Cop in America doing a bad job, again

[choiboyx012]

If someone beats me up and runs away and I pick up a gun and shoot them in the back as they are fleeing, I'm getting arrested that very day.

He left his car there. They knew who he was. It's ok to admit you got your ass beat, and follow up and arrest the perp the next day. Then charge him with the crime of resisting arrest and assault and so on.

The officer was fired justifiably so but I'm not sure why so many are comfortable with the idea that in a system where it takes the death of an individual to realize, "oh that's a bad cop", said system can be reformed by just removing the bad cops. Which again, are only identified when they kill someone.

Interesting point. Personally, i don’t like the term “bad apple” or bad cop. Because it’s horseshit. We’re all bad apples in one way or another, because we’re all human. I’m sure I’ve said this in the past on this thread.

The job of policing encompasses so much that it’s impossible to be excellent or competent in every aspect of the job. An officer can be great at de-escalating situations and have great rapport with the community. But when it comes time to get physical, they can freeze up and be absolutely useless. Another officer can have no disciplinary issues or complaints, but be lazy as feck. Another can have a sick sense of humor and make sex/race jokes all the time, but is actually very professional and competent when dealing with citizens. I like to think of myself as a good police officer, but then again I’ve never been in a serious life or death situation or shoot/no shoot incident. For all we know, that Atlanta cop might have been a great respected officer who had helped many citizens with no disciplinary issues. He might’ve been a “great apple”, but that 2 seconds of rush of blood to his head and deciding to shoot was the moment he crossed that line into “bad apple”. There are officers who i respected and looked up to. Knowledgeable, physically fit, experienced. When we had an active shooter incident these same officers froze up scared like a deer-in-headlights, not knowing what to do and not moving in to stop the shooter.
My point is, it’s impossible to know or predict how an officer will act in a stressful life-death incident until they’re actually in it, no matter if they were good/bad apples in their careers up to that point.

 

[Man of Leisure]

Do you know how this situation ended? But i agree with some posters above; driver also was a smart-ass
Listen to cop, do what he asks and go on court later.

Curious about that too.

Thought the "that's the universe trying to protect both of us" was a good line. But then the "we're supposed to be on the same side" sorta threw me off.

 

[Man of Leisure]

Interesting point. Personally, i don’t like the term “bad apple” or bad cop. Because it’s horseshit. We’re all bad apples in one way or another, because we’re all human. I’m sure I’ve said this in the past on this thread.

The job of policing encompasses so much that it’s impossible to be excellent or competent in every aspect of the job. An officer can be great at de-escalating situations and have great rapport with the community. But when it comes time to get physical, they can freeze up and be absolutely useless. Another officer can have no disciplinary issues or complaints, but be lazy as feck. Another can have a sick sense of humor and make sex/race jokes all the time, but is actually very professional and competent when dealing with citizens. I like to think of myself as a good police officer, but then again I’ve never been in a serious life or death situation or shoot/no shoot incident. For all we know, that Atlanta cop might have been a great respected officer who had helped many citizens with no disciplinary issues. He might’ve been a “great apple”, but that 2 seconds of rush of blood to his head and deciding to shoot was the moment he crossed that line into “bad apple”. There are officers who i respected and looked up to. Knowledgeable, physically fit, experienced. When we had an active shooter incident these same officers froze up scared like a deer-in-headlights, not knowing what to do and not moving in to stop the shooter.
My point is, it’s impossible to know or predict how an officer will act in a stressful life-death incident until they’re actually in it, no matter if they were good/bad apples in their careers up to that point.

Good post

 

[villain]

Interesting point. Personally, i don’t like the term “bad apple” or bad cop. Because it’s horseshit. We’re all bad apples in one way or another, because we’re all human. I’m sure I’ve said this in the past on this thread.

The job of policing encompasses so much that it’s impossible to be excellent or competent in every aspect of the job. An officer can be great at de-escalating situations and have great rapport with the community. But when it comes time to get physical, they can freeze up and be absolutely useless. Another officer can have no disciplinary issues or complaints, but be lazy as feck. Another can have a sick sense of humor and make sex/race jokes all the time, but is actually very professional and competent when dealing with citizens. I like to think of myself as a good police officer, but then again I’ve never been in a serious life or death situation or shoot/no shoot incident. For all we know, that Atlanta cop might have been a great respected officer who had helped many citizens with no disciplinary issues. He might’ve been a “great apple”, but that 2 seconds of rush of blood to his head and deciding to shoot was the moment he crossed that line into “bad apple”. There are officers who i respected and looked up to. Knowledgeable, physically fit, experienced. When we had an active shooter incident these same officers froze up scared like a deer-in-headlights, not knowing what to do and not moving in to stop the shooter.
My point is, it’s impossible to know or predict how an officer will act in a stressful life-death incident until they’re actually in it, no matter if they were good/bad apples in their careers up to that point.

This is a good, honest & transparent post.

It strengthens the argument for the police institution to not be a one size fits all solution for the community it serves.

 

[choiboyx012]

And if any of those drunk people with guns resist arrest in such a manner they will get shot. Its for the safety of citizens. This man was clearly not stable. The cops in this case were respectful and very cooperative.

You simply dont run away like that. Like I said real life isnt Twitter

Assuming he’s a danger to the public with a taser is a stretch. If he had taken the cop’s gun, shot him or some other bystander, and then run off then that’s a different story.

 

[afrocentricity]

Mentally exhausted if i'm honest, but keeping the spirits as positive as I can.
I haven't seen you around in a while, you been good?

Yeah I'm good I can't complain. Just keeping it moving, a lot going on right now but staying positive and making the best out of a bad situation is key

 

[Shane88]

What would be going through your head as a black man being arrested in America at the moment? I'm sure that situation doesn't result in calm, sensible thinking for most.

There's a big line between the fear and nervousness that a black guy would have when confronted with cops and this dude going MMA on 2 cops, taking their weapon and aiming it at them.

 

[shamans]

1. We don't know if he was drunk (maybe we do now) but as far as I know we don't know that.
2. Who are you perceiving him to be a threat to? Himself ok yes, the general public how?
3. From your other posts, I see you have not followed what happened, as he was not pulled over. He was asleep in the passenger seat of a vehicle (that is not a crime)
4. He did not have a gun

But more to the point even if he was drunk, and he did get pulled over, and he did run away. What danger to the general public is he really? There is no imminent threat to life, there is no reason to suspect he is going to harm anyone.
So in that sense, there is no reason to use deadly force and shoot the man in the back whilst running away.

Let's also address something because I think it is very important. Even if someone has committed a crime or is suspected of committing a crime, that still gives no right to take their life.
The only reason for an officer to kill a suspect is if they feel either their own life is in mortal danger or if there is an imminent threat to the lives of the general public.

Committing a crime does not mean you should die at the hands of the police.

Just gonna go in circles with this but he was visibly drunk and he failed the breathalyzer. He had a taser which it appears he used on the cops.

Committing a crime doesnt mean you die but dont attack law enforcment and expect kind words. This isnt childs play.

Im all for BLM movement and defunding/reorganizing U.S police from the ground up. This just isnt the case I would use an example. I wouldn't feel safe with that dude being drunk and running away with a taser as a citizen.

 

[shamans]

There's a big line between the fear and nervousness that a black guy would have when confronted with cops and this dude going MMA on 2 cops, taking their weapon and aiming it at them.

Exactly. This was not a case of what we have seen many times of cops power tripping and intimidating a minority. In this case he was challenging the police physically. Thankfully theres body cam footage.

 

[Ludens the Red]

Interesting point. Personally, i don’t like the term “bad apple” or bad cop. Because it’s horseshit. We’re all bad apples in one way or another, because we’re all human. I’m sure I’ve said this in the past on this thread.

The job of policing encompasses so much that it’s impossible to be excellent or competent in every aspect of the job. An officer can be great at de-escalating situations and have great rapport with the community. But when it comes time to get physical, they can freeze up and be absolutely useless. Another officer can have no disciplinary issues or complaints, but be lazy as feck. Another can have a sick sense of humor and make sex/race jokes all the time, but is actually very professional and competent when dealing with citizens. I like to think of myself as a good police officer, but then again I’ve never been in a serious life or death situation or shoot/no shoot incident. For all we know, that Atlanta cop might have been a great respected officer who had helped many citizens with no disciplinary issues. He might’ve been a “great apple”, but that 2 seconds of rush of blood to his head and deciding to shoot was the moment he crossed that line into “bad apple”. There are officers who i respected and looked up to. Knowledgeable, physically fit, experienced. When we had an active shooter incident these same officers froze up scared like a deer-in-headlights, not knowing what to do and not moving in to stop the shooter.
My point is, it’s impossible to know or predict how an officer will act in a stressful life-death incident until they’re actually in it, no matter if they were good/bad apples in their careers up to that point.

Good post, and in particular that bit in bold is why it would be extremely difficult to resolve issues in policing by simply “starting it from scratch”. It’s complete delusion. No human being and no officer is ever going to be completely competent at everything they do and there are far too many policing situations where everything is simply not clear cut. Case in point this Atalanta incident. It starts off as a guy asleep in his car and develops into him taking and attempting to fire a taser at the officer and then eventually being shot dead. All in the space of about what two minutes. That quick incident would have required several different elements of policing.

 

[Cassidy]

Just gonna go in circles with this but he was visibly drunk and he failed the breathalyzer. He had a taser which it appears he used on the cops.

Committing a crime doesnt mean you die but dont attack law enforcment and expect kind words. This isnt childs play.

Im all for BLM movement and defunding/reorganizing U.S police from the ground up. This just isnt the case I would use an example. I wouldn't feel safe with that dude being drunk and running away with a taser as a citizen.

So you are saying shooting him in the back whilst running away was justified?
If someone attacks me in the street and then runs away and I shoot them in the back, you know I can be charged with murder right? Do you know why that is? It is no longer self-defence.
If the officer sees no imminent threat to his or partners life, and no imminent threat to the life of anyone in the public then there is no grounds to shoot let alone kill.
Lets not even talk about the fact the officers were seen tampering with the crime scene after the event.

This isn't even about BLM this is simply common sense. His killing was wrong. I am not absolving him of anything he did wrong, but there was no cause for him to be shot in the back that is clear.

 

[2 man midfield]

Do cops not chase people through back alleys anymore? He could have just given chase, or at worst shot him in the leg.

He didn’t need to die though.

 

[arnie_ni]

The guy should've just gotten out of his car, allowed the cop to run his plates, taken the ticket and then driven off. Instead he tried to become a social media hero by attempting to vlog himself out of routine stop, and in the process probably got arrested. Some people are really dumb.

This is my problem with alot of these instances we see.

Note - not the floyd one.

Yes in a lot of the cases in police shootings we can look at it and say its over the top or the could have done x y z, but in quite a lot of them it all starts with the citizen (who fair enough could be stopped simply because they are black when they have done nothing wrong) refusing to co operate with what the cops are saying and getting rude and or violent.

I have only been in this sort of position a couple of times (youth drinking and fancy cars at young age) but i just done exactly what i was told and what was asked of me.

I cant understand escalating a situation with a cop.

That doesnt mean its thats person fault if the cop goes overboard, because it isnt. If the cop uses excessive force, charge the bastard.

But, it just seems so many of these use of violence instances could be avoided by simply complying with the cop even if your totalling in the right and they are overstepping their boundries.

That could possibly be the defintion of privilege im not sure but i wouldnt dare resisting arrest, or taking a tazer of a cop even as a white dude in northern Ireland.

 

[Adisa]

This place is something else. There are a million things that officer could have done rather than shoot a man running away in the back.

 

[Raoul]

This is my problem with alot of these instances we see.

Note - not the floyd one.

Yes in a lot of the cases in police shootings we can look at it and say its over the top or the could have done x y z, but in quite a lot of them it all starts with the citizen (who fair enough could be stopped simply because they are black when they have done nothing wrong) refusing to co operate with what the cops are saying and getting rude and or violent.

I have only been in this sort of position a couple of times (youth drinking and fancy cars at young age) but i just done exactly what i was told and what was asked of me.

I cant understand escalating a situation with a cop.

That doesnt mean its thats person fault if the cop goes overboard, because it isnt. If the cop uses excessive force, charge the bastard.

But, it just seems so many of these use of violence instances could be avoided by simply complying with the cop even if your totalling in the right and they are overstepping their boundries.

That could possibly be the defintion of privilege im not sure but i wouldnt dare resisting arrest, or taking a tazer of a cop even as a white dude in northern Ireland.

This has been my experience as well. However that's not to say others haven't run into problems on occasion.

 

[choiboyx012]

Looks like a routine dui investigation. Professional, no escalation. Once the cuffs came out it went 0 to 100 real quick

 

[2 man midfield]

Yes him being shot in the back could’ve been avoided if the deceased had simply complied with their wishes.

It could also have been avoided if the cop didn’t shoot him in the back.

 

[Sara125]

This demonstrates one of the major issues - fragile ego. The cop can’t handle that the guy is ‘winning’ and in the right so he’s desperately trying to show who’s boss because he knows he has a lot of power and backup behind him.

A good cop would have said to himself, or even out loud, that he doesn’t want to escalate the situation so will write him a ticket and be on his way. It’s clear as day the guy isn’t suspicious and is just frustrated that he’s been intimidatingly tailgated for a while before being pulled over, a shitty technique that I’ve even experienced over here.

The officer’s response “Because I can pull anyone that I want to out of their car” to when the guy asked why he’s been pulled out just shows the kind of power trips these bastards love.

 

[villain]

Looks like a routine dui investigation. Professional, no escalation. Once the cuffs came out it went 0 to 100 real quick

They have no evidence of him driving while under influence - considering he was asleep in the passenger seat when they came to him.
Further to that, there may have been no escalation - but there certainly wasn't any deescalation either.

Why was an arrest even necessary?
Surely in that situation where a man who has no weapons on him, and isn't violent or aggressive - it would be better to drop him home and give him a warning? I would argue that attempting to arrest a man with no evidence of him committing a crime (at the time of arrest) counts as escalation - it would certainly make a lot of people defensive, even more so if you're black.

 

[roseguy64]

Good post, and in particular that bit in bold is why it would be extremely difficult to resolve issues in policing by simply “starting it from scratch”. It’s complete delusion. No human being and no officer is ever going to be completely competent at everything they do and there are far too many policing situations where everything is simply not clear cut. Case in point this Atalanta incident. It starts off as a guy asleep in his car and develops into him taking and attempting to fire a taser at the officer and then eventually being shot dead. All in the space of about what two minutes. That quick incident would have required several different elements of policing.

That's not the only reason to start from scratch. It's to ensure that guys like Chauvin with multiple complaints are easy to get rid of. The police unions are too powerful and make it hard to get rid of the "bad apples". No way should multiple violations or having a racist tattoo be allowed just because the union fights against punishment.

It'll also get rid of the previous culture since you'll re-hire the people who were resistant to the culture and also hire new people in to be molded by a new culture.

 

[entropy]

 

[Organic Potatoes]

They have no evidence of him driving while under influence - considering he was asleep in the passenger seat when they came to him.
Further to that, there may have been no escalation - but there certainly wasn't any deescalation either.

Why was an arrest even necessary?
Surely in that situation where a man who has no weapons on him, and isn't violent or aggressive - it would be better to drop him home and give him a warning? I would argue that attempting to arrest a man with no evidence of him committing a crime (at the time of arrest) counts as escalation - it would certainly make a lot of people defensive, even more so if you're black.

I’m not sure where the passenger seat part is coming from? From what has been presented-passed out in a running vehicle, obstructing traffic, and then failing a sobriety test is 100% an arrest in the US.

I‘m not defending anything that happened after that, I just wanted to clarify that part.

 

[villain]

I’m not sure where the passenger seat part is coming from? From what has been presented-passed out in a running vehicle, obstructing traffic, and then failing a sobriety test is 100% an arrest in the US.

I‘m not defending anything that happened after that, I just wanted to clarify that part.

Thats fine, there's lots of inaccurate reports flying around - easy for small details to be incorrect. And different states often have different laws, so if failing a sobriety test is grounds for offence, i'll happily accept that.
It would still be nice for situations like this to not end in a power struggle, there should be nuance & common sense applied.

 

[Ludens the Red]

That's not the only reason to start from scratch. It's to ensure that guys like Chauvin with multiple complaints are easy to get rid of. The police unions are too powerful and make it hard to get rid of the "bad apples". No way should multiple violations or having a racist tattoo be allowed just because the union fights against punishment.

It'll also get rid of the previous culture since you'll re-hire the people who were resistant to the culture and also hire new people in to be molded by a new culture.

Yeah that’s true and it is another side of the argument but my point was that this sort of incident tells you that this idea of a new force with multiple agencies dealing with different types of situations is not realistic.

 

[RedPed]

Interesting point. Personally, i don’t like the term “bad apple” or bad cop. Because it’s horseshit. We’re all bad apples in one way or another, because we’re all human. I’m sure I’ve said this in the past on this thread.

The job of policing encompasses so much that it’s impossible to be excellent or competent in every aspect of the job. An officer can be great at de-escalating situations and have great rapport with the community. But when it comes time to get physical, they can freeze up and be absolutely useless. Another officer can have no disciplinary issues or complaints, but be lazy as feck. Another can have a sick sense of humor and make sex/race jokes all the time, but is actually very professional and competent when dealing with citizens. I like to think of myself as a good police officer, but then again I’ve never been in a serious life or death situation or shoot/no shoot incident. For all we know, that Atlanta cop might have been a great respected officer who had helped many citizens with no disciplinary issues. He might’ve been a “great apple”, but that 2 seconds of rush of blood to his head and deciding to shoot was the moment he crossed that line into “bad apple”. There are officers who i respected and looked up to. Knowledgeable, physically fit, experienced. When we had an active shooter incident these same officers froze up scared like a deer-in-headlights, not knowing what to do and not moving in to stop the shooter.
My point is, it’s impossible to know or predict how an officer will act in a stressful life-death incident until they’re actually in it, no matter if they were good/bad apples in their careers up to that point.

Now just imagine you're just about to board a plane or take your child to hospital for a life-saving operation and somebody spouts this crap about the pilot or surgeon. Would you be happy to get on that plane or allow that surgeon to operate on your child.

This is the problem with the police......too many excuses. Just imagine if people were dying in a hospital every day and the general manager just said, what do you expect, this is a stressful job. Yeah some of our doctors and surgeons may have lost their way a bit but on the whole we're good people. Then those doctors or surgeons continue to bungle operations, people die and they are allowed to keep their jobs with no accountability.

Nobody and I mean nobody would accept the mortality rates and levels of incompetence in a hospital or major airline. Why should it be different for the police? All these incidents coming to light are simply down to lack of accountability and systemic racism.....and people always making excuses for them. They really just need to feck off.

 

[psychdelicblues]

 

[Gehrman]

One thing that tends to kill old people is damage from falls. This incident might lead to a premature death and they are appaluding them for needlessly causing severe damage to a unarmed old guy? America is fecking weird.

 

[choiboyx012]

They have no evidence of him driving while under influence - considering he was asleep in the passenger seat when they came to him.
Further to that, there may have been no escalation - but there certainly wasn't any deescalation either.

Why was an arrest even necessary?
Surely in that situation where a man who has no weapons on him, and isn't violent or aggressive - it would be better to drop him home and give him a warning? I would argue that attempting to arrest a man with no evidence of him committing a crime (at the time of arrest) counts as escalation - it would certainly make a lot of people defensive, even more so if you're black.

I’m not sure how it is in GA but like most jurisdictions DUIs are “shall-arrest” misdemeanors. Even if he wasn’t observed driving, he is still committing a DUI based on the totality of the circumstances: passed out behind the wheel, engine running, blocking traffic, multiple attempts to wake him up with no response, odor of alcohol, bloodshot eyes, slurred speech, and then the Field sobriety test. Plus the first officer on scene told him when Brooks awoke to drive away from the drivethru line and into a nearby parking spot. He drove over the parking spot line into the grass and then backed up, further evidence of his impairment.
the DA’s prefer that officers observe driving because it’s more of a “slam dunk” case, but it’s still a DUI if a vehicle is parked with a drunk person behind the wheel. And the arrest is one of the handful of misdemeanors that is mandatory.

 

[Ludens the Red]

Now just imagine you're just about to board a plane or take your child to hospital for a life-saving operation and somebody spouts this crap about the pilot or surgeon. Would you be happy to get on that plane or allow that surgeon to operate on your child.

This is the problem with the police......too many excuses. Just imagine if people were dying in a hospital every day and the general manager just said, what do you expect, this is a stressful job. Yeah some of our doctors and surgeons may have lost their way a bit but on the whole we're good people. Then those doctors or surgeons continue to bungle operations, people die and they are allowed to keep their jobs with no accountability.

Nobody and I mean nobody would accept the mortality rates and levels of incompetence in a hospital or major airline. Why should it be different for the police? All these incidents coming to light are simply down to lack of accountability and systemic racism.....and people always making excuses for them. They really just need to feck off.

This post is as bad the policing in America.

I mean why on earth are you comparing a pilot flying a plane to policing and medical care. How complete and utterly bizarre.
Im not sure how you took @choiboyx012 post as making excuses. He’s more or less saying most police officers will be flawed in one or more aspects of their role.
Also I think you will find that people die in hospital everyday.
I think you’ll also find that late and misdiagnoses in healthcare are very very common, that often result in catastrophic consequences, a lot of the time through incompetence and attempts to “save money”. You’ll also find that people with mental health are being failed at a staggering rate.

 

[Goalfather]

I think this situation is very different from that of George Floyd. Whether the initial offence merited an arrest is neither here nor there, in my opinion. The guy not only resisted arrest but he disarmed the police officer and attempted to discharge the weapon in the direction of the officer and then decided to flee the scene of the arrest. I don't know if training is different in the US, but law enforcement officials in my country are taught to aim for centre mass, not moving limbs. Allowing the guy to flee the scene is also not a smart option, particularly in the dark, because the guy may get the tactical advantage of cover.

On the flip side of the coin, as a black man in the States, the prospect of being detained by the police must be a terrifying thing, even if one is guilty of a relatively minor infraction. In his impaired state, his reaction is quite understandable. He was pretty cool until he was about to be detained and maybe at that point he panicked.
It is an unfortunate situation but I find it hard to condemn the officers in this instance.

 

[choiboyx012]

Now just imagine you're just about to board a plane or take your child to hospital for a life-saving operation and somebody spouts this crap about the pilot or surgeon. Would you be happy to get on that plane or allow that surgeon to operate on your child.

This is the problem with the police......too many excuses. Just imagine if people were dying in a hospital every day and the general manager just said, what do you expect, this is a stressful job. Yeah some of our doctors and surgeons may have lost their way a bit but on the whole we're good people. Then those doctors or surgeons continue to bungle operations, people die and they are allowed to keep their jobs with no accountability.

Nobody and I mean nobody would accept the mortality rates and levels of incompetence in a hospital or major airline. Why should it be different for the police? All these incidents coming to light are simply down to lack of accountability and systemic racism.....and people always making excuses for them. They really just need to feck off.

Did i make an excuse anywhere? I’m just telling it like it is from my point of view and experience. I’m not going to claim that i know anything about those 2 industries. I can imagine there’s tons of unprofessionalism, incompetence in the medical field that lead to deaths. I’ve experienced it with my own family. And I’m sure they have insurance and ways to protect themselves from liability in case they get sued. I really don’t know. You obviously have a lot of hatred in your heart. May peace and love be upon you.

 

[afrocentricity]

This post is as bad the policing in America.

I mean why on earth are you comparing a pilot flying a plane to policing and medical care. How complete and utterly bizarre.
Im not sure how you took @choiboyx012 post as making excuses. He’s more or less saying most police officers will be flawed in one or more aspects of their role.
Also I think you will find that people die in hospital everyday.
I think you’ll also find that late and misdiagnoses in healthcare are very very common, that often result in catastrophic consequences, a lot of the time through incompetence and attempts to “save money”. You’ll also find that people with mental health are being failed at a staggering rate.

Do the people get off in these cases? Do their colleagues make excuses (or rationalisations) for them? I think maybe you jumped the gun and missed some of his point in attempting to argue with him? I'm joining this back and forth late so maybe I'm missing something?

I think this situation is very different from that of George Floyd. Whether the initial offence merited an arrest is neither here nor there, in my opinion. The guy not only resisted arrest but he disarmed the police officer and attempted to discharge the weapon in the direction of the officer and then decided to flee the scene of the arrest. I don't know if training is different in the US, but law enforcement officials in my country are taught to aim for centre mass, not moving limbs. Allowing the guy to flee the scene is also not a smart option, particularly in the dark, because the guy may get the tactical advantage of cover.

On the flip side of the coin, as a black man in the States, the prospect of being detained by the police must be a terrifying thing, even if one is guilty of a relatively minor infraction. In his impaired state, his reaction is quite understandable. He was pretty cool until he was about to be detained and maybe at that point he panicked.
It is an unfortunate situation but I find it hard to condemn the officers in this instance.

And this is all well and good but we've seen examples in this thread of cops deescalating situations with armed people, impaired people, etc... I won't lie it irks that people are like 'Well you brought it on yourself'

Really? Is that where we are? And people wonder why there is anger, distrust, and fear....

This drunk idiot decided to fight cops, steal a weapon and took aim with that weapon.

And you're coming across like a bit of a prick based on your posts...

And yes I read the latest redcafe notice and I took a moment before hitting reply, but it is what is ...

and resulted in the immediate sacking of the officer.

Which is the salient point... but we still have posters in here doing the old 'Well actually..."

 

[Shane88]

I think this situation is very different from that of George Floyd. Whether the initial offence merited an arrest is neither here nor there, in my opinion. The guy not only resisted arrest but he disarmed the police officer and attempted to discharge the weapon in the direction of the officer and then decided to flee the scene of the arrest. I don't know if training is different in the US, but law enforcement officials in my country are taught to aim for centre mass, not moving limbs. Allowing the guy to flee the scene is also not a smart option, particularly in the dark, because the guy may get the tactical advantage of cover.

On the flip side of the coin, as a black man in the States, the prospect of being detained by the police must be a terrifying thing, even if one is guilty of a relatively minor infraction. In his impaired state, his reaction is quite understandable. He was pretty cool until he was about to be detained and maybe at that point he panicked.
It is an unfortunate situation but I find it hard to condemn the officers in this instance.

Exactly. To compare this with George Floyd is pretty insulting to Floyd. He had the life slowly squeezed out of him for doing feck all.

This drunk idiot decided to fight cops, steal a weapon and took aim with that weapon.

 

[Gehrman]

Did i make an excuse anywhere? I’m just telling it like it is from my point of view and experience. I’m not going to claim that i know anything about those 2 industries. I can imagine there’s tons of unprofessionalism, incompetence in the medical field that lead to deaths. I’ve experienced it with my own family. And I’m sure they have insurance and ways to protect themselves from liability in case they get sued. I really don’t know. You obviously have a lot of hatred in your heart. May peace and love be upon you.

I think apart from the whole education in policing in the US there is simply also the tension of the enviroment and culture. Every man and his dog can purchase and own a gun and I suspect repeat criminals are more likely to own one which makes the daily life of american police men far more volatile. But i'm not trying to excuse police brutality or unnecssary use of force only that it's probably easier for cops to be a bit more laid back in peacefull countries where the fewest people bear arms.

 

[villain]

I’m not sure how it is in GA but like most jurisdictions DUIs are “shall-arrest” misdemeanors. Even if he wasn’t observed driving, he is still committing a DUI based on the totality of the circumstances: passed out behind the wheel, engine running, blocking traffic, multiple attempts to wake him up with no response, odor of alcohol, bloodshot eyes, slurred speech, and then the Field sobriety test. Plus the first officer on scene told him when Brooks awoke to drive away from the drivethru line and into a nearby parking spot. He drove over the parking spot line into the grass and then backed up, further evidence of his impairment.
the DA’s prefer that officers observe driving because it’s more of a “slam dunk” case, but it’s still a DUI if a vehicle is parked with a drunk person behind the wheel. And the arrest is one of the handful of misdemeanors that is mandatory.

Understood, but it's clear that this is no means a 'normal' DUI, he was compliant and agreeable with the police and didn't deny having drinks.
At what point is getting an arrest more important than actually protecting the community and helping him find his way home in a safe manner?
It comes across like there was an incentive to arrest this man at all costs, and I'm struggling to see why.

 

[mu4c_20le]

I think this situation is very different from that of George Floyd. Whether the initial offence merited an arrest is neither here nor there, in my opinion. The guy not only resisted arrest but he disarmed the police officer and attempted to discharge the weapon in the direction of the officer and then decided to flee the scene of the arrest. I don't know if training is different in the US, but law enforcement officials in my country are taught to aim for centre mass, not moving limbs. Allowing the guy to flee the scene is also not a smart option, particularly in the dark, because the guy may get the tactical advantage of cover.

On the flip side of the coin, as a black man in the States, the prospect of being detained by the police must be a terrifying thing, even if one is guilty of a relatively minor infraction. In his impaired state, his reaction is quite understandable. He was pretty cool until he was about to be detained and maybe at that point he panicked.
It is an unfortunate situation but I find it hard to condemn the officers in this instance.

Umm he wasn't going anywhere, they were in a well lit parking lot. You keep using the word 'weapon' in your post, that shows your bias. He stole a taser, so what? You act as if he stole a gun and was about to go on a shooting spree. The cop that shot him had backup, it was not a one on one situation where he could reasonably fear for his life if he got incapacitated by the taser. So what if the guy got away? They bring in the dogs, the helicopters, and they'll get him before daybreak. While the situation was indeed different from Floyd because he offered more resistance, it was still widely condemned by officials and resulted in the immediate sacking of the officer.

 

[Goalfather]

Exactly. To compare this with George Floyd is pretty insulting to Floyd. He had the life slowly squeezed out of him for doing feck all.

This drunk idiot decided to fight cops, steal a weapon and took aim with that weapon.

I would not call him an idiot. We have seen the deaths of a series of black men and women who without resisting arrest have been beaten and even killed by police officers who were the epitome of calm and professionalism until they pulled the trigger. It is a fear that the average black person in the US lives with. The guy's judgement was impaired, but his fear is not unjustified.

 

[Ludens the Red]

Do the people get off in these cases? Do their colleagues make excuses (or rationalisations) for them? I think maybe you jumped the gun and missed some of his point in attempting to argue with him? I'm joining this back and forth late so maybe I'm missing something?


And this is all well and good but we've seen examples in this thread of cops deescalating situations with armed people, impaired people, etc... I won't lie it irks that people are like 'Well you brought it on yourself'

Really? Is that where we are? And people wonder why there is anger, distrust, and fear....


And you're coming across like a bit of a prick based on your posts...

And yes I read the latest redcafe notice and I took a moment before hitting reply, but it is what is ...


Which is the salient point... but we still have posters in here doing the old 'Well actually..."

Oh the irony based on the other people you quoted. I’m not jumping any gun. He came in with some weird straw man shit that didn’t even make any sense. Are you actully seriously asking if there are occasions in healthcare where employees get off when fecking up?

Understood, but it's clear that this is no means a 'normal' DUI, he was compliant and agreeable with the police and didn't deny having drinks.
At what point is getting an arrest more important than actually protecting the community and helping him find his way home in a safe manner?
It comes across like there was an incentive to arrest this man at all costs, and I'm struggling to see why.

Mate. A drink drive is a drink drive. Are you actually suggesting there are circumstances where police should take people home and do nothing when they’ve been caught drink driving ? You also have to take them back to a police station where they provide a breath reading on a proper machine.

Guys come on, like it was wrong to shoot him, that officer shouldn’t be policing on the street ever again but let’s not get ridiculous about things.
Trying to make a thing about the initial arrest is like trying to frame an already guilty man. The evidence is there, he shoots him in the back.

 

[afrocentricity]

Are you actully seriously asking if there are occasions in healthcare where employees get off when fecking up?

You ever heard of the term 'rhetorical question'?....

So instead of just reactively arguing, think about it. Either they don't get off and they are held to account (but unlike most police). Or they do get off, just like the police often do. Which would be pretty fecked up for the people on the receiving end of their 'mistakes'. We both know which one it is...

 

[Organic Potatoes]

Understood, but it's clear that this is no means a 'normal' DUI, he was compliant and agreeable with the police and didn't deny having drinks.
At what point is getting an arrest more important than actually protecting the community and helping him find his way home in a safe manner?
It comes across like there was an incentive to arrest this man at all costs, and I'm struggling to see why.

He was ‘in control’ of the vehicle and blew a 0.1 with the limit being 0.08, not to mention having to wake him up. It was straightforward and there was nothing untoward happening here until after the cuffs came out.

The first mistake was probably the green officer who was the shooter going straight for the taser instead of helping his partner subdue the suspect on the ground (could be wrong on that one?), allowing the situation to get out of control.