Maybe stop listening to the voices in your head?
If you all stopped creating fantasies in your heads you might have been able to process this whole situation better.
Club Sale | It’s done!
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Maybe stop listening to the voices in your head?
If you all stopped creating fantasies in your heads you might have been able to process this whole situation better.
Yes its true. The biggest factor will be revenue and if you are not competing at the top you will get less revenue. There is a reason we are currently struggling with debt servicing and have no funds to fix severely out of date infrastructure right now. More than likely the next waves of major funds from TV will be at the European competition level by the way
If this is approved I'm guessing INEOS replace TeamViewer on the shirts?
They really are scum, the Ratcliffe money should be used to clear off the debt before filling their pockets again, what ever they save on interest should then be invested back into the club.
I don't know how any supporter of this club can call them "proper gentlemen" let alone go into business with them.
You honestly believe that? He needs about 8 billion quid for the club, debts and stadium.
Nothing to see here guys INEOS will happily take all our problems away, they’ll even leave the Glazers on board and happily pay their shit off too!
There are so many red flags around this that tge people questioning the future aren't the ones living in fantasy land.
You don't tend to get mega wealth by getting into the habit of paying way over the odds for assets. It isn't a mil or two it's hundreds of millions/billions. They clearly had their upper bound for where it made sense in terms of their objectives - be that as an investment, a sports washing venture and/or whatever else. The Glazers seemingly wanted more than that which is an opinion they're sadly entitled to. But everyone who keeps upping their bid in a one horse race is going to have a point where they stop and exit.
Surely we won't cancel Snapdragon/Qualcomm after agreeing a deal with them? Think you also can't have the owners as sponsors, unless you're City maybe.
No Snapdragon will
Yeah. He’s a bluffer
They can milk the cash cow for a few years longer and then sell up fully when the club is likely worth even more (depending on tv rights deals etc). They're leeches. Any opportunity to stick around and make more money, they'll take it.
What fantasy am I creating? How about you process it all for me as you are obviously up to speed, know more than anyone else and can see how this all plays out.
I'll wait.
Thank you.
Re. the 25% stake giving him 40% weight in board votes: I heard that on a video posted by United Muppetiers yesterday evening. I don't know how much of an authority he is, but he seems to have said some pretty sensible and on-point things in the past week or so and would appear to have a well-placed source in Ineos. As things will stand, the Glazers still have ultimate decision-making power - if they are capable of clubbing together and agreeing, but it would seem they are quite a fractured bunch. Ratcliffe has said nice things publicly about the Glazers, so let's hope he's able to navigate the politics and get people onside. The last thing we need is a power struggle.
You're right that the Glazers could make their own appointments like Mitchell, or Edwards, but we've got nearly two decades of experience that suggests they don't have the nous or desire to make such a decision. I've been talking to friends today and one of them said that we'd have been unstoppable with Qatari money, but that kinda misses the point for me. We've always spent well since Ferguson left, but it's been directionless splurging. I'm quite excited by the idea of getting expert football / sporting executives in place. (As an aside, I see that the Ineos Sport CEO used to be at PSG and Juventus - and his hallmark project was the development of the new Juve stadium and surrounding area - so we are talking about a lot of relevant experience across their institution.)
I understand your concerns in terms of the Glazers potentially moving the goalposts further down the line, but that's where I'm making a leap of faith that Ratcliffe and his people will have the appropriate contractual provisions in place to ensure the eventual full buyout is nothing more than a formality. That said, I'm not expert on corporate M&A, so will defer to the experts when it comes to potential pitfalls.
My preference, like many other fans, would have been a full sale but this is the second-best option - as opposed to the Glazers staying and keeping the status quo.
Fingers crossed it works out for the best. God knows we're due a turn of luck!
I doubt it, Raine will have looked at the financials for any serious potential bidder. If he didn't have the money or access to it he wouldn't have been let into the race.
I’d be far more impressed had they not bought them in the first place. 2nd after 8 games isn’t proof they’ve learnt much in all honesty.
I hope they prove you correct in your blind optimism.
As a big Neville detractor I’m not going to herald him on this one but the big question for me he poses is. . .
How does a minority shareholder stop cultural decline across a whole organisation if the people who have overseen this decline still have a majority shareholding?
Anyone getting in bed with the Glazers would have been ran out of town last year. This fanbase is unbelievably divided but how anyone can champion this option is beyond me.
The turkeys are getting their Christmas.
He has to be there no other answer
I mean we know most of the family wanted to sell yet this guy boasting about how much money he has couldn't seal the deal?
It doesn't add up and we are very lucky to have avoided this.
It was Michael Knighton all over again
I totally forgot about the Snapdragon deal
We may never know the details of what truly happened given they're not likely to be made public.
Know what this bolded part is the key! How the feck can a club lumbered with debt to historical measures be lumbered with even more debt!
It’s so pathetic you just have to laugh.
Owners who couldn’t initially afford
to buy the club in the first place, selling a quarter of it off to a guy using more debt to purchase that.
When will this fanbase learn…!?
And when will the PL step in and stop this kind of nonsense?
It's certainly been damaging to the fan base. Making open offers and talking about the investments he would make, how everything would be sweetness and roses to try and get the fans on board is all well and good, providing you have the means and wherewithal to actually get the deal done. In failing, he has caused a massive schism because so many people (myself included) were sold on the promised land he offered, that it being taken off the table is gutting. The reality is it might never really have been there if he wasn't able to meet the greed of the owners & we would all be better off had he kept things quieter.
It's like promising your kids the latest xbox for christmas, when in reality you can't afford it. When they end up with a gameboy they are going to be salty as all hell, where if you told them nothing...
Wise up sunshine.
Jim Ratcliffe is to Utd as Farage was to Brexit.
If you’re not able to see that yet, fair enough, but don’t become unpleasant to those that are able to see it.
After all, just like Brexit, we’re the ones that will have to humour you once you do realise it - far too late to do anything about it.
The Glaziers know there is at least a fair chance of some sort of deal coming down the line, be it a shift in the TV revenue models, or a super league, or just evolution of modern football comps, but the chances are at least decent that something big happens, especially now Saudi are throwing crazy money around as well.
Whenever I think of people like Glaziers, I think of the following mantra "they don't want *some* of the money, they want *all* of the money. They probably feel a 100% deal right now prevents them from getting an even larger slice later on. Should the TV deals go astronomical combined with some league structual reorganisation, suddenly 8-10b on United isn't so fanciful as it currently seems, in which case they can get their 1.5b now, and perhaps get another 6 down the line, meaning they've made 1.5-2b on Jassims offer whilst being no worse off financially in the meantime.
I remember once my own club West Ham were valued something like 80-100m. Nowdays Sullivan could probably get 750m comfortably, maybe closer to 1b. Thats happened in the last 12 years and the majority of that is just due to far larger revenue streams being possible these days.
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You do know that the Glazers also have class A shares? If the Glazers are selling their shares independently, why would they even need the Board to ratify them. Plus the moment they sell their B class shares, it gets converted to A class. For them to have any worth, first they would need to pass a resolution to change that.
Whether Jassim was a bluffer or not is being used as misdirection, he’s gone now so it doesn’t matter.
Focus needs to be on some geezer taking out a further loan to give money to the Glazers, not the club, for a 17% overall stake. This is not the takeover we require.
No point in me processing it for you. You'll have to do that yourself.
Close Thread./
That would basically imply that Ineos has no deal in place to acquire all their shares for a set price, in which case that will be dumbest piece of business ever. I doubt Ineos are that and thus the Glazers will have already decided to sell up for far less than those fanciful numbers you have plucked out of thin air.
It's not what we want, no. It's all that is realistically on the table though. We need to understand more details, but debt in of itself being involved isn't automatically bad. The Qatar deal would have been leveraged too. The issue is how they intend to structure it, is it in anyway financed by United etc. Those facts aren't known yet, but hopefully they are soon. The worst case assumptions being made by some though, that it is entirely on top of what we already have, are unlikely - it would be incredibly stupid and what ever else we might thing of Ratcliffe, he isn't that.
Rat/Ineos racking up a billion in debt to buy a quarter stake in a club that is already in £700m of debt.
Purely to line Glazer pockets.
Everything will be bargain basement from here on out. Bear minimum investment required in the stadium, probably limited to a new roof and improving the corporate experience. Nothing for the womens teams or training facilities or surrounding areas.
Another decade servicing an enormous debt that should never have been allowed to exist in the first place.
Purely to line Glazer pockets.
Everything will be bargain basement from here on out. Bear minimum investment required in the stadium, probably limited to a new roof and improving the corporate experience. Nothing for the womens teams or training facilities or surrounding areas.
Another decade servicing an enormous debt that should never have been allowed to exist in the first place.
Wonder what they might be voting on this week?
Given they haven't voted on previous sales of their holdings due to them converting, why might they do so now?
Ratcliffe could have just bought the shares via the market if all he was going to end up with were non voting shares. And saved a fortune to boot. I know it's difficult for many to accept anything not in clickbait tweet format but come on, this stuff is pretty self explanatory.
I want to see the details but the key questions will be how much debt will the club be loaded with at the end and how much dividend and interest will it have to pay to Glazers and various other parasites. I feel the obvious answer to both will be 'a lot'.
Given leveraged buyouts are now banned, I'm hoping the Premier league will block this takeover.
Given leveraged buyouts are now banned, I'm hoping the Premier league will block this takeover.
The Qatar bid claimed they would pay off the historical debt and not add any new debt om the club, while they finance new infra improvements. Whether you believe that or not is completely up to you. So far, we have heard nothing of that sort from Ineos so people are not paranoid to assume it is because he has no intention to remove the old debt.
Did Nigel leverage his own fortune in pursuit of his self interests? Didn't think so
They aren't banned, the % debt allowed is lower. Also a leveraged buyout is debt being incurred by the club not the individual or group, there are no rules against buying a part or whole of the club by incurring debt on your own account.
Fully leveraged buyouts are but if as expected, the debt is against Ineos then it wouldn't be a leveraged buy out.
Unfortunately this isn't a leveraged buyout. We will back in 10 years hoping someone with money will buy us again and invest on our infrastructure.
I believed Qatar, yes. Irrelevant now though. I think the wording INEOS came out with was no new debt on the club, but that was way back when they were talking about a full purchase. I would imagine (hope) it is the same here, not least because they are stumping up less in total at this point. So yes the existing debt isn't going (booo) but no new debt is coming to us if they remain true to what they said initially.
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