Club Sale | It’s done!

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MTF said:
Bank assets are very different from equity value, because of the business model of banks (much more levered than other businesses). Credit Suisse had around $500bn in assets before the Swiss govt forced them to be taken under by UBS a couple of weeks ago.

The thing about it is that even in specialized finance information sources it is hard to find much about what Al Mirqab owns or what it's been involved in. I pulled them up using my Bloomberg Terminal and sure enough they're there, and Shabaz and Jassim's profiles show up as linked to it. But the only news related to it is from the Heritage Oil acquisition in 2014, and then subsequent actions by Heritage Oil. If they owned stocks in the US or other jurisdictions that would generally show up as you have to file that sort of thing, and there's nothing in that sense. And it doesn't seem like they've done that much other business in Europe or the US, or if they did they've done it under a completely different name and somehow also kept it obfuscated enough that even the specialized information tracking tools within finance haven't picked up it was actually them.
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Yeah, that's true, was more an example to him also being heavily involved in other sectors which involving high-value assets when you dig deeper into him. I'm not that familiar with Bloomberg Terminal, but not very surprising that HBJ doesn't have a large portfolio on it, considering he is, as our resident Frenchman nicely put it, a bit of an offshore enthusiast as shown in the Paper leaks. Wouldn't be surprised if he has been using a significant amount of shells to hide his name from investments.

Hence why Forbes understandingly have to be conservative when estimating his family's net worth, even if half of that estimate is tied to a yacht and a painting. His Al-Mirqab investments seems be tied domestically, in a country noted for a complete lack of financial transparency. Be interesting to see if that will change with the country and region more and more open to external investments.
 
Licha-Vidic said:
Glazers are in a fix. You can see why they want to sell


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There’s no way they can stay on with that. Even with a wee backing from Elliot they wouldn’t be able to change anything going forward and might even struggle to give themselves a dividend.

God help us and them if they do stay though.
 
Tibs said:
Glazers should be flogged publicly as they leave United.
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This.

If this was happening to Madrid or Barca I'm convinced at least one of the Glazer family would have been got at by now. They are very lucky we are pretty tame fanbase by global standards despite the size of it.
 
Figgins said:
Interesting, given the HBJ branch of Al Thani house no longer hold any government positions. That looks shut out, regardless of what you call no bad blood. Whether or not it (the bid) aligns with the overall strategy is irrelevant.
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What I mean by bad blood is that a decade later he seems to be able to operate freely inside and outside the country to boost his family wealth instead of being made persona non grata, usually tied to people which previously held significant amount of power but lost it due to abdication. The Emir also entrusts his son Jassim with chairing the biggest Islamic Bank in the country which the State is a significant owner of.

But it's mostly speculation because it's hard to find any credible reports on the innergoings of the Qatari State.

I disagree on the relevance of the ties to Qatar's vision though - I think it's quite significant because I think it's a clear indication that the Emir himself probably backs the bid (even if not financially).
 
Nou_Camp99 said:
This.

If this was happening to Madrid or Barca I'm convinced at least one of the Glazer family would have been got at by now. They are very lucky we are pretty tame fanbase by global standards despite the size of it.
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Or even at Liverpool. Honestly, whether the work of 'US-based' or visiting fans, the whole outer edge of the Glazer compound would be littered with molotovs, the air regularly filled with drones, Glazer US offices glassed, at least one pot-shot attempt a year given the US' particular culture, the lot, to say nothing of the incessant protests outside the ground (our protests x 10) and similarly incessant more 'productive' [and actually legal] bombardment of sponsors on social media threatening boycotts and the rest....
 
Chief123 said:
Im really not concerned about the Elliot rumours and I’m not sure why others are getting worried by it.

From a financial point of view, it makes no sense when compared to the other 2 offers.

Glazers reducing their stake in the club and then getting even less dividends per year makes very little sense compared to taking a very lucrative up front sale of the club.

It’s like being offered £100k up front and then £10k per year or have £50m up front right now.
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The fact is these Glazers obviously hate us supporters after all we have shown nothing but hate to them so fair enough.
They have all the power, they don‘t need to sell untill the banks come calling for the £500 million + that Utd owe, even then they may just seek investment to pay that loan off and then they can take the piss even more, I do wish people will stop saying “they have to sell”. Nothing could be further from the truth.
 
I wonder what would have happened if SAF had come out in 2009 - in a position of strength and able to affect the Glazers attempts to grow the commercial brand - after the Ronaldo sale and the refusal of the team to properly recruit given the debt, and just openly said that the Glazers needed to sell if they weren't able to maintain the club properly and that their model was jeopardizing the club's competitiveness. It's pretty clearly he wouldn't have under almost any circumstances (whether through potential legal ramifications or through guilty conscience after ROG, or both), but, of all the hypotheticals or hinge points, maybe that might have been one.

I don't think the ramifications were quite as clear in 2005, even amongst the protests and green and gold and journo reports, and there was this assurance that they would grow the revenue so quickly that the debt could be easily serviced and brought down speedily, but 09 was definitely a red flag (particularly in light of the collapse of the larger asset-debt based model in 08, before that all got artificially inflated/ignored, as opposed to the wider belief that business practices were just always rational and costed which was floating round publically in 2005, but that's another discussion)...
 
Melville Red said:
The fact is these Glazers obviously hate us supporters after all we have shown nothing but hate to them so fair enough.
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You say it as if we’ve been treating them harshly. They’ve run our club horrifically, the hatred is more than warranted.
 
Does this Premier League ruling send Qatar spinning off the edge of the trench and Sir Jim with his targeting computer switched off and just needing to send the magic number down the exhaust port?
 
Loon said:
Does this Premier League ruling send Qatar spinning off the edge of the trench and Sir Jim with his targeting computer switched off and just needing to send the magic number down the exhaust port?
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I very much doubt this will have affected the Qatari bidders in honesty although im sure they will face opposition from pannicking rival clubs like City and Liverpool who will do everything possible to try to stop any Qatari takeover going through.
 
Nou_Camp99 said:
This.

If this was happening to Madrid or Barca I'm convinced at least one of the Glazer family would have been got at by now. They are very lucky we are pretty tame fanbase by global standards despite the size of it.
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i think its the UK in general, look whats happening in France at the moment.

Can you imagine a group of English businessman going to America and trying to hijack the NBA/NFL? You'd get sued for 100billion, or shot
 
Watching the development of Man Utd on NY Stock Exchange you dont feel really confident anything will happen.

Also makes you wonder if the Qatar-thing was just something Raine/Glazer spun to increase the valuation (in agreement with the Qatar people off course). I mean, some random banker from Qatar few had heard about? With very little to back that he have the funds. Ok, he has a rich dad, but not that rich and certainly not that keen on this type of investment. Bit weird that he did not show up at Old Trafford himself (like Ratcliff)?
 
Licha-Vidic said:
Glazers are in a fix. You can see why they want to sell


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So Qatar are putting up 5B for the club, 1B+ for facilities and a further billion to clear this debt?

Nobody is or will ever get anywhere near that offer if they don’t sell now they’ll never sell
 
andersj said:
Watching the development of Man Utd on NY Stock Exchange you dont feel really confident anything will happen.

Also makes you wonder if the Qatar-thing was just something Raine/Glazer spun to increase the valuation (in agreement with the Qatar people off course). I mean, some random banker from Qatar few had heard about? With very little to back that he have the funds. Ok, he has a rich dad, but not that rich and certainly not that keen on this type of investment. Bit weird that he did not show up at Old Trafford himself (like Ratcliff)?
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Some conspiracy theory is that!
 
andersj said:
Watching the development of Man Utd on NY Stock Exchange you dont feel really confident anything will happen.

Also makes you wonder if the Qatar-thing was just something Raine/Glazer spun to increase the valuation (in agreement with the Qatar people off course). I mean, some random banker from Qatar few had heard about? With very little to back that he have the funds. Ok, he has a rich dad, but not that rich and certainly not that keen on this type of investment. Bit weird that he did not show up at Old Trafford himself (like Ratcliff)?
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I am of the opinion Jassim isn't a real dude and it's just a state bid using this made up person/face as a front.
 
I wonder if the Sheikh is like the Mandarin in IRON MAN 3? This could all end up equally as shite...
 
Castia said:
So Qatar are putting up 5B for the club, 1B+ for facilities and a further billion to clear this debt?

Nobody is or will ever get anywhere near that offer if they don’t sell now they’ll never sell
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We don't know exactly what they are putting up, but the Glazers will only care about the bolded part.
 
Infra-red said:
We don't know exactly what they are putting up, but the Glazers will only care about the bolded part.
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True but the talk of them staying on and taking more investment is surely bollocks now given the numbers released.


1 billion owed out in debt with a further 1-2 billion required for the stadium/facilities before we even talk about money for transfers there’s feck all left
 
andersj said:
Watching the development of Man Utd on NY Stock Exchange you dont feel really confident anything will happen.

Also makes you wonder if the Qatar-thing was just something Raine/Glazer spun to increase the valuation (in agreement with the Qatar people off course). I mean, some random banker from Qatar few had heard about? With very little to back that he have the funds. Ok, he has a rich dad, but not that rich and certainly not that keen on this type of investment. Bit weird that he did not show up at Old Trafford himself (like Ratcliff)?
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I doubt the bid is genuinely private, but this is just bizarre. You genuinely think the Glazers and Raine have colluded to fabricate a fake sheikh to drive up the Ineos bid?? Wow. :wenger:
 
It is staggering to think that they will not sell, in what universe is this even a thing, they can do no more with the club apart from sell up, its over.
 
Castia said:
So Qatar are putting up 5B for the club, 1B+ for facilities and a further billion to clear this debt?

Nobody is or will ever get anywhere near that offer if they don’t sell now they’ll never sell
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Add to buy the other % of shareholders + transfer kitty.

Then it does look United need a considerable amount of money to make things right then better.


A very pivot moment for the club for sure
 
Baxquux said:
I wonder what would have happened if SAF had come out in 2009 - in a position of strength and able to affect the Glazers attempts to grow the commercial brand - after the Ronaldo sale and the refusal of the team to properly recruit given the debt, and just openly said that the Glazers needed to sell if they weren't able to maintain the club properly and that their model was jeopardizing the club's competitiveness. It's pretty clearly he wouldn't have under almost any circumstances (whether through potential legal ramifications or through guilty conscience after ROG, or both), but, of all the hypotheticals or hinge points, maybe that might have been one.

I don't think the ramifications were quite as clear in 2005, even amongst the protests and green and gold and journo reports, and there was this assurance that they would grow the revenue so quickly that the debt could be easily serviced and brought down speedily, but 09 was definitely a red flag (particularly in light of the collapse of the larger asset-debt based model in 08, before that all got artificially inflated/ignored, as opposed to the wider belief that business practices were just always rational and costed which was floating round publically in 2005, but that's another discussion)...
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Ferguson was fully on board with the transfer strategy under the Glazers. More than that, he was driving it. He became much tighter in his older age and more obsessed with value. There is zero indication that he was refused transfer funds by the Glazers in 09 or any other year.
 
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Chief123 said:
You say it as if we’ve been treating them harshly. They’ve run our club horrifically, the hatred is more than warranted.
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Not at all, I’m saying it as it is, we have rightly hated them they are just reciprocating that hate by systematically destroying our club, taking the money not spending any money on the infrastructure and spending just enough to keep us big enough to get the sponsorship and money in and make them richer when we become poorer.
Be in no doubt these feckers will not sell this time round, they will sell when they have had their full of fun and I fear that’s not been fulfilled, not yey any way.
 
Everything we know so far is just idle speculation. Nobody has a clue what is going on until the cowardly Glazers state their position and asking price, then enter into negotiations - something they are not doing thus far. We have a one-sided auction at the mo, almost a gun against the head statement of give me the money - but I’m not telling you how much. For all we know £5bn could be enough (would be in my position), so this could come down to bartering around a few hundred million either way. I’ve spent my career in M&A for a global organisation, and believe me, nothing happens until you get around the table. The seller may well have a price in mind, but the buyer will also want to offset any risks by trying to obtain warranties of any financial risks. At some point, IF they really want to sell, they have to get into negotiation.
 
Licha-Vidic said:
Glazers are in a fix. You can see why they want to sell


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It's probably a need to sell at this stage.

They've done this to themselves, if they actually hired competent people on the football side they wouldn't be in such a mess.
 
I did ask this a while ago, but think it got lost in the volume of posts.

Do you think there is a point where the government could/would step in if it looks like the Glazer ownership is risking the clubs future, as in making it so crippled by debt that one day we could go into receivership or the like. (For example defaulting to Elliot)?

Whatever the haters say, United is a national institution, and there should be a point where the government go enough is enough. Don’t know if there is anything they could do, just wondering.
 
Wezzaldo said:
I did ask this a while ago, but think it got lost in the volume of posts.

Do you think there is a point where the government could/would step in if it looks like the Glazer ownership is risking the clubs future, as in making it so crippled by debt that one day we could go into receivership or the like. (For example defaulting to Elliot)?

Whatever the haters say, United is a national institution, and there should be a point where the government go enough is enough. Don’t know if there is anything they could do, just wondering.
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:lol:
Jesus man the UK is going down the tubes with the current Gov.

Zero chance of them doing anything even if they could
 
Wezzaldo said:
I did ask this a while ago, but think it got lost in the volume of posts.

Do you think there is a point where the government could/would step in if it looks like the Glazer ownership is risking the clubs future, as in making it so crippled by debt that one day we could go into receivership or the like. (For example defaulting to Elliot)?

Whatever the haters say, United is a national institution, and there should be a point where the government go enough is enough. Don’t know if there is anything they could do, just wondering.
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I mean yes, they could but they won’t. Especially if we’re heading down the state backed route, they’ll be lining their pockets with back handers to facilitate. Same for if we were in trouble, there’s always someone making money.
 
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