lillee
Big characters who’ll fight. No insipid wannabes like Akhtar :P
Why MJJ won’t win:
What is that batting going to do? VERY weak openers. Sohail was poor. His openers are dead ducks in foreign conditions – Mohammad average below 30 in India, England and Austalia
Who will make the big innings? My middle order (2-6) has scored ~50% more hundreds in 8% less innings.
Admittedly his bowling as a whole is superior. BUT (1) Gooch, Dilshan, Viv, Yousuf, Malik, Greig can ALL play spin well. (2) My opening bowlers are superior to his (Donald and Lillee vs Akram and Lee/ Akhtar) (3) In India, I’ll play Dilip Doshi in place of Caddick who is a very well respected spinner. I’ll have Doshi and Grieg who’ll bowl spin. (4) In English conditions, my bowling can be arguably better with Donald, Lillee, Cairns, Caddick and Greig. Saqlain may be rendered ineffective at Lords.
Where are his characters? In a three match grueling series, who’ll step up and be counted from his side. Only Akram has that big man, big match character. I have Gooch, Viv, Lillee, and Donald.


Graham Gooch
Considered THE best English batsman of the modern era, TWENTY year career! Averaged 55 between 1980-85 and 50 between 1990-94. 50 as the captain. 45000 First class run, making him the most prolific batsman in history
T Dilshan
Solid opening partner - average 40+. An aggressive batsman to Gooch's stability
Viv Richards
Erm.. Yeah… Amongst the top 2-3 batsman of the modern era. Named interchangably with Sachin
Mohammad Yousuf
According to me, the best Pakistani middle order batsman I have seen (average 57 at nos 4). Only Miandad and Inzi can come close.
Tony Greig
Big Bad Tony. Averages 40 with 8 hundreds. Taken 141 wickets at an average of 32
Saleem Malik
Solid four down. Averages 56 in the sixth position. Captain of Pakistan
Chris Cairns
Averages 44 in the seventh position with four hundreds. 218 wickets at an average of 29
Adam Parore (wk)
Averages 35+in the 8th place. Was selected in the NZ team as a batsman when Germon was captain
Andrew Caddick
Yeah. Decent support bowler averages 30. Can bowl in the subcontinent
Allan Donald
Will break your toes. Yorkers get wickets on any pitch. 330 wickets in 72
Dennis Lillee
Dickie Bird says best ever. 355 wickets in 65 matches. Swing AND pace.
------------------------
Dilip Doshi (Playing in Eden match instead of Caddick)
Debuted after the age of 30. Reached 100 wickets in 28 matches. Sexy glasses.

My team is filled with individuals who were better than the stats suggest.Akhtar,flintoff,mushtaq,fleming were some of the best players in the world yet the stats don’t show this for a variety of reasons while Rashid latif and sohail were extremely capable players as well who really should have played more often.
It is filled with matchwinners with bowling being the forte. A pace attack of akram, lee, akhtar and flintoff with mushtaq being the spin option. Very rarely do I see this side chasing targets of more than 300, while winning with an innings margin is a very reasonable target. With an average strike rate of 57 balls, it is hard to see how the opposition will build any partnership. All four fast bowlers complement each other well and I also have the part time option of Waugh if needed, which it wont be.
If worse comes to worse, I can employ the same tactic as England did in the body line series. If you cant beat them,Beat them !

While my batting might seem weak at first glance, I believe it is a case of the whole being bigger than the sums. It is anchored by the wonderfully talented mark Waugh and cullinan, who wouldn’t look out of place in any line up of the world. I have two Pakistani openers, with shoaib mohammad being the anchor to aamer sohail. Shoaibs hundreds against new zeland shows his comfort against the short bowl with fleming coming in at 3.

I also bat quite deep with my number 10 having a 100 to his name.

On the whole with my tail wagging deep and the class of my bowlers, I can easily make totals of 350+ which would be a pisstake for my bowlers to defend.
---
Shoiab Muhammad- The son of hanif Muhammad, though not as talented as his father, was an outstanding opener none the less. Scored runs all over the world, scoring his high score of 203* twice, once in India and the other in New Zealand. New Zealand coincidentally were his favourite team to play against, with a career average of 103 against them.
Aamer Sohail, along with anwar, formed one of the best opening partnership in Pakistan’s history.Aamer was a left handed batsman who loved to attack, would later go to captain Pakistan as well. Only played 47 test matches for Pakistan but there is a prevalent feeling that his career suffered as a result of his whistle blowing.
Fleming- The best newzealand captain and one of its best batsman ever. A player who really should have scored more hundreds such was his class. Still a top score of 274 shows that he did display his quality when needed.
Mark Waugh – The younger Waugh brother was a very good and elegant player. A lovely player to watch when in full flow, with a full array of shots. His only weakness being a lack of concentration which meant his average of 41 wasn’t higher.
Cullinan – One of the best SA batsman who scored runs everywhere around the world.
Flintoff- At his peak the best allrounder in the world, led England to the ashes against one of the best teams in history but injuries meant he couldn’t carry on his excellent form. For reasons known only to him, is currently trying his hands at boxing. Should have joined united.
Latif- An underrated keeper who suffered from being in moin khan’s shadow and matchfixing scandals.
W.Akram- One of the best bowlers in the history of the game. The sultan of swing and one of the two Ws.
B.Lee- One of the fastest bowlers in the world.
Saqlain Mushtaq-One of the best Pakistani spinners. Invented the doosra and was handy with the bat as well.
Shoaib Akhtar- One of the fastest bowlers in the world and at his peak unplayable. A person whose stats belie how good he really was.
---------------------------------
Ijaz Ahmed-A gifted number 3 who loved playing against Australia. One of the most underrated Pakistani players. (Will play in SCG instead of Fleming)

 

[crappycraperson]

Name your captains please

 

[crappycraperson]

The Regulator (in team with Interval_Level) says:

Spoiler

MJJ's bowling vs our batting: Mjj has a bowling attack of Lee, Akthar, Saqlain, Flintoff and Wasim Akram. First of all, Graham Gooch is widely regarded as the greatest players of pace EVER, in any era. His century against the west indies is regarded as the greatest innings ever. As a matter of fact, during the 80's of West Indies domination, the only two batsman who ever truly got one over the west Indian fast four were Gooch and Gavaskar. In that bowling attack MJJ has, Flintoff, Lee average over the 30's in test cricket. Given Gooch has dominated against bowlers like Walsh and Marshall I doubt that two decent quicks would prove to be a problem for him.

Gooch has played Wasim Akram a total of 6 times in test cricket:http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...r_involve=1775;template=results;type=allround

He averages 46.18 against Pakistan when Wasim Akram has been playing. Below is a link to each innings.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...5;template=results;type=allround;view=innings

In the 11 innings that Gooch has played vs Pakistan, he has only been dismissed by Wasim Akram twice, once where he had already made a sizable contribution. Given Gooch's status as an opener and Wasim Akram's as an opening strike bowler, these stats show that Akram has been rendered inefficient by Gooch. If you notice closely, most of Gooch's dismissals were by the spinner later in the innings, which simply showed Gooch's superiority against Akram. Akhtar is not a test great by any stretch and again, if Gooch can overcome challenges set by the West Indian bowlers who were of similar bowling styles to Akhtar but better, I should see no problem. Gooch was also a very good player of spin and had more than enough in his locker to counter Saqlain despite the two never facing.

Dilshan has faced an England side with Flintoff in 10 innings in his career. He averages almost 50 in the times he has played against Flintoff.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...r_involve=4271;template=results;type=allround

Dilshan has also never faced Lee in test matches. Any argument MJJ strings on this behalf will be purely hypothetical. Dilshan, given his schooling in Sri Lankan turning pitches will not be troubled by Saqlains spin. Dilshan has also faced Pakistan in 4 test matches. he has never been dismissed by either akhtar or Wasim.

There is not that much to say about Viv Richards to be honest. He is the complete batsman and is regarded by many as the Muhammed Ali of Cricket.

We will obviously struggle to compare Moyo to Wasim/Akhtar due to the fact that they were on the same team. Moyo was a very good player of pace and is actually very similar to Ian Bell in terms of playing style.

As for MJJ's batting lineup:

brittle, and not a single one of those is a proper grafter who can relied on to stay there once the going gets touch. Donald/Lilee opening bowling combo will eat their openers alive. Waugh had a tendency to play rash loose strokes when pressurized and also had a frailty to spin. Caddick to hit line and length outside off all day long and the spinner to bowl length. The mistake will come. (averages a mighty 12 vs Sri Lanka vs Murali)

[/quote]

 

[Interval]

Just to highlight out major points:

• MJJ's batting: brittle, and not a single one of those is a proper grafter who can relied on to stay there once the going gets touch. Donald/Lilee opening bowling combo will eat their openers alive. Sohail was poor. His openers are dead ducks in foreign conditions – Mohammad average below 30 in India, England and Austalia. Waugh had a tendency to play rash loose strokes when pressurized and also had a frailty to spin. Caddick to hit line and length outside off all day long and the spinner to bowl length. The mistake will come. (averages a mighty 12 vs Sri Lanka vs Murali). My middle order (2-6) has scored ~50% more hundreds in 8% less innings.
• MJJ's bowling vs our batting: Mjj has a bowling attack of Lee, Akthar, Saqlain, Flintoff and Wasim Akram. First of all, Graham Gooch is widely regarded as the greatest players of pace EVER, in any era. His century against the west indies is regarded as the greatest innings ever. Batting Averages 35+ all the way till number EIGHT.
• Where are his big characters? Name one apart from Akram? We have Gooch, Viv, Greig, Donald and lillee

 

[Donaldo]

My middle order (2-6) has scored ~50% more hundreds in 8% less innings

 

[Interval]

Its true. You can look up the numbers

My 2-6 has 71 hundreds in 585 Test innings
His 2-6 has 48 in 633 innings.

HIS batsmen are of the relatively newer era and hence should have higher nos of hundreds.

 

[Moby]

Just to highlight out major points:

• Where are his big characters? Name one apart from Akram? We have Gooch, Viv, Greig, Donald and lillee

Could also be a case for a class of egos, that.

Specially Viv and Greig.

 

[MJJ]

• S

Just to highlight out major points:

• MJJ's batting: brittle, and not a single one of those is a proper grafter who can relied on to stay there once the going gets touch. Donald/Lilee opening bowling combo will eat their openers alive. Sohail was poor. His openers are dead ducks in foreign conditions – Mohammad average below 30 in India, England and Austalia. Waugh had a tendency to play rash loose strokes when pressurized and also had a frailty to spin. Caddick to hit line and length outside off all day long and the spinner to bowl length. The mistake will come. (averages a mighty 12 vs Sri Lanka vs Murali). My middle order (2-6) has scored ~50% more hundreds in 8% less innings.
• MJJ's bowling vs our batting: Mjj has a bowling attack of Lee, Akthar, Saqlain, Flintoff and Wasim Akram. First of all, Graham Gooch is widely regarded as the greatest players of pace EVER, in any era. His century against the west indies is regarded as the greatest innings ever. Batting Averages 35+ all the way till number EIGHT.
• Where are his big characters? Name one apart from Akram? We have Gooch, Viv, Greig, Donald and lillee

• Sohail had a better record overseas,specially as I pointed out in newzeland so your point about them struggling in foreign conditions is moot. Waugh also had a tendency to build innings properly and all of my top four have made scores in excess of 150, with shoaib even making a 200 against India. Also, my team doesnt need huge totals to defend as the bowlers are more than capable at defending 300,etc.
• And wasim akram is regarded as one of the best bowlers EVER in any era, am sure he can get gooch out. Gooch also has the pace of akthar and lee to deal with, combined with the cunning of mushtaq.
• Flintoff won an ashes for england so he is one. Cullinan could always be counted on to make big innings and bale SA out. I have the fearless a.sohail opening and who is a bigger character than shoiab akhtar, on and off the field?

 

[MJJ]

• Dilshan struggled against mohammad amir, a protege of wasim akram whose game is still not at that level. Now imagine him going against wasim,lee and akhtar, disaster. His average against a weaker pakistani attack is coincidentally 36. Its not hard to see IL being one down early in the first session.
• Yousaf and malik like all asian batsman suffered against the short bowl and pace. I cant imagine them lasting long against my pace attack, particularly against akram who knows their game inside out.
• Chris cairns as a test player? Thats another that will get out quickly and parore's career average is 26, the same as rashid latif despie IL's attempt to window dress.
• While at first glance my batting does seem weaker, his is not much better due to my bowlers being tailormade to exploit their weaknesses. Get gooch and viv out early and I can see his side succumbing to a low score of under 200.
• 
  And now his achilles heel. His bowling. He has lille and bird, who I concede are worldclass but who else? Both of them are fast bowlers who cant bowl long spells so he would need to rotate. What are his rotation choices? Cairns and Caddick in an all time draft? After the initial spell my batsman can easily build their innings and get settled in. And the fact that he doesnt even have a proper fifth choice bowler or a spin option.

 

[Moby]

Not sure why IL went for Dilshan. Stands out like a sore thumb in there.

 

[MJJ]

And anyone who has seen akhtar play will concede that at his peak he was one of the best bowlers in the world who can take wickets anywhere in the world against anyone. A man who can bowl dravid and tendulkar cant be contain by the likes of dilshan.

And as I mentioned in my write up, my bowlers have strike rate on average of 57!!!!! As IL kindly pointed out my players are from a newer era where the batsman find it easier to make runs while the bowlers struggle. A strike rate of 57 in struggling conditions, now imagine them playing when the game was more even.

 

[Interval]

Could also be a case for a class of egos, that.

Specially Viv and Greig.

They're team players. Both will try and outdo each other and score 200 each

 

[Interval]

Not sure why IL went for Dilshan. Stands out like a sore thumb in there.

He can play spin conditions well. And how is it a sore thumb vs Sohail and Mohammad? They're both significantly poorer batsmen.

 

[Moby]

He can play spin conditions well. And how is it a sore thumb vs Sohail and Mohammad? They're both significantly poorer batsmen.

Nah not with respect to the opposition but your line up. I like rest of your batting line up but then I see Dilshan and I ask myself what the feck is he doing here.

 

[Interval]

• Dilshan struggled against mohammad amir, a protege of wasim akram whose game is still not at that level. Now imagine him going against wasim,lee and akhtar, disaster. His average against a weaker pakistani attack is coincidentally 36. Its not hard to see IL being one down early in the first session.

Are you kidding me? Just because you MAY get Dilshan doesn't mean I'll go down in the first session. You do know I have Richards, Yousuf, Greig and Malik followed by Cairns and Parore, right? You're just focusing on Dilshan

• Yousaf and malik like all asian batsman suffered against the short bowl and pace. I cant imagine them lasting long against my pace attack, particularly against akram who knows their game inside out.

A bit of a generalisation since both have adequate average in England.

• Chris cairns as a test player? Thats another that will get out quickly and parore's career average is 26, the same as rashid latif despie IL's attempt to window dress

There is no window dressing. I gave an average of 35+ since he actually does indeed average that in the 8th place. Chris Cairns was a test player and DID average 44 in the seventh place. So its not like he WASN'T a test player. He obviously wasn't Imran Khan, but its not like you have a team of Imran Khans

• While at first glance my batting does seem weaker, his is not much better due to my bowlers being tailormade to exploit their weaknesses. Get gooch and viv out early and I can see his side succumbing to a low score of under 200.

Oh yeah, Gooch, Yousuf, Malik Grieg are all irrelevant? All played spin well. And frankly, Gooch and Greig played MUCH better fast bowlers than Lee and Akhtar.

• And now his achilles heel. His bowling. He has lille and bird, who I concede are worldclass but who else? Both of them are fast bowlers who cant bowl long spells so he would need to rotate. What are his rotation choices? Cairns and Caddick in an all time draft? After the initial spell my batsman can easily build their innings and get settled in. And the fact that he doesnt even have a proper fifth choice bowler or a spin option.

Ermm... Tony Greig was a spinner. Did quite well actually, if you managed to look him up. I'm sorry to point out, that I have 5 bowlers - 2 of whom are world class. 3 by all definition are strong support bowlers. On the other hand, you don't have ONE world class batsman. You have a bunch of middling batsmen who weren't the best at building long innings. Hence, the combination in my bowling is better than the combo you have in batting.

 

[Interval]

Nah not with respect to the opposition but your line up. I like rest of your batting line up but then I see Dilshan and I ask myself what the feck is he doing here.

Hah! We all have these picks. I had Gibbs as an option but Dilshan played spin better and can bowl. Plus, he clearly isn't the worst of the four opening bats. That goes to Sohail. I'd argue he is better than Mohammad judging by averages given that Shoiab Mohammad averaged BELOW 30 in India, Australia and England where the matches are taking place.

Also, Don't let MJJ belittle Gooch. I mean seriously, his bowlers will find it impossible to just break him down

 

[Interval]

• Sohail had a better record overseas,specially as I pointed out in newzeland so your point about them struggling in foreign conditions is moot. Waugh also had a tendency to build innings properly and all of my top four have made scores in excess of 150, with shoaib even making a 200 against India. Also, my team doesnt need huge totals to defend as the bowlers are more than capable at defending 300,etc.
• And wasim akram is regarded as one of the best bowlers EVER in any era, am sure he can get gooch out. Gooch also has the pace of akthar and lee to deal with, combined with the cunning of mushtaq.
• Flintoff won an ashes for england so he is one. Cullinan could always be counted on to make big innings and bale SA out. I have the fearless a.sohail opening and who is a bigger character than shoiab akhtar, on and off the field?

Sohail has a BETTER record abroad but thats better than his 35 averaging self. Not much of an achievement. I'm sorry to point out that both your openers were far worse than mine.

Gooch did deal with the best SET of bowlers of all time which included the big Windies guys (Marshall and Ambrose era). I'm sure if he survived that he can take a couple of overs from Akhtar who will then proceed to fall into a heap of tiredness.

Try dressing Cullinan and Flintoff based on one off series. Point is neither were big name, big match players on a consistent basis. Cullinan was a solid middle ordr batsman and thats it. Same way you are dismissive of Dilshan.

There are two major points people are overseeing here:

• My batting vs his is significantly superior. Moreso than his bowling is superior to mine. I have atleast 2 truly world class bowlers supported by 3 strong supporting bowlers. He has ZERO world class test batsmen and 2-3 strong supporting batsman.
• His team has NO MATCH WINNING CHARACTERS bar Akram. I have FIVE

 

[Interval]

Nah not with respect to the opposition but your line up. I like rest of your batting line up but then I see Dilshan and I ask myself what the feck is he doing here.

Oh just read your question properly. Yeah. He bowls and plays spin well. Is a good aggressor to my Gooch strength.

 

[Interval]

Gooch: cricket's no.1 run machine

Spoiler

The golfer Joyce Wethered was once playing a crucial shot in a major championship when an express train suddenly thundered past. "Didn't the train put you off?" she was asked later. "What train?" she replied. The ability to forget the clutter of everything else and concentrate this completely is surprisingly rare, even among great performers in sport. But Graham Gooch had it in full measure.
And this skill, more the result of mental steel than any natural gift, was the single most important reason for the fact that, by the time he started his final match for Essex on July 23, 1997, Graham Alan Gooch, born at Whipps Cross in Leytonstone exactly 44 years before, had become the most prolific player in history.
One had sensed that he must be somewhere near, when all his limited overs runs had been added to his final tally of 44,841 in first-class games at an average of 49.11, but it took the computations of Robert Brooke to confirm for Wisden this stupendous fact. No single batsman, not Grace, nor Hobbs, nor Woolley, nor Boycott, nor any of his contemporaries in an age of proliferating fixtures, had made so many runs in top-class cricket as the pink-faced, heavy-limbed yeoman of Essex. He had, in fact, unnoticed, overtaken Jack Hobbs's total of 61,237 runs when he reached 67 in a Benson and Hedges Cup game between Essex and Gloucestershire at Chelmsford on May 9, 1995. He finished with 65,928 at 45.81. It is hard to imagine who might ever overtake him.
Gooch, unfortunately, chose to release the news of his retirement through a Sunday newspaper whose chief business is scandal-mongering, but he was always acutely aware of his own worth and the need to make the most of that. In cricketing terms that made him the dedicated professional par excellence: steady, sound, sober, solid. It is still a revelation to know that he was not just the latest, perhaps the last, in a long line of that sort of English professional batsman, but, by numerical proof, the hungriest and most acquisitive of them all. He surpassed men like Sutcliffe, Hutton and Boycott from the north; Grace, Hayward, Hobbs and Mead, from the south.
It seems natural to exclude Woolley, Hendren, Hammond and Graveney of the other leading batsmen, because they were somehow different in their nature and approach: more artists than accountants. Yet Gooch himself - and this makes his achievement all the more remarkable - belongs more truly with the entertainers: he was a magnificent sight in full sail. This was no dabber of singles, no delicate leg-glancer or specialist in the smooth caress of a half-volley through extra cover. On the contrary, he was a bold, imposing player: a mighty driver and fierce square-cutter, who looked at the crease to be taller and bulkier than be actually was, with a bat apparently broader than the law permits.
When I first saw him, for MCC against the Australians in 1975, he was still only 21 but he pull-drove Jeff Thomson into the Lord's Grand Stand for six, before repeating the treatment on Gary Gilmour. Six years later at Sabina Park, in the final Test of England's 1980-81 tour of the West Indies, he temporarily obliterated a ferocious attack of Holding, Marshall, Croft and Garner. Croft, hitherto bullyingly successful, was savaged for 56 runs in eight overs on a pitch which was hard and bouncy. Gooch cut him over third man for one six and hooked Marshall for another. He had made 103 out of 155 for two in the 40th over and 153 out of 249 when he was fifth out.
His greatest innings was one run higher and also against West Indies, at Headingley in grey weather on a tricky pitch in June 1991. It took him seven and a half hours. The forces arrayed against him were no less fierce: Ambrose, Patterson, Walsh and Marshall. Gooch was captain and more than just the backbone of his side. Throughout England's second innings, he virtually was the side. He carried his bat for 154 out of 252 and England went on to win. So they had, too, of course, when he made his 333 and 123 in a single Test at Lord's against India in 1990. These, however, constituted easier pickings.
This is all well documented. It is the all-round consistency, the excellence of his figures against all types of bowler - Terry Alderman's supremacy over him in 1989 was the result of a technical fault assiduously worked out and corrected - and, above all, in all types of cricket, which placed him above the players of his own era. Time and again, he shone on the major one-day occasion. He won nine NatWest match awards and 22 in the Benson and Hedges, both records. His 129 not out against West Indies at Port-of-Spain in 1985-86 was the most exciting, sustained one-day innings I have ever seen.
Viv Richards played these sort of innings more often. Gordon Greenidge, who played three more internationals than Gooch's 125, and Desmond Haynes, who played many more, scored more one-day international runs, and so have plenty of others, but no other Englishman. Of the top ten scorers in one-day internationals, all have played county cricket and know what it is to switch so often between first-class games and one-day matches of differing lengths. But when the totals of the modern greats are totted up, Haynes, Richards, Greenidge, Boycott, Amiss, Javed Miandad, Salim Malik, Border, Jones, Boon and the rest all fall short of Gooch. The nearest in terms of innings played, Dennis Amiss, scored more than 10,000 fewer runs overall (55,462) from only 41 fewer innings. In all the categories except one-day internationals - Amiss played only 18 of them - his average is significantly lower than Gooch's. The difference is most marked in the Nat West and Benson and Hedges, in which Gooch averaged 48.98 and 52.28 to Amiss's 39.00 and 34.86.
All this does not, of course, make Graham Gooch the greatest player of his time but, even if we judge him only by the timeless yardstick of first-class cricket, ignoring the mind-wearying, sinew-stretching demands of the limited-overs game, his stature is clear. After the reduction in Championship matches in 1969, he alone scored above 2,000 runs in more than three seasons. He did so in five: 1984, 1985, 1988, 1990 and 1993; another 56 runs in his last full season, 1996, would have made it six. He made eight first-class hundreds that year and, had he not promised his dying father that he would play one more year, it would have been the right note on which to finish.
It was one of the few occasions when he allowed emotion to supersede his cricketing judgment. What made him special was his capacity for hard work and rigid self-discipline. He earned every run.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/wisdenalmanack/content/story/153286.html

 

[crappycraperson]

It must also be pointed out that Gooch was one of the cnuts who visited SA during their ban for apartheid.

 

[Interval]

So? Dickish move tbh. But hardly grounds to judge a player's ability.

 

[NM]

I'm sorely tempted to vote against IL as I think Richards will have knocked out Greig with a bat before the game. Also, his bowlers (Lillee and Donald aside) will struggle to get 20. Still leaning towards him - when his bowlers click - he will win a game. His batsmen can probably draw the other two.

 

[Moby]

Yeah agree with you NM. Will he win at Eden Gardens with Greig as the only spin option? On the other hand Saqlain can be a terror on that pitch.

 

[NM]

Yeah agree with you NM. Will he win at Eden Gardens with Greig as the only spin option? On the other hand Saqlain can be a terror on that pitch.

Yeah. This is a toughie. Has nobody voted yet?

 

[Moby]

Just one. crappy.

 

[Interval]

I'm sorely tempted to vote against IL as I think Richards will have knocked out Greig with a bat before the game. Also, his bowlers (Lillee and Donald aside) will struggle to get 20. Still leaning towards him - when his bowlers click - he will win a game. His batsmen can probably draw the other two.

I do have other bowlers ya. Its not like Cairns, Caddick and Greig are mugs. They can account for 4-5 wickets. Especially given that his batting isn't exactly star studded.

Like I said earlier, my bowling < his bowling. My batting >> His batting. I have 2 world class bowlers, 3 support bowlers. He has ZERO world class batsmen. 2-3 decent support batsmen. If Cairns is shit with the ball, by the same scale, are Cullinan and Flintoff with the bat

 

[Moby]

Yeah makes sense to me. Overall you have better balance.

 

[Moby]

Had MJJ gone for someone like Inzy ahead of Lee, when he already had a class bowling line up, would have been better IMO.

 

[NM]

I do have other bowlers ya. Its not like Cairns, Caddick and Greig are mugs. They can account for 4-5 wickets. Especially given that his batting isn't exactly star studded.

Like I said earlier, my bowling < his bowling. My batting >> His batting. I have 2 world class bowlers, 3 support bowlers. He has ZERO world class batsmen. 2-3 decent support batsmen. If Cairns is shit with the ball, by the same scale, are Cullinan and Flintoff with the bat

I reckon you will probably win and will vote for you - but it isn't clear cut.

 

[MJJ]

akhtar has a strike rate of 47 despite a career filled with injuries and disruption. he could easily have been one of the greats so while you may have two world class bowlers I have four.

second your middle order is composed of yousif and Malik both of whom struggle against pace. doubt they will do much

dilshan is a non factor and Flintoff has made runs against an aussie side consisted of Warne McGrath and lee.

 

[Moby]

Viv against Akram would be a fascinating contest. Hard to imagine an outcome.

 

[MJJ]

Flintoff Waugh cullinan Flintoff are more than enough to take the total to 300. specially after surviving your opinimg two. your rotation bowlers are simply not good enough and the first two dont have the stamina to keep it up.

while your batsman will get zero relief. I can rotate akhtar lee wasim and Flintoff. a whole day of 90+ mph bowlers. your batting will crumble.

 

[MJJ]

I meant shoaib when I said has a good record aboard. he has an average of 100+ against NZ and meant you will lose dilshan early by one down. the difference in our batting is the same as the difference in our bowling.

 

[MJJ]

and tony grieg has a strike rate of 78 in India Australia and England. so yes you do only have two worldclass bowlers and two decent one. even Craddick isn't good enough so my batsman shouldn't struggle much. particularly in eden gardens.

 

[crappycraperson]

Voted for IL in the end. Having Vivs gives him that X factor and I agree with NM that Donald/Lillie are good to win him at least one match here. I also rate Cairns a lot so that helped IL here.

MJJ's bowling attack is defo better IM but generally voters in these cricket draft games have a tendency to give much more weightage to bowling at the expense of batting. I know that without a good bowling unit you can not win test matches but your bowling needs the other half to provide some runs to defend. IL's two best batsmen are Vivs and Gooch. MJJ's are Waugh and Cullinan? Too bug a gulf there IMO. I also reckon he should have played Cullinan at no.3 or even opened with him. His best shot to have someone weather Donald and Lillie up top.

 

[Interval]

akhtar has a strike rate of 47 despite a career filled with injuries and disruption. he could easily have been one of the greats so while you may have two world class bowlers I have four.

second your middle order is composed of yousif and Malik both of whom struggle against pace. doubt they will do much

dilshan is a non factor and Flintoff has made runs against an aussie side consisted of Warne McGrath and lee.

Yousuf and Malik: What do you mean doubt they will do much? These are international cricketers who have had successful careers facing fast bowlers of various varieties. Lets have a look at actual numbers
Yousuf has an average of 62 in England, 50 in India and 30 in Australia.
Saleem Malik averages: 61 in England, 46 in Australia and 32 in India

If that's not proof enough of having played in the conditions that are up for discussion I don't know what is

call Dilshan a non entity? Wtf?!?
Dilshan average 50 in England, 33 in Autralia and 46 in India. Do you think he is a mug number 11 batsman that he is just a plain non entity. He has 16 hundreds btw. Thats more than ALL your batsmen bar ONE. Cullinan average EIGHT in Australia.

You keep mentioning Mohammad's average in NZ? Why NZ. Please point out that he average less than 30 in India, Autralia and England where the matches are actually being held

Lastly, your Caddick not even a solid option? He average less than Lee. Not saying he is better than Lee. But please, explain that to me?

 

[Interval]

Why do I keep typing average instead of averages.

The Regulator's awesome replies coming up

 

[Interval]

Here is my reply:

• Sohail had a better record overseas,specially as I pointed out in newzeland so your point about them struggling in foreign conditions is moot. Waugh also had a tendency to build innings properly and all of my top four have made scores in excess of 150, with shoaib even making a 200 against India. Also, my team doesnt need huge totals to defend as the bowlers are more than capable at defending 300,etc.
• And wasim akram is regarded as one of the best bowlers EVER in any era, am sure he can get gooch out. Gooch also has the pace of akthar and lee to deal with, combined with the cunning of mushtaq.
• Flintoff won an ashes for england so he is one. Cullinan could always be counted on to make big innings and bale SA out. I have the fearless a.sohail opening and who is a bigger character than shoiab akhtar, on and off the field?

1) You mean his amazing stats of 14 vs South Africa, 21 vs Windies, 30 vs New zealand and 29 vs zimbabwe? the only non subcontinental team he averaged well against was against England's worst ever bowling attack. Congrats, your batsman can make centuries. Do you want a clap? Stuart Broad has a high score in excess of 150+, should he open in the top order aswell then?
2) Wasim Akram was a great bowler. So were Marshall, Roberts, Bishop, Walsh, Ambrose, Holding. None of them could get one over Gooch. "I'm sure he could get gooch out" What a great statement, remonstrative of cricketing knowledge. So why is it then, that the 11 times the pair have faced, Wasim has only gotten him out once with the new ball, the other time getting him out whilst he had already made 80 runs?
3) Flintoff did win an ashes for england. Excellent. He also averaged 32 with the ball and 32 with the bat and couldn't grind out an innings to save his life. Cullinan was a good batsman. shame he averaged 4 in Australia, 8 in Pakistan, 5 in zimbabwe and feasted on the weak attacks of New Zealand india and England. A.Sohail, fearless? Jesus wept. viv was fearless. Kp was fearless. not A.Sohail.

• Dilshan struggled against mohammad amir, a protege of wasim akram whose game is still not at that level. Now imagine him going against wasim,lee and akhtar, disaster. His average against a weaker pakistani attack is coincidentally 36. Its not hard to see IL being one down early in the first session.
• Yousaf and malik like all asian batsman suffered against the short bowl and pace. I cant imagine them lasting long against my pace attack, particularly against akram who knows their game inside out.
• Chris cairns as a test player? Thats another that will get out quickly and parore's career average is 26, the same as rashid latif despie IL's attempt to window dress.
• While at first glance my batting does seem weaker, his is not much better due to my bowlers being tailormade to exploit their weaknesses. Get gooch and viv out early and I can see his side succumbing to a low score of under 200.
• 
  And now his achilles heel. Hisbowling.He has lille and bird, who I concede are worldclass but who else? Both of them are fast bowlers who cant bowl long spells so he would need to rotate. What are his rotation choices? Cairns and Caddick in an all time draft?After the initial spell my batsman can easily build their innings and get settled in. And the fact that he doesnt even have a proper fifth choice bowler or a spin option.

1)...Logic. Tendulkar struggles against Anderson. He must be awful vs every other better swing bowler in the world then! Atherton struggles vs McGrath. He must therefore struggle vs every medium-fast tall seam bowler in the world then!

2) that's just bollocks. Moyo was an outstanding player of pace and was responsible for many a good innings on foreign tours.

3) Yes, Chris Cairns, you know, that guy who has better stats than your god Flintoff?

4) What do you mean by "Tailormade" to exploit their weaknesses? Viv had no real weakness apart from the fact that he would try to go out the crease too early. Gooch's weakness was that he would get too bogged down by line and length bowlers. You don't have a single one of those. You have a bunch of strike bowlers who, as strike bowlers do, will occasionally err line and length for Gooch to hit.

5) Chris cairns and andy Caddick. You might know those two. After all, both of them have better test stats than Flintoff and lee. We don't have a proper fifth choice? Ever heard of Tony Grieg? And how do you plan to build an innings? With the amazing grafters you have?...oh wait.

And anyone who has seen akhtar play will concede that at his peak he was one of the best bowlers in the world who can take wickets anywhere in the world against anyone. A man who can bowl dravid and tendulkar cant be contain by the likes of dilshan.​

​

And as I mentioned in my write up, my bowlers have strike rate on average of 57!!!!! As IL kindly pointed out my players are from a newer era where the batsman find it easier to make runs while the bowlers struggle. A strike rate of 57 in struggling conditions, now imagine them playing when the game was more even.​

​

​

More amazing logic. Ishant Sharma bowled Ponting and gilchrist. Must be the greatest ever then. Akhtar was a bit of a spray as well. Your batsman made runs because the best bowlers are retired. If you want to make comparisons as to why a bowlers peak was destructive, don't ever ever say "OMG BUT LELZ HE BOWLED X Y Z"

Flintoff Waugh cullinan Flintoff are more than enough to take the total to 300. specially after surviving your opinimg two. your rotation bowlers are simply not good enough and the first two dont have the stamina to keep it up.​

​

while your batsman will get zero relief. I can rotate akhtar lee wasim and Flintoff. a whole day of 90+ mph bowlers. your batting will crumble.​

​

This post is the most ironic thing ever. You say our pacers don't have the stamina to keep it up, but you think that 90+ mph bowlers can sustain spells for 4-5 spells? fecking hell, no bowler in the history of cricket can do that. Watch a typical Lee test match. He starts off at around 90-93/94. By his 4th/5th spell he's bowling 85-88. You're relying on a batsman averaging in the 30's, a batsman who had afridi-esque brain meltdowns and another who averages single digits in 3 different countries. nice.

As for our bowling, Caddick again, has better stats than Lee and Flintoff. Also, Grieg has more than welcomable stats, especially as a spinner for his era. Our batting will crumble? Why will it crumble? It has some of the best players of pace bowling ever.

Your reasoning is illogical as it is flawed. Your arguments make no sense and you make strawman arguments that don't compute.

second your middle order is composed of yousif and Malik both of whom struggle against pace. doubt they will do much​

​

dilshan is a non factor and Flintoff has made runs against an aussie side consisted of Warne McGrath and lee.​

akhtar has a strike rate of 47 despite a career filled with injuries and disruption. he could easily have been one of the greats so while you may have two world class bowlers I have four.​

1) Wrong.
2) Stuart Broad has made runs against a Pakistan side consisting of Asif Aamir and Gul. Point? Strawman.
3) No, you have 1 great bowler. Flintoff, Lee can never be defined as great with 30+ bowling averages. Wasim is. Akhtar should have been, but never was.
Overall, you keep making the same points that are wrong. Your use of logic includes, "If x beat y, and y beat z, surely x will beat z!" Does not work like that. You don't have substance to your arguments.
for example: "Gooch was weak to pace" Really? Why don't you dig some stats up for us, dear and add us the substance

 

[Interval]

The Regulator

Also, I will explain how to get every single batsman of his out and their weaknesses.

Shoiab Muhammad- Over half of his dismissals have been caught at first or second slip.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...1;template=results;type=allround;view=innings

Lillee outswingers galore. Bye bye.

Aamer Sohail - Doesn't need to be a plan. Donald will destroy him.

Fleming - Cairns holds the line on one end. Donald to send short of a length outside off seaming away with the occasional seaming back on the other end. Had a problem facing bounce.
Mark Waugh – Caddick to bowl line and length all day. Grieg to pitch length balls. will get himself out.
Cullinan – Lillee. Averages 8 in Australia.
Flintoff - Donald to pitch up bouncers to him. 3 men out in the on side boundary. He will keep trying to hook. Can't hold back due to lack of temparement.
Latif- Doesn't need a working over.
W.Akram- Donald's yorkers.
B.Lee- ^
Saqlain Mushtaq- Tail ender
Shoaib Akhtar- Tail ender

 

[Interval]

Voted for IL in the end. Having Vivs gives him that X factor and I agree with NM that Donald/Lillie are good to win him at least one match here. I also rate Cairns a lot so that helped IL here.

MJJ's bowling attack is defo better IM but generally voters in these cricket draft games have a tendency to give much more weightage to bowling at the expense of batting. I know that without a good bowling unit you can not win test matches but your bowling needs the other half to provide some runs to defend. IL's two best batsmen are Vivs and Gooch. MJJ's are Waugh and Cullinan? Too bug a gulf there IMO. I also reckon he should have played Cullinan at no.3 or even opened with him. His best shot to have someone weather Donald and Lillie up top.

Exactly. Though you did leave out Yousuf.

All MJJ has done is attack Dilshan, though Dilshan has scored more hundreds than anyone in his team bar Mark Waugh. His openers are worse non entities.