FFP was badged as "Making sure clubs can afford to pay for themselves so that we dont get clubs spending too much and going bust"
So yes Utd (Arsenal, Madrid, Bayern, power-clubs) could spend a lot more than others. It's why City were fined
Could Utd be sold soon?
- Thread starter wolvored
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So yes Utd (Arsenal, Madrid, Bayern, power-clubs) could spend a lot more than others. It's why City were fined
It is worth to note, especially with FFP insisted that 30% or less value of the sponsorship can be related to the owner, no more than 30%. Saudi Arabia can boast more £120m, 30% on top of the £279m commercial we earned in revenue so that would mean, we'd be earning £700m- 750m in revenue, so taking it into account incoming, spending almost 300m on wages and other expenses, we would have 400m left in cash. If we choose to spend every 300-400m in transfer window annually, we'd be still comfortable in healthy positive financial status, balancing the books as we won't have negatives balance. City and PSG can't spend that much money every summer given their financial.
I assume you never put petrol in your car or ever used transport or used any product that is derived from oil which is basically everything.
Got to love how football is the moral high ground for some of you.
They won’t actually stop supporting Utd either it’s just people being dramatic
The glazers supported Trump and funded his rallies. No one stopped supporting Utd because of it.
There is no connection with innocent people losing their lives and the potential owners of the club.
There is corruption everywhere and in most things too. We would struggle to find enjoyment in anything if we persisted to take the moral high ground with everything and anything.
Not this again, not all Oil comes from Saudi Arabia. Depending on where you live most likely very little or none of it in fact. Even if it did its still a stretch to equate purchasing fuel for your car to supporting a brutal regime in the middle east.
Again i don't believe it would be that simple mate. How are the Saudis going to plop £150m every year on top of Uniteds current commercial income?
It won't stadium naming rights, Barcelona are currently negotiating a deal that would make them £280m over 20 years for renaming the Nou Camp. So about £14m per year, so no where near £150m
It won't be a kit manufacturers deal for obvious reasons.
It won't be a shirt sponsorship as we already have the biggest shirt sponsorship in history with Chevrolet at £56m per year. Ok they could wait until that Chevy deal ends in 4 years and improve the terms. But they won't be able to add £100m per year to it.
There won't be much scope for any wealthy party to add much to the commercial revenues of the worlds most profitable club. Not in any way that would pass FFP anyway, Uefa would rule any deal that vastly inflates previous ones to not be fair market value. City can do it because they peg all their deals just under United's legitimate ones. Who are United going to do that with when we already have most of the biggest deals?
There's a big difference between supporting a political party that goes on to be involved in something bad Vs being an almost self appointed ruler that decides to bomb the shit out of a country and cut people up if they decide to criticise them.
I'm not supporting the Glazers at all, quite the opposite infact, but I'm just stating something that's very obvious. I know all about the Saudi commercial partnership stuff. What does that mean? That the Glazers are just as bad as the Saudis because they have a commercial agreement with them via a football club they own. Come off it.
We all out oil and petrol in our cars, does that mean we should bet held accountable for what is going on in the middle east?
As the world is moving towards Electric Vehicles Middle eastern countries may not be the force to reckon in near future. Not sure how citi fans feel when they think about this as they are expecting a long haul from their Abu dabies
Nice to see relegated Man-City being bought by Ashley in 2022
Nice to see relegated Man-City being bought by Ashley in 2022
I’m pretty sure you are looking at this wrong....
Firstly, the club would save 25m a year in interest payments. Secondly it would save 10-15m in “consultancy” payments to the Glazers. So you’ve already added 40m to the transfer budget. Thirdly, the club will no longer be need to be run for profit. Hence another 40-50M a year.
FFP also excludes losses incurred for infrastructure improvements. So new owners could absorb all the cost of training ground and stadium repairs/upgrades, and leave the entire operating budget for transfers.
Finally, new owners could create proprietary category sponsorship deal. Such as 30-40m a season to develop football programs in Saudi Arabia.
It would be incredibly easy for Saudi owners to inject a lot of capital into the club very quickly. It wouldn’t just be by one mechanism, it would be by many. FFP is riddled with loop holes.
No, no!!! OH FFS Spoony. FFS, we really needed him...
The club could be sold at anytime. But from the leaching Glazers into the hand of the devil himself... WOW
The UK alone imported over 1.6 Million Metric tonnes of crude oil from SA in 2017 alone and has been in the top 5 or 6 exporters for the UK alone.
Also, how you think the fact that putting petrol in your car and money going to them is "a stretch" is embarrassing unless you are wumming?
So despite making stuff up in your head and getting everything wrong as humanly possible what were you trying to achieve?
United can get more sponsors as they like, FFP is not totally against it, but if Saudi Arabia wants to sponsor, we'd be far ahead of everyone with exception of Barca, Real, by market valuable given our profile global brand and our value of the club, we'd be earning more in commercial, if our deal run out with the like of Chevy, Aon and Kocher, Saudi can increase more it if they like.
Would be a dream scenario, great choice. Never heard of Jim Ratcliffe until I read your post, so just did a quick search. He is interested in football as he owns Swiss club FC Lausanne-Sport. It was rumoured he was interested in buying Chelsea in the summer, so the there could be a chance that if the opportunity was to arise he might decide to buy us.
Now we just need our idol to convince him. Shouldn't be hard since he's a United fan!
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/foot...-chelsea-jim-ratcliffe-manchester-united-fan/
Ratcliffe, who was raised in a Manchester council house, said: “I am a season ticket holder at Chelsea, have been for years, although I’m a Manchester United fan really.
"Or was! It’s not getting any better. It’s gone from bad to catastrophic. Talk about a glass-half-empty.
“If you’ve got the six teams competing at the top of the table – this is last season anyway – you’ve got three who are managed by glass-half-full guys, Klopp, Guardiola and Pochettino. They get their teams up and energised.
“And then you look at Mourinho. He’s so down. He destroyed Luke Shaw last season. And then you’ve got Wenger who was miserable and Conte who was down."
"Or was! It’s not getting any better. It’s gone from bad to catastrophic. Talk about a glass-half-empty.
“If you’ve got the six teams competing at the top of the table – this is last season anyway – you’ve got three who are managed by glass-half-full guys, Klopp, Guardiola and Pochettino. They get their teams up and energised.
“And then you look at Mourinho. He’s so down. He destroyed Luke Shaw last season. And then you’ve got Wenger who was miserable and Conte who was down."
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Thanks for the link to the article. Now that I have heard he is a Manchester United fan. I want him even more. Would make so happy if we had a rich owner who cared about the club.
Yes that will be money saved but then how much more will the club have to pay in corporation tax every year if it is debt free? Theres a reason the club are still carrying that debt and haven't paid it off. Not sure if it's still the case but a few years ago the interest payments were working out more favourable than the tax the club would have had to pay each year by being debt free.
Yes we won't have to pay the Glazers but their cut likely comes out of the clubs profits so you can't really account for the same money twice can you?
How much are the club currently spending each year on repairs/maintenance to the stadium and training ground? Do you imagine it amounts to much more than a few hundred thousand or a million at most?
Possibly
I admire your optimism mate but i personally doubt it. If it were that easy to get around FFP City and PSG would both have higher revenues than United.
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Around 3% of the UK's oil imports comes from Saudi Arabia mate we import more from Nigeria, also considering a large amount of the UK's oil comes from the UK's own North sea operations. What are we talking about here probably about 1-2% of the Oil in the country from Saudi Arabia? Not a lot is it?
So on the off chance that a United fan happens to live in the UK and own a car that requires petrol/diesel, and is opposed to this takeover, and lives in an area where Saudi Oil arrives at their local garage and they purchase it knowing where it came from then you would maybe have a point. But otherwise as i said it's a stretch.
Other countries use lots of Saudi Oil though, so you might have a point there if the person knows where their oil comes from.
Everything wrong as humanly possible
. What did i make up please educate me mate?
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Yes more sponsorship deals are allowed certainly, increasing on our current deals when they expire is of course also allowed but they will have to represent market value. They can't come in and increase United's revenue by £150m as you suggested overnight. It would take years and even then theres no guarantee whatever they cooked up would pass FFP. PSG's owners thought they had it all figured out as well, but UEFA decided all their Qatari linked sponsorships were very bloated and way above market value.
A friend of mine made an interesting observation about this story earlier, one I hadn’t thought of. He said, ‘the Saudis would love to take United off a Jewish family’. I never even think of the Glazers as a Jewish family. I wonder is there any weird element of truth to this thought, would Middle East Saudi/Israeli tensions play into the supposed links to a KSA takeover? Odd one I know, interested in the Cafs thoughts...
MUST must put a petition together to help fund Ratcliffe's takeover. Or you reckon a hashtag going viral could even help? #RatcliffeManUtd #BuyUtdJim
Time to get that plane over Old Trafford. Hoping some match-going fans in here bring a banner or two begging for him to buy us. It might catch on!
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You only pay tax on profits. Unless it’s VAT, which is just a pass through. If all the money is reinvested on players, then there are no profits to be taxed.
No, consultancy fees come out of operating expenses. They are not dividends or disbursements which would come out of profits or capital accounts respectively.
A few million for sure. But the bigger picture is that the club needs a massive upgrade in its stadia facilities. A project the club could now tackle without affecting recruitment abilities. Technically new infrastructure such as hospitality facilities, hotels, shopping outlets, can be built with Saudi money, and the sold with the proceeds going to the club.
City’s revenues were peanuts a few years ago. Now they are nearly 500m. The second highest in the country by a distance. The growth has been staggering. Vastly outstripping much more established clubs that were well ahead.
A Saudí takeover could easily bolster United’s coffers by 100-150m a year. Leaving the club in a position where it could spend 200-250 million every summer without even going close to violating FFP.
Ok fair enough mate i'll take your word on this. Then maybe there would be room there to boost transfer funds.
Oh no doubt they could upgrade the stadium or build a new one. If they upgraded the stadium to say 90k then yeah that would bring more money in each year through ticket sales. While the club i assume wouldn't have to worry about paying the construction costs back. While i don't want this to happen, the potential redevelopment of OT would be the biggest plus that might come out of it. Because currently i don't see the Glazers ever investing much into the ground, and even if they did it would take the club years to pay it off.
I'm still not convinced by that number not right away anyway. But you've convinced me mate that a takeover like this could result in the club having access to more funds to spend every summer. City's growth has been rapid but it's mostly down to Abu Dhabi sponsorships set at levels comparable to other clubs legitimate deals. My thinking was that couldn't be done as quickly with United or to the same growth levels, in a potential takeover of United things would have to be done a little smarter and at a slower pace.
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Saudi-Israeli interests are aligned due to their mutual hatred of Iran ("my enemy's enemy is my friend").
It would be great if we were purchased by a sugar daddy that never took a penny out of the club.
In fact, I think it’s the only realistic way we would transform into an elite team in the near future. Mega fecking money.
In fact, I think it’s the only realistic way we would transform into an elite team in the near future. Mega fecking money.
Also, from the Glazer’s point of view, it’s difficult to see where they will make sizeable % increases in revenues as they have the passed decade. Even the TV deal has hurt saturation point.
Thats why I could see them selling up, along with having to keep spending to ensure at least the same money coming in on the football side of things, personally I think its the best time for them to sell.
The club is expensive to buy but has it peaked due to our performances, tv money saturation and surely we must be running out of companies to rip off, sorry, to sponsor us?
I generally agree with this, although a few caveats:
- Domestic TV money had reached saturation, but international rights continue to increase exponentially. They’ll will ultimately outstrip domestic rights. Tons of room for growth there.
- Mobile streaming’s rights in huge markets like China are still relatively untapped, and remain a focus for the club.
- A big part of the business plan, I’m led to believe, was the role in FFP in curbing the need to spend ridiculous sums on transfer fees. If they can hold out for a change in the rules to cap spending - something many top clubs are after - it would make sense to hold to asset.
- A European super league is of huge interest to the club, and would bring with it huge money. As would tournaments like the proposed annual club World Cup.
There are a lot of plans afoot in the European game that has the financial welfare of most of the top clubs aligned.
If new ownership can add a better strategic direction to the club then great. Thing is, Glazers have at least done a great job commercially, although they do have one of the best 'products'. So you don't want a new owner so bad it messes even that up. But I'll happily take an owner instill a better organisational system at the top as something is amiss even if people overplay it.
Both these points have been explained so may times in this thread - it's pointless doing it again.
If you want to bury your heads in the (Saudi) sand and see your club become everything people here think is wrong about city while being the PR puppet for a barbaric regime just so you can have some extra cash to spend on football, then it's your choice.
A full buyout would require 6-8billion if it's a hostile takeover. The value on paper is 4 but i doubt glazer would want to sell at that price.
The man got 21 billion to his name but most of it is not liquid asset, so he has to sell 1/3 of his asset (which is also profitable) just to buy united. With a divident of 50m per year on a good year with 6 billion investment... not lucrative. Besides united will ended up paying him 50m divident instead of 50m to glazer.
On top of that you expect him not to take divident and pump his own money to purchase player? Good luck with that
So there could be an astute observation here?
Agree with everything said and I would be happy doing anything that you have stated above are valid ideas. Think both your'e Hashtags have potential. It would be nice if the match-going fans brought in a banner, really hope it does catch on.
I'm not sure how many fans know this guy is a United fan with a genuine interest in football and has the funds to get us challenging. I think if more supporters knew about him the more of them would want him.
I've been trying to look for potential owners who might appeal to fans for a while, but clearly in the wrong places and the best I could have thoutht of was some Chinese businessman with an interest in football or hoping to find someone else from the USA who is a genuine soccer fan who would buy United and not use it as a business but as a way of making 'soccer' as they call it more popular in their country but I never thought we had someone who has all the potential qualities I would in an owner here:
- Enough wealth to buy the club and leave it spend its own money.
- Genuine interest in football.
- Not funded by money that will potentially divide some supporters opinions.
- To top it all of being a fan of the club.
Please do whatever we can to get this guy on board.
Lol, there's almost zero Saudi-Israeli tensions. If anything, it's almost a cordial relationship between the two, with MBS himself just last year saying that the Muslim world needs to forget about Palestine and recognise Israel. Which his dad King Salman quickly backtracked on when it caused furore everywhere.
Though they officially don't have relations, they are almost certainly do so incognito due to their mutual hatred of Iran and the fact that Qatar backs Hamas, as well as having closer relations with Turkey and also moving closer to Iran as well.
Meanwhile the Saudis, Bahrain and UAE are at the other end of the spectrum, with there being reports of UAE and Saudi definitely having backdoor negotiations with Israel about having diplomatic relations.
The Saudis are hated by the most other Arab States. They accused Abu Dhabi emirate of financing Al Khaida and other jihadi groups whilst they, the Saudis, finance similar organisations. None of them are clean but that doesn’t seem to bother the average footy fan. Abramovich has a shady past apparently so would United fans welcome the Saudis or perhaps the Church of England instead? If you worked screwing together fighter planes would in make you quit if it was used to kill innocent people? Morals and sport don’t mix.
If the Saudis did take over what a circus it would become. FFP is bollocks and doesn’t work. What sanctions has any club had if they have been breached. I believe some City fans even went to Law to see if it was legal. Post 2008 of course. City would be bankrupt if they were run as a normal company. Sheik Mansour made hundreds of millions out of a share deal with Barclays (the then sponsors of the PL but no conflict of interest ho ho).The BBC did a Panarama programme about and a team of twelve forensic accounts couldn’t find if he personally benefited from it. After two weeks they traced the paper trail to an company in Abu Dhabi which had Sheik Mansour as the Chairman and then the trail ended.
So Morals or money?
If the Saudis did take over what a circus it would become. FFP is bollocks and doesn’t work. What sanctions has any club had if they have been breached. I believe some City fans even went to Law to see if it was legal. Post 2008 of course. City would be bankrupt if they were run as a normal company. Sheik Mansour made hundreds of millions out of a share deal with Barclays (the then sponsors of the PL but no conflict of interest ho ho).The BBC did a Panarama programme about and a team of twelve forensic accounts couldn’t find if he personally benefited from it. After two weeks they traced the paper trail to an company in Abu Dhabi which had Sheik Mansour as the Chairman and then the trail ended.
So Morals or money?
Not moral, not money... It is about United not being humiliated again in the transfer market because we couldn't afford a single defender last summer while Chelsea paid a record price for their keeper and Liverpool going from strength to strength after acquiring Van Dijk... United deserved better than being a poor club not able to afford a single defender.
That is absolutely not the case.
There are very few football clubs that can realistically compete with United financially. With or without the Saudi's investment.
This isnt even a thing most likely.
My old military buddy who works in KSA doesn’t even think there is anything in this. He said there is nothing on the news or papers out there. Granted, they are probably biased and restricted but if the prince was interested you think they would be buiging it up big style.