Club Sale | It’s done!

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I hope my question makes sense:

Presumably one of Ineos's few advantages over Sheikh Jassim is that they are only(!) after buying the Glazer's shares, whereas Sheikh Jassim wants 100% of the club.

If that became a problem down the road, would Sheikh Jassim be able to start by just buying the Glazer's shares, get majority ownership in place and then buy out the rest seperately?

Judas said:
Think you’re wrong about that, you’d see unprecedented levels of protest if after all this they try and stay.
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Well like I say, I hope it's true but I don't personally see it going that far again. Security would also be tighter.

I think there would be huge protests in the streets etc, but again that won't even get fed back to them in Florida.

Also the people who advise the Glazer's aren't foolish. If they decide to stick around then they'll more than likely announce it soon after the season has ended so that fans have 3 months to calm down and so they can't disrupt games
 
NK86 said:
There's talks of a second round of bidding going to start soon but here you are talking about Elliot giving the Glazers siblings 3bil to cash out? The loan cannot be put on United, so how will the Glazers actually service it unless they sell off OT and Carrington for starters.

Also, Elliot offered that Chinese guy terms of 15% interest to buy AC Milan when debt was actually cheap, but somehow will give Glazers better terms when debt has become so much costlier?

Yeah, I call BS on this. Either you are just wumming to get attention (highly likely considering you said in an earlier post that they have 2bil in reserves in liquidity and now contradictorily claim they are practically broke) or ... nope, you are definitely wumming.
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Its total BS, Elliot aren't idiots to buy up 44% of United and leave the two idiots who control 24% having a majority vote. So it would be a loan, a loan that Avram and Joe cant procure on their own and which they would need to put on United which will attract at least £50m in interest thereby crippling the club's ability to complete the rebuild, the same rebuild which they are £300m in debt for and need to succeed.

The Glazers are greedy but surely Joel and Avram know that such a deal with Elliot
 
First and foremost the Glazers are business people, they know that now is the defining period of their ownership and a sale makes absolutely the most sense and that anything else would
be akin to rearranging the furniture on the titanic, they will not miss out on walking away into the Florida sunset with their Qatari billions and a maximum profit.
 
crossy1686 said:
We would know based on stock movement if they were staying. There's absolutely nothing to suggest they have decided to stay apart from random people popping in here and saying so based on 'a feeling'.
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Exactly. This is a bit too logical and based in reality for the hysterical children on here though.
 
Roboc7 said:
I’ve yet to see anyone come up with how a sensible or viable explanation for how partial investment would work.

There’s no way the Glazers are selling shares and putting the money back in the club. If they kept the money for themselves the club has all the same problems so still needs investment. Also hard to see what any investor gets in that scenario as well as they’ve just bought into all the problems.
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I totally agree, It simply can not work with Avram and Joel using a £2.5bn loan supplied by Elliot’s to buy out their other four siblings. Here’s why ?

1. The loan in current market conditions would be added to club debt making it another internal leveraged buy out, giving the two remaining brothers 69% of the shares with payments on this loan and the original debt with payment at 10% potentially being £100- 200m per year, it’s unsustainable and they, Joel and Avram simply do not have the collateral to get the loan, even if they did by some financial miracle, the new legislation in the UK and PL would immediately target this and veto the ownership.

2. The other 4 siblings want out, they own 44% of the voting shares or nearly 2/3rds, the Qatari bid could simply offer £3bn, eg more than what their other siblings have offered with the promise of a quick and easy transition, thus forcing the other 2 to fold.

3. They believed that the name and brand would give them an easy £6-7bn but made one glaring mistake, under the Glaziers ownership model, they’ve irrevocably damaged the brand beyond recognition, so for once they should do the right thing and sell for £4.5/5bn, it’s far more than they deserve.

4. For of those you thinking we could just go on as we have for the last few years, under the Glaziers. Interests rates have gone up which means the club is paying double what it was originally to service its £500m debt. We have no cash reserves and we have no champions league money in this years accounts. Even if the club finish 3rd in the PL, win a couple of cups, it’s highly conceivable that the turnover this year will probably be less than £600m last year. I would suggest if we are not under new ownership by April Or May the club will have to sell at least 7 or 8 players, revamp their wage structure drastically and look for mostly loan deals in the summer.

5. Even if a hedge fund buy 44% of the club for £2-2.5bn and put their own man alongside Joel and Avram and there is no loan repayment plan but instead the hedge fund invested on the basis that when they sell the club in 10 years they will get double their money back.
What CFO in his right mind is signing that cheque off with Avram and Joel in charge, the shares will plummet and the value of their investment fall with share depreciation.

Can’t see them staying it’s all bluff to try and get another 1/2 billion to 1 billon out of Qatar.
 
TrebleChamp99 said:
He’s not wumming just badly informed.

Second round of bidding is this week.

3bln of debt on top of 1bln currently is not a good deal.

Any lender knows glazers don’t have the cash to keep it going as it stands and therefore are desperate if they want to stay.

Most likely scenario - selling.

Market share ranking based on rumours of them staying shows public opinion and represents a risk to lending - terrible terms.

Darcy is not personally hiring anyone to sell United, she is a minority shareholder. Avram and Joel are majority.

Mike Keegan who has been on the ball suggests second round of bidding will open , if so, no pre arranged deal has been made.

Ultimately read between the lines.

Media game/ situation to up the bids.
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Agree with everything except that he is not a WUM. He has been trying to do that for a few posts and pushing through a narrative as if he has some information that others are not privy to.
 
red thru&thru said:
I'd say that is a conservative figure but let's go with that...

What I wanted to know from the poster I replied to, if Elliott buy out the four siblings for £2.3bn, are Elliott a partners for Joel and Avram, or have they borrowed them the money? And I read interest rates would be of up to 15% on the borrowing.

So if they borrow the money, how are they going to pay it back? The club is already making a loss of around £2m a week. How will they fund the squad development? We just about afforded loans in January.

If Elliott are partners, what are they getting back for their money? The B class shares sold turn to A class shares, which only hold 1/10 voting rights of the B class, which Avram and Joel hold. So more likely than not, Joel and Avram still call the shots. However, even if they don't, where does the extra funding come from to reinvest into the squad, stadium, Carrington, etc.

However, the poster keeps avoiding my question when asked.
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Elliot's angle is the next sale after this one - if they were to be successful. Loan the glazers the money against assets like the ground and land and skim off their percentage of the week to week takings until the Glazers runout of cash. Then if returns start to dip they tell the glazers to pay up in x days - Glazers forced to sell or go into receivership. Elliot get their initial investment back, an income while in place and then a percentage of the new sale - under less favourable terms than we currently have.

I'm hoping the big push from the club about the cup success - bringing Fergie, David Gill and Avram down to the dressing room etc is the sort of window dressing a company does when a notable figure like the glazers are going. I'm sure we would have had dressing room scenes etc as you would when winning any trophy, but the scenes with the whole board meeting Erik were a bit unusual. Maybe that's just Erik's way - we saw him get all the back office staff to appear with the trophy, and there are reports of a much better atmosphere amongst the staff in general.

I think there will be one final "gesture" from the Glazers - namely that they will "pay off" the debt, once they have secured the extra funds from the Qatari bid in order to do that. They can dress up the idea that they are leaving the club debt free, and with trophies in the cabinet and I think some of the "soft soap" we saw from the club towards the Glazers is part of that process of letting them leave with dignity, if not exactly honour!
 
Conspiracy theory:

When the initial sale was announced the share price rocketed (okay on the B shares but still it inflated the value) great for the Glazers, the share price has now plummeted due to rumours of the Glazer's potentially staying and a report in the financial times valuing Utd at around 1.5bn

Rather than these reports of the Glazers staying being leaked by themselves in order to force Ratcliffe/Qatar to up their bids, it would make more sense if the reports had originated from one of the buyers, in order to squeeze the Glazers into selling and at a price lower than their original estimate???
 
buchansleftleg said:
I think there will be one final "gesture" from the Glazers - namely that they will "pay off" the debt, once they have secured the extra funds from the Qatari bid in order to do that. They can dress up the idea that they are leaving the club debt free, and with trophies in the cabinet and I think some of the "soft soap" we saw from the club towards the Glazers is part of that process of letting them leave with dignity, if not exactly honour!
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They won't pay it off with Qatar, you look at the statement put out by the Qatar bid a few weeks ago. They promised debt free and investment.So i don't think Glazers would give up nearlly a £1 billion of their gains as good will when one of the bidders already promised to clear that debt.
 
Zed 101 said:
Conspiracy theory:

When the initial sale was announced the share price rocketed (okay on the B shares but still it inflated the value) great for the Glazers, the share price has now plummeted due to rumours of the Glazer's potentially staying and a report in the financial times valuing Utd at around 1.5bn

Rather than these reports of the Glazers staying being leaked by themselves in order to force Ratcliffe/Qatar to up their bids, it would make more sense if the reports had originated from one of the buyers, in order to squeeze the Glazers into selling and at a price lower than their original estimate???
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It's not a conspiracy, it's quite obvious that Glazers or those around them are briefing that Joel and Avram want to stay, that bids are to low.. Then Avram turning up at Wembley... It's all bluster to try and get as much money from any bidders as possible.
 
Some of the posts that people pop in here with are embarrassing. This is not a transfer saga and the share price is not driven by a feeling or a random article in the fecking FT.

There's mostly macro developments (inflation expectations keep changing every other day with conflicting data), there's speculators who buy the rumour and sell the news and finally there's developments around the club.

The reason the price went up in the first place is just the market pricing in the Qatar bid which gave the club a certain value someone was willing to pay.

So please stop this 'feeling' nonsense or at least preface your post with some doomer qualification, so we know it's just what you felt when you woke up today.
 
buchansleftleg said:
Elliot's angle is the next sale after this one - if they were to be successful. Loan the glazers the money against assets like the ground and land and skim off their percentage of the week to week takings until the Glazers runout of cash. Then if returns start to dip they tell the glazers to pay up in x days - Glazers forced to sell or go into receivership. Elliot get their initial investment back, an income while in place and then a percentage of the new sale - under less favourable terms than we currently have.
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So, what you're saying is, the Glazers would have to give up a percentage of their equity in the club, for the investment from Elliott?
 
Report on Sky with the Sports Commercial Advisor and Melissa Reddy is a bit scary. Thinking Glazers might hold on.
 
Loon said:
Report on Sky with the Sports Commercial Advisor and Melissa Reddy is a bit scary. Thinking Glazers might hold on.
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It's by design, a Glazer brief to make the would be buyers shit themselves
 
Woziak said:
I totally agree, It simply can not work with Avram and Joel using a £2.5bn loan supplied by Elliot’s to buy out their other four siblings. Here’s why ?

1. The loan in current market conditions would be added to club debt making it another internal leveraged buy out, giving the two remaining brothers 69% of the shares with payments on this loan and the original debt with payment at 10% potentially being £100- 200m per year, it’s unsustainable and they, Joel and Avram simply do not have the collateral to get the loan, even if they did by some financial miracle, the new legislation in the UK and PL would immediately target this and veto the ownership.

2. The other 4 siblings want out, they own 44% of the voting shares or nearly 2/3rds, the Qatari bid could simply offer £3bn, eg more than what their other siblings have offered with the promise of a quick and easy transition, thus forcing the other 2 to fold.

3. They believed that the name and brand would give them an easy £6-7bn but made one glaring mistake, under the Glaziers ownership model, they’ve irrevocably damaged the brand beyond recognition, so for once they should do the right thing and sell for £4.5/5bn, it’s far more than they deserve.

4. For of those you thinking we could just go on as we have for the last few years, under the Glaziers. Interests rates have gone up which means the club is paying double what it was originally to service its £500m debt. We have no cash reserves and we have no champions league money in this years accounts. Even if the club finish 3rd in the PL, win a couple of cups, it’s highly conceivable that the turnover this year will probably be less than £600m last year. I would suggest if we are not under new ownership by April Or May the club will have to sell at least 7 or 8 players, revamp their wage structure drastically and look for mostly loan deals in the summer.

5. Even if a hedge fund buy 44% of the club for £2-2.5bn and put their own man alongside Joel and Avram and there is no loan repayment plan but instead the hedge fund invested on the basis that when they sell the club in 10 years they will get double their money back.
What CFO in his right mind is signing that cheque off with Avram and Joel in charge, the shares will plummet and the value of their investment fall with share depreciation.

Can’t see them staying it’s all bluff to try and get another 1/2 billion to 1 billon out of Qatar.
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You make sound points and I think they have been very well briefed this by their financial advisors.

At the minute I think it’s a front.
 
Compton22 said:
Doesn't sound like they want to stay to me
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Literally begging for more money and all hiding behind 'Joel and Avram are still attached' but the facade is wearing thin so they are just coming out with it.
 
AneRu said:
Literally begging for more money and all hiding behind 'Joel and Avram are still attached' but the facade is wearing thin so they are just coming out with it.
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Yeah, it's blatant now. "We want out, but your first offers aren't good enough. Better dig deeper into your pockets or we might stay"
 
Compton22 said:
It's by design, a Glazer brief to make the would be buyers shit themselves
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I hope it is brinkmanship. After all, the Glazers are businessmen and want the most so it would be expected they would “haggle.”

I could see Ratcliffe walking away (again), but I have a feeling Qatar will not want to lose face and will be the only bidders left.

Frying pan to fire…
 
Just a thought, if they genuinely wanted to stay and were not for sale, wouldn't they simply announce it in the same way that John Henry and FSG have?
 
Compton22 said:
Just a thought, if they genuinely wanted to stay and were not for sale, wouldn't they simply announce it in the same way that John Henry and FSG have?
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I would have thought so. I’m willing to bet the gobby bidders will put their own spin on it too.
 
Loon said:
I hope it is brinkmanship. After all, the Glazers are businessmen and want the most so it would be expected they would “haggle.”

I could see Ratcliffe walking away (again), but I have a feeling Qatar will not want to lose face and will be the only bidders left.

Frying pan to fire…
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Plus, I think they're genuinely disappointed that they haven't attracted more interest as this would have instigated a "bidding war". Because there are so few buyers, they have to artificially drive the price up themselves by convincing the markets they might want to stay after all.
 
Tom Van Persie said:




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And it's "potential" that will never be realized under Glazer ownership simply because they wouldn't put in the immediate funds to achieve this.

Utd's possible value would surely be predicated by serious facility development and continued on-field success. This in turn would require a level of sustained spending we've not really seen under the Glazers. We've had big windows, but they're often followed by periods of lesser expenditure (eg 18/19 & 20/21). Beneath all this is a time-frame for football planning we've never seen since the Glazers took over the club. They will also need to back their manager's second season to a level we've never seen since Fergie left.

Basically, they need to just feck off and realize they have no right owning Utd, and simply don't have the capital to make us debt free/develop to the level required.
 
groovyalbert said:
And it's "potential" that will never be realized under Glazer ownership simply because they wouldn't put in the immediate funds to achieve this.

Utd's possible value would surely be predicated by serious facility development and continued on-field success. This in turn would require a level of sustained spending we've not really seen under the Glazers. We've had big windows, but they're often followed by periods of lesser expenditure (eg 18/19 & 20/21). Beneath all this is a time-frame for football planning we've never seen since the Glazers took over the club. They will also need to back their manager's second season to a level we've never seen since Fergie left.

Basically, they need to just feck off and realize they have no right owning Utd, and simply don't have the capital to make us debt free/develop to the level required.
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The worst thing about them staying is that they would have to add even further debt onto the club to finance the renovations in the first place which, considering they have opened up an overdraft on the clubs bank account and having saddled the club already with the debt of the clubs purchase, is economically illiterate.
 
Was hoping Avram would get the message about being completely unwelcome on Sunday but as kind of expected it was ignored.
 
sglowrider said:
Feelings or intuition?
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Based on bullshit. They have no clue what’s being said in a multi billion pound deal. There’s something like two bidding rounds left, of course the first will be low and everybody knows it isn’t the real offer.
 
Why are some people convinced they are staying ? This is normal business practice, what company accepts the first bid ? I’d say very few. The glazers want £6 billion but they’ll probably get £5-5.5billion and be happy, it’s happening guys no need to worry just yet.
 
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