Club Sale | It’s done!

[owlo]

I love how with SJR everyone is like "we simply don't know" but with Qatar its "get your head out the sand" the money is 100% coming from the state.

Not only that, but the state will control it. I support a Qatari bid over a SJR one, but not admitting these things is simply denying reality for your own justification.

 

[BarstoolProphet]

well damn I didn’t know that, that’s interesting.
My question remains though - what would then happen after he owns us? If this guy is just a prop, how do the actual decisions get made? And what would owning us achieve that owning other property in the UK & elsewhere not achieve?



Is it impossible that this guy has agency to buy United on his own accord and not linked to the Qatar government?

I wouldn't say impossible, solely on the basis of that it's extremely hard to find info on the inner goings of the hierarchy in Qatar, even from locally-based media, but most likely the Emir himself has been involved. It certainly benefits them officially that the rumours in Western media that the Emir and Sheikh Jassim's branch doesn't get along. Probably the only non-Qataris that knows is UAE (inside hacker joke from the ME).

Owning Manchester United would place Qatar permanently on the map. In the short-term they are not in a dire need of diversifying their economy, but that is the plan for the future. They have seen how Dubai has managed to transition itself from dependance on O&G to tourism and finance and most likely wants to head in that direction. Owning real estate doesn't really give them any PR on that front other than establishing ties with governmental decision makers.

 

[owlo]

So many on here willing to believe that this isn’t state ownership.

I think it's just a personal state of how they come to terms with accepting it. Some prefer eyes wide open, others prefer to discombulate and accept the bids obfuscation. Everybody knows deep down what it is.

 

[romufc]

Not only that, but the state will control it. I support a Qatari bid over a SJR one, but not admitting these things is simply denying reality for your own justification.

Do I think the state will control the club? No.

Do I think the money will come from the state? yes.

 

[stevoc]

People want to have their cake and eat it too. They want the funds of the Qatar state while also claiming it has nothing to do with the Qatar state.

Bingo, ultimately almost everyone knows where the money will be coming from.

 

[fezzerUTD]

Woodward was the architect of the deal. He's an accountant by trade.

I maybe didn’t read the thread properly for you to reply that. No worries.

 

[Real Name]

So many on here willing to believe that this isn’t state ownership.

What individual has accumulated the sort of wealth needed to buy United, rebuild the stadium and invest in the manner being talked about?

Can we just be honest with ourselves and acknowledge that the bid is by the Qatari state no matter how it is dressed up?

We are sounding more and more like City fans every time I read this thread.

Most pro Qatar posters wont admit that, they'll just use all the mental gymnastics available to portray it like it isn't.

 

[ROFLUTION]

So many on here willing to believe that this isn’t state ownership.

What individual has accumulated the sort of wealth needed to buy United, rebuild the stadium and invest in the manner being talked about?

Can we just be honest with ourselves and acknowledge that the bid is by the Qatari state no matter how it is dressed up?

We are sounding more and more like City fans every time I read this thread.

It’s either plain stupidity or people justifying being owned by a state.

 

[Member 101269]

So many on here willing to believe that this isn’t state ownership.

What individual has accumulated the sort of wealth needed to buy United, rebuild the stadium and invest in the manner being talked about?

Can we just be honest with ourselves and acknowledge that the bid is by the Qatari state no matter how it is dressed up?

We are sounding more and more like City fans every time I read this thread.

The hasn't the money therefore it must he, without knowing what money he has argument and zero evidence money is coming from the state..

 

[stevoc]

To be fair to them, retail complexes going down aren't exactly their fault. I can visit the trafford centre in peace these days; when they inherited it the place was packed.

True but other than running United into the ground they don't seem to have started any new successful business ventures over the last 2 decades.

 

[Tincanalley]

Great post. You are absolutely spot on. This sale isn’t just about the future of our club, but because we are the biggest it’s about shaping the future of football in the UK and probably Europe too.

@Bert_ and yourself are right, Mr Plant. Your name makes me think of Ronnie O Sullivan playing for Led Zep. With Little Shop of Horrors in the background

 

[westmeath]

The hasn't the money therefore it must he, without knowing what money he has argument and zero evidence money is coming from the state..

ah yeah, maybe he won the euro millions, you go ahead and believe that if it makes it easier for you to swallow this deal.

 

[owlo]

I wouldn't say impossible, solely on the basis of that it's extremely hard to find info on the inner goings of the hierarchy in Qatar, even from locally-based media, but most likely the Emir himself has been involved. It certainly benefits them officially the rumours in Western media that the Emir and Sheikh Jassim's branch doesn't get along. Probably the only non-Qataris that knows is UAE (inside hacker joke from the ME).

They are the same al Thani family. When Tamim came to power, he had to remove HBJ to consolidate power. There's no personal animosity or hatred there. Jassims dad still goes on holidays with Tamims dad constantly (the former emir). There was an assertion of power/dominance, but no effort to exile or humiliate. Honour is everything, and Tamim left it intact.

True but other than running United into the ground they don't seem to have started any new successful business ventures over the last 2 decades.

True. They probably got brought up in the family business, got a golden egg in the club, and got lazy/complacent living the lifestyle and not really caring when it went a bit bad. Not everybody has that drive.

 

[Tincanalley]

I hope when they deliver the bid to the Glazers they at least have a bit of class and use M&S bags this time.

True. Why don’t they get really classy and sponsor United instead, say for their national Airline?

 

[romufc]

Well maybe because we simply do know where the Qatar bid comes from, and we dont have transparency about SJR’s bid.

We simply do not know where SJR is getting the 4.5bn from either. They said no new debt will be on the club.

Al Thani has specifically said, all debt will be cleared.

 

[villain]

I'll preface this as 'Hypothetically' so I don't upset anyone, seeing as we're now pretending this isn't a state backed bid. But hypothetically if United are owned by the Qatari state then they will likely just put a team in charge and it will operate fairly independently much like PSG. I doubt the Emir or whoever would be hands in the day to day running.

As to what owning United would achieve, well it's an investment in itself I imagine it might also open doors in terms of property development in Manchester. I remember reading recently that Liverpool and as a result Salford got Freeport status from the government. So who knows if that's tied in somehow. The guys behind this bid may well be United fans but the takeover will have other aims as well no doubt.

If it’s an investment why aren’t they taking out profits? And why would they need to own a club in Manchester to open doors in Manchester property, when they’re already got billions invested in property in London - and likely already have connections in that industry anyway.
It just seems like everyone is making hypothetical situations without any evidence to back it up on both sides.

Is it possible that Fredo buys a grand hotel casino in Las Vegas on his own accord and not linked to Don Corleone?

Your hypothetical implies that any wealthy Qatari individual is just a prop of the State.

If it’s all his private wealth then it’s a incredibly worrying deal.

The guy is claiming massive changes at United, and the best answer we’ve got(Apart from him as a proxy for state ownership)is that he might be hiding billions and that his dad is loaded.

Just because his wealth is unknown doesn’t mean he’s hiding it - those are two different things

 

[Prodigal7]

Lets look at this logically and objectively then. It is a distinct possibility that the money could come from the Qatari state via gifted money transfers, however, Jassim's father is a very wealthy man having sold a lot of Qatar airways shares. The money could also come from him which is not the state (his wealth is grossly under reported). Either way, gifted wealth gives no equity in any purchase, i.e. legally the Qatari state would have no rights with regards to decision making at the club and any influence they have would be based purely on personal relationships, which are loose to begin with. It would be naïve to say they would have no influence, but having some influence is very different to being state owned.

 

[alanjohnson]

all the Qatari guy needs to do is sell his garden shed to the State for £20b.
If real madrid got away with it, so can he.

 

[Tincanalley]

This is getting pathetic now. So the rich of America don’t get subsidies and tax breaks?

I had muted Miguel from 5 years ago because of the amount of transfer predications he got horribly wrong! How did he become the chief writer for independent?!

In this matter, MD is of course right. And you know that, too. Don’t treat us like children.

 

[owlo]

Do I think the state will control the club? No.

Do I think the money will come from the state? yes.

Ultimately, if the Emir says jump, the club owners will jump. They may not be involved in the day to day minutae, but our titular owner will always follow instructions when they come.

 

[Tincanalley]

That's Boehly's Chelsea!

True….

 

[ROFLUTION]

I wonder where Cantona is in all this.

His opinion and concern would be nice to have publicly out there before the Glazers decide.

Also the Class of 92 should speak up more. Whether they are pro or against Qatar, they’re all just sitting there - but they are all pundits, so it seems weird for them to not voice any strong opinions.

 

[villain]

I wouldn't say impossible, solely on the basis of that it's extremely hard to find info on the inner goings of the hierarchy in Qatar, even from locally-based media, but most likely the Emir himself has been involved. It certainly benefits them officially that the rumours in Western media that the Emir and Sheikh Jassim's branch doesn't get along. Probably the only non-Qataris that knows is UAE (inside hacker joke from the ME).

Owning Manchester United would place Qatar permanently on the map. In the short-term they are not in a dire need of diversifying their economy, but that is the plan for the future. They have seen how Dubai has managed to transition itself from dependance on O&G to tourism and finance and most likely wants to head in that direction. Owning real estate doesn't really give them any PR on that front other than establishing ties with governmental decision makers.

The tourism angle I can get behind

 

[Member 101269]

ah yeah, maybe he won the euro millions, you go ahead and believe that if it makes it easier for you to swallow this deal.

Like many here I'm fact based, the harvey the rabbit arguments aren't

 

[Zed 101]

Whilst I appreciate the tweets from experts in their fields lets just cut the BS

The Qatar bid is state funded and will be state owned, any appearance that it is not will be manufactured... we know it, UEFA knows it, the FA and Premier league know it... but it all comes down to what can be documented, the appearance of propriety.

In the same way that everybody knows that City have flagrantly breached FFP for years, and not even subtly, but it comes down to what a lawyer can evidence, this has very little to do with the truth.

It will be state funded but not state owned. Sheikh Jassim will likely be influenced by the Qatari state but that's still a significant difference to being state owned.

You miss the point and are with respect are deluded to think this way, it will not be "state owned" but it will be state owned the difference is as thin as the paper any deal will be written on, anyone who actually believes that this is not all being orchestrated by the Emir and if successful will be in the hands of the Emir well needs to remove their rose tinted glasses and smell as much coffee as it is humanly possible to do, this Jassim guy is just a puppet, a face for the bid absolutely bonkers to believe that there is any degree of separation other than the appearance of one to get the bid through


By the way I have some magic beans if you are interested in buying them

 

[TMDaines]

Really good Talk of the Devils podcast this week, reflecting on the current divides in the so-called “fanbase”.

 

[Mickeza]

Really good Talk of the Devils podcast this week, reflecting on the current divides in the so-called “fanbase”.

Why is it a so-called “fanbase”?

 

[Plant0x84]

It’s all we have to go on. Same way you can say Jim is the only answer when all you have go on is the very same puff piece.
What criticism has Jim received? Are you saying he’s been under the spotlight more than Qatar?!

I’m categorically not saying Jim is the only answer. He is my preferred option at this point, simply because I don’t know how being state owned would sit with me. As we hear more about other bids that may change.

You know full well that Sir Jim has been trashed here and on social. He’s not got the cash, he a chancer, a bluffer, glazers mk2 etc…. It’s ridiculous and vitriolic stuff that doesn’t further the conversation. We should be measured in how we assess which bid to support as a fan base. At this point it’s Mbappe and a shiny new stadium FC vs no to sportwashing FC. It doesn’t feel like a serious discussion to be honest.

 

[Plant0x84]

I love how with SJR everyone is like "we simply don't know" but with Qatar its "get your head out the sand" the money is 100% coming from the state.

Does his title ‘sheik’ not tell you anything?

 

[HarryP]

So many on here willing to believe that this isn’t state ownership.

What individual has accumulated the sort of wealth needed to buy United, rebuild the stadium and invest in the manner being talked about?

Can we just be honest with ourselves and acknowledge that the bid is by the Qatari state no matter how it is dressed up?

We are sounding more and more like City fans every time I read this thread.

Well his father had to resign from his political posts several years ago because it was considered he had too much private wealth and it was a threat to the Emir. This was a genuine and internal distancing from him and the Qatar state, not a guise to satisfy international rules.

He doesn't have direct input into the running of the Qatari state. I'm sure he has influence - rich people have influence over how the UK state is run too. But it's very difficult and perhaps unfair to label him and his son as Bona fide puppets for the Qatari state.

 

[BarstoolProphet]

I wonder where Cantona is in all this.

His opinion and concern would be nice to have publicly out there before the Glazers decide.

Also the Class of 92 should speak up more. Whether they are pro or against Qatar, they’re all just sitting there - but they are all pundits, so it seems weird for them to not voice any strong opinions.

Cantona doesn't really need to say anything more, since we all know his stance. He spoke out against the World Cup and Beckham's role and didn't really say anything directly (just something about him probably supporting a Championship club now if he grew up in this period) when he was asked about a month ago about Qatar owning United. Beckham is an ambassador for Qatar and Neville seems to have some sort of business links with the country as well. Considering two of the most prominent members being pro-Qatar probably keeps the other quiet because they surely will benefit from it too.

 

[Sweet Square]

Just because his wealth is unknown doesn’t mean he’s hiding it - those are two different things

If he isn’t state backed(Which tbh he clearly is), then there is currently no evidence he has the funds to achieve the claims he has already. Which should worry people.

The guy having potentially unknown billions is a awful argument for why he should own United.

 

[TMDaines]

Why is it a so-called “fanbase”?

They were reflecting on what exactly a fan or stakeholder in Manchester United is. You’ve got a wide range of people from local, identifiable, long-term season ticket holders to random flags-in-the-name Twitter accounts of completely anonymous people of unknown age and relation to the club. The difference in majority opinions between different demographics of the so-called “fanbase” is vast.

 

[romufc]

Does his title ‘sheik’ not tell you anything?

There is 3000 of them.

 

[owlo]

I’m categorically not saying Jim is the only answer. He is my preferred option at this point, simply because I don’t know how being state owned would sit with me. As we hear more about other bids that may change.

You know full well that Sir Jim has been trashed here and on social. He’s not got the cash, he a chancer, a bluffer, glazers mk2 etc…. It’s ridiculous and vitriolic stuff that doesn’t further the conversation. We should be measured in how we assess which bid to support as a fan base. At this point it’s Mbappe and a shiny new stadium FC vs no to sportwashing FC. It doesn’t feel like a serious discussion to be honest.

How so? If these are peoples feelings, how is it ridiculous? How does it not further the conversation? Assuming you did believe he was a chancer and parasite who would saddle the club with debt, would it change your view on whether to support Qatar over him? Because there are logical and reasonable reasons to think he is both of those things. I don't see how it's 'ridiculous' or 'vitriolic,' any more than 'qatar are a horrible state' (reasonable opinion/true) and 'its state sportswashing (also reasonable/true) are.

 

[adexkola]

If he isn’t state backed(Which tbh he clearly is), then there is currently no evidence he has the funds to achieve the claims he has already. Which should worry people.

The guy having potentially unknown billions is a awful argument for why he should own United.

If the billions are fugaz then it'll come out when it's time to pay the bill.

 

[DownRiver]

In this matter, MD is of course right. And you know that, too. Don’t treat us like children.

Why doesn’t MD do the right thing and resign from the independent since they are both owned by Russian and Saudi Arabia state money?

 

[villain]

If he isn’t state backed(Which tbh he clearly is), then there is currently no evidence he has the funds to achieve the claims he has already. Which should worry people.

The guy having potentially unknown billions is a awful argument for why he should own United.

Billionaires being shady in how they acquire their wealth is nothing new, you of all people know that.

 

[Mickeza]

They were reflecting on what exactly a fan or stakeholder in Manchester United is. You’ve got a wide range of people from local, identifiable, long-term season ticket holders to random flags-in-the-name Twitter accounts of completely anonymous people of unknown age and relation to the club. The difference in majority opinions between different demographics of the so-called “fanbase” is vast.

Interesting - will be giving it a listen tomorrow. It’s a great podcast.

 

[Tincanalley]

I wonder where Cantona is in all this.

His opinion and concern would be nice to have publicly out there before the Glazers decide.

Also the Class of 92 should speak up more. Whether they are pro or against Qatar, they’re all just sitting there - but they are all pundits, so it seems weird for them to not voice any strong opinions.

Nail. On. Head. Lots of fence sitting. Even Caf were reluctant to host poll. That’s cos one one wants to alienate potential future owners. Example: I have a buddy who’s a pro photographer. He has to be everyone’s friend because: access. G Nev needs that kind of access. Yes he’s been brave (late in the game) viz. the Glazers. Expect to hear from him on this in about 10 years.
Cantona I dunno. I love the guy. At least he won’t do a Beckham. Neither will Keane. But yep. Deafening silence, so far.