We have pretty much nothing in common with that Bayern team? It is clearly reference to Sacchi Milan.
Edit: and you probably even less with that Barca team imo. Am over, p-nut is the only one who will post until the end.
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Coronavirus Champions League - QF - Harms vs Peanut/Jam
- Thread starter GodShaveTheQueen
- Start date
We have pretty much nothing in common with that Bayern team? It is clearly reference to Sacchi Milan.
Edit: and you probably even less with that Barca team imo. Am over, p-nut is the only one who will post until the end.
It's the general point that you make that pressing always work. It doesn't, and it's a high risk when your opponent is well-suited for you. You can't really press me in the initial stage — considering van der Sar, I'll always have a numerical advantage in the build-up, all of whom are great on the ball. That's where your point already ends, really, since I'm not pinned down in the first place.
How are you going to pin me down, when I have van der Sar, Chumpitaz, Baresi, Campbell, Branco & Carlos Alberto and you have Nedved-Riva-Cruyff-Beckham pressing them?
Pressing is a game of numbers. In 3-5-2 vs 4-4-2, you don't have them.
Press is not only about numbers, it is about stoping the first wave of attack until the defence get together, it is about counter-press to get the ball instantly, it is about closing the passing lines and pushing your opponent where we want him to be. Especially, when your team presses collectively.
And you don't have that well-suited team to deal with it at all.
Come on Harms you know it's not only about numbers. People play 352 all the time against Liverpool and it doesn't mean their press fails time and again. Its about the team working as one and closing those spaces. Where you're actually going to want to play.
It is about numbers. Liverpool plays 4-3-3 and this formation actually counters 3-5-2 very well.
I really don't know why you keep saying that, what exactly in my team is not suited to counter your devastating pressing?
I've never understood why people have argued otherwise. He has clearly played in wide roles to an extremely high level.
433 has 3 players closing down that back 5, but here with 4 you think it'll be worse off? How is that a numbers game then?
Your team has no major x-factor beyond Gullit. Teams that have been hugely press resistant have had an x-factor attacker that makes the presses have to think twice before committing too much.
Also the game you linked earlier with Barcelona vs Bayern, that Barcelona team had Busquets, Iniesta and Rakitic in the midfield. Your midfield is completely different and set up to play a completely different game.
Take Robson for instance, one heck of a player, but your first thought isn't press resistance and knocking the ball around to beat a man
There are different kinds of press and below is how I looked at them.
Pep's press was pressing with numbers. You didn't have hard workers, instead you had smart players who knew when, where and which space to press in numbers.
Sacchi's press was pressing in zonal fashion while still keeping the shape of the team same. So you were supposed to press the player in you zone while the team still maintained it condensed shape.
From one of my old games - you'd notice its not a press with numbers.
The Sacchi 4-4-2 with its 2 man midfield with a creative playmaker no less works despite the lack of numbers in midfield for precisely this reason. Everyone presses at one point or the other in their zones but the shape of team remains the same in a small condensed area.
Compact and coherent movement in midfield
Coordinated movement in defense
Zonal Marking - Counter the opponent with the ball in your space
Pep's press was pressing with numbers. You didn't have hard workers, instead you had smart players who knew when, where and which space to press in numbers.
Sacchi's press was pressing in zonal fashion while still keeping the shape of the team same. So you were supposed to press the player in you zone while the team still maintained it condensed shape.
From one of my old games - you'd notice its not a press with numbers.
The Sacchi 4-4-2 with its 2 man midfield with a creative playmaker no less works despite the lack of numbers in midfield for precisely this reason. Everyone presses at one point or the other in their zones but the shape of team remains the same in a small condensed area.
Compact and coherent movement in midfield
Coordinated movement in defense
Zonal Marking - Counter the opponent with the ball in your space
Should I tell you how pressing works? You have 1 line of 2 and 1 line of 4; 4-3-3 has 3 lines of 3. Nedved and Beckham won't press my fullbacks near the end of the pitch, are they? 3 players cover the passing zones from all center backs most of the time, although with a great keeper the opposition can still create a numerical advantage.
That's simply absurd with Rivera, Bozsik, Robson, Kocsis... the fact that you underrate them and is happy to commit to attack in a real game would've only lead to one thing, Kocsis or Robbo scoring a winner and running to celebrate in front of your bench.
Yeah. The issue is, it's not an aggressive pressing they're referring to, it's something closer to what Simeone does in his proactive games. It restricts me from attacking more efficiently, not pings me to my penalty box.Sacchi's press was pressing in zonal fashion while still keeping the shape of the team same. So you were supposed to press the player in you zone while the team still maintained it condensed shape.
From one of my old games - you'd notice its not a press with numbers.
The Sacchi 4-4-2 with its 2 man midfield with a creative playmaker no less works despite the lack of numbers in midfield for precisely this reason. Everyone presses at one point or the other in their zones but the shape of team remains the same in a small condensed area.
Compact and coherent movement in midfield
Coordinated movement in defense
You're playing a 352 so yes Beckham and Nedved can press your full backs when they are in their zone. There is cover behind them in the full backs Vogts and Demyanenko so there is no risk there. Plus if your RB has the ball Beckham can tuck into the midfield narrowing things down stopping the overload. There is no reason for them not to press high here.
I'm not under rating them, they are top players, but an x-factor isn't just being a great player, it's that something extra that's hard to put your finger on. Some players that aren't as great have got the x factor ability to make opposing teams worry a lot more than I think my defence would be here.
4 mins till 5.30 quick aggressive pressing that doesn't focus on numbers, but rather zonal pressing to quickly regain the ball.
Ignore the condescending tone of the video as a whole, rather just the clips it shows in the pressing section which is from 4 mins onwards.
Quality wise both teams look fairly similar. No obvious mismatches either, although I feel that both Rivera and Nedved would have good games based on what they’re up against. Tactically prefer how harms has set up as the 3-5-2 can negate a 4-4-2 and I can see Branco cancelling out Beckham.
I'm not going to comment on the things like pressing or x-factor anymore as I don't see it as a constructive conversation — I don't see something that I disagree with, I see something absurd, like Rivera not possessing a mythical x-factor.
As for the tactics — I'd rather see what neutrals are going to say about it, since we disagree quite drastically on too many basic things.
As for the tactics — I'd rather see what neutrals are going to say about it, since we disagree quite drastically on too many basic things.
How is it absurd x-factor players are key to deciding big matches and it's normally something you can't quite nail down about them that does just that. But as you say, we're not going to agree so let's leave it there.
As for tactics wise what is your plan for mainly Nedved and Cruyff. Both seem in prime position here to decide this game, Nedved floating inside where Alberto can't track him and Cruyff picking pockets of space to double up on players as he drifts around in that space between defence and midfield.
I think Jimnut's team is nicely designed for their high octane pressing approach overall, although I can see harm's point that it might be lacking a covering CM/DM.
I agree that harms's side has a proper chance to play around the pressing in deeper areas, but - despite Gullit and expert passers - I don't think every piece fits perfectly for rapid counter attacking football.
On the issue of formations & their tactical consequences I can't comment much, I just take in what all of you said.
Too close to call for me, but would love to see that game playing out in real life.
I agree that harms's side has a proper chance to play around the pressing in deeper areas, but - despite Gullit and expert passers - I don't think every piece fits perfectly for rapid counter attacking football.
On the issue of formations & their tactical consequences I can't comment much, I just take in what all of you said.
Too close to call for me, but would love to see that game playing out in real life.
Oh, lovely 4-4-2 from PJ!
Solid team from harms, but feel he's gone a bit too defensive. Both fullbacks and Rivera are better fit in a back 4 with wide players ahead type team. Not that they're bad fit, just a personal preference.
Solid team from harms, but feel he's gone a bit too defensive. Both fullbacks and Rivera are better fit in a back 4 with wide players ahead type team. Not that they're bad fit, just a personal preference.
Seeing as it comes closer and closer to the end, I have to give credit to @P-Nut. I was ready to pretty much concede the defeat because, frankly, I like his team slightly more (I'm a sucker for a good 4-4-2), but seemingly suicidal pressing system with Nedved and Beckham pressing my fullbacks near the corner flags, concerns over Gullit's pace or Rivera's x-factor (how many big games did he needed to win by himself to grant P-Nut's respect) made me genuinely think that I would've won it in real life 
Still, good luck going forward, I'll be rooting for you as this is my favourite team in the draft. Robson would be an awesome addition to that midfield
Still, good luck going forward, I'll be rooting for you as this is my favourite team in the draft. Robson would be an awesome addition to that midfield
Congratulations on the win, @P-Nut @Jim Beam
@harms , having experienced this first hand in the past, you are a really tough bastard to beat even when you have the second best team.
Great job both for changing the setup/tactics in the spirit of the round. Of course for Pnut/Jim that is not really a compliment as they had to move away from that weird Simeone setup from the last round
@harms , having experienced this first hand in the past, you are a really tough bastard to beat even when you have the second best team.
Great job both for changing the setup/tactics in the spirit of the round. Of course for Pnut/Jim that is not really a compliment as they had to move away from that weird Simeone setup from the last round
Still, good luck going forward, I'll be rooting for you as this is my favourite team in the draft. Robson would be an awesome addition to that midfield
Hey mate, you are already part of the team. You're the guy doing our graphic!
This crossed my mind as soon as the draw was done. He had a great team, but think he would pull up a good fight even if there were like 3 sheep in it.
Seeing as it comes closer and closer to the end, I have to give credit to @P-Nut. I was ready to pretty much concede the defeat because, frankly, I like his team slightly more (I'm a sucker for a good 4-4-2), but seemingly suicidal pressing system with Nedved and Beckham pressing my fullbacks near the corner flags, concerns over Gullit's pace or Rivera's x-factor (how many big games did he needed to win by himself to grant P-Nut's respect) made me genuinely think that I would've won it in real life
Still, good luck going forward, I'll be rooting for you as this is my favourite team in the draft. Robson would be an awesome addition to that midfield
Cheers mate you are a nightmare to argue against pretty much no matter what side you've got. I actually really like Rivera and have picked him myself a good few times
Good game mate