Ian Reus
Ended 14 years of Grand National sweepstakes
Sheikh up the dragon.If you are against INOS taking over, you should want Jim to make a high bid. Its the only way to wake up the Sheikh dragon.
Sheikh up the dragon.If you are against INOS taking over, you should want Jim to make a high bid. Its the only way to wake up the Sheikh dragon.
I think it's guesswork. The reporters have already gotten so much wrong it's hard to project timelines based on what they publish. David Hellier's sources described the pace of the proceedings as "glacial," so that is not too promising from our point of view. Things could change in that respect if Ratcliffe's new structure is a true solution to the Class A shareholder problem, AND if this offer is approaching the valuation and term(s) that would be acceptable to the Glazers. In such a scenario, I think the Sheikh will have to counter reasonably soon. The problem is we really have no clue whether this new structure is a true solution for the Class A holders, or if it's just Ratcliffe (unsuccessfully) trying to make chicken shite into chicken salad. If it's the latter, this will not break the apparent stalemate in these negotiations. If we had an even an inkling of what Ratcliffe is proposing to make the bid viable to the Class A holders, it would be a lot easier to guess if it's a real solution or not, but the article lacked that information.Do you think the next 10-14 days could be quite significant in terms of progress in offers being made and is this essentially another round of bidding (assuming Jassim comes back in?).
Jim is wasting time and energy, Qatar will outbid him no matter how he restructures his bid.
I am not sure why he thinks he can outbid them.
Nah, Glazers have a price they'd cash out on. Every seller does. And I'd be shocked if Jassim didn't just up his bid every time Ratcliff looked remotely close.Not if the Glazers want a deal that will get them loads of money and then allow them to linger on. Jim may agree to that. Qatar wanted full sale.
What are people basing that on? We haven’t seen that intention from Qatar yet in this bidding process with all of their bids valuing the club lower than what INEOS has.Disagree, I reckon this is going to be quite a long process. Ratcliffe is finally “restructuring his bid”. When he’s finished with that and the offer is in, Qatar will edge their bid just ahead. Ratcliffe will look behind the sofa and “restructure his bid” again and Qatar will edge ahead with their next bid. Rinse and repeat.
We’re basically slowly edging towards Ratcliffe’s limit. That could be in a few weeks time but it could be this time next year.
That’s because SJ has made it clear he wants to buy 100%. INEOS only wanted a majority share so they could bid more for the Glazer’s shares only, seemingly at a higher value to the SJ bid, but with no intention of buying the remaining shares. On paper, it looks like INEOS are valuing the club higher than SJ - but that’s not the case as they don’t want to offer the same value to all shareholders. How they restructure their bid to appease the Class A shareholders is a complete mystery, unless they’ve found a few more billions to buy 100%.What are people basing that on? We haven’t seen that intention from Qatar yet in this bidding process with all of their bids valuing the club lower than what INEOS has.
Sheikh up the dragon.
Disagree, I reckon this is going to be quite a long process. Ratcliffe is finally “restructuring his bid”. When he’s finished with that and the offer is in, Qatar will edge their bid just ahead. Ratcliffe will look behind the sofa and “restructure his bid” again and Qatar will edge ahead with their next bid. Rinse and repeat.
We’re basically slowly edging towards Ratcliffe’s limit. That could be in a few weeks time but it could be this time next year.
Meanwhile every actual reliable journalist to do with United - who isn't called Tom the Journalist - has said Ratcliffe wants full control of the club, he doesn't want the Glazers making any decisions.I think if SJ/92 Foundation come in at £6bn for the 69% of Glazers shares, this finally gets done, however I think they will only offer £5.5 billion.
INEOS are in with a chance but their bid will be far more complexed and more difficult for the shareholders to get their money. If your the Glazers you take some now and hope the club has a huge upward trajectory to get much more in 2-3 years, if your a minority class A shareholder, your regretting the day you let RatCliffe do a dodgy contract and finally read the small print which says $25 per share in 2027 not $38 which SJ offered.
The latest I’m hearing that INEOS if acceptable would pay 3/4 of the debt initially then Pay the final quarter of the debt in 2 years, which means INEOS would not have to delist the club from the NYSE until 2026 but they would look to pay all the debt by 2025. The one guy who I like to listen to who actually understand the stock market is Tom the Journalist who appears on Red Devil Studio and guess what he just said what I’ve been saying for 9 months; “The Glazers want £6 billion for their 69% shares and they’ve been offered £5.1-5.3 billion from SJ for all 113 million shares and INEOS have offered £2.6-2,7bn for 58% of the Glazers 113 million shares which is 62 million shares which are owned by All of the Glazers class b shares minus Joel and Avram) so anyone thinking the Glazers would not have a say under INEOS is living in dream land.
Joel and Avram would still have 51 million class B shares under the INEOS bid out of 163 million shares, INEOS bid is so complexed it’s just causing a mass confusion with all six siblings and it’s delaying a full sale, Ratcliffe could be hated by united fans before he’s even done the deal, imagine saying that Joel Glazer will continue to looking after football transfers.
If INEOS was to be successful, and they appeased the minority shareholders and Joel and Avram stay, then the club would look like this;
Jimmy Brexit/INEOS - 38% controlling
Joel & Avram Glazer - 31% but still class B
Minority Shares - 31% All class A shares
Let that sink in for a minute, he will still need the Glazers to make major decisions with the board it’s a mess waiting to happen !
If INEOS are in the lead they would have to do the following;
1. Make a $34-36 offer for 50 million A class shares so they could delist from NYSE. They can’t afford this right now even with their blue chip covenant.
Meanwhile every actual reliable journalist to do with United - who isn't called Tom the Journalist - has said Ratcliffe wants full control of the club, he doesn't want the Glazers making any decisions.
At this point I don't care who it is because I want the Glazers out and apparently the only two bids are from people who I don't want to run the club, but people who only want SJ tend to talk some absolute bullocks about the Ratcliffe bid fair play.
There is absolutely no way in hell he will pay all that money yet continue to have Joel Glazer in charge of transfers, come on ffs that's common sense, you're just bringing up SJ bid propaganda points of how if Ratcliffe wasn't around the Glazers would have already sold to SJ and Ratcliffe is causing a mess. The reason the deal isn't done is because the greedy parasites don't feel like either offer matches their valuation, that's why, again as reported by all reliable journalists.
Quite interesting to see fatigue set it regarding Qatar. Their supporters were claiming they were somehow necessary, now they realise they are no silver bullet and are reconciling themselves to Ineos being in the game.
This would be the nightmare everybody dreads.I think if SJ/92 Foundation come in at £6bn for the 69% of Glazers shares, this finally gets done, however I think they will only offer £5.5 billion.
INEOS are in with a chance but their bid will be far more complexed and more difficult for the shareholders to get their money. If your the Glazers you take some now and hope the club has a huge upward trajectory to get much more in 2-3 years, if your a minority class A shareholder, your regretting the day you let RatCliffe do a dodgy contract and finally read the small print which says $25 per share in 2027 not $38 which SJ offered.
The latest I’m hearing that INEOS if acceptable would pay 3/4 of the debt initially then Pay the final quarter of the debt in 2 years, which means INEOS would not have to delist the club from the NYSE until 2026 but they would look to pay all the debt by 2025. The one guy who I like to listen to who actually understand the stock market is Tom the Journalist who appears on Red Devil Studio and guess what he just said what I’ve been saying for 9 months; “The Glazers want £6 billion for their 69% shares and they’ve been offered £5.1-5.3 billion from SJ for all 113 million shares and INEOS have offered £2.6-2,7bn for 58% of the Glazers 113 million shares which is 62 million shares which are owned by All of the Glazers class b shares minus Joel and Avram) so anyone thinking the Glazers would not have a say under INEOS is living in dream land.
Joel and Avram would still have 51 million class B shares under the INEOS bid out of 163 million shares, INEOS bid is so complexed it’s just causing a mass confusion with all six siblings and it’s delaying a full sale, Ratcliffe could be hated by united fans before he’s even done the deal, imagine saying that Joel Glazer will continue to looking after football transfers.
If INEOS was to be successful, and they appeased the minority shareholders and Joel and Avram stay, then the club would look like this;
Jimmy Brexit/INEOS - 38% controlling
Joel & Avram Glazer - 31% but still class B
Minority Shares - 31% All class A shares
Let that sink in for a minute, he will still need the Glazers to make major decisions with the board it’s a mess waiting to happen !
as usual you post presumptions about posters you don‘t even know and come across as extremely condescending
any idea of them cvnts retaining even the smallest of connections possible to the club is simply abhorrent to me and completely unacceptable
This would be the nightmare everybody dreads.
Most fans still don’t realise INEOS proposition has always been just to take control by doing a deal with the Devil itself.This would be the nightmare everybody dreads.
I wonder if you’ll say the same when 92 purchase spurs or Liverpool.
Just by that very precise statement, why do people still think INEOS would buy 51%, Joel and Avram have 18% and Minority 31% for an initial fee of £2.7 billion?
Appreciate your posts and input.
Can you please help me understand the maths / logic behind the $34-36 share price you have quoted here? Is it simply based on the final amount the club is sold for? The ‘enterprise value’?
Not too familiar with these sorts of things.
But so many fans still argue now saying the bid of £5.1-5.2 billion. Is for 100% of the club when this is simply not true!No idea. Never thought it was at all likely. Qatar are gonna but 100% of the club.
I think if SJ/92 Foundation come in at £6bn for the 69% of Glazers shares, this finally gets done, however I think they will only offer £5.5 billion.
INEOS are in with a chance but their bid will be far more complexed and more difficult for the shareholders to get their money. If your the Glazers you take some now and hope the club has a huge upward trajectory to get much more in 2-3 years, if your a minority class A shareholder, your regretting the day you let RatCliffe do a dodgy contract and finally read the small print which says $25 per share in 2027 not $38 which SJ offered.
The latest I’m hearing that INEOS if acceptable would pay 3/4 of the debt initially then Pay the final quarter of the debt in 2 years, which means INEOS would not have to delist the club from the NYSE until 2026 but they would look to pay all the debt by 2025. The one guy who I like to listen to who actually understand the stock market is Tom the Journalist who appears on Red Devil Studio and guess what he just said what I’ve been saying for 9 months; “The Glazers want £6 billion for their 69% shares and they’ve been offered £5.1-5.3 billion from SJ for all 113 million shares and INEOS have offered £2.6-2,7bn for 58% of the Glazers 113 million shares which is 62 million shares which are owned by All of the Glazers class b shares minus Joel and Avram) so anyone thinking the Glazers would not have a say under INEOS is living in dream land.
Joel and Avram would still have 51 million class B shares under the INEOS bid out of 163 million shares, INEOS bid is so complexed it’s just causing a mass confusion with all six siblings and it’s delaying a full sale, Ratcliffe could be hated by united fans before he’s even done the deal, imagine saying that Joel Glazer will continue to looking after football transfers.
If INEOS was to be successful, and they appeased the minority shareholders and Joel and Avram stay, then the club would look like this;
Jimmy Brexit/INEOS - 38% controlling
Joel & Avram Glazer - 31% but still class B
Minority Shares - 31% All class A shares
Let that sink in for a minute, he will still need the Glazers to make major decisions with the board it’s a mess waiting to happen !
INEOS do think they are in with a genuine shout because they are being encouraged by Joel and Avram who are telling them ;“just a little bit higher, do a staggered deal with the minority share holders, do that and let both of us still stay on the board and have voting rights which will be aligned to yours, you know we speak the same language, agree to this and I’m sure We can push it through with our other siblings!”Some good points here.
Quite interesting to see fatigue set it regarding Qatar. Their supporters were claiming they were somehow necessary, now they realise they are no silver bullet and are reconciling themselves to Ineos being in the game.
Can't see Ineos wanting the Glazer numpties about, making them unpopular and insisting we make Martial captain and sign Messi because.
Ineos must genuinely think they are in with a decent shout, but, all the same, nobody can financially compete with a state bid.
It'll be Qatar.
INEOS do think they are in with a genuine shout because they are being encouraged by Joel and Avram who are telling them ;“just a little bit higher, do a staggered deal with the minority share holders, do that and let both of us still stay on the board and have voting rights which will be aligned to yours, you know we speak the same language, agree to this and I’m sure We can push it through with our other siblings!”
That’s very much the way the INEOS bid is playing out right now, they can only win if Joel and Avram stay ?
This is what annoys me about that poster (and he definitely gets away with it because if I suspect he was honest about the fact he is a rival fan, he'd be gone by now).as usual you post presumptions about posters you don‘t even know and come across as extremely condescending , I haven’t realised they’re no silver bullet and frankly can’t wait until we become debt free with world class facilities as befitting a club of our size.
Would have preferred Jim if he promised to buy out the Glazers completely but any idea of them cvnts retaining even the smallest of connections possible to the club is simply abhorrent to me and completely unacceptable
With this, what is it about 2025/26 that has Joel/Avram trying to hang on ? Do they expect the super league or something that is being worked on in backround to make a massive difference to the clubs value ? I dont get the advantage to them getting an extra 2 years. They havent been able to run the club properly and its losing value cause of their incompetence, what exactly are they seeing over the next 2 years ?
On the flipside, other then getting the deal done why would Sir Jim pay so much for the club and allow these morons to retain a significant level of control ? (especially as they are f**king idiots). I mean two more years of Glazeromics could destroy us. Jim is hardly gonna pump any money into the club if they will benefit from it.
This is indeed complicated, but theres a few funny things about it that dont add up.
This post deserves some praiseSheikh up the dragon.
The $34-36 enterprise value is what most of the inside traders have suggested it would take the Class A shareholders to agree to sell their shares.
I’ll explain the proposed process;
1. SJ/92 Foundation finally agree a deal with the Glazers to sell their 69% controlling stake, for example purposes let’s say £5.8 billion.
2. The Glazers themselves inherited all the assets but also all the liabilities of the club, because SJ wishes and has made it very clear that he wishes to delist the club and buy 100% of the club, the Glazers would have to pay the £700m debt owed to all of the original lenders of who put up the money for the LBO including Bank of America. In calculating the offer for the Glazers, Nine Two Foundation would have offered an enterprise value per class B share plus a premium for them to relinquish control, give up the deeds for the property and lucrative future merchandising and broadcasting deals so they may have offered $38 per share, there are 113 million class B shares which is equal to $4.294 billion or £3.5 billion
Therefore the breakdown of the offer might look like this ;
Purchase of 113 million shares @ 31.20 per. Share = £3.5 billion
Agreed Payment of all existing leveraged debt to buy the Club = £700m
Agreed Premium to compensate loss of commercial future revenue = £800m
Agreed premium to compensate for future brand and property development £800m
Total Agreed reimbursement for control and takeover by 92 Foundation of all contracts, deeds, assets and liabilities belonging to Manchester United PLC = £5.8 billion
Please understand this is just a completely made up set of numbers to show an example of how a contract may be finalised.
3. After due diligence, the funds are transferred and Man United PLC now has new controlling owners but they still do not own 100% of the club and can not delist the club to take it private until they buy the remaining 31% shares.
4 . The new Owners have continued to register the club in the Cayman Islands and under their law they can make a fair enterprise value within 28 days to the existing share holders of let’s say $34 per share which will represent a windfall of double to those shareholders who bought for $17 per share. Some of these shareholders will be more than happy to sell but some may not and want a similar $38 per share listed in the initial Glazers class B shares and may get settled at $36 per share.
5. The final purchase of the remaining 50 million class A shares could take 3-4 months and it’s important to remember that Glazers also own approximately 6.9 million of those 50 million shares and may agree $38 per share which would give them another $262 million or £215 million. Some shareholders will jump the gun, others will be more patient to try and get the highest yield on their investment. If we assume an average share of $35 then this means that SJ/92 foundation would have to pay another $1.75 billion or £1.43 billion giving a final cost to buy 100% of the club and delist from the NYSE of £7.2-7.3 billion.
Agreed. I still favor Qatar but would be very happy to get Jim as well. F the Glazers.I'm tired, worn out. I just want this to be over.
I was heavily pro Qatar, but I'm at the point I'm just anti Glazers now. One of you Jass or Jim, just get them out please!
It'll soon be The Hunt For Custis' October.
Whilst i do agree with anyone but the Glazers, if Jim has to get outside financing, is it any better or different to what we have now? Especially if they want a say in how things are ran? Not too sure you know.Agreed. I still favor Qatar but would be very happy to get Jim as well. F the Glazers.
Sounds nasty.Sheikh up the dragon.
The Saudis are gone forever. They bought Newcastle, they aren’t coming back for Man United. That’s what those two pair of Stupid brothers, Joel and Avram, don’t understand. Qatar will simply pivot to another club, if they don’t buy Man UtdOk if INEOS take over it’s coming out now they would look to settle the debt in two structure payment. So assume the club is £800m in actual debt(ignore amortisation transfer debt)
INEOS on buying the club would maybe make £600m next year which alleviate a lot of the pressure with interest payments, but then he would want the club to try and pay off the additional £200m in the following years 2025 and 2026. The belief is that if United could consolidate top 4/5 to guarantee CL football and qualify for the world club cup in 2025 which is offering clubs an additional £150m.
INEOs might agree to redevelop old Trafford at maybe £700-800m and push the debt on INEOS but then have a joint financing deal with another hedge fund who would then have naming rights.
Simple by 2026/27 a man united with no debt actually being a regular in the top 4/5 and wining the odd cup would still create a yearly turnover of £700-800m and the club would start making profits which are reinvested back into the club, INEOS could clean it all up and then try and sell it to the Saudis in 2030 for £10 billion but it’s a huge risk having Joel and Avram still involved in the day to day running of the club?
Thanks for explainingOk if INEOS take over it’s coming out now they would look to settle the debt in two structure payment. So assume the club is £800m in actual debt(ignore amortisation transfer debt)
INEOS on buying the club would maybe make £600m next year which alleviate a lot of the pressure with interest payments, but then he would want the club to try and pay off the additional £200m in the following years 2025 and 2026. The belief is that if United could consolidate top 4/5 to guarantee CL football and qualify for the world club cup in 2025 which is offering clubs an additional £150m.
INEOs might agree to redevelop old Trafford at maybe £700-800m and push the debt on INEOS but then have a joint financing deal with another hedge fund who would then have naming rights.
Simple by 2026/27 a man united with no debt actually being a regular in the top 4/5 and wining the odd cup would still create a yearly turnover of £700-800m and the club would start making profits which are reinvested back into the club, INEOS could clean it all up and then try and sell it to the Saudis in 2030 for £10 billion but it’s a huge risk having Joel and Avram still involved in the day to day running of the club?