Club Sale | It’s done!

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

)Meanwhile Nice/Lausanne's mismanagement has not been highlighted enough (ex giving 170k a week to Ramsay, buying/loaning an army of washed up players such as Barkley, Ramsay, Pepe, involving some racist as external advisor).

An “army”, includes one loan player who was excellent last time round in France before moving to Arsenal and 2 other players, both of them free transfers.

Hardly a fecking army
You don’t half enjoy going full OOT on INEOS ownership of Nice.

It’s funny still that you are supporting a regime that owns a club where the entire idea has been to pay washed up players insane wages to play for them.

 

[red thru&thru]

Course Nice want to compete with PSG, they'd be stupid not too want that as they are the team to beat in France.
Not sure what the issue is with that?

Did you not read my last post?

All buyers are business men, they are buying for business reasons primarily.
With Qatar there is the other added element of state influence and 'sportswashing'.

As for what you say about doing all you can do to make it work, the same applies for any potential buyer surely?

If you're going to compete then compete. So if that is the measure, Nice aren't doing a very good job.

With INEOS there is the element of Greenswashing.

And you were the one questioning the reasons behind Jassim's bid and I answered it. You were asking the motive of his purchase as though it was exclusive to just him.

 

[Sly1]

No one knows if Jassim actually exists. There's only ever been one photo of him that looks AI generated.

So a whole Raine group,etc overseeing the sale process are deceiving us right?

For Christ's sake the Sheikh is a well known military trained man in the UK who also serves as the Chairman of a bank in Qatar and was also part of a bank in Switzerland.

Stop being lazy and agenda-driven and research more on him.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

If you're going to compete then compete.

Aye, it’s that simple during times of FFP scrutiny like we have these days.
You want little Nice to play catch up and compete in just over 3 years with a club that has spent 1.5 bn on it’s playing squad since it’s takeover and that dishes out wages to washed up players like Ramos which make Aaron fecking Ramsey look cheap.

 

[AndySmith1990]

Fair play to those who have the patience to argue about the same old boring shit a hundred times per week.

Now everyone's been to Manchester to meet hopefully some significant news later next week

 

[NotThatSoph]

Time will tell. Only when we find out who the stakeholders on the Foundation are, if they win the bid then we can make any judgement. Like I said before it seems like the two parties have different business models.

If that's the way you do it then you must think that City are privately owned?

The owners are City Football Group, which again are 81 % Newton Investment and Development, 18 % Silver Lake (American investment firm), and the last 1 % is owned by two Chinese firms China Media Capital and CITIC Group. Newton is basically just another name of Abu Dhabi United Group, which officially is privately owned by Sheikh Mansour.

 

[Spoony]

If there is one thing I can's stand even more than a genocide, it's when people don’t cough into their elbow.

Understandable since Covid.

 

[Sly1]

Everything I've read says he's not rich enough to afford it, but I'm being told the bid won't necessarily be state-backed. This doesn't make any sense to me.

Everyone responding is just ignoring the question I'm asking.

I would advise you to stop believing everything you read online. Nobody knows the feck in one's pocket or docket and it's not everyone that's willing to disclose everything to people and I am that type. The Sheikh and his dad seem to be that type.

This is the reason it is difficult to give precise answer to your question.

From the little I have gathered , the Sheikh 's dad seems to be very rich and highly connected worldwide.

I think we should leave this question for the future.

 

[devilish]

An “army”, includes one loan player who was excellent last time round in France before moving to Arsenal and 2 other players, both of them free transfers.

Hardly a fecking army
You don’t half enjoy going full OOT on INEOS ownership of Nice.

It would have been mature if you discussed all the post instead

 

[AneRu]

Is the source of the funds from the members of the Qatar royal family not backed by the state?


Unless this is a lie, the Malaga owner is part of the royal family, not some random businessman.

By this logic King Charles is also an alleged sex trafficker like his brother! If the source of funding for the Malaga, PSG and potentially United ownerships is the same then why the hell are PSG playing CL football and not relegated like Malaga?

Jassim could be a front or he could have secured concessionary from the state to back his bid but that doesn't guarantee that the running of United will be similar to that of PSG or Malaga. The people who will do the actual running will have their own ideas and competencies whose success or failure will be informed by circumstances peculiar to United and its challenges.

The same goes for Ineos. All the prospective owners will start with United under a different series of circumstances and trajectories from where PSG, Malaga or even City started from. The smart money for either will be to go with the Murtough + ETH combo for a couple of season, add to what they have built so far and then reassess in 2026 or thereabouts.

 

[Brophs]

Understandable since Covid.

We all have our own bug bears. One of mine is noncing. Honestly, it winds me RIGHT up.

 

[georgieworst]

Didn’t mean to dox you.

It might surprise you but there was a lot of chanting in the Stretford End around 1989 with this exact message.

 

[crossy1686]

I got interested in who he is and run to wiki which says he is an American political freelancer reporter based in Washington DC!!!
What?
That proves manutd’s massive fanbase is real? Very interesting…

He started this season covering Chelsea in the pre season because he was friendly/close to Bohely, so he had some inside scoops on players they were making bids for before anyone else.

Then he tweeted about a player that United and Chelsea were in for and he realised there was a much, much bigger market in the United arena of transfer muppetry, so now he just makes shit up on a regular basis or copies what other people are saying.

 

[Mindhunter]

If only they were crying this much when City and Newcastle were bought too.
If there is one thing I can't stand even more than a totalitarian reign, it's double standard.

Exactly. We wouldn't be here if these deals were stopped in the first place. Somehow we are the dam that's holding back the flood of medieval barbarism that threatens the entire world.

Glazers are the worst leeches who hide behind western values and democracy and suck money in anyway they can, deploying money across all sorts of shady deals around the world. Are these journalists trying to appeal to them to not sell to the highest bidder?

Or is this some sort of lobbying to stop us from matching the deal which our irrelevant neighbors got a few years back and totally decimated the sanctity of the competition.

This was bound to happen when the Super League failed. The wheels were set in motion when City and Chelsea were allowed to run riot and effectively buy the league with blood money.

 

[sglowrider]

If that's the way you do it then you must think that City are privately owned?

The owners are City Football Group, which again are 81 % Newton Investment and Development, 18 % Silver Lake (American investment firm), and the last 1 % is owned by two Chinese firms China Media Capital and CITIC Group. Newton is basically just another name of Abu Dhabi United Group, which officially is privately owned by Sheikh Mansour.

Clearly they have business model in play. Seed funding and then sell to outside investors.

 

[NotThatSoph]

Clearly they have business model in play. Seed funding and then sell to outside investors.

"They", as in Newton/ADUG, are the government, even though officially they're not.

 

[Champ]

If you're going to compete then compete. So if that is the measure, Nice aren't doing a very good job.

With INEOS there is the element of Greenswashing.

And you were the one questioning the reasons behind Jassim's bid and I answered it. You were asking the motive of his purchase as though it was exclusive to just him.

It's been three and a bit years, PSG are a decade ahead of Nice, they weren't likely to compete straight away!
I get fans want instant gratification, but that really isn't possible!
I'd say Nice are now on the right path with steady progress being made.

Not really sure I understand the greenwashing element, as INEOs are already introducing several aspects which reduce their environmental impact.
What do they have to gain in terms of greenwashing from owning a football club where football is already under scrutiny for being carbon heavy and having a detrimental impact on the environment?

Again, of you'd actually read my post you'd see I stipulated every bid is from a business person.
I stated: All bids are from business people, people that will want to make money from this venture.

Please read properly next time.

 

[sglowrider]

"They", as in Newton/ADUG, are the government, even though officially they're not.

Silver lake?

 

[NotThatSoph]

Silver lake?

No, Newton/ADUG. Officially the only government with an ownership stake in City is China, because CITIC Group is state owned. In the same way, if the Qatari bid wins we won't find out when we know who the stakeholders are, they'll be private entities on paper even if they're not.

 

[Plant0x84]

Because INEOS will need to borrow to buy us. Their whole company isn’t worth what what glazers want.

We won’t want huge investments. We need someone to clear our debts so that we can use our own money. Sky will be the limit for us if that happens.

Woah! When did the Glazers raise their valuation for the club to £65bn+ ???
So much misinformation and lies being spread about INEOS.

 

[Godfather]

Fair play to those who have the patience to argue about the same old boring shit a hundred times per week.

Now everyone's been to Manchester to meet hopefully some significant news later next week

Especially when they can do feck all about it. There's simply a very good chance we'll be bought by the Qataris and that they will own us for a very long time.

 

[Plant0x84]

Everything I've read says he's not rich enough to afford it, but I'm being told the bid won't necessarily be state-backed. This doesn't make any sense to me.

Everyone responding is just ignoring the question I'm asking.

The obvious answer is usually the correct answer.

 

[Plant0x84]

Right womb at the right time.

In a way, aren’t we all just lucky sperms?

 

[sglowrider]

No, Newton/ADUG. Officially the only government with an ownership stake in City is China, because CITIC Group is state owned. In the same way, if the Qatari bid wins we won't find out when we know who the stakeholders are, they'll be private entities on paper even if they're not.

Its a SPV. Its the seed company. No doubt that its a gov't funded entity.

Its typical of startups or new businesses -- you have seed funding then as you grow the business or require additional funding to expand, you get external investors who will buy a %%. That provides a valuation of that initial startup. Then at a later stage, they may sell their stake to other investors or dilute to bring in more investors.
So the point is that it may start off as a 100% funded Abu Dhabi entity but who knows, in 20 years time the gov't entity may only own a minority stake in the multi-club organisation.
There are plenty of examples of companies who may be financially funded by governments for a % of the equity. But gets diluted in time.

I don't have an issue with the Abu Dhabi model. What I have an issue with is how they blatantly cooked their books -- possibly because they, within the City sports group (and under the initiatives of the seed investor, Abu Dhabi govt) failed to meet the original targets promised. But crap like this happens a lot. Hell, I have cooked/sandbagged the books too within my little businesses in startups or with large orgs.

 

[Plant0x84]

On a totally bizarre note, although I am not that invested as to who United's new owners are, I had a dream that Sheikh Jassim picked me and an unknown companion of mine up from the airport in a sports car which looked like a Tesla but was not. Is this a sign?

I think it’s a sign that you may be more invested in the owners than you think!

 

[Spoony]

We all have our own bug bears. One of mine is noncing. Honestly, it winds me RIGHT up.

Christ, another principled caf user.

 

[Mockney]

If only they were crying this much when City and Newcastle were bought too.
If there is one thing I can't stand even more than a totalitarian reign, it's double standard.

You’re right, United fans that criticised state ownership in the past but are now bending over for it are indeed the very worst.

 

[Wumminator]

You’re right, United fans that criticised state ownership in the past but are now bending over for it are indeed the very worst.

no no. Those people are fine. Those who have ALWAYS been against state ownership despite the club - they’re the hypocrites!

 

[Plant0x84]

Is Sheikh Jassim actually a real person? There seems to only be two pictures of him on the internet and they both look like stock images. Add that to him not turning up to the meeting and I’m getting red flags. Is he the actual bidder or just the stooge for a state bid?

Jim has definitely won this round of PR by being at the meetings and being filmed walking round OT and meeting fans. About time he picked up his PR game because it’s been awful so far.

That is the correct question.

Until he appears in public we can’t be sure. His profile is a great one to distance the bid from QIA/QSI just enough to satisfy FIFA. The true test will be what happens if they relax their dual owners rules.

 

[Plant0x84]

It's a pointless question is why, nobody knows how much he's worth.

Just because a publication throws a number at it doesn't deem it true. The likes of those Royal Family members in Qatar, Saudi etc rarely disclose their finances, less so to western publications.

Is that not slightly concerning?

 

[NotThatSoph]

Its a SPV. Its the seed company. No doubt that its a gov't funded entity.

Its typical of startups or new businesses -- you have seed funding then as you grow the business or require additional funding to expand, you get external investors who will buy a %%. That provides a valuation of that initial startup. Then at a later stage, they may sell their stake to other investors or dilute to bring in more investors.
So the point is that it may start off as a 100% funded Abu Dhabi entity but who knows, in 20 years time the gov't entity may only own a minority stake in the multi-club organisation.
There are plenty of examples of companies who may be financially funded by governments for a % of the equity. But gets diluted in time.

I don't have an issue with the Abu Dhabi model. What I have an issue with is how they blatantly cooked their books -- possibly because they, within the City sports group (and under the initiatives of the seed investor, Abu Dhabi govt) failed to meet the original targets promised. But crap like this happens a lot. Hell, I have cooked/sandbagged the books too within my little businesses in startups or with large orgs.

It's not "funded" by the state, it is the state. Sheikh Mansour isn't the actual owner. This isn't something anyone has ever doubted, but now because Qatar some United fans will have to pretend to.

You yourself seem to go back and forth. Several times you've admitted that this bid in reality is the state of Qatar, but it's fine because those who don't like it are immature, virtue signalling, woke SJWs, in contrast to you who are grown-up and pragmatic. Yet, at other times you for some reason feel the need to deny the obvious.

 

[sglowrider]

The problem with 90% of this thread is a reflection of the sense of lack of control on the part of the United fans. Too many people's identities are tied up to Manchester United --- and yet it's going to taken over by people with varying degrees of dubiousness. And as a result, personally tainted by the new ownership.

This helplessness or sense of lack of control then projects or pushes back with the focus on discussions of morality, ownership, semantics, loss of identity etc -- and as a result, indirectly passing judgment on each other.

It could have summed up in less than 10 pages and yet, 820+ pages later... but it's actually cathartic or therapeutic for many.

Passive/aggressively arguing with each other when deep down inside, we know, we have absolutely zero control over the subject matters -- especially when it comes to morality or ownership of the potential owners.

Manchester United represents our identity, history etc.

To see it change once again after nearly 2 decades has discombobulated many here. Change scares people.

But eventually, it will revert back to football discussions once again and the past 800 pages would have been forgotten.

 

[seegoblu]

I wonder if the reason the Glazers have such a high valuation (£6B+) attached to the club isn’t due to having watched PSG and City and their practice of having quasi-affiliated companies provide sponsorship money and dreaming jealously.

Given how much success the Glazers have had in creating commercial opportunities for the club, mustn’t their valuation be based on the new owner’s potential to increase revenues based on a Qatari (and SJR, to a much lesser degree) ownership model?

So long as the club maintains its enormous fan base, it won’t be hard to justify (FFP) getting the best paid deal in each and every sponsorship category. If fans’ assumptions about how PSG and City‘s sponsorships work are accurate, just think how much revenue the Glazers could have wrung out of the club had they had a portfolio of revenue rich quasi-affiliates to compel sponsorship from.

If they’re right, the fact that the kit sponsorship is available will be the first data point about intent of the new owner, regardless of whether it is SJR or Qatari. Who sponsors and for how much more revenue than any other deal before it, to me, will be very telling. Significantly increasing revenues by creating new categories with guaranteed uptake, plus renewing existing deals at the highest price point across the board, should see transfer muppets the necessary budget to safely (from FFP) dream of additions in each window.

Obviously the pitch about the commercial potential of the club is only enhanced by the development potential around the club. The Qatari bid captures that idea and they aren’t alone. I believe that the Dallas Cowboys have built a commercial village around their enormous state of the art mega-stadium that attracts fans and locals year-round. It’s a reason why the Cowboys are the most valuable club in the world. With a value around £7B, you can see the Glazer’s inspiration.

The Glazers can see how to capitalize on all of this “untapped“ commercial potential (but don’t have the resources and connections) and want to share in that eventuality by attaching a premium to their valuation of the club…extra billion or so? Whichever bidder shares that vision and is willing to pay for it will win the bidding.

 

[Plant0x84]

Anyone who is claiming it's the best deal for the club should be honest and admit they think he's backed by the Qatari state. If you don't think he is then you really don't have any evidence to think he's the sugar daddy you crave.

Great post newbie! Very true!

 

[Marcelinho87]

Is that not slightly concerning?

Not for me personally, no.

 

[stevoc]

Daddy is extremely wealthy and has more than enough.

Yeah to be honest I doubt even his father's wealthy enough to fund the project they've proposed from his own funds.

 

[Plant0x84]

@ MackRobinson

I think you need to read the statements from both camp.

Jassim 's statement was very rich in comparison to SJR.

Pardon the pun, eh?

 

[sglowrider]

I wonder if the reason the Glazers have such a high valuation (£6B+) attached to the club isn’t due to having watched PSG and City and their practice of having quasi-affiliated companies provide sponsorship money and dreaming jealously.

Given how much success the Glazers have had in creating commercial opportunities for the club, mustn’t their valuation be based on the new owner’s potential to increase revenues based on a Qatari (and SJR, to a much lesser degree) ownership model?

So long as the club maintains its enormous fan base, it won’t be hard to justify (FFP) getting the best paid deal in each and every sponsorship category. If fans’ assumptions about how PSG and City‘s sponsorships work are accurate, just think how much revenue the Glazers could have wrung out of the club had they had a portfolio of revenue rich quasi-affiliates to compel sponsorship from.

If they’re right, the fact that the kit sponsorship is available will be the first data point about intent of the new owner, regardless of whether it is SJR or Qatari. Who sponsors and for how much more revenue than any other deal before it, to me, will be very telling. Significantly increasing revenues by creating new categories with guaranteed uptake, plus renewing existing deals at the highest price point across the board, should see transfer muppets the necessary budget to safely (from FFP) dream of additions in each window.

Obviously the pitch about the commercial potential of the club is only enhanced by the development potential around the club. The Qatari bid captures that idea and they aren’t alone. I believe that the Dallas Cowboys have built a commercial village around their enormous state of the art mega-stadium that attracts fans and locals year-round. It’s a reason why the Cowboys are the most valuable club in the world. With a value around £7B, you can see the Glazer’s inspiration.

The Glazers can see how to capitalize on all of this “untapped“ commercial potential (but don’t have the resources and connections) and want to share in that eventuality by attaching a premium to their valuation of the club…extra billion or so? Whichever bidder shares that vision and is willing to pay for it will win the bidding.

Plus if the Cowboys are worth that much, with the global reach of United, in their eyes, United is highly undervalued with numbers of fans in some important grown markets.
''£6 billion is the ticket to make multitudes of the original investment with the right amount of funding and the right business model''.

 

[Plant0x84]

So a whole Raine group,etc overseeing the sale process are deceiving us right?

For Christ's sake the Sheikh is a well known military trained man in the UK who also serves as the Chairman of a bank in Qatar and was also part of a bank in Switzerland.

Stop being lazy and agenda-driven and research more on him.

Wikipedia is your friend!
Somebody has been drinking the kool aid!

 

[sglowrider]

Yeah to be honest I doubt even his father's wealthy enough to fund the project they've proposed from his own funds.

I highly doubt if the dad, an investor will plonk 100% of the funding. He would be daft. He will get a consortium of investors. Spread the risk.
Who -- will depend on their business model and the eventual stakeholders of the Foundation.

INEOS' business model is represented by who was in the delegation -- INEOS will be a multi-club model.