#5 total tiki taka in my mind is being able to play both, when messi wanted to be direct the midfield knew what to do, same goes for cruyff here. Suffocate the other team of possession and have a variety of ways to attack, that’s the overall plan here.
Coronavirus Draft - R1 - Isotope vs DVG7
- Thread starter GodShaveTheQueen
- Start date
#5 total tiki taka in my mind is being able to play both, when messi wanted to be direct the midfield knew what to do, same goes for cruyff here. Suffocate the other team of possession and have a variety of ways to attack, that’s the overall plan here.
I don't think that I was supposed to answer that question, but it's surely a no — but it's worth mentioning that it goes another way as well. Busquets sometimes, well, not struggles, but, however press-resistant, he's not as good as he can be when there's a Griezmann-like number 10 that operates in the same area and constantly disrupts his tempo. While Laudrup will operate in the same area, he's hardly going to provide any issues to Busquets without the ball, and it's a great bonus for Xavi & Iniesta, as they would need such a pressure-relief figure at the back with Matthäus & Breitner constantly being a nuisance.
Someone like Simeone would probably ask Law or Eto'o to keep tabs on Busquets (or, rather, not start Laudrup at all
).Thanks for the update mate, I'm fecking sick of these drafts.
It´s the Kicker reporting this. They claim it was decided on a video conference between the 36 clubs in german 1st. and 2nd. Bundesliga. Games will be played behind closed doors from the first Weekend in may.
Sweeper keeper in the 50's and in today's game is entirely different matter though. In a very specific setup that requires a lot in certain positions I'm really dubious without even slightest footage supporting that theory.
Carrizo is a solid keeper from what I know but there are many other that IMO fit the bill better and also are better keepers as a whole. Not just Neuer.
I don't think that I was supposed to answer that question, but it's surely a no — but it's worth mentioning that it goes another way as well. Busquets sometimes, well, not struggles, but, however press-resistant, he's not as good as he can be when there's a Griezmann-like number 10 that operates in the same area and constantly disrupts his tempo. While Laudrup will operate in the same area, he's hardly going to provide any issues to Busquets without the ball, and it's a great bonus for Xavi & Iniesta, as they would need such a pressure-relief figure at the back with Matthäus & Breitner constantly being a nuisance.
Someone like Simeone would probably ask Law or Eto'o to keep tabs on Busquets (or, rather, not start Laudrup at all
nailed it pretty well here. I think it’s too much for Breitner and matthaus to disrupt on their own, and busquets (free of any real pressure) gets the opportunity to influence the game in a way that best suits his skill set.
it’s one of the reasons why I love these drafts so much, is that in a historical context a player might not carry much weight in a GOAT list, but when up against certain opposition and tactics you can see the conditions that would be created to let them shine, and this applies to busquets here.
I rate Marcelo a lot actually and especially in attacking sense. However in a high line he will no doubt leave some space behind for Eto'o and Kaltz to exploit with him on the backfoot.
You have two uber attacking full backs which leaves IMO a lot for your midfield unit to exert control over the game and also keep the ball and possession and minimize the danger.
On one hand it's true that it's a proven unit and gelled well together but on the other hand you have Matthaus, Breitner and Laurdup against that unit, which despite not playing together and having a proven harmony is not only as good as, but probably even better midfield all things considered.
Robben, Cruyff and Rensenbrink would definitely prefer a more direct approach to tiki taka, albeit of course being able to play in such a system.
There is a difference in Messi in false 9 in that team and Cruyff as false 9. Messi for one was not the one dictating play but Xavi, and with Cruyff in false 9 - he would definitely be the one that would want to dictate play.
Not saying that they can't play together or mesh well, but remains a bit of a question mark for me, which style would dominate with Cruyff and Xavi in - the more direct or the full tiki taka.
Breitner matthaus and laudrup is better than the most successful midfield 3 of all time, who played their part together in arguably the best club side of all time? You must be having a laugh. Breitner was hardly the best defensively, and given how little he will see of the ball that has to count against him.
Javi Martinez/Schweinsteiger midfield drubbed them 7-0 over two legs. That Barca midfield as a unit is one of the best ever -true, but that doesn't mean that it is invincible. They didn't play against what is on show here and Breitner/Matthaus are one of the very best b2b midfielders in history, let alone Laudrup who is one of the best playmakers in history and will pose ton of problems for Busquets.
In short - I don't think any midfield would dominate in the same extend what Iso is fielding here, including the Barca one.
I'd definitely preferred a more aggressive libero instead of Schulz for Isotope that can also add numbers to the midfield battle the way Cruyff would which on the other hand works in your favour to balance it out.
remember we consider peaks so not sure how relevant the Bayern thrashing is.
Discussion over from me, not sure where @Isotope is but it was the same last game where I spoke to everyone except my opponent.
It's only been up since this morning, I'm guessing he'll be around tonight.
If it was the case that we were only going on proven partnerships these drafts would be dead. Its not inconceivable that the best midfield we've ever seen could be improved upon with players that weren't available to them at the time.
Ah I didn’t say for now. My bad, meant will chat more when he shows up.
not necessarily because not often do people get to put SUCH a proven midfield all together. I’d expect any manager to make the same point as I’m making.
Depends on what you consider their peak then. In 12/13 when they lost to Bayern they walked the league with 100 points. Just the Summer before they won the EURO and Busquets became a prominent part of that midfield just 3 years before that, Iniesta was 29 and Xavi only was on the way down, but still in his prime.
On the plus side you have Cruyff offering more support to it compared to Messi, which is why a more aggressive libero would've been better for Isotope or at least one of the CB's to be comfortable in the hole. That might probably be Santamaria who played in that zone or as a DM, but again I'll leave it to the other manager to explain his tactics.
Sorry mate. It's been a bad week, with my stocks on free fall.
Busquets at his peak is really an enigma. He doesn't look powerful, but he's good at nipping or shielding the ball. And his chemistry with Xavi and Iniesta can't be denied. But there's always the feel that he's part of well oiled machine, but not really a great player.
Can Laudrup disrupt Busquets? Of course. Laudrup isn't a stationary player. He plays deep, on the left, or up front. I'm not sure it is Busquet style to be man marking Laudrup everywhere. But then the game isn't always X against Y, I think.
Thanks, mate.
Wow. Thanks for the compliment, man. I had some help there with choosing the formation.
I'd say that one of the reason of Barca's domination in midfield is their highline defence. With Godin there, I'm not sure how this work. He's a wonderful CB, undeniably one of the best; but he build his name on low block defence. Whether with A. Madrid or Uruguay. A minor thing, he's not an aggressive type also, which is not really complimentary to Rio's there.
Last edited:
Two really good sides first of all, and an interesting tactical matchup.
DVG's front six is great, imo. I'd expect Cruijff to be able to adapt his game somewhat for the sake of the philosophy, although I can understand the arguments against it. But I'd give him the benefit of the doubt, so an absolutely stunning midfield & attack for me.
I agree with concerns about the defense - Godin looks out of place here. Other CBs would be better suited for protecting that high line, like Puyol or, ahem, Boateng. Paired with the fact that the super-offensive FB is on Godin's side, this might be a promising route for Eto'o to go 1 on 1 on the counter. And I see Suurbier as more suited for 70s totaalvoetbal than full-on tiki taka.
The keeper requirements are also very specific in such a setup, and I'd easily prefer someone like Victor Valdes to 95% of the usually drafted keepers, including several GOATs. I get the idea behind Carrizo, but @Enigma_87's questions are valid.
2. is something I often ask myself with these narrow 5-2-1-2 setups (as opposed to 5-2-3 with two half-wide attackers and one CF). In this case, I think a Breitner/Matthäus CM looks capable of giving some additional cover for wide areas. All in all, I think Iso's back 7 looks capable of making a stand against the onslaught, and also has a chance against high counterpressing after winning the ball.
DVG's front six is great, imo. I'd expect Cruijff to be able to adapt his game somewhat for the sake of the philosophy, although I can understand the arguments against it. But I'd give him the benefit of the doubt, so an absolutely stunning midfield & attack for me.
I agree with concerns about the defense - Godin looks out of place here. Other CBs would be better suited for protecting that high line, like Puyol or, ahem, Boateng. Paired with the fact that the super-offensive FB is on Godin's side, this might be a promising route for Eto'o to go 1 on 1 on the counter. And I see Suurbier as more suited for 70s totaalvoetbal than full-on tiki taka.
The keeper requirements are also very specific in such a setup, and I'd easily prefer someone like Victor Valdes to 95% of the usually drafted keepers, including several GOATs. I get the idea behind Carrizo, but @Enigma_87's questions are valid.
Totally agree with 1.
2. is something I often ask myself with these narrow 5-2-1-2 setups (as opposed to 5-2-3 with two half-wide attackers and one CF). In this case, I think a Breitner/Matthäus CM looks capable of giving some additional cover for wide areas. All in all, I think Iso's back 7 looks capable of making a stand against the onslaught, and also has a chance against high counterpressing after winning the ball.
Last edited:
DVG's team is easy on the eyes, that's for sure. I think my team can win this game, but admittedly DVG has higher ceiling to improve on later stages. So there you go.
The double wings isn't possible, as I'm not sure it's DVG position to leave his 2 CBs and Busquets one-on-one against my front 3. Unless the quality is fast difference, I think the advantage is always on the attackers for this scenario.
theyll recover eventually
Lot's of FOMO buy. It may take many years for me to get back, if there's chance at all. Anyway, good team, mate. I didn't have yours on my top 10 list, but it just shows my shit judgement on this Draft thing.
This was a really tough call and I was almost considering not voting but eventually went with DVG7.
As much as I love Isotope's team, for me Schulz and Santamaria is one area which doesn't inspire confidence in me that it can hold on against a juggernaut.
I did read Isotope's comment on leaving his front 3 against just the CB's and Busquets, but that is how peak Barca functioned. I am also not a fan of Godin there, but it's not a deal breaker for me.
Best game of the round this, along with harms vs 2mufc0.
As much as I love Isotope's team, for me Schulz and Santamaria is one area which doesn't inspire confidence in me that it can hold on against a juggernaut.
I did read Isotope's comment on leaving his front 3 against just the CB's and Busquets, but that is how peak Barca functioned. I am also not a fan of Godin there, but it's not a deal breaker for me.
Best game of the round this, along with harms vs 2mufc0.
Gone for DVG I don't think Laudrup would cause Busquets enough issues when Busquets is on the ball.
I did read this earlier and disagree with the general premise that it has to be the No.10 to press Busquets.
Both Law and Eto'o had tremendous workrate and I would expect one or both of them to join the press against the opposition midfield while Laudrup plays the Sneijder role when Jose beat Barca.
If both the strikers aren't hassling that defence then the out ball is still on constantly.
I can't see it working without all 11 pulling in the same direction and Laudrup stands out here in that regard.
I would like to see Cruyff in a system like this, being the father of all these possession systems I'm certain he would adapt. Give him the captaincy to massage his ego, let him stay in more attacking positions, let the midfield play make and I wouldn't be surprised if he would put up Messi numbers.
This is also one of the few teams built around Xavi that plays to a lot of his strengths, he's a very specific player but in the right system he's an incredible player.
This is also one of the few teams built around Xavi that plays to a lot of his strengths, he's a very specific player but in the right system he's an incredible player.
I think the strikers can do both the jobs, but that is just how I see it
Also don't think all 11 need to contribute. I don't think Sneijder did much defensive work when 10 man Inter beat Barca. Having 10 defensive workers except Laudrup already is a great achievement for me.
it’s all very well if they press, but busquets is an absolute master at finding an outlet and here, he will more often than not have my full backs in plenty space to receive and then get me higher up the pitch.
Busquets at his absolute peak is a player You don’t keep pressing, because he makes it very clear early doors that you are not getting the ball from him and he isnt going to give it away. There was a time when he gave the ball away and the commentators exclaimed that they had never seen that before. My team when they have the ball have too many options, they’ll keep it for as long as they want.
Yea it's not black and white in anyone's favor. I am not saying Busquets will struggle but I also disagree that he will have a free run. Law and Eto'o will make sure of that. Will be a well contested area of the pitch that.
As I recall Sneijder worked pretty hard, more than an average luxury 10. It's also a pre requisite for Jose's number ten, he sold off Mata in favour of Oscar mainly due to work rate.I think the strikers can do both the jobs, but that is just how I see it
Also don't think all 11 need to contribute. I don't think Sneijder did much defensive work when 10 man Inter beat Barca. Having 10 defensive workers except Laudrup already is a great achievement for me.
Maybe I'll have to rewatch the specific game, but from what I remember, he played as the furthest man forward after they went down to 10 men waiting for the balls being pumped out. He was no longer playing the No 10 role
Too hard to judge Law’s pressing abilities here, and feel like peak eto’o wasn’t bombing around like tevez. You saw if often, especially in the 5-0 Barca v real game, once those three knock it around you a few times, you stop trying as hard. Laudrup is a luxury player in this regard.
Nah, he was excellent off the ball. Even better than Eto'o.
I don’t think either are good enough to do a thing to disrupt a peak Barca midfield, they would definitely need more help than laudrup will give them.
That game was a different classic altogether.
And that was both a tactical feck up and a big lesson in Jose' career. That was probably the first and last time he played a 4231 against Barcelona with Real Madrid. He started Ozil there and the game was lost even before he started. After that, he always played only 433. Ozil never started a Classico with Jose after that as a number 10.
And before you point out that Laudrup is Ozil here, you have to remember, a 3-5-2 is very different to a 4231 and Madrid had Cristiano already who wouldn't contribute much off the ball. Here, there is no one else apart from Laudrup who wouldn't contribute.
I recall that season quite well and imo he was one of the the best players in the world in that short period, he was the main link up with their counters, often dropping deep to pick up the ball.
No single player in history can disrupt a whole midfield on his own, let alone the Barca one. But Law was good enough off the ball to disrupt Busi for me. Others who have watched Law can add perhaps.
I wouldn't call that as working off the ball. Linking up is a different aspect which is more during possession rather than off the ball.