Could Utd be sold soon?

Nothing and you can criticize them for that, i wish they would upgrade OT. But you can't say they have been penny pinching when it comes to the football side. They have been spending more than any other legitimately run non gulf state backed football club in the world the last few years.

Our struggles are not because of lack of spending and our success in the past wasn't built upon excessive spending either.

If you do re-read the pot you replied to, I did say spend money on the facilities etc. So I'm not focusing just on the footballing side of things.

Agree, we have spent a lot. The spending hasn't been great whatsoever. However, part of the problem has been the lack of future planning that has been put in place. We have an outdated footballing model. Who is in charge of bringing that up to scratch? Has to come from the top, the Glazers. If they're solely relying of Ed Woodward, well then he has done a poor job and get someone else in who can do the job.
 
Malcolm Glazers was one of the oil overlords who supported the war on Iraq in 2003 in attempts to have a piece of the iraqi oil cake, he was a friend of the war criminal G Bush and and his sons make fundraising for every republican candidate (lately Trump) to bully the world, they are not totally different from the Saudis and if they were living in the middles east I am sure they will act the same, in fact Afram Glazer is a good friend of MBS.

Not entirely sure this is correct. yes, Glazer at one time owned what was, at one time, an oil and gas company but by the time he took control is had struggled for a long time and basically dropped oil.
 
The more I read comments about this topic online (via Daily Mail, Twitter, Redcafe..etc) I find it laughable that we (the fans) think we have any say in the club been sold to SA Royals or anyone for that matter. Do you honestly think the Glazers care about the club? if Jim Jong Un came in with a £4-5bn bid we'd be sold in the morning.
At least Jim would fix it.
 
I don't either. I hate how my government engages in saber-rattling with Iran, while cozying up with the Saudis.

I don't think the solution is to decide where to draw the line when determining what billionaire should own the club. No billionaire should own a football club. Plus it cuts out 20 pages of waffling about why the Glazers are cool and the Sauds aren't.

I think the Germans do it right. Let the fans own majority shares in the club. Obviously they wouldn't directly run the club... a board would do that.
Yes the German model is brilliant but it´s not really how should I put this, Sexy in the millionaires country clubs.
 
No more overly politicized posts, especially from you, @AP88 — this is a contentious topic but learn to follow the forum rules. Start a CE/General discussion thread if you're opposed to monarchy's governance and policies. Refer this post from page 22!
This is not a political discussion about Saudi Arabia. Keep it on topic about the football aspects of this discussion or this thread will be closed.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/could-utd-be-sold-soon.442209/page-22#post-23190195
 
If you do re-read the pot you replied to, I did say spend money on the facilities etc. So I'm not focusing just on the footballing side of things.

I re-read it you did mate fair enough.

Agree, we have spent a lot. The spending hasn't been great whatsoever. However, part of the problem has been the lack of future planning that has been put in place. We have an outdated footballing model. Who is in charge of bringing that up to scratch? Has to come from the top, the Glazers. If they're solely relying of Ed Woodward, well then he has done a poor job and get someone else in who can do the job.

I agree the footballing side of things seems to have no direction. We are still relying on the way things were under Ferguson. SAF was a coach, manager and director of football all rolled into one. Our problem is no one man can replace what Ferguson did for us, we just haven't realized that yet.

We should have a group of people including Ferguson if his health allows it to make a plan on the football side of things. And leave the business people at the club to the business.
 
Why are the mods getting their knickers in a twist in this thread? What's the appeal with narrowly constraining the thread's discussion?
Putting my Holmes hat on I'd say the redcafe has been included in the Saudi takeover bid.

Certainly not because all mods are by nature hyper-sensitive milk monitors, that is just ridiculous.
 
Why are the mods getting their knickers in a twist in this thread? What's the appeal with narrowly constraining the thread's discussion?

It’s being taken off topic that’s why. This is a discussion about United being bought not the political intricacies of Saudi Arabia. Such talk belongs in the CE Forum.
 
It’s being taken off topic that’s why. This is a discussion about United being bought not the political intricacies of Saudi Arabia. Such talk belongs in the CE Forum.

the topic is United being bought by the Saudi regime specifically, hence what has been quite an interesting and revealing debate. remove the Saudi political intricacy context and what else is there to discuss?
 
I re-read it you did mate fair enough.



I agree the footballing side of things seems to have no direction. We are still relying on the way things were under Ferguson. SAF was a coach, manager and director of football all rolled into one. Our problem is no one man can replace what Ferguson did for us, we just haven't realized that yet.

We should have a group of people including Ferguson if his health allows it to make a plan on the football side of things. And leave the business people at the club to the business.

Bang on. Don't even get me started on how on earth we have not involved Saf within the footballing decisions. Just absolutely criminal.

Like I say, would Saudis be me ideal owners? No. Can we get better than Glazers? YES. I suppose part of me want the Saudis because of the good job the City guys have done. As a direct rival to them in terms of nation and football, I'd be hoping the Saudis would restore back some order. Rightly or wrongly, I just want be the best they can and at the moment,we're well behind on a lot of the big clubs.
 
the topic is United being bought by the Saudi regime specifically, hence what has been quite an interesting and revealing debate. remove the Saudi political intricacy context and what else is there to discuss?

How and why the Saudis, or anyone else, would be good/bad for the club. Suppose Niall is just saying you don't need to go into politics about the wrongs and rights of different nations. Which is a fair point.
 
This would be terrible for us, because you have to ask the question, "What is in it for them?"

They would make us into marketing tool for their country. Everything will be on the table. Renaming the club, the stadium, the crest, the kit. Re-writing our history with multi-million pound marketing campaigns. The cringey stuff that happens over at City would be ramped up to the max. We'd be a laughing stock. A fake club.
Why do you think that? Thats ludicrous
 
It’s being taken off topic that’s why. This is a discussion about United being bought not the political intricacies of Saudi Arabia. Such talk belongs in the CE Forum.
Hear Hear. If I thought it would have gone this deep I wouldnt have bothered. Trouble is someone else would.
 
Yeah, that would never happen. Why would they dilute the brand?
Exactly. They might as well just buy a lower league club, build a big stadium, call the club what they want and pay mega money for the top players to get them into the premier etc
 
the topic is United being bought by the Saudi regime specifically, hence what has been quite an interesting and revealing debate. remove the Saudi political intricacy context and what else is there to discuss?

And we've also had posts about the last few hundred years of human history around the globe, massive doses of whataboutism and even debates about Brexit. It's a United forum thread about United and the relationship/impact (financial, sporting and emotional) on the club and the fans of such a deal.

The history of the world in general, and the current geo-political status of the middle east and its global context, are best tackled in the CE.
 
Can't say I'm too happy about Saudi Royal Family taking the club due to obvious reasons but at the end of the day, I'll still support United and I'll still be over the moon when were blowing every other team out of the water again.

They won't even have to invest in us. We're self sustained and if we can spend to our limit - it will still be way too much for other clubs to compete.
 
If they sit back and throw money at the club for the sole purpose of being the best then why not.

If they want to get a bit more ‘hands on’ then it’s more of a concern.
 
So much morality here. Is money which is currently in club 100% clean? For example young kids worked for one dollar, 12 hours per day in bad conditions for adidas. Who knows what is happening with our other sponsors? GM sacked lots of workers in last few years while giving to us 50 mil per year. We can raise the stakes here and say that it is not moral to spend 10,20,100 mil for a player while people are starving in the world, in England, in Manchester.
Yes, Saudi regime is bad and it is something which we can't understand but if western democratic countries can accept their money and oil, then why we fans are so bothered with that?
Some of us give a shit, to be simplistic about it. About stuff in general too, not just United.

I've watched United slip into unethical behaviour more and more over the last few decades. Back when I bought my first replica shirt they were made predominantly by ladies in a factory in Cheshire. Then we signed up to Nike and they were made in countries where there were next to no labour laws, by people earning pennies, while they charged £50+ for them.

United "employ" hundreds of people on zero hour contracts while enjoying the status of being the world's most profitable club, paying feck all-in corporation taxes and basing themselves in the Cayman Islands so that even more money goes to the owners and none goes to HMRC.

Recently, it included these zero hour, zero-rights workers in its gender pay gap report, so that it skewed the figures to make them look progressive.

We recently signed a sponsorship deal with Uber, another company who share our tax-dodging, employee-shafting ways.

In terms of morals, it seems we're in a race to the bottom, and it doesn't sit well with me at all. A buy-out by an intollerant and brutal regime would be the final straw for many, I think.

As a club, we could actually try to take the lead and show the there's a better way to operate, in an ethical manner, fitting with the heritage of the city and making the most of our status as a brand leader. That kind of thing is much more important to me than how much we can spend on transfers . There's little chance of that happening with the leadership we have currently though, and zero if such a buy-out is to happen.
 
The whole of football is fu**ed tbh

Theres an argument that we may aswell get into bed with the bunch of tw**s that gives us unlimited money and allows to win a few more trophies (although would still be doubts if Woodward stayed involved).

Personally speaking I will carry on not funding it and watch from afar as I’ve done over the last few years. Fair play to anyone who sees past all the crap and carries on. Would be great to see us win another couple of European Cups but would it be as special as 68/99?
 
When were United ever able to blow everyone out of the water on a Domestic and/or European level in the transfer market?

United haven't been the biggest spenders in English football in any of the last 5 decades. In the 90's we were able to go big domestically on transfer fees for select players mostly due to an excellent academy producing a string of world class players. But with the wage structure in place at the club back then, (no player earned more than £25k per week) We could never compete with the European giants and even some of the other English clubs for top players. We lost out on the likes of Desailly to Chelsea and Ravanelli to fecking Middlesbrough because we couldn't compete with the wages they were offering those players.

The irony here of course is we probably have more financial power now than we've ever had in the past. United's success was never built upon spending big or at least outspending everyone else. It was built on excellent management, producing top youth players and making shrewd purchases mostly of other young promising players and developing them. Basically the exact opposite of what we've been doing since 2013.
What? We outspent everybody in English football from the 1960’s onwards until Abramovich came along in 2005. We maybe didn’t do it on a European basis, but we broke the British transfer record time and time again (and we still do).
 
Some of us give a shit, to be simplistic about it. About stuff in general too, not just United.

I've watched United slip into unethical behaviour more and more over the last few decades. Back when I bought my first replica shirt they were made predominantly by ladies in a factory in Cheshire. Then we signed up to Nike and they were made in countries where there were next to no labour laws, by people earning pennies, while they charged £50+ for them.

United "employ" hundreds of people on zero hour contracts while enjoying the status of being the world's most profitable club, paying feck all-in corporation taxes and basing themselves in the Cayman Islands so that even more money goes to the owners and none goes to HMRC.

Recently, it included these zero hour, zero-rights workers in its gender pay gap report, so that it skewed the figures to make them look progressive.

We recently signed a sponsorship deal with Uber, another company who share our tax-dodging, employee-shafting ways.

In terms of morals, it seems we're in a race to the bottom, and it doesn't sit well with me at all. A buy-out by an intollerant and brutal regime would be the final straw for many, I think.

As a club, we could actually try to take the lead and show the there's a better way to operate, in an ethical manner, fitting with the heritage of the city and making the most of our status as a brand leader. That kind of thing is much more important to me than how much we can spend on transfers . There's little chance of that happening with the leadership we have currently though, and zero if such a buy-out is to happen.

And that is very commendable of way viewing things. And I for one understand exactly what you're saying. Problem is, where do we stop? I was watching something on Guinness the other day and all the political stuff they went through from racism to corruption through the stock market etc. Would that stop me buying their drinks, no. What I'm trying to say is, it will become more and more difficult to not be involved, directly or in directly, with "pure" things in life.

Even if you have to take a step back and watch the team flourish, then fair enough. The thing is, Manchester United will continue with or without either of us.
 
Some of us give a shit, to be simplistic about it. About stuff in general too, not just United.

I've watched United slip into unethical behaviour more and more over the last few decades. Back when I bought my first replica shirt they were made predominantly by ladies in a factory in Cheshire. Then we signed up to Nike and they were made in countries where there were next to no labour laws, by people earning pennies, while they charged £50+ for them.

United "employ" hundreds of people on zero hour contracts while enjoying the status of being the world's most profitable club, paying feck all-in corporation taxes and basing themselves in the Cayman Islands so that even more money goes to the owners and none goes to HMRC.

Recently, it included these zero hour, zero-rights workers in its gender pay gap report, so that it skewed the figures to make them look progressive.

We recently signed a sponsorship deal with Uber, another company who share our tax-dodging, employee-shafting ways.

In terms of morals, it seems we're in a race to the bottom, and it doesn't sit well with me at all. A buy-out by an intollerant and brutal regime would be the final straw for many, I think.

As a club, we could actually try to take the lead and show the there's a better way to operate, in an ethical manner, fitting with the heritage of the city and making the most of our status as a brand leader. That kind of thing is much more important to me than how much we can spend on transfers . There's little chance of that happening with the leadership we have currently though, and zero if such a buy-out is to happen.

Superb post.

If the takeover goes ahead and both clubs are owned by such dubious characters, then a third Manchester club should be created; potentially buying Oldham and their place in the football league, for morally adequate fans who no longer identify with the vulgarity of modern Manc football.

Our City shouldn’t be globally affiliated with such tyranny.
 
Yes the German model is brilliant but it´s not really how should I put this, Sexy in the millionaires country clubs.

There are plenty of millionaires with huge influence at German clubs, it is just that the hurdle to enter is much different in many cases than just buying the club. Dietmar Hopp, Martin Kind, Klaus-Michael Kühne, Didi Mateschitz, Clemens Tönnies just to name a few. There are also a large number of companies whose engagement at some clubs goes way beyond just sponsorship (Bayer, Adidas, Audi, Mercedes, VW, Allianz etc.).

The difference is that it's not foreign billionaires from the US, Russia or the Middle East who are running the show. It is rich people / companies from Germany / Austria, but still a millionaires club to a big extent.
 
Superb post.

If the takeover goes ahead and both clubs are owned by such dubious characters, then a third Manchester club should be created; potentially buying Oldham and their place in the football league, for morally adequate fans who no longer identify with the vulgarity of modern Manc football.

Our City shouldn’t be globally affiliated with such tyranny.
Is this an ironic post?
 
What? We outspent everybody in English football from the 1960’s onwards until Abramovich came along in 2005. We maybe didn’t do it on a European basis, but we broke the British transfer record time and time again (and we still do).
Completely incorrect. Plenty of clubs outspent us. In Sir Alex's time at United, we were consistently outspent by Liverpool. We were frequently outspent by Blackburn and Newcastle in the 90s too. Liverpool, and Everton in the 80s, Arsenal in the 70s. The sixties I have no idea, but other than Denis Law, we hardly broke the bank every year.
 
If the Saudis want to buy United,I have no problem with it. We are fecked under the Glazers. It is a business to them. They only care about profits, not about winning on the pitch as demonstrated by Woodwards claim that "Playing performance doesn’t really have a meaningful impact on what we can do on the commercial side of the business"

The Saudis would want us to win on the pitch to raise their profile. They would invest in the 1st team, ground, facilities, youth. It's a no brainer.

The Glazers would get £1b (if the £4b price is to be believed)

I see no downside
 
It's frightening the amount of people who seem to know what a new Saudi group as owners would do with the club or what their interests are. All good things of course.

Saudis good.

Americans bad.
 
If the Saudis want to buy United,I have no problem with it. We are fecked under the Glazers. It is a business to them. They only care about profits, not about winning on the pitch as demonstrated by Woodwards claim that "Playing performance doesn’t really have a meaningful impact on what we can do on the commercial side of the business"

The Saudis would want us to win on the pitch to raise their profile. They would invest in the 1st team, ground, facilities, youth. It's a no brainer.

The Glazers would get £1b (if the £4b price is to be believed)

I see no downside
Spot on this. Utd would probably be given a £500m transfer kitty every window!! No brainer.
 
I would welcome them with open arms. Imagine what we can do with huge financial backing, it would help in every aspect of the club & possibly even the local community. Remember Arabs love to compete & when you have the Abu Dhabi’s on the other side I don’t think the Saudis would shy away from competing toe to toe even being far superior than our City rivals. You only have look at the Middle East student population in Manchester & the Uk all thanks to the Arab investment which in turn boosts our economy too.
A Win win situation for everyone!
 
The Saudis PR could not really ne lower than it is now for obvious reasons. It will blow over and United could be the way they recover from this.