Who will guarantee that though? Qatar won't. They can't even pass the first hurdle of agreeing a price with the Glazers. Amateurs.
Club Sale | It’s done!
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I am very much in the Glazers out Camp and Sir Jimmy has enabled them to have their cake and eat it, however as much as I wanted Qatar to win, their was no guarantees that they would have turned United into a powerhouse again, PSG is not a perfect example of how to run a football club but the fans needs answers and they need them quickly ?
Sir Jim’s wealth varies from £12 billion to £29 billion on the internet but I’d tend to believe the times that has his wealth listed at £29 billion and he’s listed as the UK’s second richest man, even though he no longer lives in the country because he’s a tax exile. He has very obvious links to Saudi Arabia as well and that may be something which rears its head in the next few years.
His wealth is mostly asset based by owning 60% of INEOS, so yes he can use a blue chip company to improve the finances of the club but he will not be able to just go down to his locals Barclays and do a bank transfer for the remaining £4.5 billion in 3 years, that’s why it’s a staggered put and call deal, which will have airtight clauses from his end. What the fans now need to see are the following ;
1. How and when will his role be introduced to the club and what decision will he have right now, not 3 or 6 years, how will he be able to affect the running of the club now, yes he will have a board position that’s obvious due to his investment but will he be a silent partner, the Glazers lackey ?
2. There were rumours that INEOS plan was to pay a lump sum of £200m to reduce the debt from £650m to a more manageable £450m where interest payments to service the debt would be reduced and the club would be able to be debt free 5 years by using its own profit to pay off the debt however this was when he was looking to buy 51% and have a majority control?
3. When the current delayed financial accounts are released within the next two weeks, a question of investment by the Glazers of £30m per year for the next three years must be answered. under the new FSP/FFP rules I very much doubt the club could effectively spend any more than £75m on transfers per summer in the next two years without selling their young homegrown players for considerably more than they sold Henderson and Elanga this summer.
This payment can not be made by INEOS as they are minority share holders so we need to see the Glazers actually invest £90m of their own money over the next three years and if Sir Jimmy wants to try and win over the fans, which I highly doubt, this must be made clear that this will happen.
4. There needs to be a definite answer on stadium, training ground and investment into the woman’s and youth teams. We want numbers and timelines for when these improvements happen?
If INEOS are arranging a loan for a new stadium on top of the existing debt, how does this investment potentially affect Sir Jim’s future buyout? Will this investment be deducted from his agreed price of future shares or more likely will he keep this as a separate loan through INEOS, potentially as high as £2 billion, ring fence it and then when he takes over expect the club to repay INEOS at specific monetary rate every year with a very low interest rate.
This is self financing, especially if there is a success on the pitch, an extra 15,000 seats that a new stadium will bring will increase revenue to service the payment structure and this has no effect on FFP/FSP but a plan is required for expansion or does he do absolutely nothing for 3 years until he gains control in 2027 and then look for a cheap £300m makeover maybe increasing Old Trafford to 80,000 and again simply using United’s own money or will he saddle them with even more debt recently paid off so the club still has £500-600m millstone around their neck? The fans needs answer.
5. The remaining and other debt, some of this is part of the credit card facility, approx £150m for transfers used in the summer and should be serviced by the huge turnover of the club, apparently £650m predicted this season but the £300m of amortised debts for players like Martinez, Antony, Casemiro will seriously hamper the club going forward in the same way it has Barcelona.
Under the new FSP rules from Uefa, a club can only spend 80% of its revenue next summer and 70% in 2025, when you have a fixed debt of £80m or more for transfer fees owed to European clubs your working with one hand tied behind your back( Yes SJ/92 agreed to even going to pay all of this off in one hit the moment they took the club private ) Had we not had lecherous owners who took dividends and saddled the club with debt, we would be in a similar position to Bayern or Real right now, at least financially!
6. The most important question for the fans who want to see a strong united wining again on the pitch.
What will INEOS do for the team right now, their track record in football is awful forget Nice this season, it’s awful so after you take your place on the Goblins board, what are you going to do this winter window to help ETH stop the rot?
A good start would be to appoint Paul Mitchell as he’s clearly superior to John Murtough but will the Glazers even allow you to do that ?
The fans need to see a short term, mid term and long term plan all corresponding to INEOS going from 25% minority owner, 51% Chairmen and majority to final 100% where Manchester United are Delisted from NYSE , debt free and with a new shiny stadium that is the envy of the world?
So for all those Ratcliffe Fans, I hope he doesn’t leave you disappointed, for me it’s simple I’m a united fan and would always have supported the club who ever had bought it, however if this is Michael Knighton reincarnated in 2023, I may like many other United fans cringe at Ratcliffe being unveiled at Old Trafford trying to juggle two balls at one time , one called Joel and one called Avram!
What’s that old saying ; “Beware Wolves in sheep’s clothing!”
As has been pointed out, it might not all be in money terms. Also his kids might not be too chuffed if he threw all his money into Manchester United.
I can determine you’re very emotional and it affects your decision making ability.
He wasn’t saying this as a liverpool guy he was making an observation about the current state of United. Modern United has no personality, it’s a corporate shell of its former self because of the owners.
No amount of crying or name calling will change that.
So Jim the excellent business man is just going to gift the club the billions needed and happily pay it all off? Even if he puts the lot on INEOS the bottom line will come back to us in some form or another even if they do.
Just to point out any Ratcliffe purchase of Glazer shares would go to the Glazers
You never renovate the house if you want to sell it. The buyers never appreciate it as they will most likely renovate to what they want do in their vision -- on their own money.
Less Glazer control is obviously a good thing, but still makes me think there's no end in sight.
In 10 years time we'll be talking about how Jim died with 49 percent....
In 10 years time we'll be talking about how Jim died with 49 percent....
Oh and don't forget in that time all other teams have said they won't improve 1% to wait for us.
I highly doubt it. Boehly is another cut from the same cloth. Most Chelsea fans have been conditioned to think he's going to be the same as Abramovich.
The more I look at it, the more I think football is in a massive bubble that has to pop. It's the same actors from the world of neoliberal finance frothing things up then leaving comparatively unscathed when shit hits the fan, and us common folk left to foot the bill. We'll still find a way to fight one another though.
I think many here think Ratcliffe the businessman will be altruistic and offer some charitable investment into the club. The investment will appear like some magical capital injection at some magical low costs
PL TV deal is about to go up even more.
UEFA are reforming the CL to mirror more or less, the model the Super League was going to adopt.
All of this plus further commercial growth and possibility of on field success means the value of the club will go up further in the next 2-5 years. Which plays into the Glazers hands with the minority deal Ratcliffe/INEOS are brokering.
Wouldn't happen, sure he's a lifelong United fan. He even wore a United shirt that time.
I am a season ticket holder with my 9 year old. I was on a waiting list for years. I only managed to get our seats because someone gave theirs up during Covid. I know for a fact that if I gave my seats up, somebody else would snap them up in a heartbeat. So the seats would be filled and my minor protest against the Glazers would be for nothing. I would say that a large majority of fans just want to watch their team win a game of football, sing songs, give their kids and hug and go home happy. Other sections want the same, but also through this prism of protest. But there is a certain level of contradiction at play here, because you've bought a season ticket off the Glazers, and you are drinking Glazer beer and eating Glazer pies. But you can justify it by waving a bedsheet and singing anti Glazer songs. And everyone joins in with the anti-Glazer songs. Even the tourists from the outer-reaches of the globe, who will snap up your seat and pay triple the amount that you pay. So the Glazers win again.
These protests have been going on for 17 years and the Glazers have not made one comment or even reacted to these protests. They live in Florida, and they don't have to follow any British media. And they probably don't.
They will eventually sell up, when the price is right for them, but that price will only go up if the club is back at the top table, and they can't afford to do that by themselves, so they need someone to come in and do it for them. That someone is Ineos.
Am I gutted that the Glazers are still here? Absolutely.
Am I hopeful that Ineos, with their investment and plans to take over the football side of the club could actually bring back the glory days? Yes I am.
How are you, "common folk", footing the bill?
On the bolded part,Qatari doesn't guarantee success then What does Jim guarantee ?
There are no guarantees in life but you decide whats has the best probability of being the right move and successful. Success with Glazers around is wishing thinking.
To all your questions, their are no answers here because it's all matters of personal preference between Jim and Glazers.
. You see that's what people are against. Nothing has been brought to the fans openly.Glazers and Jim might say in 2025, 'we didn't promise to clear the debts'. And it's true they haven't committed to it.
Whereas Qatari can be put to ask about things if they bought the club. They had promised debt clearance. If it didn't happen, people would have genuine reason to ask about why debt was not cleared as promised.
A watershed moment for the club has gone to the dogs really.
Since when has a question been wishful thinking? I am trying to clarify to that poster that if the Glazers are selling their shares the club won't see a penny of it or get clarity on whether he knows something about the deal than what is in the public domain.
If Sir Jim was even buying 51% of the club I’d be happy but this is a nothing deal for the fans. Not even ETH being giving £200m in January to go strengthen would appease fans with this outcome ?
Last saving-face attempt?
I meant on his part. We are in agreement. Man united see none of this money. The Glazers are selling their shares.
He’ll go for inter Milan. That’s my bet
I'm surprised you're asking. Same way bailouts work for companies "too big or important to fail".
I’m agreeing with you but had Qatar bought the club we might have had a better chance but could anyone really save us from the Greedy Goblins who have systematically broken this club over the last decade, I very much doubt it, now they are still here, we the fans will suffer even more, this only gets worse before it gets better, but Jimmy must address the fans now, because if in 3 years he’s lied to us, he will also be another stay away owner!On the bolded part,Qatari doesn't guarantee success then What does Jim guarantee ?
There are no guarantees in life but you decide whats has the best probability of being the right move and successful. Success with Glazers around is wishing thinking.
To all your questions, their are no answers here because it's all matters of personal preference between Jim and Glazers.
Glazers and Jim might say in 2025, 'we didn't promise to clear the debts'. And it's true they haven't committed to it.
Whereas Qatari can be put to ask about things if they bought the club. They had promised debt clearance. If it didn't happen, people would have genuine reason to ask about why debt was not cleared as promised.
A watershed moment for the club has gone to the dogs really.
From a business POV it made no sense refusing Jassims bid so there are other parameters at play
You just have to look no further than the French league, the club they acquired there, what their supporters and even playing staff had to say about the owners.On the bolded part,Qatari doesn't guarantee success then What does Jim guarantee ?
There are no guarantees in life but you decide whats has the best probability of being the right move and successful. Success with Glazers around is wishing thinking.
To all your questions, their are no answers here because it's all matters of personal preference between Jim and Glazers.
Glazers and Jim might say in 2025, 'we didn't promise to clear the debts'. And it's true they haven't committed to it.
Whereas Qatari can be put to ask about things if they bought the club. They had promised debt clearance. If it didn't happen, people would have genuine reason to ask about why debt was not cleared as promised.
A watershed moment for the club has gone to the dogs really.
I too think I'd be the perfect owner. And I too have not offered enough to buy the club.
Spurs ownership will present similar issues to The Glazers in actually doing a deal for full control, they will probably only want minority investment too!
this is the bit I can't understand yet. Get the 7bn now in their hand to invest or do whatever surely has to outweigh the possibility of getting a bit more over 2 3 5 10 years from Ineos.
No such thing as enough money. Glazers don't want to sell
Why didn't Sheikh Jassim try to be more flexible with his offer. If buying 100 per cent was possible, why not 40 per cent?
Greed
Like not wanting to sell in the first place
I don't get this point that's being parroted online. Understandable if you don't want Qatar as owners but to say they are amateurs or didn't want the club enough because they couldn't agree a price is nonsense.
I could want a mid range Volvo and have 100k in the bank, but I would be a fool for paying that much for the Volvo. It's not worth that much and it would be silly business. Qatar or anyone would be a fool for agreeing to whatever inflated price the Glazers demand. It needs to be realistic.
People buy run down houses and spend a fortune on them to try and make a profit all the time.
He’s also looking a little deflated with the Middle East genuinely being shocked this has happened, the Saudis will be laughing at him because he’s been outmanoeuvred by a wily old businessman, this will not look good for him or Qatar right now.
None of this really makes any sense, Image getting a $1B each at this age and still turning it down, they have got enough wealth for future generations to live comfortably so there has got to be more to it than money now.
As far as I’m aware of INEOS isn’t buying the 25% with their own money, they’re just going to pay the interest to Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan, or to whoever is funding the loan. That’s a strong indicator about Ratcliffe’s future plans of this takeover.
A consortium with private bankers, investment firms and hedge founds is probably what we’re looking at if Ratcliffe succeed in buying 100% of the Glazers stocks, with INEOS hopefully paying the interest. So the question is how long will they do that without expecting any dividends in return? The long term goal is obviously to increase value of the club but with current ridiculous valuation it can take a very long time, probably a full cycle of economical boom in the next 5-7 years.
Any further investment in the club’s infrastructure, a new or upgraded stadium/Carrington and funds to invest in the squad comes with more debts and interest payments if none of the owners are willing to invest with their own private money. That’s highly unlikely because if Ratcliffe need INEOS to get a loan for the first 25%. That gives us an indication of his personal liquidity.
Whatever scenario we paint in front of us it’s looking bleak and as it stands I can’t see us getting funds enough. even if INEOS pays the interest for the stocks, to compete with the very best probably in the next decade or so.
A consortium with private bankers, investment firms and hedge founds is probably what we’re looking at if Ratcliffe succeed in buying 100% of the Glazers stocks, with INEOS hopefully paying the interest. So the question is how long will they do that without expecting any dividends in return? The long term goal is obviously to increase value of the club but with current ridiculous valuation it can take a very long time, probably a full cycle of economical boom in the next 5-7 years.
Any further investment in the club’s infrastructure, a new or upgraded stadium/Carrington and funds to invest in the squad comes with more debts and interest payments if none of the owners are willing to invest with their own private money. That’s highly unlikely because if Ratcliffe need INEOS to get a loan for the first 25%. That gives us an indication of his personal liquidity.
Whatever scenario we paint in front of us it’s looking bleak and as it stands I can’t see us getting funds enough. even if INEOS pays the interest for the stocks, to compete with the very best probably in the next decade or so.
It was overvalued in the first place, I think the thought of having full ownership was the only thing keeping this deal alive.
That was already suggested by the media 2 days ago
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