Could they void the PL due to the Coronavirus? | No | Resuming June 17th

Only way a CL will happen next season if its a straight knockout over 2 legs - or maybe even one at a neutral venue.

Late october/Nov/Dec/Jan , Europe will most likely be hit by another increase of Covid and the Flu season - no way CL will be going on during that
 
groovyalbert said:
Problem is consistency, and the trickle down probable legal effect this would then have on teams looking to come up from the Championship.

By applying final league standings to you/Liverpool being legitimately recognised champions, and in turn ruling out relegation, where does this leave clubs going for European places? Which bracket of legitimacy/voiding to they fall into?

And it isn't just champions/relegation that are the issues, every single final placing in a table has it's implications - financially and in terms of European qualification.

Do you then go through the league picking out which team deserves to have their performances this season legitimised? How do you implement a system that does this fairly?

I think all would agree that Liverpool would win the league. But then you would have far more people agreeing that Norwich would be relegated than Aston Villa/Bournemouth. Is it fair that Norwich survive because those 2 clubs are so close on points?

It's a fecking horrible scenario no matter how you look at it, and with clubs seemingly having to agree on the final outcome, I don't see how we reach any conclusion any time soon.

This is all assuming that the league isn't able to play out remaining games. And it's because of the above that I can totally understand why they want to find a way of playing remaining games.
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I agree nothing in this is easy. But some people seem to think that voiding (even though its never been an option) is a simple solution. There will be no solution which applies total consistency across the PL and other leagues - that solution doesn't exist. The PL and EFL (assuming football doesn't restart) have to find the solution which is the least unfair.
 
Berbaclass said:
The arrogance and entitlement from the Liverpool side is crazy :lol:
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Absolutely amazing :lol: At this point, who honestly give a feck anymore? At any rate, if they decide to «give» Liverpool the title it will forever be tainted and not «real»! Meh.
 
SirAF said:
Absolutely amazing :lol: At this point, who honestly give a feck anymore? At any rate, if they decide to «give» Liverpool the title it will forever be tainted and not «real»! Meh.
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It's got to the point where they have actually convinced themselves that certain things are facts when they aren't. But in doing so it helps them believe they will ultimately get what they want.

If anything I would have thought the pandemic would have taught people to keep an open mind and not be surprised by anything. In this instance obviously not!
 
Finn MacCool said:
UEFA ordered the PL not award the title to LFC in those circumstances - must have missed that.
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Ive already addressed this. They didnt mention awarding league titles or promotion or relegation. They simply ordered that European places need decided on sporting merit.

They hold no power on what happens in individual leagues, only their own competitions.

Take your head of the sand, uefa cant and havent ordered the pl to give liverpool the title
 
arnie_ni said:
He quoted NHS quidance, i didnt read it, but are they not a valuable resource.

For what its worth i think the chances of a player being adversely effected by it is minimal.

My biggest concern is them getting it and passing it on to some it will effect greatly, and the image it will portray to the public, 22 men running around a pitch playing a contact sport when the government is telling everyone else to be vigilant.
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Actually the chances are at near certainty level if we were to restart now. If we assumed 50 players and staff at each of the PL teams' training grounds, 20 clubs, that's about 1000 people. The death rate in the population at large for people under 40 is pretty low, maybe 0.2% I think? So that would be 2 deaths if everyone got it. Not too bad, particularly as it's unlikely everyone gets it. However, the rate of people who need intensive care treatment is at least double that, probably a lot more. So if we assumed for the sake of argument that 25% of these people got the virus, we'd expect a minimum of one person to go to the ICU and probably a lot more.

Now if you go to the ICU, and particularly if you're put on a ventilator, your recovery is not straight forward. Most people take months to recover, in the worst cases up to around a year to 18 months. And we still don't actually know for sure whether it is likely to cause permanent lung damage or just temporary. I would imagine a loss of even 5% of lung capacity as an athlete is a pretty big issue, and it seems at this point like it can be a lot more in some cases.
 
Berbaclass said:
The arrogance and entitlement from the Liverpool side is crazy :lol:
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I don't think them arguing that they would/deserve to win the league is arrogance.

The problem I think is people failing to understand is that by Liverpool being considered legitimate champions, then you're in turn saying that every game they played this season:

a) happened
b) happened in accordance to the league rules that were in place when the season started
c) the implication of their achievements this season are then carried into 20/21 (whenever that will be).

If one team has access to this, irregardless of how they performed over the course of the season, how do you then look at the other 19 teams in that same competition and not take into consideration their performance?

If relegation is not going to happen, then for all intense and purposes, the games in which those teams played were effectively meaningless. So what do you then do with the games where Liverpool played Norwich for instance? How could that game have legitimate meaning for one team and not the other?
 
Id like a liverpool fan to go down through all the leagues and give us what they think should happen.

Draw out a viable solution. Id love to see it and dicuss its merits.

Every individual league will have its own kinks
 
TwoSheds said:
Actually the chances are at near certainty level if we were to restart now. If we assumed 50 players and staff at each of the PL teams' training grounds, 20 clubs, that's about 1000 people. The death rate in the population at large for people under 40 is pretty low, maybe 0.2% I think? So that would be 2 deaths if everyone got it. Not too bad, particularly as it's unlikely everyone gets it. However, the rate of people who need intensive care treatment is at least double that, probably a lot more. So if we assumed for the sake of argument that 25% of these people got the virus, we'd expect a minimum of one person to go to the ICU and probably a lot more.

Now if you go to the ICU, and particularly if you're put on a ventilator, your recovery is not straight forward. Most people take months to recover, in the worst cases up to around a year to 18 months. And we still don't actually know for sure whether it is likely to cause permanent lung damage or just temporary. I would imagine a loss of even 5% of lung capacity as an athlete is a pretty big issue, and it seems at this point like it can be a lot more in some cases.
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I'd only add that we have already seen one player end up on ventilators in France. Luckily, Junior Sambia pulled through, but it's not as if there wouldn't be many more cases if the thing starts spreading.
 
arnie_ni said:
Id like a liverpool fan to go down through all the leagues and give us what they think should happen.

Draw out a viable solution. Id love to see it and dicuss its merits.

Every individual league will have its own kinks
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Thats what I said earlier - no one size fits all solution is possible. Clubs will be unhappy and may take legal action.
 
groovyalbert said:
I don't think them arguing that they would/deserve to win the league is arrogance.

The problem I think is people failing to understand is that by Liverpool being considered legitimate champions, then you're in turn saying that every game they played this season:

a) happened
b) happened in accordance to the league rules that were in place when the season started
c) the implication of their achievements this season are then carried into 20/21 (whenever that will be).

If one team has access to this, irregardless of how they performed over the course of the season, how do you then look at the other 19 teams in that same competition and not take into consideration their performance?

If relegation is not going to happen, then for all intense and purposes, the games in which those teams played were effectively meaningless. So what do you then do with the games where Liverpool played Norwich for instance? How could that game have legitimate meaning for one team and not the other?
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They deserve to win the title obviously, I don't think anybody would argue against that. They have been the best team.

What I don't like is the arrogance, this attitude which comes across like "give us the title and disregard everything else"

Maybe it's broad strokes but that's how it comes across to me.
 
Finn MacCool said:
I agree nothing in this is easy. But some people seem to think that voiding (even though its never been an option) is a simple solution. There will be no solution which applies total consistency across the PL and other leagues - that solution doesn't exist. The PL and EFL (assuming football doesn't restart) have to find the solution which is the least unfair.
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I mean, in principle, it is a simple solution. It requires no real thinking beyond it's immediate implication, particularly if you just carried on from the previous season's table.

It's fecking unsatisfactory though, and a legal/contractual nightmare. I don't think it will happen.
 
Reckon they’ll call the season off but give Liverpool the title regardless. So, with an asterisk. Fans will endlessly debate whether they have one more or one less than they should have.

No relegations or European places, and I have my doubts there will be any European competition at all next season. At least not this calendar year.
 
arnie_ni said:
So why are you dismissing it of hand?
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Because I don't think that the PL will vote against LFC getting the title. Ajax were level on points, it would have been impossible to justify awarding them the title. I doubt many of the other 19 clubs would feel aggrieved if LFC are awarded the title.
 
arnie_ni said:
Yes, its a huge possibility, because uefa ordered it. How many times...
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Berbaclass said:
It's certainly on the table at this point.
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:lol: It's the hope that kills guys. I've said it about four times already in the last few months.

Not long ago you were happy to mark the Liverpool thread Champions in November even if to jinx it. More likely you wanted to accept the fact to lessen the pain. And then here comes covid to open up that wound, and a salt shaker.

Words like "It's a huge possibility" and "It's certainly on the table" is not helping you lot. I have never seen any league win rubbed in rival's faces before as much as this one. Sweet Groundhog Day. :D
 
El Zoido said:
Reckon they’ll call the season off but give Liverpool the title regardless. So, with an asterisk. Fans will endlessly debate whether they have one more or one less than they should have.

No relegations or European places, and I have my doubts there will be any European competition at all next season. At least not this calendar year.
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I don't think they'll give Liverpool the title without it being mathematically won. The only reason the PL are pursuing finishing the league is for the $$ and working with UEFA on European qualification standings.
 
christinaa said:
You and Megaman have been churning out the same arguments (if we can call them that!) and always with the ''quite likely'' Title winner and no relegation just because you just want one thing and nothing else - Liverpool being gifted the League at all costs.

Null and Void.
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Where have I said that?

I've never been in favour of no relegation? Please don't suggest I have said things that I haven't.
 
Finn MacCool said:
Because I don't think that the PL will vote against LFC getting the title. Ajax were level on points, it would have been impossible to justify awarding them the title. I doubt many of the other 19 clubs would feel aggrieved if LFC are awarded the title.
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If Liverpool had earned their title before the suspension, they would be mathematically based as Champions. They aren't and anything less destroys the integrity of the trophy which the Premier League won't want to do.
 
groovyalbert said:
I mean, in principle, it is a simple solution. It requires no real thinking beyond it's immediate implication, particularly if you just carried on from the previous season's table.

It's fecking unsatisfactory though, and a legal/contractual nightmare. I don't think it will happen.
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Yes in terms of simplicity its the number one solution. Void, bang, all gone. But simplicity won't be the factor that decides this - it will be a combination of contractual obligations and trying to come up with the least damaging option.
 
VP89 said:
If Liverpool had earned their title before the suspension, they would be mathematically based as Champions. They aren't and anything less destroys the integrity of the trophy which the Premier League won't want to do.
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There will quite rightly be an asterisk. Even if it gets restarted there will be an asterisk.
 
Finn MacCool said:
There will quite rightly be an asterisk. Even if it gets restarted there will be an asterisk.
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I reckon the Premier League would rather suspend and apply european qualification on ppg or current rankings, than put an asterisk. Awarding a title when a title is not won will massively dent the image of the Premier League trophy, and I strongly doubt they would be daft enough to do that.

As mentioned earlier, they are only really pursuing a restart for monetary reasons, nothing else. If they can't pursue the league they won't bother damaging things further by giving titles with an asterisk.
 
Dumbstar said:
:lol: It's the hope that kills guys. I've said it about four times already in the last few months.

Not long ago you were happy to mark the Liverpool thread Champions in November even if to jinx it. More likely you wanted to accept the fact to lessen the pain. And then here comes covid to open up that wound, and a salt shaker.

Words like "It's a huge possibility" and "It's certainly on the table" is not helping you lot. I have never seen any league win rubbed in rival's faces before as much as this one. Sweet Groundhog Day. :D
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Your totalling missing what everyone is saying here.

90 percent of us have no objection to liverpool being awarded (note not given, but yes awarded, because it was earned) the title, if a consistent decision is applied across all leaves solving the promotion and relegation issue.

You can't just give liverpool the title and decide feck the rest of it.
 
Finn MacCool said:
Yes in terms of simplicity its the number one solution. Void, bang, all gone. But simplicity won't be the factor that decides this - it will be a combination of contractual obligations and trying to come up with the least damaging option.
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Yeah, completely agree.

What I would like to see happen is UEFA/FIFA come out and say there will be no international/European competitions which require teams to travel overseas until there's a vaccine/we're back to something resembling normality.

This would allow major leagues to work to their own timeline/specific internal complications. We all know Germany will be able to return to a normal football season before the UK. Having these leagues working to the same deadlines is overly optimistic/dangerous.

It would also allow the Premier League to be more flexible with the deadline they set for the current season/can avoid starting next season when further lockdown interruptions are likely. There would be contractual difficulties, but this scenario would allow the league/clubs to find bespoke solution and have greater flexibility.
 
VP89 said:
I reckon the Premier League would rather suspend and apply european qualification on ppg or current rankings, than put an asterisk. Awarding a title when a title is not won will massively dent the image of the Premier League trophy, and I strongly doubt they would be daft enough to do that.

As mentioned earlier, they are only really pursuing a restart for monetary reasons, nothing else. If they can't pursue the league they won't bother damaging things further by giving titles with an asterisk.
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I can't seem them awarding European places to teams so tightly packed together and not awarding the title to someone so far ahead. Ideally they don't want anything awarded without 38 games being played but a restart looks very difficult so they'll have to make some tough choices soon.
 
Finn MacCool said:
I can't seem them awarding European places to teams so tightly packed together and not awarding the title to someone so far ahead. Ideally they don't want anything awarded without 38 games being played but a restart looks very difficult so they'll have to make some tough choices soon.
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Again, they wouldnt be awarding European places based on an uncompleted league unless ordered to do so.
 
groovyalbert said:
Yeah, completely agree.

What I would like to see happen is UEFA/FIFA come out and say there will be no international/European competitions which require teams to travel overseas until there's a vaccine/we're back to something resembling normality.

This would allow major leagues to work to their own timeline/specific internal complications. We all know Germany will be able to return to a normal football season before the UK. Having these leagues working to the same deadlines is overly optimistic/dangerous.

It would also allow the Premier League to be more flexible with the deadline they set for the current season/can avoid starting next season when further lockdown interruptions are likely. There would be contractual difficulties, but this scenario would allow the league/clubs to find bespoke solution and have greater flexibility.
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This is exactly what I would like. UEFA's deadlines have really put pressure on leagues which doesn't have to be there. UEFA will look silly if they don't start their CL/EL qualifiers in late July after forcing leagues into deadlines. Player contracts are a big issue though. Whichever way you turn there is a huge obstacle ahead.
 
Dumbstar said:
:lol: It's the hope that kills guys. I've said it about four times already in the last few months.

Not long ago you were happy to mark the Liverpool thread Champions in November even if to jinx it. More likely you wanted to accept the fact to lessen the pain. And then here comes covid to open up that wound, and a salt shaker.

Words like "It's a huge possibility" and "It's certainly on the table" is not helping you lot. I have never seen any league win rubbed in rival's faces before as much as this one. Sweet Groundhog Day. :D
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The irony of this when your own fans are doing the exact same in reverse.

:lol:
 
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