Club Sale | It’s done!

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romufc said:
This is why I think politics needs to be taken out of this. There are so many things that go on in countries, no one is a saint.

Like you said, the UK is doing so much with Qatar in trade and infrastructure, so we cannot involve politics with this.

Every country has their own laws, yes some may not agree with them, but they will have to follow the laws and regulations of the country they are investing in anyway.
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It is political though, it is not ‘made’ political or infused with politics. A representative of the ruling family of a dictatorship wants to control and use Man United for political purposes. This is a pretty clearcut fact, and not something you or I can ‘take out of it’.

We can try to forget it, try to avoid seeing it or try to minimize, twist or deceive ourselves about it. What the Al Thani’s wants to do with the club will still remain what we call political, however, won’t it? So how to relate to that fact?
 
Rood said:
Why? What exactly do you think is going to happen if Sheikh Jassim takes over?

I have no idea what your first paragraph of waffle has to do with the logic (or lack thereof) of prefering relegation and bankrupty on the club. Although I do agree that a club is more than winning and trophies, in fact what MUFC represents goes far beyond any owner which is why I find such extreme reaction to any possible owner utterly bizzare.
It's not like the current US owners are some kind of bastions of the heritage of Manchester United - Malcolm Glazer never once visited Manchester in his whole life, yet you think they are preferable?
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Why would you think I was interested in discussing this with you? I know you disagree, I know neither of us are going to change our minds. I responded to your absolutely moronic charge that I'm not a fan, that's it.
 
Raven said:
This thread has been a good indicator of where people's priorities lie and also a good indicator of why we're so fecked as a society.

"Yeah, sure, they killed a few (thousand) guys, use slave labour, abuse the LGBT community, abuse women and abuse the environment but none of that matters because I want my football team to be the richest football team."
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And did all the morally outraged boycott the World Cup? Or were they in fact cheering on England in the quarter final despite their principals?
 
RORY65 said:
How are they being suppressed? Middle Eastern states already own City, Newcastle and PSG while Qatar just hosted the World Cup. You also ignore that they if they make these improvements you're talking about then they would never buy United, the reason they can do it is because they're an undemocratic state where the royals can do as they like including spending money that could be used to pay migrant workers, improve their working conditions or make general developments to the state on buying a football team on another continent.

Being gay in Qatar is currently a criminal offence, that changed in the UK 56 years ago (plus nobody on here wants the UK government or royal family to buy us) so the idea that attitudes will change dramatically in the coming years is optimistic. Do you think imprisoning people for being gay is "the right way"? I want Qatar to develop while retaining some of their own values but states generally shouldn't be buying football clubs and a club as historic and as big as United shouldn't be desperate to become a political tool.
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We should encourage change rather than say, you believe in this so I cant deal with you. I am not happy for a state to own football clubs. Right now it looks like we have 3 options. Stick with Glazers, Qatar or INEOS correct?

So, you cannot also be hypocritical either. Right, so why are we happy with Addidas sponsorship and them making our football shirts when they are spending that money on advertising, sponsorships etc.. when they could be paying their workers in Asia and improving their working conditions?

I would like to see the same energy for everything.
 
NotThatSoph said:
Why would you think I was interested in discussing this with you? I know you disagree, I know neither of us are going to change our minds. I responded to your absolutely moronic charge that I'm not a fan, that's it.
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This is a discussion forum in case you hadn't noticed - if you are going to make extreme and ridiculous statements then be prepared to be questioned on it

Anyone who thinks bankruptcy and relegation are a preferable option is not a Manchester United fan in my eyes, as it's quite obvious that is not in the interests of the club on any level
 
I think we all need to respect each other’s opinions and views and just let the Qatari’s in. Bring back the good times.
 
Grande said:
It is political though, it is not ‘made’ political or infused with politics. A representative of the ruling family of a dictatorship wants to control and use Man United for political purposes. This is a pretty clearcut fact, and not something you or I can ‘take out of it’.

We can try to forget it, try to avoid seeing it or try to minimize, twist or deceive ourselves about it. What the Al Thani’s wants to do with the club will still remain what we call political, however, won’t it? So how to relate to that fact?
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Let me ask you a question? What political gain have the City owners got from owning Man City?

If you are unaware, Qatar and UK have signed up to 45bn deal for investment and all sorts, how is purchasing Manutd helping them politically when they are already there?
 
Rood said:
This is a discussion forum in case you hadn't noticed - if you are going to make extreme and ridiculous statements then be prepared to be questioned on it

Anyone who thinks bankruptcy and relegation are a preferable option is not a Manchester United fan in my eyes, as it's quite obvious that is not in the interests of the club on any level
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Alright, I'm blocking you now so we don't repeat this in the future.
 
Wednesday at Stoke said:
His daddy is apparently the richest man in Qatar and the right hand man for the previous Emir. Its fair to assume that whatever money he is worth, he's going to be able to afford to spend a lot more when he borrows against his inheritance.
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Where have you seen that HBJ is the richest man in Qatar? I would be very sceptical about that.

edit - Forbes list him as a worth of 1.3b dollars. I’d say he’s far from the richest. Very well connected however.
 
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Tarrou said:
well, they control the company obviously.. that's so what

why is it so hard for you to concede such a basic thing?

embarrassing
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The only embarrassing thing is that you don't know basic maths.

Let me make it clear for you; 16 is a lot smaller than 84. alright?
 
Nou_Camp99 said:
The business man in question is named Al Thani (the same name as the Royal family of Qatar)

Said business man apparently has a worth of 1.2bn dollars too. That's about a 5th of what the Glazers are asking for and that's assuming he would be willing to put in every single last penny he has in the world too.

Please do some research.
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Why do the research when there seems to be experts on the subject posting here already?
 
stepic said:
who said that exactly?
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I think it was a parody of this gem yesterday

desirere said:
Who cares who owns us, be feking real, most of clubs are owned by the local mobster. But since he’s a local and not some foreign unknown entity, thats fine, he just killed a few people for legit reasons.
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Which in itself was probably a really good piss take :lol:
 
There is nothing working class about top level premier league football anymore, someone has to say it.

Qatar or not they were shoved to the side well before any of this let’s be honest instead of projecting whose the closest to a moral Angel.
 
Plant0x84 said:
Where have you seen that HBJ is the richest man in Qatar? I would be very sceptical about that.

edit - Forbes list him as a worth of 1.3b dollars. I’d say he’s far from the richest. Very well connected however.
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Has anyone figured out what the source of the money is in the Qatari bid given that the son clearly isn't remotely wealthy enough on his own to buy United and yet he rather flamboyantly boasts it will buy the club outright and invest in new stadium infrastructure. And yet there's little to no credible information on who is behind the so called Nine Two Foundation.
 
romufc said:
There is one thing saying the countries laws and human rights are outdated and there is another thing making things up.

I dont know why people love making things up.

In respects to LGBTQ+, I might be be wrong but werent gay marriages only just legalised in UK in 2014? I am pretty certain you will see an improvement in this in ME in the coming years.

Why is it that we cannot allow countries to grow and change? Why do we need to supress them?

Alot of countries have their own laws and beliefs, why do people in the West think their way is the right way all the time?
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You did make some good points, but generally speaking homophobia is universally the wrong way no matter what any written law says. It’s not something that we should accept under the guise of “cultural differences”.
 
7even said:
I will argue with Ineos 2021 (latest) anual report as refrence that Ratcliffe's bid for MU is directly bad. I will also argue that Ineos could potentially be a similar or worse owner then the Glazers from a strictly finacial standpoint.

The reported cost to buy MU is at minimum 4,5 billion. To that MU have a debt of nearly 1 billion including transfer costs and then the cost of a renovated Old Trafford or building a new stadium of at least 1 billion. A total liability for the new owner of 6,5 billion pounds is what it takes to buy MU and fulfill all promises inside their written statement.

If we look at Ineos they have a cash reserve of approxematley 2 billion, give and take.

Their anual net profit from the last couple of years fluctuate between approxemetley 400 millions up to 1,5 billion. Let say their avarage net profit is somewhere in between those numbers. That means that the interest cost of owning MU would wipe out between 50-75% of their net profit.

As it stand Ineos needs to fund a purchase of MU with loans from "WallStreet-investors". (their own words) From reading Ineos latest anual report I assume they have to loan approxemetley 90-95% of the purchase in case they don't find other co investors. With a total loan of close to 5,5 billion with an assumed intrest rate close to 7-10% we talk about anual costs of 4-500 millions/year. I asume they will let United continue paying for their existing loans of nearly 1 billion and that means out financial situation would be similar as the Glazers owned us , depending on if they taking out dividens or not.

All numbers gives indications that Ineos would be an bad owner for MU, similar to the Glazers. The numbers speaks for itself.

https://www.ineos.com/globalassets/...-reports/ineos-quattro-2021-annual-report.pdf
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@Regulus Arcturus Black what do you make of this? Do you believe that Ineos can afford to buy United at the price quoted?
 
Raoul said:
Has anyone figured out what the source of the money is in the Qatari bid given that the son clearly isn't remotely wealthy enough on his own to buy United and yet he rather flamboyantly boasts it will buy the club outright and invest in new stadium infrastructure. And yet there's little to no credible information on who is behind the so called Nine Two Foundation.
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This is what is most confusing about people insisting it's not a state bid but still supporting it. How can a guy who isn't wealthy enough bidding through a company that doesn't exist be the best option?
 
Raoul said:
Has anyone figured out what the source of the money is in the Qatari bid given that the son clearly isn't remotely wealthy enough on his own to buy United and yet he rather flamboyantly boasts it will buy the club outright and invest in new stadium infrastructure. And yet there's little to no credible information on who is behind the so called Nine Two Foundation.
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When Chelsea was up for sale there was a Saudi consortium that was boasting they would bring a bid that would be bigger than others. Reine required all bidders to turn over financial information to show where the money was coming from and they refused to share their financials. I think when it gets to this stage, it will be known if they have the money to make it happen.
 
UDontMessWith24 said:
You did make some good points, but generally speaking homophobia is universally the wrong way no matter what any written law says. It’s not something that we should accept under the guise of “cultural differences”.
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Well said. Gotta give you some credit for this.

AdventurousDapperGreatdane-size_restricted.gif
 
Bosws87 said:
There is nothing working class about top level premier league football anymore, someone has to say it.

Qatar or not they were shoved to the side well before any of this let’s be honest instead of projecting whose the closest to a moral Angel.
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I remember paying a quid to watch from the stands.
 
Raoul said:
Has anyone figured out what the source of the money is in the Qatari bid given that the son clearly isn't remotely wealthy enough on his own to buy United and yet he rather flamboyantly boasts it will buy the club outright and invest in new stadium infrastructure. And yet there's little to no credible information on who is behind the so called Nine Two Foundation.
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QIA, QIB and QIC
 
RORY65 said:
This is what is most confusing about people insisting it's not a state bid but still supporting it. How can a guy who isn't wealthy enough bidding through a company that doesn't exist be the best option?
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It seems like a poor attempt at concealing the obvious, which is that this is little more than a state backed attempt to buy United.
 
pocco said:
SJR was the dream owner only a few months ago. Fans were holding banners with his face on.

What this is, is fans seeing a golden ticket to buy our way to the top be debt free and able to spend our own money. To some, their lives and happiness seem to rely on United being successful, so I understand why they are crack-fiend desperate for this fix.
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Better and truer.
 
Just a small thing but I looked back on the Raine Chelsea sale timeline

I know their sale is different to ours for many reasons, but their 'soft deadline' was also a Friday evening and then Raine Group announced a shortlist of 3 bidders the following Friday.

So if they do the same with us, they might release a shortlist tomorrow. But again, I know it's different and not as rushed for us (as far as we know)
 
tomaldinho1 said:
QIA, QIB and QIC
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I found this bit interesting....

https://qz.com/qatar-bid-manchester-united-glazer-jim-ratcliffe-ineos-1850136144
In a statement confirming the bid, the sheik said the funds would come from the Nine Two Foundation, an entity of which there is little public record. But his wealth is tied to the QIB, which is, in turn, 50% owned by the Qatari Investment Authority, the investment branch of Qatar’s sovereign wealth fund. The QIB chairman is the son of Hamad bin Khalifa Al Thani, the powerful former emir of Qatar who was also a former head of the country’s sovereign wealth fund. Sheik Jassim’s brother, Sheikh Tamim bin Hamad Al Thani, is the current emir of Qatar.
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Bosws87 said:
There is nothing working class about top level premier league football anymore, someone has to say it.

Qatar or not they were shoved to the side well before any of this let’s be honest instead of projecting whose the closest to a moral Angel.
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United under the Glazers sure wasn't anymore. For years the fans buying tickets and merch financed a multi-billionaire family with that. Under the Qataris the money would at least stay in the club.
 
Raoul said:
Wow...terrible journalism in that case, which is odd given that they are usually reliable.
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Yeah that is poor, there are enough connections with the state but those aren't accurate. I guess they do emphasise how little information there is about the guy bidding, it's mad that even the people close to the bid couldn't confirm his age or whether he's married.
 
NotThatSoph said:
I'd prefer bankruptcy and relegation above Qatar, easily, which means I also prefer the Glazers above them even though I obviously don't want them here. There are no good alternatives, but I'm sure we could end up with someone better than the Glazers if we're "lucky".
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Sorry, but no true fan would ever want their club to go into bankruptcy.
 
Raoul said:
Has anyone figured out what the source of the money is in the Qatari bid given that the son clearly isn't remotely wealthy enough on his own to buy United and yet he rather flamboyantly boasts it will buy the club outright and invest in new stadium infrastructure. And yet there's little to no credible information on who is behind the so called Nine Two Foundation.
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Raoul said:
It seems like a poor attempt at concealing the obvious, which is that this is little more than a state backed attempt to buy United.
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Yahtzee! We have a winner! You answered your own question. ;)
Given the figures attributed to Sheik Jassim and his Dad (HBJ) even between them they don’t have enough to fund the purchase - let alone the infrastructure improvements. The bid is absolutely a state buyout distanced just enough to get around dual ownership rules.
 
Raven said:
This thread has been a good indicator of where people's priorities lie and also a good indicator of why we're so fecked as a society.

"Yeah, sure, they killed a few (thousand) guys, use slave labour, abuse the LGBT community, abuse women and abuse the environment but none of that matters because I want my football team to be the richest football team."
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I feel like every few pages there is a weird post like this where clearly no one has said this but it's some sort of veiled accusation at others. It derails the thread until it slowly gets back to a discussion until someone else posts

"Why don't you just admit you want gay people to die" and we start again. I find it pretty silly
 
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