I know I'm a hypocrite but right now it's the only way we are able to compete with City/Newcastle on a level playing field
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I know I'm a hypocrite but right now it's the only way we are able to compete with City/Newcastle on a level playing field
Cantona isn't a great example of your point in general though.
He was a knockdown price to get rid of a player they couldn't handle.
Even the British record was 5.5m in 92, and the world record already 10m, moving to 13m the same year.
meh, people said that when FSG bought Liverpool for 300m.
It might be a premium, although more likely we’ll be looking back in 15 years calling it a bargain.
Shearer went for €4.5m then, what did that get you 10 years later?
We got Veron for 10 times that, and RVN for 28.5m.
The point stands, with each decade there’s a strong case for “hyper inflation” in the transfer market.
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@Messier1994 some top quality stuff in this thread.
I have done further research on the topic and discovered some really relevant facts about Manchester United and the football business as a whole.
As one in-depth analysis at seekingalpha.com pointed out:
"In FY22 (June), employee benefit expenses made up 66% of total revenue, a primary reason why operating margin was a negative-15% even though revenue had largely recovered to pre-Covid levels. For FY23, management guided revenue of £590 million (+1.2% YoY) and adj. EBITDA of £105 million at the midpoint (+29% YoY). However, if we strip out all the financial shenanigans such as amortization, operating margin is expected to be another negative 10% for the year, as management will continue to invest in new players."
Src: https://seekingalpha.com/article/45...ted-more-like-chinese-art-marrying-french-rap
So as a summary one can say that the high salaries for players literally threaten the business model of football clubs as profitable corporations.
Following this information, I looked for sources that could give an impression about some concrete numbers and I found the following:
https://www.spotrac.com/epl/rankings/
2022-2023 Annual Salary Rankings in the EPL
| PLAYER | TEAM | ANNUAL SALARY | |
|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Cristiano Ronaldo FORWARD | MUFC | £26,800,000 |
| 2 | Kevin De Bruyne MIDFIELDER | MCFC | £20,800,000 |
| 3 | Erling Haaland FORWARD | MCFC | £19,500,000 |
| David De Gea GOALKEEPER | MUFC | £19,500,000 | |
| 5 | Mohamed Salah FORWARD | LFC | £18,200,000 |
| Jadon Sancho FORWARD | MUFC | £18,200,000 | |
| 7 | Raphael Varane DEFENDER | MUFC | £17,680,000 |
| 8 | Raheem Sterling MIDFIELDER | CFC | £16,900,000 |
| 9 | Jack Grealish MIDFIELDER | MCFC | £15,600,000 |
| Carlos Casimiro MIDFIELDER | MUFC | £15,600,000 |
Of course depending on how reliable this source is (I can't judge it tbh), this would mean that Man Utd has 5 of the 10 highest paid players under contract while sporting success does not even closely reflect those immense spendings.
I think that's the core problem that any investor would have to face.
And I expect that there will be more players that will feel "betrayed" when this issue gets fixed by the management.
Besides investments into stadium and club infrastructure there must also be a bigger focus on improving the youth academy.
Scouting and developing homegrown talents is considered one of the few possible determining factors for a football club to grow intrinsic value without expanding spendings too much and achieve sporting and more importantly economic success.
That's been the case for years on end. Add in spiralling transfer fees and a scary dependence on TV money continually increasing and you have a business model built on sand.
The first reports glazers were looking for investment was quite a while ago, and indicated US. You would assume middle east would pay more money, but the process is likely further down the line than we think with their US network
If they invest properly in January, yes.
City have also looked shaky in games and unconvincing.
The Glazers haven't but if the proposed buyers want to increase the club value, the infrastructure is where they'll make the most profit.
Not necessarily, Liverpool have kept up with City the previous 4-5 seasons, aren't oil state backed and have improved their infrastructure by extending stands at Anfield.
It comes down to having the right manager and buying the right profile of players. The next owners will improve the infrastructure because as I said above, that is where they'll increase the value of the club as a whole the most.
He did say a few things of worth and one of them being that a potential new owner needs to engage with the fans or will have a miserable existence.
Thanks, I am most obliged!
1. Ronaldo is no longer under contract.
2. De Gea's contract expires in the summer. If he stays after that, his wages will in all likelihood be significantly reduced.
3. Despite our extravagant wage spending these last few years, we still have a healthy wage/turnover ratio.
4. Your source is shit.
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Hopefully that lines breaks down due to an eye watering approach from the middle east
The way interest rates are going in USA, any US consortium trying to borrow the capital for a $5billion + offer will have eye watering repayments. Hence i think it will be a bid from middle east.
Cant be a coincidence that glazers put Utd up for sale just after FSG put liverpool up for sale.
I want a middle east bid now,yes I will openly admit it makes me a hypocrite for blasting City in the past. However it has now reached the stage if you can't beat em join em.
Never go full City
I don’t particularly care but what apple did with their products made a lot of sense. It was doing it secretly that was the problem. They support their hardware a lot longer than android manufacturers do and to keep a decent battery life with newer software comprises have to be made in performance. They give you the choice now which is maybe how it should have been.
If you would rather not continue receiving software updates etc then you don’t need to install them.
Never go full City
I didn't want us to but then Newcastle got middle east money and fear the scousers could well too
Disney invested $30bn in Disney + content last year alone supposedly. These companies have tonnes of money.
Would anybody stop buying an iPhone? I didn’t stop buying dove body wash or whatever cos Liverpool are sponsored by them. It’s a ridiculous take.
Just to remind ourselves how bad the current owners are, and I very much doubt we could be bought by anyone worse if we're purely looking at it from a football perspective.
It’s going to be an oil state who purchases us I think, and I’m not happy about it but what can I do?
The game has changed so much and the ‘big boys’ are funded by human right’s abusing oil rich countries these days.
Utd and Liverpool will both follow suit. It will be an ultra competitive league and we might get a shiny new stadium. But they are the only positives I have.
The 16 City fans that they’ve got will probably support Utd again as well.
The game has changed so much and the ‘big boys’ are funded by human right’s abusing oil rich countries these days.
Utd and Liverpool will both follow suit. It will be an ultra competitive league and we might get a shiny new stadium. But they are the only positives I have.
The 16 City fans that they’ve got will probably support Utd again as well.
Bring on the Kuwaitis, Dubai lot or whoever. It will be far better than under the parasites and football opened Pandora's box with Middle Eastern money long ago. There's no going back now. We either join in or fall behind.
Completely agree. The annoying this it might still take a few years to catch up to City's standard but the sooner we can start the better.
We aren't catching City in the next 2-3 years regardless. It would take something incredibly unlikely for that to happen.
But if we can get new owners, new stadium / current stadium development in the works and back ETH in the market....we can't really ask for more than that tbh.
We need to pick up a few of the minor trophies though whilst we build to keep the spirits up though.
It greatly saddens me that club football has become a dick measuring contest between actual countries instead of an actual sport. It's a crime that the FA ever allowed this shit to infest the game.
You're not wrong but they did so what can you do? This is where the future lies clearly and like you I don't like it either but if we don't do it we will become an also ran club permanently.
Qatar and Abu Dhabi should never have been allowed to get involved in football because they both clearly didn't do it for the football or for profit either as there are far quicker and easier ways to make money than professional football.
I'd wish you were right about the healthiness of Man Utd's business prospects.
However, the reality is that the financials are not indicating a particularly sustainable business.
I'll give you some concrete numbers from the Man Utd Income statement:
(Currency in GBP. All numbers in thousands)
2019
Total Revenue: 627,122
Salaries and Wages: 332,356
2020
Total Revenue: 509,041
Salaries and Wages: 284,029
2021
Total Revenue: 494,117
Salaries and Wages: 322,600
2022
Total Revenue: 583,201
Salaries and Wages: 384,141
Src: https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/Man Utd/financials/
Just to clarify the meaning of the aforementioned numbers:
Total Revenue = The total amount of money that Manchester United received from all of its business operations.
Salaries and Wages = The amount of money that Manchester United spent only to pay their employees.
Of course the Salaries and Wages aren't the only expenses that a company like Man Utd has to bear.
Especially Interest Expenses (£ 25.5 Million in 2022) and Other G and A (General and Administrative) Expenses appear to be worth mentioning here.
Total Expenses (Currency in GBP. All numbers in thousands) for the years mentioned above:
2019 = 582,289
2020 = 519,233
2021 = 537,550
2022 = 667,778
On the basis of these numbers: What are your concrete arguments to speak of a "healthy wage/turnover ratio"?
As much as I respect your well-founded opinion, I have to confess that I find the source more convincing than your argumentation.
Also, City’s player wages
What is wrong with it?
Anyone else get a feeling the Glazers will still be in charge this time next year?
I know they acknowledge that they are looking for investment, and I feel that is what they will get but it won’t be the buyout we are hoping for.
I know they acknowledge that they are looking for investment, and I feel that is what they will get but it won’t be the buyout we are hoping for.
It is a good point that you never know what the future will hold.
I heard something I found pretty fascinating a while back that supposedly has had a big impact in especially the media market.
So not that long ago, people read books, cartoons and watched TV, and played some games. I.e you on average consumed stories during a big portion of your free time. Now with the massive amount of time people spend on either playing computer games, watching YouTube, reality shows — ie not consuming stories — it have naturally resulted in that today younger consumer just aren’t nearly as good at understanding a story, figuring out a plot. I think it’s at the Unviersity of Berkeley that extensive testing have been done on large sample groups for the movie industry from like the 50s to catch trends like this, and the result is clear. If people are told the same story today compared to in the 50s/70s/90s, a much bigger portion are confused and don’t get the plot.
As a direct result, sequels, remakes, spin-offs have become a lot more popular. It’s hard to tell a story from start to finish in 2 hours. You get a head start with the viewer knowing the background before it starts, it’s much easier. Etc etc etc. Its the same with games too.
Consequently — “brands”, old and new, are being horded by content creator. I recently saw how a creator of board games was sold for the same amount Chelsea went for, just under 3bn. The big big value was deemed to lie in all the “brands” owned by the board game creator. Ticket to ride, Settlers of Catan and a bunch of others. And not only for computer games, but also to be used in movies and series (Ticket to ride coming to Netflix soon?) and so forth.
This is a change that surely nobody foresaw. Now it’s in full flights. There is a massive massive increase of sequels and remakes on a list of the top 100 movies at the ticket offices compared to 30 years ago. The value of brands like Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, Marvel universe etc have increased astronomically.
I am 41 y/o, and of my younger colleagues that are perhaps 23-27, nobody watch linear TV ever. They stream everything they watch. We all know that physical newspapers have died. 90% of the subscribers are like 60+. All this happened in 30 years, how will the land lie in 30 years? Nobody knows. But it will surely be something else then what we have right now. In this context, a super strong brand always have value more than you can calculate on today. To some extent, it’s like having a lottery ticket.
This is just sad.
Edit: This goes for you guys as well.
It’s widely agreed within top flight football that a 50%-60% wage to turnover ratio is extremely healthy, 55% might just be the gold standard.
Appears you certainly need to do some more research into this one: https://www.footballbettingsites.org.uk/blog/what-is-wages-to-turnover-ratio-in-football/
Not sure where you’re getting your figures from, appears they may include the likes of Pogba? but all the sources I can find current have our playing staff wage bill including Ronaldo at $238m. With Ronaldo gone that now lands close to $205m.
Extremely healthy.
We know they are absolute bollocks. We know City pay double wages due to the footy leaks stuff.
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I think we will have new owners by Q1 2023, Glazers are panicking about the global recession which is predicted plus it makes sense to why they’re throwing money around on Casemiro etc as they want to leave the new owners “a good squad” of players as it makes the package more attractive maybe?
They want cash. They won’t want to drag this out for a few years. And according to a few journalists/ITKs; we’ve been ‘For Sale’ since August.
Of course, we are all predicting stuff without knowing any of the hard facts.
We might have a buyer right now and it’s all been agreed. Who knows what’s going down in Florida?
I think that there's a chance that some of them will remain, but there has been speculation for a while that at least a couple of the siblings are looking for a way out. A partial sale with Joel and Avi remaining in overall control of the club, could be a possibility. The investment would likely be used to fund significant refurbishment works on Old Trafford and Carrington.
A full sale is possible too, of course, but by no means guaranteed and would probably take six months or so.
Add me too. I’ll take some Middle Eastern money too!
Unfortunately I genuinely believe it’s going to be an American based sourced owner. Most likely a consortium. I have a feeling the glazers have already got into some advanced discussions with potential parties.
Glad someone said it. Years of mocking City and their oil financed sport washing cash doped victories, or laughing at PSG and their hopelessness in the CL but the moment the cash is potentially on our table many have sold out quicker than they can say ‘bye glazer scum!’
Sadly we’ll have a tonne of fans dressed as Arabs dancing outside OT if they buy the club, lapping up the new away kit in their state colours.
I didn’t think United fans would stoop to that, but as you can see in here, so many are absolutely desperate for it they are jumping from thread to thread slagging off any other viable option (INEOS, US investors etc), as they try to work backwards from a position of desperately wanting state ownership to buy them Mbappe & co.
Some serious evidence in this thread that sports washing works like a charm.
Absolutely. Tragic really….
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