Could Van Gaal convince you to give him one more season?

Could Van Gaal convince you to give him one more season?

  • Total voters
    913
If van Gaal was a genuine team builder, I'd expect to see a spine developing after 2 years. Instead I see a load of question marks. Who is our central defence partnership? Smalling has had a good, largely injury free season at last but neither Blind nor Jones seem to be viable options for the long-term. Who is the right back? Damian has not looked great and his back ups are an ageing former winger and an unproven youngster. Who form the central midfield combination? Schneiderlin probably (although he has been underwhelming) but who else? Who is on the flanks and upfront? Memphis has a huge amount to prove, Martial looks good but is still too young to be taking the main goal scoring burden, Rashford has played two games and as for Rooney...So many questions.
 
MoskvaRed said:
If van Gaal was a genuine team builder, I'd expect to see a spine developing after 2 years. Instead I see a load of question marks. Who is our central defence partnership? Smalling has had a good, largely injury free season at last but neither Blind nor Jones seem to be viable options for the long-term. Who is the right back? Damian has not looked great and his back ups are an ageing former winger and an unproven youngster. Who form the central midfield combination? Schneiderlin probably (although he has been underwhelming) but who else? Who is on the flanks and upfront? Memphis has a huge amount to prove, Martial looks good but is still too young to be taking the main goal scoring burden, Rashford has played two games and as for Rooney...So many questions.
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There are definitely questions to be asked but with the sheer number of injuries a team has to contend with its nigh on impossible to say with certainty who is going to be a guaranteed starter, looking at rb for example. Darmian, varela and Valencia is more than adequate for that position. Carrick, Herrera, Schmidfield is ok but Carrick needs replacing most likely. It's a rotation game so surely it's more a case of addressing a couple of small isolated positions rather than another big reassessment like you seem to be suggesting
 
Just about every team in the league could ask questions of most of their players but it won't help squat. New CB and rw and cm and we've got a strong, young team
 
Harrisamo said:
Just about every team in the league could ask questions of most of their players but it won't help squat. New CB and rw and cm and we've got a strong, young team
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And a striker presumably? And right side? I appreciate that few sides have every position covered but we seem to making a lot of assumptions about many positions.
 
SalfordRed1960 said:
You clearly never understood the philosophy in the first place.

You are focusing too much on the youth being played at the moment. They are only a small part of the squad, if we did not have the injuries, they may (not a fact) have been introduced, nobody is saying it was planned for them to be first team players. However, he did give Adnan, Wilson, Pereira, Lingard, McNair, Blackett to name some a chance, they did not deliver. The current crop have performed considerably better than those given a chance before.
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Oh i understand it well. It's to keep retention of ball at all cost, even if that means passing the ball back to the keeper a million times, bore the opposition to death, and let them concede a goal to just get it over with.
 
ghagua said:
Oh i understand it well. It's to keep retention of ball at all cost, even if that means passing the ball back to the keeper a million times, bore the opposition to death, and let them concede a goal to just get it over with.
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Says it all. Listen to his last 4 post match interviews, you will hear the same statements he has said during his time here.

You are confusing how it has been implemented by some players to what his philosophy is. What we have seen for some of last season and some of the games this season is his philosophy implemented well. It is obviously down to him to get consistency, but his philosophy has nothing to do with what you have just described.
 
SalfordRed1960 said:
Says it all. Listen to his last 4 post match interviews, you will hear the same statements he has said during his time here.

You are confusing how it has been implemented by some players to what his philosophy is. What we have seen for some of last season and some of the games this season is his philosophy implemented well. It is obviously down to him to get consistency, but his philosophy has nothing to do with what you have just described.
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Since you have the grasp of this "philosophy", please explain to the less fortunate of us who are finding it hard to understand.
 
I think the "ifs" are well and truly winning this poll.

Do we have a bit of a soft spot for the auld dutch pancake smoker?!
 
ghagua said:
Since you have the grasp of this "philosophy", please explain to the less fortunate of us who are finding it hard to understand.
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There are countless threads where people are expressing their view.

Trying being objective and listen to what he says, your comments about negative possession backward football really just shows you are not even listening. There is a often a big difference between what is planned and what is executed. You have seen shite football, so have jumped on the bandwagon of the philosophy is shite, boring football.
 
Brightonian said:
I 'love' that you still haven't grasped that Van Gaal deliberately shrunk the squad so that our response to injuries would be to use youngsters. Of course he didn't want an injury crisis but he set the squad up such that when we had injuries it would be youngsters, not squad-chaff like Anderson, Buttner, Hernandez etc, who would fill the gaps. He's often referred to his preference for this approach, he's done it at all his previous clubs, he said he was going to do it with us, and then he did it with us. Kind of odd how many people refuse to acknowledge it despite that overwhelming evidence.
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I just assumed you got it after our last conversation, but apparently not.

Don't want to digress this thread, let's continue where we left last time:

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/is-...s-in-recent-times.415109/page-3#post-18843477

And please, I would appreciate if you don't make up stuff this time. This is not a presidential debate between two opposing sides trying to win an election. We are both fans of the same club.

See you there.
 
Apologies if non-United fans aren't really meant to post in threads in this section but this subject interests me.

I've noticed a bit of a turning of the tide in regards to van Gaal recently. Besides the Arsenal result you've beaten Shrewsbury, Midtjylland and Watford. And two of them were at Old Trafford. You're Manchester United. The biggest club in the world. Beating sides like that should be the absolute minimum required of a United manager. If MOTD highlights are to be taken as a fair reflection of the Watford match then they could have scored about 5 if not for Ighalo's greed and incompetence. That and a moment of magic from Mata were the difference. I'd be hesitant to warm to LVG and give him a further season based purely off those results. If anything it shows just how far that standards have evidently slipped when beating these sides now earns you a reprieve. I saw the interview with him after the game the other night and he was getting asked how good it must feel to to have proven wrong the people that wrote off Manchester United and Louis van Gaal. The gap between United and 1st is the same as the gap between United and 12th place. As things stand you won't be qualifying for the Champions League. But apparently writing off United/van Gaal was foolish, inaccurate and premature.

I know that comes across as being negative or being a 'hater' but truth is despite not being a United 'fan' I go into every season hoping you win the league and always try and get down to a few games a season at OT. Maybe I just have unrealistic expectations for United of right now. Maybe I still look at United and see Ferguson's United as far as stature and expectations go. I don't know. I just think United could and should be doing so much better on the park, in the dugout and in the boardroom. Even if van Gaal is the right man for the job I'm sure as hell not going to be convinced of that because you won 4 games in a row against Shewsbury, Midtjylland, Arsenal and Watford when there's been months of results and performances to the contrary.

Fully prepared for the backlash but like I say, it's a subject that interests me because I've had my say before on here on van Gaal and some people agreed and some disagreed. I can see both sides' point of view and the pros and cons for both keeping and sacking him. For me the cons outweigh the pros.
 
Pink Moon said:
Apologies if non-United fans aren't really meant to post in threads in this section but this subject interests me.

I've noticed a bit of a turning of the tide in regards to van Gaal recently. Besides the Arsenal result you've beaten Shrewsbury, Midtjylland and Watford. And two of them were at Old Trafford. You're Manchester United. The biggest club in the world. Beating sides like that should be the absolute minimum required of a United manager. If MOTD highlights are to be taken as a fair reflection of the Watford match then they could have scored about 5 if not for Ighalo's greed and incompetence. That and a moment of magic from Mata were the difference. I'd be hesitant to warm to LVG and give him a further season based purely off those results. If anything it shows just how far that standards have evidently slipped when beating these sides now earns you a reprieve. I saw the interview with him after the game the other night and he was getting asked how good it must feel to to have proven wrong the people that wrote off Manchester United and Louis van Gaal. The gap between United and 1st is the same as the gap between United and 12th place. As things stand you won't be qualifying for the Champions League. But apparently writing off United/van Gaal was foolish, inaccurate and premature.

I know that comes across as being negative or being a 'hater' but truth is despite not being a United 'fan' I go into every season hoping you win the league and always try and get down to a few games a season at OT. Maybe I just have unrealistic expectations for United of right now. Maybe I still look at United and see Ferguson's United as far as stature and expectations go. I don't know. I just think United could and should be doing so much better on the park, in the dugout and in the boardroom. Even if van Gaal is the right man for the job I'm sure as hell not going to be convinced of that because you won 4 games in a row against Shewsbury, Midtjylland, Arsenal and Watford when there's been months of results and performances to the contrary.

Fully prepared for the backlash but like I say, it's a subject that interests me because I've had my say before on here on van Gaal and some people agreed and some disagreed. I can see both sides' point of view and the pros and cons for both keeping and sacking him. For me the cons outweigh the pros.
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I think most of us are resigned to the fact he simply wont be sacked or leave till the summer. What could he possibly do worse now than already done this season? title written off, CL written off, some watchable football is kind of the least we can take off him currently. and that's down to enthusiastic youth, god help us when fellaini, young, Valencia return to the side. Give it 2 more defeats and watch the mood turn again
 
Pink Moon said:
I know that comes across as being negative or being a 'hater' but truth is despite not being a United 'fan' I go into every season hoping you win the league and always try and get down to a few games a season at OT.
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I think we as fans have exactly the same expectation, whilst also acknowledging that certain teams may have a better first 11 when looking at individual players.

The two sides of the debate from United fans really boils down to whether you believe LVG the manager is the problem or not. Seems which ever side of the fence you sit on, you are not going to convince the other side. It would have been interesting to see what the caf would have been like in the years between Busby and Fergie winning. Maybe my memory is going but I do not recall a United manager ever having to face such bitterness from a section of fans. I think Moyes got off more lightly than LVG.
 
Moyes wasn't around for more than one season, and barely that. Part of the reason why LVG gets this level of criticism (and in some cases bitterness and abuse, yes) is that we have failed to build on last season and step it up a level. As many see it he's gone from steadying the ship after the Moyes fiasco - to falling down to that level again.

As for the years between Busby and Fergie, there were no Internet forums. You never saw the opinions of a huge number of fans expressed in a comparable way. Many fans detested Sexton, to make the most obvious example. If the Caf had been around during his stint, I'm sure he would've gotten dog's abuse on here too.
 
There is an argument that says cement a top four and win a cup would represent season on season progress and that progress could culminate in a PL title in his last season which, in all honesty, would be job done to the letter if that were to happen.

I think the decision has already been made that Mourinho is coming and a third or fourth priority cup will make little difference in the bigger picture. 4th place, should really be 3rd place at least if we are progressing, is the very least he should be achieving and making that doesn't really represent success unless we now want to bracket ourselves alongside Arsenal.

Should we somehow miraculously claim the PL title then that's a whole new debate......
 
SalfordRed1960 said:
There are countless threads where people are expressing their view.

Trying being objective and listen to what he says, your comments about negative possession backward football really just shows you are not even listening. There is a often a big difference between what is planned and what is executed. You have seen shite football, so have jumped on the bandwagon of the philosophy is shite, boring football.
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So what you're saying is that after almost 2 seasons we have a manager who the players still cannot follow or fathom what he's on about.

And whatever way you spin it, his team have played the shittest football in the league for most of the season. Do we really need to pull out all those embarrassing stats on negative records we beat this season?

His team. His tactics. His responsibility. He's out of time this summer
 
devilish said:
Would you kindly tell me who would you want instead of Jose?
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I initially wanted Guardiola because he would have been the logical continuation to what LVG has tried to build (possession based football) but that's impossible now. I have no idea who can come up and replace LVG who has been a big failure as far as I'm concerned. I fear that with Mourinho it will be the case of players having to learn and adapt to another brand of football altogether with all its problems and setbacks.
 
golden_blunder said:
So what you're saying is that after almost 2 seasons we have a manager who the players still cannot follow or fathom what he's on about.

And whatever way you spin it, his team have played the shittest football in the league for most of the season. Do we really need to pull out all those embarrassing stats on negative records we beat this season?

His team. His tactics. His responsibility. He's out of time this summer
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Just a quick point here. His team haven't played the worst football. Surely that would go to Chelsea (especially to around January) who had less goals, a worse defence and were expected to be title winners?
 
golden_blunder said:
His team. His tactics. His responsibility
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I am not sure that anyone has disagreed with that statement.

As for your other comments on shitiness you should try and be consistent. You and many others have claimed we only won because the opposition were shitter than us. You are also trying to be black and white on LVG'S era, either we are 100% good or we are 100% shit. Neither is true, there have been highs and lows.

You also seem to ignore the large change in personnel, the lack of playing form in a large number of first team players and any recognition that balance of the squad is fairly good.

Said all along I believe LVG will only go if he doesn't meet the boards expectations or in his last year if they do not want Giggs to follow him.

Seems that you are getting worked up because your negativity is not influencing any of the decision makers. Why don't you try enjoying the rest of the season, you might even notice a positive, because we have all seen the negatives you keep spouting though we may not agree on the level of it.
 
MoskvaRed said:
And a striker presumably? And right side? I appreciate that few sides have every position covered but we seem to making a lot of assumptions about many positions.
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Yeah RW. Can't make my mind up about strike, Martial, Rooney, Rashford and Wilson not sufficient? Would rather we got someone who can chip in with goals from the wing, basically a right sided Martial. No point hypothesising about a situation in which Rooney leaves because it won't happen, so I'd probably stick with what we have.
 
Nah. Even if he comes out of the season with some silverware and a top four place, it's still at the expense of months of torture.
 
SalfordRed1960 said:
I am not sure that anyone has disagreed with that statement.

As for your other comments on shitiness you should try and be consistent. You and many others have claimed we only won because the opposition were shitter than us. You are also trying to be black and white on LVG'S era, either we are 100% good or we are 100% shit. Neither is true, there have been highs and lows.

You also seem to ignore the large change in personnel, the lack of playing form in a large number of first team players and any recognition that balance of the squad is fairly good.

Said all along I believe LVG will only go if he doesn't meet the boards expectations or in his last year if they do not want Giggs to follow him.

Seems that you are getting worked up because your negativity is not influencing any of the decision makers. Why don't you try enjoying the rest of the season, you might even notice a positive, because we have all seen the negatives you keep spouting though we may not agree on the level of it.
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Let's be totally honest here, aside from Watford, who were by far the better team on the night and if not for the greedy Ighalo would have won the game comfortably, the rest of the teams were of either lesser standard (Midgetland & Shrewsbury) or performed shit on the day (Arsenal). As much I/we would like to believe that LVG's filosofy has bore fruit and the players are now playing to the standard expected of them, success is on the horizon ect I just don't buy it.

We, as a club, have made little to no progress since the start of his reign as king of Old Trafford. In fact, in light of the money spent on players and such, it could be argued that we have gone backwards or at best stagnated. The horrible football, the ridiculous statements in media, the trimming of the squad leaving us short at the back and up front, the incomprehensible philosphy, the process etc etc the list is endless. We could go on all day spouting the negatives on LVG's running of our club but quite frankly, why should we? There are better more effiecent managers waiting in the wings ready to take over.

David Moyes failed and was shown the door inside a year, LVG has been given, or about to be at least, 2 seasons and we are nowhere near the required standard to compete at the top of the Prem. He needs to be replaced by a winner, Jose Mourinho, who I beleive is the only manager available capable of bringing us out of this slump we are in.
 
LVG has had many false dawns, but if he gets us top four, we keep playing decentish football and win a trophy, I'll keep him without a doubt. It does help that I don't want Mourinho, the only proper candidate.
 
Pink Moon said:
Apologies if non-United fans aren't really meant to post in threads in this section but this subject interests me.

I've noticed a bit of a turning of the tide in regards to van Gaal recently. Besides the Arsenal result you've beaten Shrewsbury, Midtjylland and Watford. And two of them were at Old Trafford. You're Manchester United. The biggest club in the world. Beating sides like that should be the absolute minimum required of a United manager. If MOTD highlights are to be taken as a fair reflection of the Watford match then they could have scored about 5 if not for Ighalo's greed and incompetence. That and a moment of magic from Mata were the difference. I'd be hesitant to warm to LVG and give him a further season based purely off those results. If anything it shows just how far that standards have evidently slipped when beating these sides now earns you a reprieve. I saw the interview with him after the game the other night and he was getting asked how good it must feel to to have proven wrong the people that wrote off Manchester United and Louis van Gaal. The gap between United and 1st is the same as the gap between United and 12th place. As things stand you won't be qualifying for the Champions League. But apparently writing off United/van Gaal was foolish, inaccurate and premature.

I know that comes across as being negative or being a 'hater' but truth is despite not being a United 'fan' I go into every season hoping you win the league and always try and get down to a few games a season at OT. Maybe I just have unrealistic expectations for United of right now. Maybe I still look at United and see Ferguson's United as far as stature and expectations go. I don't know. I just think United could and should be doing so much better on the park, in the dugout and in the boardroom. Even if van Gaal is the right man for the job I'm sure as hell not going to be convinced of that because you won 4 games in a row against Shewsbury, Midtjylland, Arsenal and Watford when there's been months of results and performances to the contrary.

Fully prepared for the backlash but like I say, it's a subject that interests me because I've had my say before on here on van Gaal and some people agreed and some disagreed. I can see both sides' point of view and the pros and cons for both keeping and sacking him. For me the cons outweigh the pros.
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agree with this completely to be honest.

think this season's been so bad for most united fans that they'd (including myself) be happy to take anything that can help us in the future.

I'll change my mind only if we can at least be close to the title and win a cup (or we outright win the title by some miracle), given how van gaal is unlikely to stay beyond this season and certainly not after next season. but I remain skeptical because we've had plenty of false dawns.
 
Harrisamo said:
Just about every team in the league could ask questions of most of their players but it won't help squat. New CB and rw and cm and we've got a strong, young team
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I like this post. IMO it's very understated how obvious it is at the places we need to improve. Its making our next summer transfer targets easier to target. After that - surely it's progression?
 
Pink Moon said:
Apologies if non-United fans aren't really meant to post in threads in this section but this subject interests me.

I've noticed a bit of a turning of the tide in regards to van Gaal recently. Besides the Arsenal result you've beaten Shrewsbury, Midtjylland and Watford. And two of them were at Old Trafford. You're Manchester United. The biggest club in the world. Beating sides like that should be the absolute minimum required of a United manager. If MOTD highlights are to be taken as a fair reflection of the Watford match then they could have scored about 5 if not for Ighalo's greed and incompetence. That and a moment of magic from Mata were the difference. I'd be hesitant to warm to LVG and give him a further season based purely off those results. If anything it shows just how far that standards have evidently slipped when beating these sides now earns you a reprieve. I saw the interview with him after the game the other night and he was getting asked how good it must feel to to have proven wrong the people that wrote off Manchester United and Louis van Gaal. The gap between United and 1st is the same as the gap between United and 12th place. As things stand you won't be qualifying for the Champions League. But apparently writing off United/van Gaal was foolish, inaccurate and premature.

I know that comes across as being negative or being a 'hater' but truth is despite not being a United 'fan' I go into every season hoping you win the league and always try and get down to a few games a season at OT. Maybe I just have unrealistic expectations for United of right now. Maybe I still look at United and see Ferguson's United as far as stature and expectations go. I don't know. I just think United could and should be doing so much better on the park, in the dugout and in the boardroom. Even if van Gaal is the right man for the job I'm sure as hell not going to be convinced of that because you won 4 games in a row against Shewsbury, Midtjylland, Arsenal and Watford when there's been months of results and performances to the contrary.

Fully prepared for the backlash but like I say, it's a subject that interests me because I've had my say before on here on van Gaal and some people agreed and some disagreed. I can see both sides' point of view and the pros and cons for both keeping and sacking him. For me the cons outweigh the pros.
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Bravo!
 
ghagua said:
Oh i understand it well. It's to keep retention of ball at all cost, even if that means passing the ball back to the keeper a million times, bore the opposition to death, and let them concede a goal to just get it over with.
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That pretty much sums us up, for most of this season.
Quite clearly, this was the philosophy. If it wasn't then perhaps LVG does not know how to explain to his players, what he wants them to do...and that's basic management (to explain what you want your subordinates to do).
 
Pink Moon said:
Apologies if non-United fans aren't really meant to post in threads in this section but this subject interests me.

I've noticed a bit of a turning of the tide in regards to van Gaal recently. Besides the Arsenal result you've beaten Shrewsbury, Midtjylland and Watford. And two of them were at Old Trafford. You're Manchester United. The biggest club in the world. Beating sides like that should be the absolute minimum required of a United manager. If MOTD highlights are to be taken as a fair reflection of the Watford match then they could have scored about 5 if not for Ighalo's greed and incompetence. That and a moment of magic from Mata were the difference. I'd be hesitant to warm to LVG and give him a further season based purely off those results. If anything it shows just how far that standards have evidently slipped when beating these sides now earns you a reprieve. I saw the interview with him after the game the other night and he was getting asked how good it must feel to to have proven wrong the people that wrote off Manchester United and Louis van Gaal. The gap between United and 1st is the same as the gap between United and 12th place. As things stand you won't be qualifying for the Champions League. But apparently writing off United/van Gaal was foolish, inaccurate and premature.

I know that comes across as being negative or being a 'hater' but truth is despite not being a United 'fan' I go into every season hoping you win the league and always try and get down to a few games a season at OT. Maybe I just have unrealistic expectations for United of right now. Maybe I still look at United and see Ferguson's United as far as stature and expectations go. I don't know. I just think United could and should be doing so much better on the park, in the dugout and in the boardroom. Even if van Gaal is the right man for the job I'm sure as hell not going to be convinced of that because you won 4 games in a row against Shewsbury, Midtjylland, Arsenal and Watford when there's been months of results and performances to the contrary.

Fully prepared for the backlash but like I say, it's a subject that interests me because I've had my say before on here on van Gaal and some people agreed and some disagreed. I can see both sides' point of view and the pros and cons for both keeping and sacking him. For me the cons outweigh the pros.
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And yea, this statement sums it up nicely.
 
Pink Moon said:
Fully prepared for the backlash but like I say, ... For me the cons outweigh the pros.
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Dude, most of the fans are thinking exactly like you are.
LVG is a 4th-5th place manager and he is proving this right now.

For me, MUFC should be finishing 1st or 2nd every season (ie. title challenge every year).
There are some fans who are deluded and after beating the likes of Midtjylland, they think we can win the league.
Watford could've won. Arsenal were terrible (I'm not sure what happened to them in this game - Wenger is getting major flack for that performance, from AFC fans).

What really enforces my 'LVG OUT' rhetoric is when fans from rival clubs do not want us to hire Jose, and want LVG to remain.
I lurk on forums of Arsenal, Liverpool and Man City. I've seen many comments from rival fans who are worried that LVG could get fired and Jose will replace him. They want LVG to stay. This speaks volumes.
 
Santiago_KinderBueno said:
I like this post. IMO it's very understated how obvious it is at the places we need to improve. Its making our next summer transfer targets easier to target. After that - surely it's progression?
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Targeting is the easy part. We previously targeted the likes of Neymar, Muller, Bale, etc, but none of them want to join us. Why would a top tier player join a 5th place team, anyway?
The other issue is that last year, the 2 players who could walk into most teams - DDG and Di Maria - both tried to leave the team. So, it is evident that top players just don't feel MUFC is the right place to be right now.

In any case, we need to be realistic with our targets and aim to take the next step up (top 3 would be good progression) and not forget that we are not a league winning team right now, so attracting the biggest players is going to be impossible; though perhaps, having Jose here would make us more attractive.
 
kouroux said:
I cannot vote, I don't want Jose and I don't want LVG to stay.
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Same here, I don't think he should be here beyond this season but that doesn't mean I'm so anxious to get Mourinho. He's pretty much the default replacement.
 
kouroux said:
I initially wanted Guardiola because he would have been the logical continuation to what LVG has tried to build (possession based football) but that's impossible now. I have no idea who can come up and replace LVG who has been a big failure as far as I'm concerned. I fear that with Mourinho it will be the case of players having to learn and adapt to another brand of football altogether with all its problems and setbacks.
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Mourinho wasn't my first option. Ancelotti and Pep were. However while still holding concerns about Mourinho you can't blame people like me to see him as the best of the remaining options. Mourinho is a serial winner, he knows the EPL inside out and he's hungry for success. The only two alternatives I cant think of are Simeone (whose also a winner and unlike Mourinho he's got a good record in developing young players however he's got zilc experience in the EPL) and Pocahontas who have a good record in developing young players and has EPL experience but has yet to show that he's a winner. Ultimately we've got to choose. LVG is taking us nowhere and Maureen is certainly one of the finest options left
 
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