Cop in America doing a bad job, again

Wibble said:
So it isn't as big new when someone does their job as it is when they kill someone? Who knew?
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It seemed like he was talking more about officers who go above and beyond what’s required of them. Also, I don’t see why on-duty deaths should garner any less attention than when an officer kills someone. Especially as some of those end up being justified once all the actual evidence comes out.
 
He deserved to get shot 20 times because he didn’t show his hands, therefore he brought his death upon himself.

Are the police not trained to disarm or recover criminals who are running away?
Kill everybody first, ask questions later, get paid time off and come back to duty.

Madness.
 
vi1lain said:
He deserved to get shot 20 times because he didn’t show his hands, therefore he brought his death upon himself.

Are the police not trained to disarm or recover criminals who are running away?
Kill everybody first, ask questions later, get paid time off and come back to duty.

Madness.
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Yes, they are trained to disarm the suspect... by lethal force if in any doubt...
 
Mike Schatner said:
Not exactly sure what anyone expects there. He ran from them, ignored multiple requests to shows his hands, and the cops thought they saw something in his hands. They were fairly restrained up until the point when the officer thought he had seen a gun. The perpetrator brought that on himself IMO.
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ivaldo said:
Difficult to see. But why didn't he show them his hands, and why did he fun?
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According to this (which is probably not the best source in the world) he was standing in his own backyard minding his own business when the police started yelling at him without identifying themselves as police. There's a video from WaPo as well.
 
Organic Potatoes said:
Yes, they are trained to disarm the suspect... by lethal force if in any doubt...
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So they're trained to kill then? With no real repercussions after they murder someone.

Evading arrest isn't justification for murder, neither is non-compliance.
 
So this Stephon Clark shooting has me wondering. They supposedly fired 20 times and hit him with 8 shots. So 12 wayward shots in a residential neighbourhood is acceptable? I just don't understand how they can justify opening up so wildly with the risk of bullets going into unintended targets. I also don't understand how they can clearly state that he had a gun when it was dark, they were so far away and the scene was frantic.

This does not strike me as a defensible shooting in any way.
 
Grinner said:
So this Stephon Clark shooting has me wondering. They supposedly fired 20 times and hit him with 8 shots. So 12 wayward shots in a residential neighbourhood is acceptable? I just don't understand how they can justify opening up so wildly with the risk of bullets going into unintended targets. I also don't understand how they can clearly state that he had a gun when it was dark, they were so far away and the scene was frantic.

This does not strike me as a defensible shooting in any way.
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Just shows people how hard it is to shoot someone in the leg or arm to incapacitate them.

The Clark shooting is a tough one because he clearly ignored commands to stop and show his hands. The officers have to make split second decisions and the video clearly shows they believed he was armed. If it was a gun and they get in wrong by half a second one of the officer could easily have been killed.
 
Mike Schatner said:
Just shows people how hard it is to shoot someone in the leg or arm to incapacitate them.

The Clark shooting is a tough one because he clearly ignored commands to stop and show his hands. The officers have to make split second decisions and the video clearly shows they believed he was armed. If it was a gun and they get in wrong by half a second one of the officer could easily have been killed.
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The cops were clearly in the wrong here, as evidenced by the fact that they turned the body cam audio off to mask their own bewilderment that they made a fatal mistake.
 
Raoul said:
The cops were clearly in the wrong here, as evidenced by the fact that they turned the body cam audio off to mask their own bewilderment that they made a fatal mistake.
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They made a mistake for sure but so did Clark by ignoring commands to stop and show his hands. Video clearly shows the cops believed they saw a gun and at that point the shooting is inevitable. I don't think the cops acted with any malice or in an unprofessional way. If anything this highlights just how difficult their job is and incidents like this will always occur. In nearly all of the shooting I have seen the victim contributed to the final outcome.
 
Mike Schatner said:
They made a mistake for sure but so did Clark by ignoring commands to stop and show his hands. Video clearly shows the cops believed they saw a gun and at that point the shooting is inevitable. I don't think the cops acted with any malice or in an unprofessional way. If anything this highlights just how difficult their job is and incidents like this will always occur. In nearly all of the shooting I have seen the victim contributed to the final outcome.
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20 shots is still excessive, so they were clearly in the wrong. They should've known better especially in today's racially charged cop vs black suspect environment after the litany of other cases we've seen in recent years.
 
Raoul said:
20 shots is still excessive, so they were clearly in the wrong. They should've known better especially in today's racially charged cop vs black suspect environment after the litany of other cases we've seen in recent years.
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The number of shots is irrelevant. They are trained to aim for the center of mass and keep shooting until the threat is neutralized. As for your second comment what are they supposed to do....delay shooting when they genuinely thought he had a gun just because he is black? Clark ran away from them and ignored multiple commands. I don't know about you but when a cop in the US tells me to do something I comply without a second thought. To run away and ignore commands in the dark was not a smart thing to do.
 
Mike Schatner said:
The number of shots is irrelevant. They are trained to aim for the center of mass and keep shooting until the threat is neutralized. As for your second comment what are they supposed to do....delay shooting when they genuinely thought he had a gun just because he is black? Clark ran away from them and ignored multiple commands. I don't know about you but when a cop in the US tells me to do something I comply without a second thought. To run away and ignore commands in the dark was not a smart thing to do.
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That's not going to fly in this case. Everyone who has seen the video is appalled by the excessive force that was used. The fact that they muted the audio will also be taken into consideration in court. One can only hide behind the cowardice of 'he didn't follow instructions' obfuscation for so long before the public lose patience.
 
RedTiger said:
Stephon Clark's body was in such a state that his Mosque couldn't carry out the obligatory body purification. Makes you wonder how bad he was shot up.
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He was shot 6 times in the back. The cops must've felt really threatened by a black kid with his back to them.
 
Raoul said:
He was shot 6 times in the back. The cops must've felt really threatened by a black kid with his back to them.
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They were also in a good position of cover and knew that the helicopter above had eyes on him. He wasn't going anywhere.
 
Mike Schatner said:
They made a mistake for sure but so did Clark by ignoring commands to stop and show his hands. Video clearly shows the cops believed they saw a gun and at that point the shooting is inevitable. I don't think the cops acted with any malice or in an unprofessional way. If anything this highlights just how difficult their job is and incidents like this will always occur. In nearly all of the shooting I have seen the victim contributed to the final outcome.
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This is some post....
 
Raoul said:
He was shot 6 times in the back. The cops must've felt really threatened by a black kid with his back to them.
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Have you watched the helicopter footage? The last 10-15 shots were fired as he fell to the ground with his back to the officers. He was facing the officers when the shooting started. The helicopter footage also shows him jumping fencing and trying to avoid the police officers. The helicopter crew guided the cops on the ground. The cops undoubtedly mistook his cell phone for a gun but they acted in good faith. Clark's actions before he was confronted and immediately before the shooting significantly contributed to the situation.
 
Mike Schatner said:
Have you watched the helicopter footage? The last 10-15 shots were fired as he fell to the ground with his back to the officers. He was facing the officers when the shooting started. The helicopter footage also shows him jumping fencing and trying to avoid the police officers. The helicopter crew guided the cops on the ground. The cops undoubtedly mistook his cell phone for a gun but they acted in good faith. Clark's actions before he was confronted and immediately before the shooting significantly contributed to the situation.
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He was facing them but it was dark and he had no way of knowing they were right around the corner from where he was. They fired about 5 shots, at which point he was already down. They then decided to unload another 12-13 rounds into him once he was already down. They then proceeded to wait about 5 minutes until approaching him. According to the autopsy (my last video), he was deemed to have died during that period.

The cops are on administrative leave, so we already know the department think something went terribly wrong.

 
Raoul said:
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Your last two videos are embarrassing biased. The helicopter footage is dramatically edited to make it look like they paused and then started shooting again. The autopsy video is highly speculative.

The full helicopter video shows everything start to finish.



Isn't administrative leave normal procedure while they investigate police shootings? From what I have seen from the various cameras I don't see much of a case against the officers. I might be wrong but my gut says not much comes from this.
 
Mike Schatner said:
Your last two videos are embarrassing biased. The helicopter footage is dramatically edited to make it look like they paused and then started shooting again. The autopsy video is highly speculative.

The full helicopter video shows everything start to finish.



Isn't administrative leave normal procedure while they investigate police shootings? From what I have seen from the various cameras I don't see much of a case against the officers. I might be wrong but my gut says not much comes from this.
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There's nothing more revealing about the video you posted. An unarmed guy who had 20 rounds fired at him, most of which after he was incapacitated. The cops are clearly to blame for this. They didn't have to fire that many shots and they didn't have to wait 5 minutes until after the last round was fired to "go see if they were ok". Sounds like these were young, inexperienced cops who dropped the ball, which resulted in an unnecessary death.
 
Raoul said:
There's nothing more revealing about the video you posted.
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Well firstly its not deliberately edited to mislead. Secondly it shows Clark jumping fencing to avoid the cops. A report was made of a suspicious male trying to break into cars. The helicopter spotted Clark jumping fences and guided the cops on the ground to his location. Clark then ran from the cops and ignored commands to show his hands. Video clearly shows the cops believed he had a gun.

Were mistakes made, obviously, was there any malicious intent or crime committed by the cops? The court of public opinion based on biased media coverage is not often wrong.
 
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